Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2003 earlier)

cblake2

"Crystaltod," if I were you, I'd read all the *archived* posts here for the Sienna. This current discussion is a continuation of other threads with hundreds of messages. Read them carefully. Also, read "The Complaint Station" (http://www.thecomplaintstation.com) for discussion of the sludge issue. Posts were made there months ago. The NHTSA *does* have Sienna complaints. I pulled some up this summer, but the website has not been allowing access lately. Contact NHTSA by phone and order the owner complaints, if necessary.

Some of the more common problems included drifting/pulling to the right or left; uneven tire wear; rear brake drum warping; sticking sliding doors; torque converter defect; premature transmission failure with and without previous torque converter replacement; power steering problems; vibrations at highway speeds; and engine sludge.

Aside from the sludge issue, I have been most amazed by the premature transmission failures in the 2000 model. By my estimation, the transmission doesn't seem to be better than the Chrysler minivan transmission. That's a scary proposition!

My "gut feeling" (and it has served me well after all the facts come forth) is that you should be GUARDED at best. I came to Toyota from a Dodge Caravan experience. My '95 Honda Odyssey has been OK, but I preferred the looks and comfort of the Sienna. At this point, I wouldn't consider a minivan because of the quality issues. They are NOT what they are professed to be, IMO.

If I were you, I'd DO the research and not be too quick to discount the owner reports here. I'd trust them FAR MORE than any Consumer Reports early assessment of a vehicle. I trusted CR when I bought the DC. It said that "reliability had improved considerably." My trust was misplaced. Others warned me, but I did not listen. Now, I do, but after considerable research of ample owner experiences.

Unfortunately, the Sienna was too new to get much conclusive data. That data is much more accessible now, two years since my purchase.

Others will tell you that you might expect too much. Some will say look at all the complaints on the other vehicles out there. Such statements do not distract from the *real problem*....quality control. We should expect a safe, reliable vehicle whose warranty will be honored. The automaker should deliver this.

It is *not* any more comforting to know that other automakers are suffering from the same poor quality control. Toyota has professed to be better than the competition. Now is the time to PROVE it. We shouldn't expect less from Toyota.

Good luck with your purchase.

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com

pilot13

In fact, it's more than that--it's great advice! This posting is by far the best explanation on how to avoid xmission problems that I've seen so far in any post and any topic.
Sincere"Thanks" for this. It finally puts to rest all the speculative hype about mysterious gremlins in Toyota Sienna transmissions.

readytobuy1

I think pilot13 was refering to post # 609 by 18466 regarding the tranny problems.

Oh, and crystaltod, remember that there are some people out there that will have problems regardless of the vehicle they own, and history has proven this. If I had problems with every vehicle I've owned, manufactured by various companies, I'd seriously look into public transportation. But luckily, I own a Toyota..........

smfran

We purchased our 2000 Sienna LE almost one year ago. It has 10,000 miles on it and has been virtually flawless. Any minor problems we have had have been taken care of cheerfully by the dealer.
An automobile is an assembly of many, many parts. They all can't work flawlessly together forever. Scheduled routine maintenance will avoid most problems. The ones that can't be avoided should be taken care of at once.
We've owned many cars/vans from many manufacturers and maintained them all by the recommended schedule. Doing this has insured reliable transportation.
We love our Sienna!

inky

Here is a strange one. I have XLE with moonroof with Toyota wind deflector. IT does a great job at reducing noice when roof is open. However, when roof is closed it make a racket with whistle wind noise that is non-existent without the deflector. So, I have messed with roof rack brace position and the deflector is anchored properly.
Any ideas or experiences out there? Would like to here from other XLE owners with this set up. Stranger is I had a 98 XLE with same configuation and no noise?
Thanks!
INKY

18466

A few more items to consider on the fluid life is driving style, stop and go driving, hauling heavy loads, towing, and frequent hill climbing. If you must climb a steep hill don't leave your van in overdrive because this puts extra strain on the mechanical components. The normal operating temperature of the Sienna's transmission is between 158F to 176F. Operating 20 degrees above this decreases your fluids life by about 50%. Any automatic transmission will fail prematurely if not maintained. Try this test to see what condition your fluid is in. Take a piece of white plastic and place a drop of new fluid on it, then take a drop off your dipstick and place it on the plastic, you will notice the color difference and you will be amazed at how much darker older fluid is. The key to keeping your transmission healthy is keeping your fluid fresh.

kw6

I tried to find your original post on the trans problem, but couldn't. What was the sound you were hearing? I have a 2000 Sienna, and mine makes a thunk noise in response to on/off the accelerator. It also does it when I start the van, and when I shift back into park. The dealer couldn't duplicate, but is willing to repair whatever the problem may be. Any ideas?

pilot13

Don't be surprised if a post shows up in this topic within the next few days telling of a Sienna from California with horrid tranny problems, and a host of other ills as well.
Don't be fooled either--it's a "put up job" by a small group of consumer advocates who are trying to garner attention to their cause; namely , to cash in on an upcoming class action suit against Toyota.
This particular claim is fraudulent, and not to be confused with legitimate postings here or elsewhere.

vadp

Let us judge for ourselves.
Leave your warnings at home, please.
It seems that there is a small group of the Toyota defenders trying to discredit the Toyota owners having serious problems as the Toyota bashers and whiners.

pilot13

The post you refer to is not intended to restrict anyone in any way from deciding for themselves. Nor should it---What was posted was truth, based on factual circumstances, and can be verified. It refers only to one set of circumstances which are completely fraudulent. It was not intended to detract from or reflect on legitimate claims or problems reported in this Topic. If you find the posting not to your liking, simply ignore it, but please do not, as many have been reminded by the Topics Hosts, resort to personal attacks. Thanks.

cliffy1

It amazes me that something like this forum can be so misused. This topic should be a tool for people to figure out how to solve their problems. It should be a place to learn. Instead, it ends up being a place to gripe, point fingers and stir up emotions and get people riled up into money making ventures like class action suits.

vadp

"This topic should be a tool for people to figure out how to solve their problems."
Sure.
Class action suit? Never heard of.
BTW, cliffy, don't try to play an independent observer.
You know what I mean.

cliffy1

Relax dude. It'll do you good.

vadp

Wonder, why I am getting your attention... Thanks for caring anyway.

drew_

Okay okay, enough already! I think everyone has made their point. Let's get back to the topic at hand or I'll have to start removing disruptive posts. As I have said before and will say it again, if a post is not to your liking, use the down arrow and zoom past it. If you must respond, play nice and keep it clean. I know it's hard sometimes to ignore the post(s), but if you respond or you'll be adding fuel to the fire. Messages that Steve (my co-host) and I deem inappropriate will be removed.

Thank you all for your co-operation and your civil discourse!

Drew
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

soccermama

I have a '99 EL Van in which someone gently bumped
into my rear right corner in a parking lot.... the lady want going 3 miles an hour.... the
stupid thing cave in like they had hit me at 40 miles an hour... It looked God awful. I have had smaller cars of less quality, and had bumper thumpers worst hit without a scratch.... To repair it... it would have to be replaced at about 450.00 to 500.00, what a
cam that is.....a friend worked on it for hours and finally got it popped out...not the same....but atleast it doesnt look like crap....since that happened just about every 5th
Sienna I see has the same damage, left or right corners.....can we do something about this...surely is it a major quality defect...shouldnt a bumper protect the vehicle....
this one definitely wont !!!! Your comments are grealty appreciated...

cliffy1

I sense a bit of hyperbole in your post. Have you ever seen what a 40 MPH hit looks like? Do you know exactly what 3 MPH looks like? The bumper is designed to prevent damage to the body. Did your accident cause any actualy body components to be damaged? From your description, it sounds like the bumper did exactly what it was intended to do. It deformed and prevented actual body damage.

drew_

The US government only requires the bumpers to prevent damage to the vehicle's body at speeds up to 2.5mph. FWIW, the standard was actually 5mph in the 1980's, but the Republicans (specifically when Reagen went into office) lowered it to 2.5mph after the automanufacturers whined. So, if you're going to blame anyone, you know who to look for.

To see what a 40mph offset collision would do to your vehicle, click here to see the IIHS's 40mph offset crash test report.

The IIHS also tests bumper performance at 5 mph. To see how your van faired in comparison to others, click here.

Good luck!

Drew
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

cliffy1

I love having you around sometimes! OK, most of the time.

eneth

Actually, the 2.5 mph standard applies only to passenger cars in the U.S. Minivans qualify as multipurpose vehicles and need no meet even that standard.

If you think what happens to a Sienna in a low-speed impact is bad - take a look at what happens to an SUV like an Explorer.

drew_

Thanks for the correction, eneth! Cliffy1, :-)


Drew
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

iforgotit

I too have seen many Sienna's with a bumper corner bashed in. My bumper's right corner has been bashed in twice so far. The first time I had it repaired for free at a local body shop. Second time, paid $20 for the repair. They use a heat gun on the bumper to warm it up then they pop the dent out. The whole process took less than 10 minutes. You'd have to inspect it very carefully to notice that it was damaged.

smfran

As I have posted in this and the Toyota Sienna VI forum, we could not love our Sienna more. However, it is a fact that the rear bumper corners in the Camry and Sienna are a weak spot. I also see many on the road pushed in; including my next door neighbor's. My wife barely tapped a tree while backing up and the same thing happened. My dealer removed the bumper and used the heat method to repair it, cheerfully and at no charge. The problem is that there is no reinforcement behind the bumper corners. It is empty behind there. The straight parts of the bumper has some type of styrofoam backing. The 5MPH test that drew mentions above does not test the corners.
As much of a fan of Toyota as I am, I still think they could improve the integrity of the bumper corners; especially in a model that is 4 years old.

drew_

Yes, the IIHS does test the corners of the bumpers, but only for the front bumper. Their 4 bumper tests include front-into-flat-barrier, rear-into-flat-barrier, front-into-angle-barrier, and rear-into-pole. Bumpers should protect car bodies from damage in low-speed collisions, the kind that frequently occur in congested urban traffic, but they may sacrifice themselves as a result.

The Camry actually did well (relative to other models) in its class:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_midinexp.htm


Drew
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

dmathews3

Is it possible that the #'s have changed from when they were posted. They said with this new software what message 100 is to day may not be message 100 next week. Everytime a person deletes their post all the messages after it are changed by 1. Kind of sucks but it is supposed to be better software. I like the old software better myself.

pilot13

Over the past few weeks there has been much discussion in this topic and others, on so-called "sludge" problems with Toyota's V6 engine--the same one supplied in the Sienna model. To date, no credible evidence has appeared, or been provided by anyone to support this claim. On the contrary, a great deal of information has been posted by a wide variety of obviously knowledgeable individuals, on how a problem like this might develop in any engine, not just Toyota products..
However, there are still some non believers who cannot, or won't, accept anything other than a theory that Toyota has launched a campaign to stonewall any and all warranty claims--sludge included. They continue to justify this position with persistent flag waving and politicised rhetoric, in spite of what anyone says. To those who still doubt, and those who don't and who seek to learn more, I direct your attention to several very good sources of information on this and other problems, as follows:
1. The "Engine Sludge " topic in the "Maintenance and Repair" category of the Town Hall. In the past week there are some excellent postings on the subject.
2.The Complaint Station.com website, specifically 2 postings by K.Lee, one on Jan.12 and another on Jan 14. Both are honest and straightfoward--well worth reading.( Look up "T", and then scroll down to "Toyota".)
3.Two other very informative websites; www.skillcentre.com, and alldata.com. Both are comprehensive databases ror just about anything you want to know about cars.
Last, but not least, before immediately condemning Toyota on any problems you may be having, do some research, or ask questions and then listen to what comes back. Don't be tempted to try the "Ready, Fire, Aim" strategy put forth by the conspiracy advocates. Their objective may be to highlight a problem, but that technique usually creates far more problems than it resolves.

vadp

Toyota CAN'T have problems.
In case if you think any different please consult pilot 13 before condemning the problem free brand as everybody knows Toyota is.

minpin1

My Sienna has increasing white smoke from the exhaust. It is sweet-smelling. I was under the impression that this indicates a possible head gasket failure.

I have read the many posts about engine sludge, though. How would the exhaust smoke differ? Would the head gasket leak create a sludged engine? Why are so many Toyotas showing signs of engine sludge in the warranty period?

How is Toyota permanently correcting the steering problems in the Sienna? There is a lengthy T.S.B. that addresses the problem....but, does it actualy fix the problem?

What would cause a gasoline odor from the front end of the vehicle? Are there any fuel injection problems in this van?

Thanks.

thewolverine

Here's a repost with correct spelling - seems I made the mistake of trying to use Edmund's spell check software.

Minpin1: I have a 98 Sienna LE (~24,000 miles) and a 2001 XLE (~2,500 miles) - steering handles like a dream - not quite as good as the double wishbone in the Ody but I had other reasons for picking Sienna over Ody. I assume you've checked the power steering fluid - I have had to top off the power steering fluid in my 98 Sienna.

I change Oil & filter regularly around 3,000 with the recommended grade and have no sludge problems.

White smoke is usually Oil - sweet smell often indicates anti-freeze. Certainly sounds like a gasket but if you want to go the Fuel Injector route check out T.S.B. EG013-99. Found this on Motor Age's site and it refers to 1999 Sienna Fuel Injectors as well as other Toyota models
(Avalon, Camry, Solara, Corolla).

Good luck and when you do find the solution please post so others can learn from your experience!

pilot13

There could be a number of reasons for white smoke, and yes, a head gasket could be one of them. You would be wise to have this checked by your dealer service techs, or a full service repair shop.
Yes, there have been many posts about engine sludge. Most have been Q & A's on the subject. Very few have been actual reported cases. All the evidence points toward the importance of regular oil changes in avoiding problems. Use 3000 miles as a benchmark oil change interval and you shouldn't have any trouble.
There was a TSB on alignment on 98 Siennas. If you have problems, take your van to the dealer and ask to have it looked at. Normally, Toyota will set up the suspension to a predetermined spec. If your van is within spec. they won't change it. However, the spec. is sometimes not broad enough to suit all driving/road conditions. You may have to have an accredited alignment shop make adjustments which exceed the Toyota spec., if Toyota finds it within spec.
A gasoline odour is usually caused by overfilling (Forcing) the gas tank. It overcomes the ability of the Emission Control system to trap gasoline vapours. However, once in a while there could be a leak in the fuel delivery system. If the smell persists, have it looked at.

fischda

1) I took my '99 XLE in to have the sliding door catch and post replaced (warranty) because they rusted. Has anyone had this problem? It was only one side, not both. Just curious.

2) While there, I got prices for the 30K service items. I then went to an independent mechanic recommended at www.cartalk.com and got his prices (surprise, I can save money). The list includes coolant flush, 4 wheel alignment and throttle body maintenance (preventative cleaning). I don't think any of these actions are necessary at 30K. I've let coolant go 50-60K with no problems, my tires don't feel uneven or cupped so I don't think I need an alignment, and what's with cleaning the trottle bodies in the fuel injectors? I've heard of a good gas additive for that, but in the absence of any fuel delivery problems, why have them cleaned? Each cylinder has it's own jet, so I assume this procedure required cracking open the ports. BTW, does anyone know whether the Sienna V-6 has EFI or MPFI?

3) I will have done: tire rotation and balance, tranny/diff oil change, and air filter. Does anyone change spark plugs at 30K? Does the engine come with normal or long-life platinum tipped plugs? Can anyone offer any reason for paying more at the dealer for routine scheduled maintenance over a cheaper, reliable independent guy?

4) Soccermama (I love that handle) - if the bumper bashing was somebody else's fault, why not have the bumper replaced? It's his insurance, not yours, and you're entitled to having your bumper returned to its previous condition. I see nothing wrong with "bashable" bumpers as long as they protect the body. And if you bash them yourself, hey, it's on you, so be careful.

5) minpin1 - If your exhaust is smelling sweet, why not take the opportunity to freshen up a stale-smelling garage? Just close the door and let the car run for 30 or 40 minutes. You may want to stay in there to monitor the process (just kidding - don't try that at home, kids)!

siennastinks

Because you have appointed yourselfs to be self-professed no alls about Toyota Siennas, my question is do you work for Toyota?

You find it so easy to discount serious problems that Sienna owners are having--especially regarding failing transmissions. No one asked to have their lives at risk or to be greatly inconvenienced by these defective transmissions.

It's great you've had good experiences with Siennas and Toyotas. Not everyone has been as fortunate.

pilot13

I don't work for Toyota, and I believe Cliffy is a sales consultant at a Toyota Dealer in Virginia. He's also one of the most credible and respected guys in the Town Hall. Ask anyone! I'm an (early) retired engineer, own two Toyotas (2K Avalon and Sienna), and both are great. As far as the "self professed know-it all bit goes", I think you're a bit over the top on that score.(On Cliffy for sure!)
Regarding your tranny problems, if you can't find what you want here, try the following websites:
www.skillcentre.com, and www.alldata.com. They're both excellent sources of info. Whatever you do, don't give up on your Toyota...They really are good products, and there are lots of people in the Town Hall who will try to help you. Just ask.

readytobuy1

FYI, per a post on "thecomplaintstation", cblake has been banned from Edmunds.....

dana

Enough is enough. Edmunds.com does not allow harasment of other members. See the Terms of Use agreement.

Edmunds.com Terms of Use also states, "I agree to disagree in a civil manner should I take issue with the statements of another Town Hall participant or any Edmunds.com, Inc. Editor or content contributor. I understand that civility and respect underlie the success of an online community such as Town Hall."

If there are is any more finger-pointing directed either subtlely or NOT so subtlely...to individuals...and NOT the issues, then we will have no choice but to delete such posts and if they continue, we will have to ban such users from Town Hall.

Please keep Town Hall a place for civil discussion and a place where all people feel comfortable coming to give their opinions on the subject matter NOT harrassing other members. Thank you for respecting our wishes in keeping Town Hall a friendly place for discussion.

Sincerely,

Dana S. Livingston
Manager, Community
Town Hall
Edmunds.com
dlivingston@edmunds.com

fischda

So anybody have any answers to my questions in post #641!

Okay, first I'll apologize to minpin for being a smart-ss, but hey, I'm only using humor to keep it light here.

Seriously, I hate to blow a wad of cash on sceduled maintenance that really isn't necessary, or could be performed a little less often, let's say. I think manufacturers' recommendations are aimed somewhat at making more money. Then there are dealers who recommend different or more frequent Mx than the manual - I have to conclude it's to make more profit on their service markup. I know people say if you follow your scheduled Mx, your car will last longer, but I've owned cars that lasted 100-200K miles without conforming to those norms. Cliffy, since you're a "company" man, I'd appreciate your honest opinion, as well as anyone else's! Thanks...

dmathews3

I guess the bottom line on maintainance is if something goes bad and Toyota finds out you did not preform scheduled maintainance than my guess is you will pay just like the now famous oil sludge problem. People did not change oil at scheduled mileage and now they are paying $6+ grand for new engines. So, go a head save a couple of bucks. Like the fram man used to say on TV, you can pay me now or pay later.

leslieldf

I read a detailed discussion somewhere on exactly this topic...owner's manual vs. dealer suggestions for scheduled maint. It may have been in Edmunds, or possibly cartalk.com.

It was a while ago, but I remember one reason the car manual usually lists less things than the dealer is that the car companies are trying to keep the cost down, so that the cost of ownership is lower. Dealerships will suggest more for the owner who wants to insure against a breakdown on the road. Fix it before it breaks, kind of thing.

Those were a couple of points I remember, that made me think, given my nervous nellie nature, that I'd lean towards the dealerships recommendations...or a good independent...whoever I trust.

Like a lot of things, there's probably no one right answer. Other than, the owner's manual is probably the minimum requirement both for taking care of the car and our warranty!

For what it's worth (...what you paid for it???)

pilot13

This is a sincere request, no offence intended whatsoever. Do you really know of anyone who has actually had to pay these "big bucks" for engine repairs on their Toyota because of sludge? So far, I haven't seen any such situations in the Town Hall......Have you? Has anyone?
We've seen a great deal of discussion on the subject, but so far it's been largely speculation, and "what if" scenarios. I'm beginning to think seriously that there may be a tempest in a teapot going on here!

leslieldf

I think the articles are in Edmunds, under their "editorial" section. There's "Maintenance" at:

http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/features/maintenancemadness/maint1.html

smfran

I realize that bumpers are there for a particular reason and they even may have to sacrifice themselves to protect the body. My only comment is that if additional reinforcement was behind the rear bumper corners, you would see less Siennas on the road with them pushed in. It clearly is a weak spot; there's nothing behind there! It pushes in much too easily. Such a low cost simple improvement should already have been made to a four year old model. Don't you agree?

cantdecide2

In response to Drew post #627. Many thanks for the link to the crash test results sites. It was very informative. When I talk to the salesman and look at the car literature it make the dodge and toyota seem almost equal. Granted the sites did not have a test of the 2001 model dodge but it was still very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to make the post.

zsurfer

Yes I have seen Siennas with bumper corners bashed in but I concur with an earlier post that they are doing exactly what they are supposed to. The bumpers are appropriately designed to dissipate the force of the low speed impact. If the corners of the bumpers were re-inforced then that force will have to be transferred some other place, such as the body panels or the frame of the vehicle and that would be VERY expensive to fix.

deepan

I have seen on my 2000 sienna that both the sliding door catch & post are rusted. I am hoping to taki it to the dealer once winter is gone. Is this regular as i have seen posts about this in the past.

fischda

My dealer's service manager says he had never seen a rusted door catch and post, but he quickly and happily replaced them!

grplavloff

"I sense a bit of hyperbole in your post. Have you ever seen what a 40 MPH hit looks like? Do you know exactly what 3 MPH looks like? The bumper is designed to prevent damage to the body."

The complaint is quite legitimate: if you push in
on a plastic skin that has nothing behind it, it
will push in. The corner sections of the bumpers
are designed for appearance, not damage control.

dmathews3

pilot13 Jan 17, 2001 4:32pm
All I have heard is the people complaining here as they have taken their Toyota in because of engine problems and told it will cost $$$ and is not warrantied.

pilot13

What we have seen, in fact, is a great deal of hyperbole on the subject, with a total of exactly 3 postings in the entire Town Hall where someone actually stated they had a sludge problem. And how many of those 3 "victims" alledging sludge were for real?
IMHO, I truly believe this issue was a put on by a few consumer advocate wannabees using the Town Hall for solicitous purposes, and not for what it was intended. Hey, what the heck, we can always look on the bright side and confirm that we certainly learned a lot!
So much for my ramblings. Thanks for the feedback.

rbg1

We bought a 2000 Sienna CE about 18 months ago, and have driven it nearly 15,000 miles. It seems to be a very well-made vehicle. We have had just one minor problem (leaking camshaft sensor), which we identified from reading these Edmunds discussions, and which was corrected by the dealer without incident.

I have been fortunate to be able to keep my cars for a long time, and I expect no less than 20 years or 200,000 miles from the Sienna. (I perform a lot of my own maintenance. I was able to keep my previous car -- made by another Japanese company -- on the road for 20 years, and it didn't seem to be made nearly as well as the Sienna.)

I discovered Edmunds just before we bought our van, and have been following the Sienna Town Hall discussions faithfully for about 18 months, although I have rarely posted. However, I feel that the quality and usefulness of this particular discussion has deteriorated in recent months, which compels me to comment.

I read this topic because, as someone who is diligent about maintenance, I would like to know what problems are being encountered by other Sienna owners. This information allows me to be on the lookout for certain problems and, where appropriate, to adjust my preventive maintenance procedures. I realize that some of the postings have more credibility than others, but I value the opportunity to read them all and form my own opinions.

That is why I am concerned and disappointed to read (in post #644 above) that cblake has been "banned" from Edmunds. While I often disagreed with aspects of her postings (which did not always demonstrate sufficient mechanical knowledge), she seemed to have identified a number of legitimate problems with the Sienna, and also seemed very knowledgeable about consumer advocacy. Although I don't know whom to believe about this sludge issue, her postings were educational. Thanks to Ms. Blake, I believe many people are convinced that it's a good idea to change the Sienna's oil more frequently than the 7500-mile interval stated in the owner's manual. (I was already changing it every 3000 miles, but I had thought this was probably more frequent than necessary.) In fact, based on the information that I have read, I am sufficiently concerned that I'm now going to switch from conventional to synthetic oil, which I will still change every 3000 miles.

I never saw any of Ms. Blake's postings as being lacking in civility or in violation of any Edmunds policy. Even if certain individuals have disagreed with her postings, I have been surprised by the uniform rancor of their responses, as well as their personal attacks on Ms. Blake. After reading attack after attack, I was waiting for the hosts of this discussion to do something to "protect" Ms. Blake. I can recall that, when some of the "Honda Odyssey vs. [any other van]" discussions would start to get nasty, the hosts would step in and delete the worst postings, or at least would single out the abusers of the Town Hall Terms of Use, and issue them a direct warning. By contrast, the hosts of this discussion offered relatively weak, generalized guidance about compliance with the Terms of Use (not singling out any of the true offenders) and, if post #644 is to be believed, now apparently have banned Ms. Blake!

If this state of affairs is allowed to persist, the average Sienna owner will be reluctant to post any problems in this forum, for fear of being attacked by the "Toyota, right or wrong" crowd. Then, as fewer and fewer problems are identified here, there will be a decrease in interest, in participation and in readership. Although I am reluctant to criticize the hosts, who have overseen generally useful discussions, I feel that this particular situation has been handled in a counter-productive way. What was done seems contrary to the entire purpose (identification of "Toyota Sienna Problems") of this discussion.

I've never completely understood why, after somebody takes the trouble to alert us to a problem with their particular vehicle, two or three posters need to jump out of the woodwork to question whether such a problem really exists. It leads one to wonder whether Toyota itself is monitoring and influencing these discussions.

I have generally enjoyed the Edmunds Town Hall discussions very much, and have learned a lot about the Sienna and other vehicles. However, if the information in these discussions is going to be filtered or tainted, the readers will have to go elsewhere on the internet to engage in a full and fair discussion.

Thank you for your consideration.

vadp

A very objective and thougtful post.