Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

delrick

Had the same problem in my 2002 Envoy XL.

Vibration at hiway speed.

Rather than screw around with the dealer, took it to my regular tire shop.

Asked them to balance all 4 tires for freeway speeds.

Vibration gone. Sloppy finish work at factory strikes again.

adjguy

My wife up our glovebox last night and noticed it was really dark. I could have sworn there was a light for the glove box in the 2002, am I wrong?

First the hood light, now this!!! I bet if they could get away with not putting headlights on they would! LOL

ADJGUY

capicipie

Greetings,

I am a new member here and have a quick question. I just got a 2002 envoy SLT My wife is saying that her seat belt is locking up when she tries to move forward and will not unlock unless she takes it off and redoes it. Has anyone else experienced this?

I truly love my new Envoy! I got it off the show room (103 miles) and 5 years at 0% ain't bad!.

Looking forward to chatting with all of you!

c2h6o

Got the seal around the license plate pocket installed on my TB LTZ this past Saturday. But what amazed me was that my dealer insisted that they had to order the ENTIRE license plate pocket assembly to get the gasket. The said their parts guy called GM and was told that the only way to get the gasket was to order a new assembly that came with one. I think I'm the first one at my dealer to get it installed since the three times I've been there asking about it, they always ask me what I'm talking about and could I show them a TB on the lot with one.

Anyway - just curious as to whether or not anyone else has had to have the entire assembly replaced just to get a simple gasket.

Oh - and to compound the fun, when they installed it they put a small "ripple" in the gasket on the one side. Oops. Guess I won't be "completely satisfied" when I get my survey. I would have had them re-do if I had the time to sit and have them take everything apart again! It just amazes me that the tech would put the door back together with the an obvious ripple in the gasket. I pointed it out to the service manager before I left and he wasn't too happy about it...

-Jason

ficuss

adjguy: I think GM overlooked thr fog light/ hi-beam situation rather than as you say allowed it to occur. I pity the soon to temporarily blinded motorist who happens to approach in your direction at night. Weren't we always told that high beams do more harm than good in the fog anyway?

mdey

TBlazed: You're right, the torque converter does lock up. I have tested the vehicle in "3" without a load and I never was able to get the torque converter to lock up. I probably wasn't getting it up to the proper speed. I pulled my utility trailer Saturday with a load of firewood (about 2,000 pounds total) for 35 miles. Selected "3" and sure enough the torque converter locked up. It unlocked a little too easily, but it did lock up. Live and learn.

As for the news that the fog lights stay on with the high beams on 03 TBs; it is illegal in most states to burn more than four forward lights total. Older model cars, if you'll remember, had separate high-beam and low-beam lamps. When the high beams were on, four lamps total were in use. That is why most aftermarket foglight kits come with a circuit that turns the foglamps off when the highbeams are engaged. Without the circuit, you would be burning six lights.

None-the-less, drive a car with high beams and fog lights burning and the same time and you are liable to find an oncoming car drifting into your lane as the driver shields his eyes to avoid temporary blindness. I don't think adjguy's discovery is a good thing.

2k_impala_ls

Someone had asked about turning the DRL's off, for what good reason I don't know but in my owners manual for my 02 TB, there was a supplement inside the cover named "Getting to know your 2002 TB". It basicly runs through all of the optional equipment, radio, etc., like a quick reference guide. You can turn off the DRL's by pressing the DOME OVERRIDE BUTTON 4 times within 6 seconds (this is the small round button below the headlight switch on the left). You will here a chime to tell you it worked. To turn them back on, just do the reverse. I think the Automatic Headlights are also disabled. See your manual.

dragonhead08

Well looks like the dealer refused to do cut me slack on the cost of replacing the circuit for the back up lights. So to eveyone out there. if you plan on upgrading any of your lighting, make sure you remove it anytime you take it in to the dealer. Because it turns out that aftermarket bulbs are not "authourized" to be used so they stick it to you if they can for any repairs. then again it could be that my dealers service manager is just a jerk. Oh but i was given a free tire rotation and oil change by GM customer service. ....woooo, what a deal(sarcasim here). I'd enter the name of the dealer as warning to others but I might get banned for it for mentioning them.

mattlissy

I have heard that some Envoy and/or Envoy XL's received the modifications in the later 2002 build. I have a June-2002 build XL.

bakednut

Hey all.

IM STILL HATING my DRL's but OH WELL.

Ficuss asked if Hi-beams do more harm than good in foggy conditions. Yes Hi-beams do more harm. The light is reflected in the water particles in the air rite back into ur peepers. But hi-beams arent used for foggy conditions. they are used for driving on dark roads. similar to the functionallity of DRIVING LIGHTS. They are used to "penatrate" darkness to give the driver a better range of vison @ nite. If you see certain rally cars they will have a ridiculous cluster of lights on/in the hood. They are actually 2 different sets. one being fogs to give the driver a wider rage of vison and a set of driving to give a deeper range of vision.

on a side note. has anyone ever tried changeing the type of bulb you can put into a different housing? im specifically wondering about the Tb's fog lights. I really dislike the fact that chevy did this. There is virtually NO option to light modification (smart move on their part? or part of a diabloical scheme to piss us off!~ i choose latter). Does anyone know of some type of socket and harness conversion? I have my HID's in i have my PIAA 520 FOGS (ion yellow), now i want to do something bout the factory fogs. worst case scenario ill have to remove the stock housing and put in aftermark ones. The one time i hate the aftermarket is when they dont perfectly match OE.

on another sadder side note, my younger brother got into a an accident with my other car, (toyota Solara). He is ok, and walked away with only a few scratches on his person, THANK GOD. He was VERY lucky. It was raining pretty hard and he was T-boned. Safe to say that the car has been turned into a boomarang. sad to see my other car succumb to that fate. but relieved my brother is safe. I'm now back in the car market again. This time around im thinkin Impreza WRX, or waitin around a few months an go fer the lancer evo VII. Any ideas or suggestions? lemme knoW~.

tblazed

Yes thanks for the tip: I have known that since day one. I just get tired of pushing the dome override button each time I want the DRLs off. Sometimes I get the beep-beep-beep and they go off on 3 pushes, sometimes pushing the button 4 times also turns off the dome lights too (but not every time) which I want on. Seems like it gets confused sometimes. On overcast days I like the DRLs on but on days the sun is out I prefer to keep them off. I figure even though the DRLs are at reduced brightness they do draw current and shorten the life of the bulbs. I have gotten into quite a routine - pulling up the parking brake one notch before I start the engine in the garage so the auto-headlights don't come on before I start it up, then pushing the dome override button to turn off the DRLs, backing out of the garage enough to get the sensor in the sunlight, then releasing the brake. What a hassle.

scottc454

The DRL's use the bright lights in series to make the m half bright. No need to worry about your regular headlights burning out. I don't like DRL's for other reasons, though.

tblazed

Are you sure that's how they are done on the Triplets? On a couple of anti-DRL web sites they show several ways. Series connection like you say, going through a series of diodes to get about 10 V to the lights (each diode in series will cause about .6 to .7 Volt drop) a module that does the DRLs located somewhere behind the dash or over the radio, etc etc. Sure would like to look at the wiring schematic for a TrailBlazer but don't want to bad enough to spend $120 on a full manual. The Triplets are just too new to have the method shown so far.

tblazed

Happened across this info searching around. The question is "How many more gallons of gas would be used in the US each year if all vehicles had DRLs".

"To calculate how many gallons of gas this is, you can divide the 4.26 billion kilowatt hours of energy that the daytime running lights consume each year by the 10.5 kilowatt-hours of energy each gallon of gas yields. If daytime running lights were on all the vehicles in the U.S., we would burn an extra 406 million gallons of gas each year. That's only a couple gallons for each vehicle, but in total it is more than all of the vehicles in the country burn in a day. At $1.50 a gallon, that's $600 million per year. Looking at it another way, an extra 8 billion pounds of Carbon Dioxide would be added to the atmosphere by this law."

tidester

That is interesting!

On the other hand, the U.S. consumes approximately 360 MILLION gallons of gasoline each day. How many pounds of CO₂ is that in a year?

tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

jurassic3k

Does anyone know if it is possible to put the Auto climate control in a 02 Envoy with the manual climate control? Could it be a plug and play?

tblazed

A bunch! Each gallon of gasoline burned produces somewhere between 19 and 20 lbs of CO2 depending on the source of the info I can find. Example: Through combustion each carbon atom combines with two atoms of heavier oxygen atoms, resulting in 19.4 pounds of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Yikes! So I guess if us SUV drivers are feeling guilty and want to minimize our effect on presumed global warming we could turn off our DRLs!

tidester - what key combination did you use to get the proper "2" in CO2? Now THAT'S bugging me! Can't find it in my ANSI character set list. email me how you did that if you could please.

stever

Maybe he used the html SUB _command? Or is it supposed to be SUP as in C0²?

Next we'll all learn how he does the green ;-)

Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

pepper50

Jason:
No, a dealer does not have to replace the entire license plate pocket just to get the new gasket. Sounds like your dealer didn't know the part number of the gasket, which lists for about $8.64 at Chevy dealers (although GMC dealers will double or triple this--why? because they can). But since this is under warranty, it doesn't make any difference. When I went in to have mine done, I told the dealer the part number, and he ordered it. Perhaps you didn't have the part number. It is 15170981. It is all explained in TSB #02-08-66-004. I'm surprised they didn't pull up the TSB. I fortunately carried a copy into the dealer to obviate that. If they wrinkled the new housing, then they should have to make good, since they apparently chose the wrong way to fix it. Good luck!

tidester

Yes, that is a lot!

You make subscripts with the _and tags. Everything between them is subscripted as in H_₂O.

P.S. Steve - I'm keeping colors secret!

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

ficuss

That's why I like this board so much. Who would have ever thought that a bunch of chevy drivers could solve the worlds greenhouse gas problem. Now onto another problem. What are we going to do with all of the photons generated by the drl's. I see them everywhere. There are so many you can't even keep count of them. And there are always more the next day. By the way, isn't the fizz in soda co2? If we turn off the drl's where will they get the fizz? I see flat cola on the horizon if we don't polute a little.

tidester

What are we going to do with all of the photons generated by the drl's.

Personally, I am collecting a substantial portion of them on my retinas. Yes, it does make it harder to see what else is coming but I'm doing my share for drivers behind me who won't have to endure those distracting afterimages! ;-)

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

bruser1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Daytime Running Lights designed to prevent accidents? And has anyone on the board ever seen or heard of any statistics proving these illuminators have affectively reduced vehicular collisions? Is there any empirical evidence to support this safety measure? Just common sense right? As a matter of personal preference, in some driving conditions I find the DRL's distractive, pulling my vision away from the road, vehicles, or obstacles in my path. If they would design a more moderate DRL like those on the wifes Intrigue (her tradein) the objective of visibility would be satisfied IMHO.

scottc454

I'm not defending DRL's, but I must point out the hypocrisy in thinking that shutting off DRL's is going to help with the global warming problem.
We're driving sub 20mpg tanks, people!

stever

Here's a pro-drl link and here's and anti one that you may enjoy.



Steve

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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

iexplore2000

Yep... GM's done it again! My dad and I tooled around the GMC lot this evening looking specifically for the 2003 version of his car (2002 Yukon Denali) and my 2002 Envoy SLT. RIGHT AWAY we noticed the cost cutting measures that were employed for 2003 on both models!

With a new Envoy being open, I checked inside and also noticed that the glove compartment didn't have a light, also noticed that they are now using the fixed mast antenna too!

On the Denali, they decided to do away with that big beautiful polished exhaust tip finisher and replace it with a standard steel looonnng pipe! This was one of several changes we noticed. Also, I got a serious kick out of how they modernized the dash to look identical to the Envoy's! They even use the same steering wheel and controls HOWEVER, the Denali/Escalade's steering wheel controls allow you to control ON-STAR and also switch in between ALL audio sources and next/previous tracks!

All in all, I am glad for the 2002 model now, but I sure would like to have the Denali's steering wheel! Ha, ha..

Just my two cents!

IExplore2000@aol.com

c2h6o

pepper50:
I did give them the part # and TSB #. Like I said, I think I was the first TB they did the gasket for and I think they had a hard time believing that a customer knew more about than they did.
Odd that they said they called GM and were told they had to replace the entire assmebly. Wonder if they made that one up?

-Jason

dlare

If you read GM's "what's new" on the 2003 Vortec 4200, you'll see that for 2003 they have recalibrated the PCM to improve fuel economy w/o loss of power or response.

The changes reduce the cold start idle speed and give the PCM more authority to vary cam timing on the exhaust side. This is done with noe hardware changes, just programming.

Does anyone know if it's possible to get our 2002's reprogrammed with this 2003 update?

mattlissy

Will recalibrating with 2003 code also yield the
5 hp increase? Does anyone know.

tblazed

GM has been doing this for years. In '70 I bought a 1970 Chevelle. Then 2 years later I traded it on a '71. They had eliminated the controls on the air conditioner dash vents and replaced with blank panels, did away with the chrome plating on the plastic, and went from quad headlights to duals among other cost-cutting measures. If they save $20 per vehicle eliminating the under-hood and glove box light multiply that times the several hundred thousand triplets they will sell that way and it adds up to a quite few $$$ to use for exec bonuses etc. All about the bottom line and what they can get away with before people notice.

scottc454

Why would you trade a '70 Chevelle for a '71?

The 70 Chevelle was the best car GM ever produced.

Incidentally, there is an article about how GM is going to focus on improving their interiors.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5219&sid=175&n=156

tblazed

Maybe from people exhaling more when they get excited talking about DRLs? Personally I
think I will stay home 1 extra day a year and not drive my TrailBlazer to make up for the extra
CO₂ my DRLs cause! Maybe plant a tree.

Global warming - I could have been more convinced in 1980 when ussuns in Texas had over 60 100°+ days and hit record 113° twice. This year have had ONE 100° day. In the 70's we were told the earth was going into another ice age too. It's always something....

tblazed

Because the '70 had a 350 w/bench seat, the '71 was a 402 big block with the Turbo 400, bucket seats, console.

sildog

Someone mentioned it with the fiz comment! Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is fizz and what they use to pressureize pellet guns!

The bad stuff that comes out of cars is Carbon Monoxide (CO), "unburned hydrocarbons" (HC?) and the occasional mullet!

The unburned hydrocarbons are way worse than the CO. Thats why they don't like you topping off your tank and why your service engine light comes on if you don't tighten your gas cap three clicks! Some places even have vapor recovery nozzles to collect the vapors from your empty tank as it becomes full. In the 'Natti, they ask that we get gas at night to reduce the unburned hydrocarbons released during heat of the day.

Now, what are we going to do about all the intestinal gas from the herds of flatulant cows? I am very concerned.

Bill Ding
Bovine_Bean-O.com

tblazed

That's one of the things the catalytic converter does. Convert CO to less harmful CO₂.

scottc454

It also takes care of a fair amount of unburnt hydrocarbons.

tblazer503

I have already spoken to my Chevy dealers in the area, and they have stated that it is not possible to reprogram an '02 PCM to a '03 programming. For whatever reason, it has something to do with them not being compatible? hmm... possibly has something to do witht he existing changes that they did. They did make some changes like making polymer coated pistons, revised oil pump, better chain tensioner, etc. I would admit that many of these things are mainly to make the engine quieter, with the exception of the polymer coated pistons, that is supposed to reduce scuffing on the walls and allow tighter clearances... maybe this is where the extra 5hp is truly coming from... =o)

tblazed

I am looking forward to HyperTech, Jet, ADS etc coming out with aftermarket reprogrammers for the Triplets. Even more so now since it sounds like GM will abandon any further updates for the 2002's. Now more'n likely they will be concentrating their efforts on de-bugging the '03s.

I had read a reference to a bulletin a few hundred posts back that the piston skirts were getting a graphite coating to reduce the piston noise on cold starts. Fortunately for me anyway my 2002 is quiet - no piston knock so far anyway - but that has been a known issue with several of GMs engines.

The extra 5hp could easily come from un-squishing the exhaust pipe where it goes over the rear suspension parts and doing it a better way. Looks restrictive to me. I know the peak HP has been upped by 5 but what about torque? Did they get any more torque at a lower RPM?

envoy2002

Well, a few days ago my AC again (as it does "unreproducibley" in service department terms)konked out. So instead of turning the engine off and restarting (which always works), I contacted OnStar and had them run a diagnostic. Unfortunately, according to the customer service rep, "electrical" is not OnStar diagnosable. Oh well...at least my transmission, driveshaft and other things were registering "okay". just thought I'd share this since it was previously suggested to try and call OnStar when it happens.

tlauro

Hey there all. Been gone for a while, but trying to catch up. Just in defense of a few things, and all opinion of course....

Some talk here of issues with doc fees and what other misc items may be charged by dealers....well, doc Fees are typical and when negotiating anything, such fees are pretty common. How many here have refinanced a home and broken down all the costs. I'm not saying give in and pay anything and everything, but come on...balance things. You can't fly first class and pay coach and when it comes to a $30k vehicle, the squabbles over a few bucks are hardly worth the time or frustration. Just make it a fair win-win deal and enjoy.

Doc Fees vary and regardless of how you pay for the vehicle, the F&I office and dealer in general is allowed to get paid and make money.

Believe me, I grew up in the business and new vehicles make up the smallest portion of profit for a dealer. If it wasn't for the manufacturer kick-in's, I would have passed on new cars all together and opened a buy here pay here lot. Regarding profit...my suggestion for the makers to end the urinary olypic events over a few bucks would be to sell direct to the consumer and charge list period. Not currently nor ever likely possible though.

Regarding advertising fees....again, another valid charge. Just keep in mind, that they don't have to appear on the invoice to be charged or valid. If it cost my dealership $1000 week to advertise in the local paper, we certainly aren't going to write that off as a loss...no..we would just charge our buyers more money....bottom line costs that is.

Again, IMO, as a dealer....it doesn't matter what makes up the final price, take the deal at XX$ or not. Period. Just because you're selling your house and put a nice deck on the back....would you take crap from a potential buyer who feels he could have put it up cheaper? or if they squabbled about having to pay your realitor co-op....Same difference. Most dealers will disclose the final invoice, but they don't have to eat advertising they weren't charged by the manufacturer...they may not have been and can charge you the same as one in the city that was due merely to the fact that they had to do their own advertising locally. It won't appear on the invoice, but again, in the end, the costs incurred by all aren't just going to disappear.

Last point on that subject....if the vehicle is a dealer trade...the rural dealer will end up paying the advertising charged. Charges that can very between 0-3%. Nothing is set in stone. IMO, they should also add in the costs of the transport or driver. That can be whatever is deemed agreeable between them and the buyer.

Overall, keep in mind that prep charges and anything above an beyond as a value add can be charged for. If the dealer wanted to charge you for additional prep and cleanup, they can...and the only time it's wrong is if the individual buyer chooses not to pay for it and walks.

I'm not hear to rant, fight or argue, but rather just show a different view and a little insight to the industry.

The car business is pretty simple. Sell cars, service people, make some money and have fun. No different than any industry. Those in sales understand what I mean by understanding your buyer...well, as a buyer...your job is to understand your seller. Just surfing the net, BS'ing among friends and gathering information does not deem you the best price or the best experience.

No tactic is 100%, but my advice...go into a dealer....demo, learn, have fun and be serious if you are real. Make them aware that your a buyer, and that when value = cost, you'll drive home and move on.

Put up a wall of defense, become deceptive and in general introduce frustration and anything but a positive experience for either party will happen.

Why would the sales rep call you, treat you nice or care about the footprint stain on the carpet if you were a jerk as a buyer? Is that right or something I encouraged or approve of...no, but again, understand your seller...he's human, and all the events, happenings, etc... in that persons world at that moment determine his reaction. You can affect that reaction...but many just don't know how.

I was a GM dealer and to this day, let dealers make a fair profit on my sale, keep the details very clear to protect my money and genuinely pay for services earned. I have my cars prepped to be pefect, delivered to my office and include some pretty special options and services that I will gladly pay for if it brings me value or my wife happiness. Hell, if gonna spend $35k it's going to be a fun experience for me and the dealer. Honestly, my dealer in Columbus has no idea who I was in my previous life...but I get the red carpet treatment way above and beyond other customers based on how I behave and treat MY audience. Think it's odd that I can get them to come pick up my car, drop off a Caddy and exhange them back just the same with my LTZ all cleaned up....just for an oil change? No..I don't pay more for it. I drop off a few sill goodies to the service writers, sent in a good survey for them to get a pat on the back from GM for...with a short hand written note and when I see the techs.....thank them by name. Simple. They know I'm the "cool" customer, who gives a crap about them and brings them a few Shirts, clocks and give-away toys from my marketing dept for "hooking me up" with little extras. It's all about who you know and how you treat them.

I did the same when selling...drop off the new car, drive back with the trade....get it washed, fill the tank, spend....oh...$15 of dealer money....get to know the buyer, talk on thier level and honestly say...hey, just don't beat me up and make this a fair fun deal for me too....and you know what...they always did. They bought me....get the dealer to enjoy selling you.

Sorry for the really long post. Thanks for reading this far.

tim

tblazed

Seems like the original question has been deleted. Can't find it now. Tim you need to check in more often! Original question was is $37,500 a fair price to pay for a 03 Envoy XL SLT demo with 1,000 miles on it. My answer basically was no if you can buy a brand-new unabused one for the same or less. Sounded to me that dealer was trying to pass off the "advertising cost" i.e., demonstrating the Envoy to potential buyers, to this person and did not sound like a very fair deal. I certainly would not pay that close to list ($40,000) for a used Envoy that likely has had a rough first 500 miles of break-in! Would you? I usually figure a few hundred dollars over invoice is fair considering the holdback and other dealer incentives.

Yes dealers are there to make a profit but doing things like "oh by the way there is a $370 charge for glass etching" (that costs the dealer less than $100) after you have settled on a car and are in the office doing the final paperwork makes for animosity and distrust of car dealers in general. That's what happened to a friend of mine in the final minutes of buying his TB. In my particular occupation if we tried to add extra charges for advertising in the Yellow Pages etc. people would walk out and never come back, so we figure in the cost of doing business in the actual price we charge for our services.

Not too sure either about having to bribe these guys in the service department with trinkets to get preferential treatment when they are getting paid to render proper service. Getting free use of a Cadillac while the oil is being changed is a real exception. The dealer I have used advertises oil changes in 30 min on a big sign out front. No dealership in this area will let a customer set foot in the service area (unless THEY want the customer in there) . They all have signs saying they don't want to be responsible and their insurance forbids it so I don't see how I could build a working relationship with the technicians working on my vehicle.

blrmkr

AC failure was one of the problems I had that turned out to be linked to an intermittent faulty ignition switch.

jwinky

Delrick,

Check the build date of your Envoy XL (sticker inside of driver's door). I purchased an Envoy with 1SH package back at the end of April. Before I did, I was looking on gmbuypower and noticed that 2 Envoys speced the same with a 1SH package had two different prices. Thought it was odd and looked a little deeper.

Since buypower will show the sticker of the vehicle, I was able to determine that the ECAS load leveling suspension was deleted on some (the ones with newer build dates). Turns out the price difference was the exact amount if the ECAS suspension was purchased as a stand alone option.

Back to my buying experience. I questioned the sales manager on this and he said that in March/April time frame, there was a national shortage/backorder on parts for the air suspension. Instead of shutting down the factories (OH and OK), GM decided to delete it from the package and put shock/spring parts on instead. They did credit the MSRP of the package and vehicle on the sticker for this running change.

Here is what I would do to find out if you truly paid for it. Go find another XL equipped the same as yours but that has the ECAS and compare the 1SH package price and the MSRP to see if there is about a $210 - $260 difference from the sticker on yours (if ou still have it).

However, if the agreed upon price (before the dealer trade) was on the understanding of getting the air suspension, then you may have some recourse. The dealer should have made sure that he was making and apple for apple trade. I can see this being a very gray subject, because there should have been checks on both sides (dealer and yours). Either way, I know how it feels. When I bought my old Civic, I thought I was getting ABS and the price we agreed upon I though was for that. I took delivery of a car without it, so I know how you feel.

IMHO, the non-air suspension ride is just fine on my standard Envoy, but I do not know what your needs are.

HTH,
JAW

tlauro

It's been a while. I've been pretty busy at work and waffle between the vehicle hobby and digital photography hobby in spurts. Tough with two personal hobbies too as family comes first...you know the deal...but happy to surf here again. Two days in a row even!

I understand your points and just was releasing a bit of typing to make up for things.

Do try the kindness approach though. Get to know the service guys and techs as they walk by if you can. They can't all be so cool so quickly, but it does pay off.

The situation with your friend and the glass etching...not sure what exactly happened, but if was $XXX dollars agreed upon and then $XXX plus $370 once he sat down...then I'd certainly push back on the deal. However, if it was just broken out and made more noticable in the F&I office but part of the agreed upon price, then I'd have to side with the dealer and say that he did agree to the figure earlier when it was already factored in. Who knows.

Anyway, good to be back.

tim

tblazed

According to my friend, he was dealing on the factory sticker price and at the last they kinda sprung that on him like "oh by the way all ours have this" and by that time he was already sold on the particular vehicle. Texas has this darn "Blue Law" that keeps dealers closed either on Saturday or Sunday (choice of the dealer mgt.) and this was on a Sunday, my friend works the other 6 days a week so he basically was tired, gave in and did it anyway against his better judgement. 1st thing he wanted to know from me was somewhere else to take all his future service work because he felt he'd gotten taken advantage of. Don't go in to buy a new car when you are tired and not thinking clearly is the lesson learned.

jurassic3k

Does anyone know if it is possible to put the Auto climate control in a 02 Envoy with the manual climate control? Could it be a plug and play?

tblazer503

I recall surfing one day and came across a company that will give you a glass etching kit for 39.99 do it yourself with basically a acid paste with decal that is acid resistant... can't remember the name off hand, though. BTW, I also had that problem when I bought my 00 civic ex. I pushed back and they eliminated it. They do it to all their cars, and it "costs" that 380 to register the number witht the company. If you don't want it registered, you still have the etching... how do you tell which ones are registered and which ones aren't? you are supposed to put a sticker on the window(like the etching doesn't give it away) but other than that, no way to tell a real etching from a fake one. No break in insurance either.
The one thing that really irritates me is when a dealer starts talking about a "service" and waaaaay at the end, tells you that it costs 2000.00 for 36 months of coverage(chevy dealer for paint and interior coverage) I was starting to think it was part of GM's bumper to bumper plan... was thinking, dang these guys are getting really good about their warranty.. nope, just add on. It's even more offending when they call you stupid for not buying the extended warranty. When I was going to buy we were almost done and he called me stupid for not buying the extended warranty. Then I asked him if they would give me fair trade on the vehicle plus the 3800 for the extended warranty if I traded it in @ 30mos and 30k. He said no, and I asked why not. Because I used the extended warranty during the 30mos even though GM has a bumper-to-bumper warranty? hmmm... Wasted my time. Next dealer was sad, but at least didnt call me stupid. =o)

tblazed

I guess no one knows for sure or you would have an gotten an answer the first time you posted the question. Anything's possible - but why? With all the reports of erratic operation of the auto climate control I am thankful I have the manual system. Also you would probably have to do more than just replace the control head. Likely have to install temperature sensors in the ducting or in the interior somewhere too. I would almost bet money it is interfaced into the vehicle computer thru the serial bus that interconnects everything too. You need to find someone with a service manual to study (or buy one from Helm Publishing for $120) and compare the wiring schematic diagrams between the two types of systems to see what else would be involved. If you find someone with a manual I would like to get the DRL wiring diagram!

tblazed

I needed a good laugh! I can see it now "Hello XYZ Etching company, this is Joe Friday with the Metro Police. Do you have these windows we found at this chop-shop REGISTERED??" Give me BREAK!!! ANY police dep't can run a VIN! Sheesh! They told my friend he would get a discount on the comprehensive part of his insurance. NOT!

ficuss

I think some are missing the point of etching glass. It is to serve as a deterent to stealing glass etched with a particular vin number. Insurance companies and body shops they refer have been caught using stolen parts to repair damaged cars. They certainly can't use glass that is etched with someone elses vin number. If they can't use the glass, they may not steal the doors either. I recall reading a few years ago that a man in Ohio? brought his car in to have doors that were stolen replaced. When he got the car back he noticed markings on the new doors. They were his markings. They were his old doors which had been stolen from his car. There is no market for glass which has been etched. No market should mean fewer thefts.

Frank