Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

envoyenvy

Toe spec is one of the specs for front end alignment. Doubt dealer will cover under warranty unless it is within the first couple thousand miles. Yours is probably in spec anyway if you don't have abnormal tire wear. My Envoy doesn't have vague steering for a truck, maybe for a Porsche...

quickdtoo

Doubt it, the design of the front axle thru the pan would make for engineering problems, plus the fact that the market for an expensive suspension lift just isn't there, no lift maker, the last time I checked, was even in the design stage. Front coil spacers are the best hope so far for a mild ~1" lift, when I find em, I'll post. You can add the "shield kit" as GM calls it for ~$140, which consists of a steel radiator skid plate, a plastic oil pan shield and a plastic fuel tank shield. tim

snapshot7

I looks like there won't be a offroad capable TB coming from Chevy anytime soon.

I contacted Chevy Marketing and asked about the 04 models and beyond. They confirmed that Chevy has no plans to produce a ZR1 offroad type package for the TB.

It appears most TB owners would rather lower or put 22's on their TB's.

Oh well, my 96 Blazer has been pretty good and I really wanted to stay with an American car company but that is an option anymore.

The best vehicle for me appears to be the Toyota 4Runner.

nuyorkah

"What needs to be answered is that why does a fan need to be reprogrammed? In all of my life of building SB Chevys, I never had to program a fan."

The fan clutch is controlled by the computer(PCM).
However you do not need to reprogram after replacing the clutch.
I checked the service manual and also spoke to a Tech who happened to do one on an Envoy last week.

Here's how it works:
The electro-viscous clutch is controlled by the PCM. The PCM controls a solenoid that regulates a fluid pressure that controls slip of the fan clutch. Internal to the fan is a centrifugal fluid pump, solenoid, hall effect sensor, valve lever and a hydraulic fluid. There is two chambers for the fluid, these two chambers are separated by a valve lever. The first chamber is the storage chamber, which holds excess fluid. The second chamber is the working chamber. As the pressure of the fluid is increased in the working chamber the amount of slip the fan has is decreased. The position of the valve lever is controlled by an electric solenoid.

ficuss

nuyorkah, that is a very good explanation of how the fan works, but it leaves out "why" the fan works. Just because the fan is engaged full time doesn't mean the fan is defective. It could be one of many reasons. Everything from engine or tranny, temp. to air conditioning demand. I would certainly take this to the dealer to troubleshoot. They should at least charge only for the one defective part or control.
 One more reason to buy the extended warranty.

Frank

twinrotts

You have me anxious to do this highway test to see if I can notice the difference.
What I can testify too is that it will not adjust enough to compensate for an open window or sunroof. That is how I have tested it to date. I also know that as I go from around town to X-pressway conditions, I do need to increase the volume. It may be working, but not quite enough for my not as young as they once were ears

twinrotts

I experienced a throttle fluctuation condition this morning for the first time.
Started up as normal with Climate Control on. Tach began to wander between 1000 and 1500 RPM.
Started to drive and was actually able to detect some throttle surge as the tach continued to wander, Seemed to clear itself after a few minutes at 40-50 MPH. Has not done it again today.
Other cars I have had, had a noticable drag when the A/C kicked on, both at speed and idle. I have never sensed that on the TB but wonder if that was somehow causing today's situation.
Anyone else experience this?
I have from time to time had the low idle hesitation folks have mentioned in previous posts, but never to an almost stall condition. It feels more like a slight hesitation before the tach jumps from idle to a throttle signal.
I have always blamed this on my driving style which I would call very gentle at least from a dead stop.

hiddengold

I still don't think mine is working as when I get to 70 mph, I have to manually turn volume up. Did you ever check the volume level bars to see if they change? My don't. I'll try your test method.
Thanks

tblazed

Spend $150 on a fan clutch, as opposed to $1500 for a 2 year warranty extension with a deductible. Hmmm... did I miss somethin'?

tblazed

Today put on the Hotchkis suspension kit results are: much reduced roll in corners, ( and I have the std 16" tires) much more stable going down the road, much less side to side pitching and bucking. This is the way GM should have done it in the first place. Did it in the driveway in about an hour, did not have to jack it up or remove a lower control arm as the instructions called for. Excellent upgrade.

iexplore2000

FYI... the volume bars will not increase on the display panel when the adjustments are made in volume control. I guess all of this is done "behind the scenes."

Hopefully my test method will work for those interested in trying this. I tried it again today and noticed the difference. Also, you may want to take note that since the Bose setup does not have a MUTE button, I noticed that if I turn off my Auto Volume, I can lower the volume to a very LOW setting so that I can carry on phone conversations, etc. At first I used to get really frustrated with the simple fact that I could not get the volume to turn down REALLY low. Someone enlightened me to the fact that by disabling the auto vol gives you greater control of the overall volume control (hence making it very low).

Give this a try as well!

Good Luck,

IExplore2000

hillfla

Please excuse my ignorance but does installing the suspension kit void your warranty at all? It sounds like a really good upgrade and even though I am not mechanically inclined I can find someone to help me install it but I want to make sure that when I go to trade it in or sell it in a couple of years that there will be no problems.

Additionally, I will be installing it on a 4x2 Envoy with the locking rear differential. Would there be any problems to that?
Thanks

tb4me

Thanks guys--I did go the used route and spent $185 for the fan. The dealer did look at it and said it was the fan--and could do the job for about $600. I told the dealer of course no thanks. GMdirect had the new part for $386 and change. Now, wasn't there a post a while ago identifying a site for access to the technical service manual? Looks like I'll be under the hood this weekend!

tb4me

tblazed--your on target. I did not opt for the extended warrenty due to the amount of miles that I put on--I guess hindsight is 20-20. Actually this is the 1st time that i didn't take the extension. The 3 previous vehicles went well over 200,000 without problem--then I changed nationality and look what happens. Good lesson no?

4156

Why even replace the original fan with another expensive computer controlled unit. I'll bet a Chevy V8 truck fan hub will fit and work just fine. There may be a problem with the check engine light being set, but I'm sure someone could come up with a wiring solution to fool it.

tblazed

hillfla, the stabilizer bar and bushings reduce the amount of sideways roll it does turning corners and side-to-side sway and pitching going over irregularities in the road. Unless there was evidence that the aftermarket parts caused some other suspension part to fail there should be no warranty concerns. After the new rear bar gets dirty it would be hard to tell if it was stock or aftermarket (especially if you peel off the Hotchkis logo sticker). The stock bar is 24mm dia, the Hotchkis is 27mm. A far as the locking diff, I have that on mine. It acts like a normal differential until a certain amount of wheel slippage engages it to lock. Has nothing to do with the stabilizer bar.

4156, the reason it would not work, the computer looks for the fan speed signal from the internal Hall-effect speed sensor. If for example the computer is commanding it to engage at 50% and it gets an erroneous speed signal back, the computer will compare that fan speed signal to the engine RPM and the expected fan speed, and will set a trouble code if it's too far off. Actually the setup it has is very effective. It is being used on the 5.3 V8 too.

Re: extended warranty- if they extended it an additional 5 years, rather than just adding 2 years to the existing warranty, it would make more sense to me. They don't sell extended warranties to loose money on them. I personally have yet to have a situation in 36 years with a car or truck where a 2 year extention on a warranty would have done any good. I prefer to pay as I go, if needed.

4156

Don't care if a trouble code is set, as long as the check engine (MIL, SES) light does not turn on. That is where you experts come in if the code does turn on the light. Fool the computer so a much less costly clutch can be used if an out of warranty replacement is necessary.

tblazed

Therein lies the problem. It will turn on the SES light and might go into the Reduced Power mode thinking the fan isn't working. That varying speed signal from the orig fan clutch would have to be simulated to feed the PCM, frequency relative to the engine speed and percent duty cycle the clutch it is being turned on. BTW have seen several of these on eBay go for $75 or so. Might be a worthwhile investment, and if you never need it, sell it!

ross1962_99

The problem is that more and more women are buying SUV's to carry their kids and groceries to and fro. They are driving the SUV market right now, so almost all SUV's now ride on soft coil suspension. The other factor is the backlash from the Ford Explorer rollvers has driven the automakers to lower the center of gravity on their SUV's to reduce rollover risk.
I drive a TB, and formerly owned a '93 S10 Blazer, but wish it was more offroadable than it is.
The Toyota 4Runner always was a nice offroad vehicle, but a little underpowered. Well, as of the '03 model year, there's lots more power, but they put coils on that and lowered it as well. Ya just can't win!

nuyorkah

"nuyorkah, that is a very good explanation of how the fan works, but it leaves out "why" the fan works. Just because the fan is engaged full time doesn't mean the fan is defective. It could be one of many reasons. Everything from engine or tranny, temp. to air conditioning demand. I would certainly take this to the dealer to troubleshoot."

Considering he did bring it to the dealer I merely answered an installation question.

spdmtr5

The serious problem is the bogus muffler next to the spare tire.The TB isn't a rock crawler but with some care,factory skid plates and a posi rear differential mine has done the major passes in the Colorado San Juans.BTW those new motors in the 4runners drink premium fuel!

tb4me

Now with all of that said --and guys I really appreciate it--do the Techs have the training to diagnose the operational components of this fan and recommend to their supervisors a less costlier and accurate fix? Rather then---change the fan? Gosh--I see a gold mine here if I were to go to a GM training clinic. Sorry but I'm a back yard classic car enthusiast that has had no problem with dual points!

4156

tblazed, did the original front stab bar bushings look very worn when you removed them to install the Hotchkis units? I am interested in this upgrade myself. Did you purchase directly from Hotchkis? Can I assume that no one else makes a rear stab bar upgrade at this time.

aldan93

Spend 30k on a truck and complain about a couple hundred dollar fan? I spent over $100k on a house and have put in at 7K in two years!!!! I'll never understand? I also have a hangnail on my thumb, just thought you should know, But I don't want to buy the $1.99 worth of band aids, anyone have an alternative? Tape?

stever

You can plan and save for the big budget items like cars and houses. Nickel and diming for unexpected repair costs drives me nuts. Keep kluging Tb4me! ;-)

Steve, Host

rainers

My dealer is trying to sell me a 3rd party from API instead of GM. I looked around the web and found WarrantyDirect.com.

Does anyone have any history with this outfit or any opinions?

stever

Check the Featured Discussions This Week links on the main Town Hall entry page.

Steve, Host

paulyjsob

I have a 2003 Envoy. At times the engine almost stalls when I give it that initial gas. This happens fairly often when the car is in park or neutral. At a stand still it idles at about 7-800 rpm and when I give it gas, if falls to abouty 400 and then recovers. On occasion this happens when I merge pull out into traffic. That's a little scary. This problem is intermitant so ofcourse, the dealer can't duplicate it. Anyone have this problem and have a solution? Thanks!

tblazed

The original front bushings were in fine condition. Just a softer material. The replacements that come in the kit are a harder urethane type. I ordered it directly from Hotchkis.net. As far as another company making a similar kit, not that I am aware of, did look at Hellwig since I have had excellent service out of them in the past, they may be in the works coming out with something, but did not show up on their web site.

tblazed

My 2002 TB will do that too of I goose the accellerator in P or N. It might drop way down to 300-400 RPM and recover, and I can make it die doing that. A friends TB does exactly the same thing. Also it will not rev over 4000 or so in N. So I just don't do that.

However, it has NEVER exhibited such a problem during driving, in gear. That is scary. I'd be complaining all the way up the GM ladder.

spdmtr5

Have you ever investigated what would necessary to swap in a V8? The pieces must be there as they offer the 8 in the long wheelbase version.

ross1962_99

"Have you ever investigated what would necessary to swap in a V8?"

You'd have to be nuts. It's technically feasible for sure, but economically impractical. By the time you're done, you'd have spent enough to by a BMW or Lexus. Not that I wouldn't love to have the V8 in my TB. Nice engine!

tblazed

Not sure if it would be technically feasible either. Easier to wait a year, buy a wrecked Rainier, and swap out the whole drivetrain, front springs, wiring harnesses, PCM and BCM, whatever else is different, and figure out why it won't work when you get all the mechanical stuff done. Too bad GM plans to put "Displacement On Demand" in the 5.3 V8 in '05 - so much for possibly getting another short wheelbase Trailblazer someday with a V8. Wouldn't even consider an engine with DOD. A friends mother had a Caddy in the early 80's with that "feature" and it was a disaster. Put a Diesel in a Trailblazer, now you're talking.

brian211

Looking at the tb, explorer, envoy, endeavor, murano, pilot and highlander any recommendations? Its very confusing! All look good but which is the best vehicle? All are around 32k.

macman246

My '02 Envoy did the exact same stalling, usually when stopped at traffic lights. The dealer couldn't replicate the problem once warmed up, but found strange stuff on the data network. No error codes ever got recorded.

They replaced the ECM, BCM, throttle body, and a few other things the 6 times it was at the dealer. They could never fix it, so GM bought it back as a lemon. My Envoy is now somewhere in Kansas, probably with a washed title.

My advice: give them the 3-4 chances to fix it (per state law), then get a good lemon law attorney. Don't waste time going through the BBB or GM's Customer Assistance Center.

watchdog2

My 2003 Envoy also hesitates or stalls while in park or neutral too. Likewise, it does the same while driving especially when pulling off from a standstill. I did take it to the dealer however they were unable to duplicate. I took the service writer with me for a ride and he experienced the same thing to but said that my codes were all up to date. I took it back two weeks later because it was more noticable and a different service writer felt what I was talking about. But I was told this time that GM is aware of the problem however they do not have a fix now. That's unexceptable because I really like the vehicle. Sorry for the long post......

seiford

Just an update for those who also have this problem..

Background: When at a stop sign (tranny in drive, foot on brake) our '03 Envoy "stutters". Feels like the person behind us tapped our bumper. Noticeable little shake, no change in rpm.

Done so far: Have had it into dealer 8 times, escalated to GM Customer Service. GM divulged that it's a known problem and sent us a letter upping the transmission warranty to 100,000 miles and considered the problem closed. No fix available (yet). No estimate on when, how I'd be notified, etc.

BBB: GM Customer Service considered the issue closed since they increased our warranty. Not acceptable to us - GM said only escalation path was to go through BBB. That was a total waste of time. Their only resolution options for the manufacturer are for them to buy it back. We just want it fixed!

The Arbitrator agreed that we had a problem (I had a written log of the events covering over 2 weeks) and that it should be covered under warranty. But that it wasn't sufficient of a safety or value issue to warrant buy-back. Since they only do resolutions of "buy-back" or "no buy-back" it ended there. How about a "Hey manufacturer, stand behind your product and fix this thing!".

An acquantance of ours owns a Transmission shop and when we told him about the problem he said "Oh yeah, we see that all the time." He said the transmission is dropping in/out of drive - problem with the 'sprague' (?) gear. Requires a complete tranny rebuild. He speculates that GM knows that's the problem and doesn't want to rebuild all these trannies. He also bets that the transmission will eventually fail and GM is hoping some of them fail after the 100,000 warranty extention so they are off the hook.

So I have no other option other than taking it back to the dealer week after week until it's fixed.

Anyone been able to get this problem fixed?

elevatorguy

Anyone here seen, or using, the new Qwik-Snap VentVisors made by Auto Ventshade? I was looking for window visors online and came across these. They use no tapr and mount inside the window channel like the Weather Tech and EGR ones do. I would love to hear from anyone that knows anything about them. By the way, the item number I found on the net is 124212.

Thanks,
Todd

quickdtoo

While I haven't tried the Qwik-Snap VentVisors, I have used the std Ventvisors in the dark smoke on another vehicle. They are much darker than the Weathertechs which I have on my tb and on the previous vehicle. If you are aware of the increased blind spot at the "A" pillar these cause, the darker Ventvisors are not for you, as is the case with me, anyway. Just a heads up.

tim

tb4me

sieford--get a lemon law attorney--should work out for u fine--unless u wish to go the fix it route. If u do then good luck!

elevatorguy

How many people here are using the GM accessories bugshield? Does it use double sided tape at all or bumpers on the hood? How does it mount? I am looking for something that requires no drilling and prefer no tape or bumpers stuck on my truck. I am also interested in the quality. If anyone has any opinions and/recommendations for other bugshields, please post back.

Thanks,
Todd

ylab

Todd,

The GM bug shield uses a very strong and thick tape on the side wings and four or five screws which go into push-in retaining nuts in the center. There are small square holes along the underside of the hood and the 'nuts' push into these existing holes......no drilling required and takes all of about 15 minutes to install.

Best of all the GM deflector is nicely sculpted to the contour of the hood and looks really good on my White Envoy SLT.

Ray

aciampi

Just to give anyone thinking about ordering a new trailblazer a heads up. If you are planning on ordering it with the optional Navigational Radio you are going to have to wait until October the earliest before the order can even be processed. I have just recently found this out because GM cancled my order because they are not yet ready to be installed on the vehicles for whatever reason

d2000one1

I've seen 2004 Envoy's on the lot with the nav system. I'm not sure why there would be a delay for the Trailblazer

bradrx7

I just ordered the Hotchkis rear bar and bushings directly from Hotchkis. I asked if the kit was tested on a V8 EXT and they told me it would work fine. I'm going to put it on before I haul my track car from Houston to VIR next weekend and will report back. It would be great if the kit reduced the amount of wind buffeting I get while on the highway.

Also, I am VERY pleased with my new V8 EXT ( I traded an '02 LTZ for this one). I get better mileage in town and while towing (13.9 total) and range, plus the ride is super. I averaged 12.4 on my Labor Day trip to Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama. That trip included sitting in the paddock with the AC on for a couple of hours a day. THIS is a much better tow car than the I-6 SWB TB. MUCH better.

ross1962_99

"Looking at the tb, explorer, envoy, endeavor, murano, pilot and highlander any recommendations? Its very confusing! All look good but which is the best vehicle? All are around 32k."

Brian,
A big factor here could be if you plan on towing anything like a boat, or a trailer. If so, this narrows your choices to TB, Envoy and Explorer. All of those are "body on frame" construction. The remainder are "unit body" construction, which cannot tow as much.
After that it becomes a personal choice I think. I used to think Ford drivetrains were inferior to GM, but that may not be true anymore. I would just go drive them all to see which one you like best.

tblazed

You will definitely feel a difference in the stability going down the highway. I am still impressed at the difference in handling and stability with my TB. They did confirm the EXT-V8 has the same front bar set-up? Have seen reference to a bar that goes through holes in the frame rails on some version. On mine and I think most, the front bar mounts with 2 "U" brackets that bolt to the frame.

bradrx7

Tblazed asked: "They did confirm the EXT-V8 has the same front bar set-up? Have seen reference to a bar that goes through holes in the frame rails on some version. On mine and I think most, the front bar mounts with 2 "U" brackets that bolt to the frame. "

I just went out and looked, yes the front bar (man, is that thing big in diameter) attaches with two pillow blocks attached to the frame.

Glad to hear it helps with buffeting. I'll follow up with a report on its effect on towing.

jmcwhorter

I'm looking at buying an 03 Envoy. MSRP is right at 32000. How much of a discount should I expect to get on the vehicle. There is 3500 rebate right now. Are there any other discounts right now?

The dealers tell me that their invoice price has 2% built in for 'Advertising'. Is this BS? Will I have to pay for it? I think I should be able to get an 03 Envoy for atleast 1% less than the advertised Invoice price on Edmunds. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Whats everyone paying before any rebates?
Thanks
Jeff

stever

No matter what the dealer says the ad fees are or the office heating fees, etc. are, concentrate on your out-the-door price. That way you won't get sidetracked from the big picture.

Steve, Host