Lexus LS 400/LS 430

jbianco12

Two questions...
1. Does anyone know when the NAV system DVD gets updated and how much it costs?
2. The 17 inch tires seem to be a real issue. My LS is brand new so I won't have to deal with new tires for a while, but has anyone cracked the code on the best replacement tires? (Combination ride quality, quiet, longer life). I read a few messages on the issue and it seems there's no grand solution to the problem. Thanks!!

dsilver2

The NAV System for the 01 LS430 has just become available,
each dealer sets his own price,so you have to check with the dealers in your area for the best price.
The upgrade is by way of a new DVD.

drcomputer

Is it really available? I have been asking corporate forever. Their last response was it wouldn't be available until this summer. There are also mixed reports on the cost. I have read that the first one or two updates would be free, and others have said it can cost as much as $500. Guess I will call Glendale Lexus today. But I'm sure parts will just say "update? what update?"

drcomputer

Well, I just called the dealer and they said "Yes" it is available for special order...for only $650! I told them that was ridiculous! I have just written an e-mail to corporate and left a voicemail with the customer service manager at Glendale Lexus to see if this is really true. I can't believe Lexus is going to piss-off LS430 owners by insulting us with a two-year delay in shipping the DVD update and then saying it's $650. I'll post what their response is.

dealin

Is the update the same one that came with the 2002 LS430? Does the $650 include installation? Just for kicks I tried to get to the DVD disk. It is a bit of a pain to get to the drive but can be done but I couldn't figure out how to get the drive to eject the disk. Does anyone know how to get the DVD disk to eject? What if you put a movie in the player?

rennybosch

I have seen that warning when I had the cruise control engaged and it started to rain. It then displayed a message telling me that cruise control was not available (or something to that effect). I have not seen it without any additional explanation.

jbianco12

If you have the radar cruise control, the radar lense might be dirty so it doesn't operate properly. Mud prevents it from operating properly. In fact, the owners manual warns not to use radar cruise in bad weather. The lense is located in the front of the car, bottom (left) I think. Just clean it off with a wet paper towel and it should work OK. if that doesn't work, you'll need to bring it in to the dealer.

jbianco12

Thanks for the DVD update...
$650!!! Are they out of their minds? Keep us updated on what Glendale Lexus has to say. (Is that Glendale CA?) I have a 02 Lexus (from Thousand Oaks Lexus) so I'm going to be VERY bugged if I have to shell out more money for an updated DVD that should be complementary to new owners.

woppenhe

One of the folks who responded to me mentioned that they had the same issue due to an air conditioning filter needing to be replaced. Since the initial warning, when the key was turned to start the engine, I briefly got a ping and exactly that warning. The dealer was more than responsive and coopertive and solved the issue in 15 minutes by cleaning the cabin air filter located in the lower glove compartment of the LS 430. No further problems. Lexus Santa Monica is open on Saturdays for Service and the people there are to be commended for their quick resolution and courtesy. They couldn't have been nicer or more responsive. The filter was judged too new to be replaced, but we entered a 14000 mile life expentency in the maintainance panel to remind us to service it again then.

jsb16

Thanks for your thoughts on the custom luxury vs. UL model. Would any of the UL owners car to comment on the suspension upgrade in that vehicle? Any older LS 400 owners care to comment on the air suspension in those models and/or frequency of repair? Thanks.

wwest

My 92 has 80k miles and my brother's has over 100K and no problems at all with air suspension. I personally won't buy another LS without it, which is part of the reason I don't have a new LS..

Refuse to pay for a bunch of goo-gaws in the back seat that are useless to me as the primary driver.

Cruise control: I wouldn't be surprised if the cruise control refused to engage if you have recently "incurred", required, the use of VSC and/or TRAC.

drcomputer

I have a UL with air suspension and must say that I was more impressed with my 98 ES300's version of it. On the ES I could adjust the dampening by four different, and noticeable, levels. On the LS your only choices are normal and sport...and I really can't tell much of a difference between the two. Since I have never driven an LS without the air suspension, I don't know if it really makes a big difference. I know in the ES it did.

dsilver2

Called the local dealer in Cleveland Ohio.
The cost for the NAV update is $390 plus $40 instalation.The update mainly consist of updates
of major metropolitan areas and nothing else.
I told him I plan to save that $400 for better things.BTW there is no free upgrade after the 2000 model.

rennybosch

I called the US Headquarters in Torrance, CA, and they said the update MSRP is $499. Your dealer may differ.

Wait time depends on dealer location; they have been available from Japan since Mar 31.

pai7

Before I purchased my 01 LS430 I did an internet search .It was intresting to note that the air suspension was not offered in some countries(I think in Singapore).Lexus officials beleived that hot tropical climate could damage the the rubber components of the air suspension. I still have doubts about the long term reliability.I have to tell you that I have enjoyed my LS 430 with standard suspension with 17" Dunlop tires.I would like to know from this Board about their experiences of driving LS 430 with different suspension.One thing for sure ,replacing air suspension after warranty period is a $ 10k project.

drcomputer

Corporate did respond to my inquiry saying there were no more free updates, but that they would have to get back to me further about the outrageous price. $500 for nothing more than some new maps is a bit over priced. Microsoft sells their 2002 Streets and Maps DVD for a reasonable $50. I think as an apology for not keeping their "twice yearly" update commitment, Lexus should give all NAV owners this upgrade for free. Then after that the DVD should be a reasonable price (less than $100). Do others agree with me? I'd love to know.

jefftp

I don't have navigation in my LS. And, after reading this discussion, I never will.

Knowing that one would have to pay $400-500 a year to update the navigation disc, it is safe to say that a great may people who would otherwise want navigation will forego it when buying a new LS. Thus, in getting overly greedy, Lexus is hurting themselves by reducing the number of navigation packages they sell.

ljflx

Disagree. The nav system is fantastic and a great companion when you are in unfamiliar territories. When you know your way it's entertaining, particularly when you find there are bodies of water and the like where you never expected them to be. Just choose not to update each year. I have no intention of updating and I bet Lexus didn't expect many people to update each year. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule here or maybe in the Northeast there just aren't enough road changes to justify paying even $50 for an update.

From a business standpoint it makes no sense to give free updates. Do you get the new pentium or AMD chip or Microsoft's latest operating system just because you bought a computer bfore they were updated or changed? No - your stuck with what you have. Why should this business model be any different. In addition I'm sure that Lexus (or any auto mfr.) has licenses for the data and the prices they charge are likely tied to those license agreements. I'll bet dealer prices are different because the dealers probably are free to price as they want based on laws of supply and demand.

flint350

Well, I'm of the opinion that the nav update is the 2nd big srew-up from Lexus (the phone being the first). They did promise bi-annual updates and never delivered. They did say the 1st update would be free to current LS430 owners and now they say no. Then they price it like it is a hardware upgrade when it is nothing more than a database upgrade from Navtech. I can't see how they can charge so much for so little, licensing agreements notwithstanding.

The design of the system was poor if they so changed it in 2002 that none of the new features could be implemented by software. The only reason they charge that much is bcz they think they can get it. Not based on its value. I agree with jeffp, this little event would give me pause in the future. They have shown poor design and planning as well as a disregard for the owner base on this and the phone issue. Promises not kept are worse than those not made. I almost want to check the hood and see if there is a 3 pointed star up there somewhere.

mkwame

Can someone enlighten me with this question? Is the Toyota Type T-4 ATF good for the 1998- 2002 Lexus LX470 and Toyota Land Cruisers? The manual for the these trucks suggests Dextron III. My confusion stems from my old 1996 LS400 operator's manual which recommends the use of Dextron II or III but everyone on this forum including the dealer highly recommends Type T-4 for smooth shifting.

Thanks for your help on this in advance.

feverhart

Gee, I can't understand the complains about the $400 + prices being quoted for installation of the update of the 2001 430 LS. I just checked with the dealer that does my service work and his quote was $751.17 + installation and claimed that was a reduction from a price of over $1000. After a little discussion, the parts guy decided to check a little more and discovered that their latest price was only $499 + installation. My '98 LS 400 had 3 free updates.

I'll know where not to take my cars for service now.

I agree with flint, upgades are not needed each year. If there is enouugh resistance, the price shoud be considerably lower ($100 max) in another 3 years when I'll be ready. I hope Lexus is taking note.

drcomputer

Thanks for all of the responses. I do run my own business and know the laws of supply and demand. I also know that customers do not like to feel nickel and dimed to death. That's exactly how I feel with this upgrade. I live in Los Angeles and unfortunately the map database was about two years outdated when I bought the car. My office, my parents house, my best friends house and several other streets do not even appear in the system. All of these streets are at lease five years old and appear in the Thomas Guide and on on-line mapping services such as Yahoo.

I think it is funny how Lexus sent out $50 American Express gift certificates when they had to make a recall change to the Lexus Link system as a "thank you" for the inconvienence... yet they want to charge us $500 for an update to the maps that were outdated when the car was purchased.

I think somehow they can find it somewhere in their profit margins to give out these upgrades for free... or at least at a reasonable cost. It's not like they are selling the NAV system for $200, it's a $3000-$12,000 option depending on the car. Prior to the 2001 NAV system, the first three were free. I also find it interesting that dealers are charging "labor" costs to "install" the upgrade. My dealer, Glendale Lexus, wants $150 for the install ($500 for DVD + $150 labor = $650 total). When I asked why they were charging over two hours of labor to hit "eject" on the DVD reader and put in a new disk I got interesting excuses. When pressured, the said "well, I guess you could just install it yourself." This whole incident had soured my feelings towards Lexus. I love my car and honestly like the dealership, but I am gravely disappointed how they are dealing with this situation. For a company that prides itself on customer satisfaction and proactively dealing with problems, they have faltered on both points.

ljflx

What do the all the other guys do re update pricing - everyone from MB to BMW to Infiniti to even Toyota itself now that it is optional on lower priced cars (excluding the TLC) like the Camry and Avalon? Anyone know?

Flint350 - This may be our first disagreement but I do see your point. To be honest i never even inquired about nav updates when I took it. Was it verbal or in writing?

tdo123

I hate to interrupt the great NAV discussion, but I wanted to step back and discuss what I learned when I compared these 2 models.

As a 3 time Lexus owner, I wanted to make sure that I go the car that I wanted. I actually thought that I wanted the Ultra. That cooler seemed so neat. But then when I really thought about it, I hardly ever have people in my back seat, and how often am I going to turn around and offer a beverage from my stocked bar in back.

As for the suspension. The Ultra uses "bladders" to control the ride. I talked to the service guy and he smiled and said, they are lot's of trouble. Even the 2001's have occasionally popped a bladder when it is really cold or hot. This can be a big problem. I also have small kids, so the back seat could be a baby seat blessing, but also an wasted extra.

I couldn't find a custom on 2001, but I picked one up for 2002. I really put it through the curves every day and it does just fine without the bladders.

My advice go with the custom and bring along your own cooler. More room in the trunk for the clubs.

stevestein

During the buying process I was told by my salesman when I asked that the first two upgrades were free. I was surprised when this entire thread on costs popped up. I also got the impression that this was the case for earlier LS's. Maybe some of the sales staff were not informed or didn't pick up on a change in policy.

It's possible the change in the Nav system is in response to any screw-up with the 2001. Don't they use the same system across several models in the product line? I remember from earlier posts the LX has a different player unit that can play movies, but it doesn't make sense for each model to be different. The new system just may have been due in 2002, just like the new ES.

blehrlich

about updates...I just LOVE this car. The nav system is so superior to the MB system (Ispeak from experience) that even several years without updates won't matter. Anyone without the Euro option that wants a lot better handling (without ride sacrifice), I switched the oem 225/60 16 tires for 245/55 16 Michelins (slightly stiffer sidewall, wider profile). The car looks great with these as well.

flint350

On the nav, I - like stevestein - was told (not in writing that I can find) that the 1st 2 updates would be complimentary. We were all told that there would be 2 per year. And it was at least implied, that the car was so completely reworked for 2001 that it's technology was forward compatible, not limiting. So any changes to the nav in the 1st few years should be software upgradable. None of this has proven to be true. Not exactly in keeping with the "pursuit of perfection". And not very forward thinking.

As for the ultra/custom. Had the choice been available when I bought mine, I would have opted for the custom also. But I wanted the features that were only available in the ultra at the time (air susp, radar cruise). Customs didn't come along for quite a while and are still in limited supply. "Go with the custom" is only good advice if there is a custom to be had. Generally, there are none.

ljflx, we don't really disagree on this. It's just that the nav is a nice feature that I enjoy using and I feel a little betrayed by Lexus in the way they have handled this issue and the phone. In the overall scheme of things, they have pleased me so much, that I have come to expect much more from them than I have gotten on these two issues. But do I still love the car, you bet!

ljflx

Flint350 - We think very much alike. Lexus sets the quality and service bar so high that minor problems get amplified. Some of these things wouldn't even hit the radar scope in MB and BMW given their problems. I tend to feel like Blehrlich about the nav.

Blehrlich - So glad you now understand our posts from a year ago. On the tires is the interior sound or ride compromised at all? I may follow your lead on this in the summer.

blehrlich

The interior sound/ride is not compromised at all. The handling is dramatically improved, and the car doesn't look like it's on stilts anymore.

jbianco12

Great idea about calling the Torrance customer service hotline about the exessive price for a software update AND charging 2 hrs labor to hit the eject button on the DVD and insert a new one. Perhaps if we all made a call to Lexus HDQ in Torrance they might get a clue. If anyone has the 800 number, please post it and we can swamp them with complaints!!!
I am especially bugged by this because I just got my 02 LS in January...and now have to shell out another $500 - $1000 (depending on how much the dealer wants to dig into their customer's pockets) for a lousy update that should have been included in the price of the NAV system in the first place. Thoughts?

ljflx

Have you called Catena on the nav? Maybe we should doubleteam them.

dealin

I have a 2002 LS430 that I got in Jan. I was told that the 2002 has the updated Nav DVD. On the version screen of the DVD it states 2002. Does anyone know if what I was told is correct? If so us 2002 owners already have the update. As for the install charges if someone could just figure out how to get the disk to eject it would be a pretty easy self install. The DVD player is located on the right side of the truck under the panel and only takes 2 screw to pop it out far enough to get the disk tray to be accessible.

drcomputer

Well, after calling and e-mailing Lexus Customer Service, talking the the Customer Service Manager, Service Manager, and my sales person at Glendale Lexus, they all finally came to their senses. The Customer Service Manager, Andy Maganya, called me to say that they apologize for the incorrect information (about the free updates) and that as a courtesy to me they would be fully covering the cost of the upgrade and would have their mobile service person come to me and replace the DVD.

Now I have personally purchased three new cars from Glendale Lexus and have had three friends and relatives purchase their cars from them too. We all bring our cars into the dealership for service. I am sure this weighed heavily in their decision to "cover the costs".

The squeaky wheel does get the grease. I encourage everyone who has an LS430 with NAV to e-mail or call Lexus Corporate Customer Service (info on the Lexus.com site) and call their sales person and customer service person at the dealership. I think Lexus needs to know that they made a poor decision in charging for this upgrade and they have done a poor job in informing the dealers about the DVD upgrade policy. We can make a difference if we try.

rennybosch

the number for Lexus Headquarters in Torrance, CA.

wwest

messages can be erased, forgotten, or ignored.

Emails and Faxes can't, record of "transaction", TX/RX, at both ends.

customer_satisfaction_inquiries@lexus.com

stevestein

I'm willing to give it a try. Was I correct in that this is a departure from how this was handled in previous years? If so it could be an honest mistake on the part of the sales force..they just didn't get the word on this, and it didn't come up on anyones' radar until now when the first update is available. Let me know what you propose, email, phone call, visit or whatever. With your volume there I can't believe they would give you a hard time.

How did everyone find out about the upgrade? I don't get any correspondence from Lexus(except when my LL service had to be renewed), and without this BB I probably wouldn't even know about it.

Like blehrlich I still love the car, and this will in no way sour me on Lexus ..I just want to help them in their pursuit of excellence.

ljflx

Exactly same for me. You couldn't have said it any better. I'm going to call over there tommorrow and I'll let you know. I want to find out if there is anything to this rumor on an LS430 redesign anyway. Also they have a guy over there that details your car (on the side - not for Catena) but Ray let's him do it at the dealership or at the service area. I want to get both cars detailed anyway. I'll let you know who it is if you're interested.

Isn't it amazing how quickly the car cools down in this 95 degree heat.

stevestein

I stopped by the parts department. They said they don't have the updates yet, but they were to be provided at a charge. I explained that I was told they were free, and parts said to talk to the showroom first, and if I couldn't get them to pick it up, they would take care of me on the price.

I went to the other side of the highway and asked my salesman what the deal was. He not only remembered that he told me the first update was free (I probably misremembered 2), but said all the sales staff were still saying that. He was surprised when I told him what the parts department had said confirming the info here. Cutting to the chase, he said to let him know when I got the upgrade and they would take care of it. He was then going to talk to his boss to get the story straight for everyone.

Its great when everyone bends over backwards to help you. If you haven't talked to them yet, I would anticipate you will get the same satisfaction.

On a separate issue, I went to the Lexus site to see if I could find any info about Nav updates. While there I looked into LLink renewal. It seems they offer a discount if you pickup multiple years at once, instead of one year at a time. I just renewed a couple of weeks ago, and was surprised they never mentioned it at the time. I hit the "services" button this morning and talked to the LLink operator. They confirmed the discount, and adjusted my billing. They give you a prorated refund if you don't keep the car for the whole period (I have 2.5 yrs left on the lease but renewed for 3 yrs.) Anyone else interested in keeping LLink long term may want to look into this as well.

I am interested in the detailer. You can give me the info here or send it to my email, which is in my profile.

ljflx

Thanks. Very informative. I'll show them your Edmunds post if they give me a problem but I doubt they will. I never met anyone in any business who runs a better shop than Catena. I was a lot busier than I expected or wanted to be today so I never got a chance to call. I'll let you know the detailer either way as soon as I find out.

tdo123

Since you mentioned you renewed the LL, did you stay with the standard package or upgrade to the premium package? I don't see much of a value with the premium when you have this great NAV system in the car. Any advice?

tdo123

One other thing. If you push the Menu button on the Nav. They push DVD in the upper left corner it will show you the version that you are running. I have a 2002 LS and it says "2001 vs. 1". I am interested to know if 2001 cars have this same version. My car is only 30 days old on it is on version 1 of last year.

stevestein

I just renewed the basic service. The discount isn't much, about $25 over 2 yrs and $50 for 3, but since I plan to keep the service active as a safety measure, why not save a few bucks?

I don't think there was more than one DVD avilable since the car was introduced. I don't think they can object if you want the latest version when the car is so new.

mheni1

In response to tdo123 I have a 2001 LS430 with NAV system 2001. I am led to believe, based on posts to this site that 2002 models should have the 2002 NAV disc. As a general comment I would encourage all to howl, loud and clear, to Lexus higher ups about the cost and lack of clear information about the 2002 disc issue. Does anyone have a name,phone number,fax,email for the most senior Lexus exec in the US. It would be helpful to let the head of Toyota USA know our concerns. Can anyone provide locator info on this person?

jbianco12

Thanks for the tip on the NAV DVD button to check the version number. This is great...they sold me a 02 LS with an 01 DVD in it. Bummer! I guess I'll have to do battle with the dealer. I wonder if anyone from Lexus reads this stuff? You'd think this might help them be a bit more proactive.

jschlenker

I recently purchased a 2001 LS430 with ML/NAV and the sport suspension option. This car is superior to my previous car, a Cadillac Seville STS, in every way. I really like the sport suspension option. I plan on replacing the "W" rated tires with "H" rated tires to reduce tire rumble at slow speeds and gain all weather traction capabilities. I noticed that the sport suspension is not listed as a option on the Lexus build your own web site. Has this option been eliminated? Did I buy a vehicle that will be worth less for resale because of the sport suspension option? Thanks for your opinions.

wwest

is a "subset" of what can actually be done.

Why?

Seems self-defeating to me.

stevestein

The data that is contained on the DVD is purchased by Lexus, not created by them. The mapping company may not produce products on a cycle that is synchronized with automobile model years. I'm sure every car gets the most up-to-date data available, which may happen to be dated '01 even for an '02 car. I think it would be less honorable (and more confusing) for Lexus to take the same map data and label it '02 just because of the car model year. At least this way you can know what data set you have. From what others have posted the Nav system (hardware and/or software) are different in the 02, but the map data was not updated until recently.
That said, if I had purchased an '02 recently, I'd ask for the new DVD. As I posted earlier, my dealership will be giving me one even though my car just had it's first birthday, because they were confused as to the policy and told me the first update was free.

dealin

What version of the DVD is in the 2001 ls 430. Can someone check and post it here -- please

when someone gets the new DVD please let us know what has changed -- i.e. is even worth the hassle?

bcleepe

My 2002 LS430 bought last September has the 2001 v1 DVD on it. Just like the previous posts, my dealer told me that the first update will be free and I will get a notice when an update is available. He also advised that I should wait for a few years before updating it because the changes from year to year is minor. I plan to follow his advice and expect the first update be free.

jbianco12

Well, now I'm really confused. I just got off the phone with the service dept in Santa Monica, CA and they said the update for '02 wouldn't be available until the fall.