Ford Escape Hybrid

ateixeira

I guess they are trickling in, then.

-juice

gagrice

One per dealer this year. Kind of like a Franklin Mint one of a kind collector's item..;-)

Kirstie_H

A magazine reporter would like to interview anyone intending to buy a hybrid Ford Escape or Honda Accord. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, 10/01/04 with your daytime contact info and a word about your motivation.

grk701

I work for a German based supplier here in the good old USA that supplies many a component to the Big 3. To presume buying "American" supports only US suppliers, and that American manufacturers buy supplies from domestic companies only is simply not true.

ateixeira

With Globalization a reality it's impossible to tell.

-juice

gagrice

With Globalization a reality it's impossible to tell.

I would be very surprised a if ANY vehicle is 100% USA built.

PS
You live in Brazil? If so can you get me one of those Ford Ranger crew cabs with the 4 cylinder diesel? I took pictures of one that two fellows from Brazil drove to the Arctic ocean where I work. They averaged 45 mpg from the tip of So. America to the tip of North America. That's the truck I want...

Kirstie_H

A magazine reporter would like to interview anyone considering the new Ford Escape Hybrid. Please send your daytime contact info to jfallon@edmunds.com by Monday, October 4, 2004.

ateixeira

I am from Brazil, but I live in DC. Lost my little flag, how do I get that back?

Brazil gets the Ford EcoSport small SUV, smaller than the Escape and very efficient. Affordable, too. It's based on the Focus platform.

I guess an Escape would be considered at least mid-size in Brazil. Explorer, large.

-juice

ANT14

Ecosport is based on the Fiesta platform. I've been pushing to get that vehicle into the N.A. market, but the quality of the Brazillian plant in Bahia need to be improved before doing so. It's possible we might get the next generation of it.

ateixeira

I stand corrected.

Indeed, you can get a tiny 1 liter engine with a supercharger, and a manual tranny in it. They also sell a 1.6l and a 2.0l.

The passenger seat lifts up and there is a clever storage tray under it.

I have a brazilian car mag and they test a 2.0l, it hit 100kph in 9.7 seconds. Not bad.

-juice

Kirstie_H

juice, try updating your preferences - the flag used to link to your profile, but now I think you have to update your country in preferences. I think

ANT14

Juice,

Yes they have more engine options. If it makes it stateside, they'll probably implment the 2.0L or the 2.3L for consumer's taste.

There's other issues as well, like the UAW. They must undoubtedly have issues with bringing over such a car, so it's another hurdle to overcome.

ateixeira

Yup, it's no longer under profile, but instead in preferences/profile/country.

I should get a green/blue/yellow Brazil flag now...

-juice

stevedebi

There's other issues as well, like the UAW. They must undoubtedly have issues with bringing over such a car, so it's another hurdle to overcome.

Morelikely, it is the NA safety that is the problem. Cars have to pass crash tests, pollution tests, and (now) rollover tests.

ANT14

Those are easily rectifying. The vehicles are able to pass N.A. crash tests, and emissions is dealt with upon an engine upgrade. The main issue is UAW.

stevedebi

"Those are easily rectifying. The vehicles are able to pass N.A. crash tests, and emissions is dealt with upon an engine upgrade. The main issue is UAW."

Not every vehicle can pass the crash tests. These days vehicles are designed to safety standards. The Fiesta was designed in 1986! And it was only offered as a small hatchback. Anybody remember the Suzuki Samurai?

I remember back in the late '80s I was sent to Honduras with the USAF. Our Special Forces representative drove a 4 door toyota pickup. He also rolled it one evening, since it was terribly top-heavy. The point is that central and south america have different - lower - standards.

ANT14

The Mustang was designed back in 1979, and to this date has ridden in the same basic "Fox" platform. Yet, throughout the generations it has improved safety wise where it's a 5-star performer in it's segment. The same senario with the CrownVic.

I'm familiar with the Fiesta and Ecosport engineering wise, and it shouldn't pose any issues. The only changes need to be made are a more robust bumper beams with additional bracing (since Europe mandates 2.5MPH bumpers, while 5MPH for the U.S.), and additional turn signal lighting.

The Fiesta platform of today is quite robust and does quite well in Europe's crash testing. The Fiesta itself can even pass U.S. crash testing if Ford were to import it, but again...U.A.W. The quality of the Fiesta is ahead of it's segment over in Europe, and befits cars costing $20K here. (then again, other demographics and consumer demands).

But the version we would receive in the U.S. would be shipped from Brazil, which as I stated, there's quality concerns in that plant. But it is capable of producing the needed allocation for the U.S., while being profittable at the same time.

f111d

Dealerships that want to sell the new Ford Escape Hybrid must send at least one service technician to a two-day training class. So far, 1,850 service-bay technicians have completed the course,
 This is header to a Subcribition only Automotive News.
   Two days is just enough to show the tech how to use the manuals. This all too common place and the reason so many owners are upset with dealers.
Not my idea how to introduce a new technology.
Paul

ateixeira

The Escape Hybrid was nominated for North American Car of the Year honors. Competition is fierce, though, with the new Corvette, Mustang, and 300C also in the running.

-juice

teeitup

Sunrise Ford in North Hollywood, CA just got their first Escape Hybrid in today. They are charging $5,000 over MSRP!

I am second on their waiting list, but the first person in line bought it. I'm going to check with other dealers in the area to see if they are doing the same thing.

baggs32

The paragraph below was posted on a dedicated Escape forum. I thought some of you might be interested and since I can't link to the thread this was the next best thing.

Now that I have logged 500 miles I am starting to get a feel for likes and dislikes. So far I love the fact that I can cruise at 30mph on battery only, I even mantained 40mph on battery for about one mile on my way home the other day. I have never been a fan of automatic tranny's due to shift points, so it comes as no suprise that I love the eCVT. The smooth and constant speed with out any shift points is a big plus for me. I have noticed that when I got on the gas that the rpm's are a little high for the speed I am going, but it is only for a small amount of the time, and as the power need drops the rpm's come down as my speed increases. While it does have the typical ride of an SUV it is way better than some that I have drove and/or ridden in. I am starting to get used to the engine coming on and off, to the point that there are times I have not noticed it. There is a very slight delay about a half second at most between the time I nail the gas and it takes off with that v6 like acceleration. It does take some time after it has sat awhile for the battery to charge up after initial startup. My first tank of gas I managed an average of 28mpg based on miles divided by gallons. The message center said 28.5mpg. It now reads 30.1mpg so on my next fill up I will compare again. Can't wait to get about 5k on her and see where my average stabalizes at. Only a couple negatives and they are more Escape than Hybrid. I would like the doors to automaticly lock at a certain speed. I would like daytime running lights. Standard rear floor mats would also have been nice. Other than that this is one of the best SUV's on the market IMHO. I took it to a spot at the beach where you can park up against a sand mound and tested it along the mound to see if I could get it stuck. For not being AWD it did great, I sure tried to bury it too. If someone is thinking about an Escape I would highly recomend this rig. The only compromise is the tow rating of 1000lbs. I climb a good hill everyday to and from work and it has performed flawless both when stop and go, and also wide open 70-80mph. I passed cars at freeway speeds going uphill with no lack of power. Can't wait to take her on her first Baja run. Now if I could only figure out what that little motor sound is when I unlock the doors....

Here's his pics so far:
http://www.salsbery.net/EscapeHybrid/Escape.htm

Another hybrid owner is posting there too but only had 15 miles on it as of yesterday so there wasn't much info there. I can post his/her first impressions too if anyone is interested.

toycash

I sure hope that that fuel economy improves with break-in. 28 mpg is the same as what my wife's RAV4 averages, and it's 4wd!

grk701

Yes, please post any other first impressions you see out there. Much appreciated.

xcel

Hi Toycash:

___I hope your wife and her RAV4’s mileage improves as well because I average ~ 28 in the 4,500 # Acura MDX and its 4WD w/ a ULEV-II rated 260 HP ICE!

___Baggs32, thanks for the info. Would you mind passing on the Escape site you found him posting on? I will try and contact this guy and have him post more info up on some other hybrid sites as well … His mileage in particular belongs in a particular Real Hybrid Mileage Database I know about :-)

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

baggs32

Remember that he only had 500 miles on the thing when he posted that. He's still averaging 8-10 mpg more than most Escape V6 owners. Probably more like 10-15 before break-in is over (about 1000 miles it gets much better with the V6).

Wayne,
I can't link you to the site but here's the name, Escape-Central. Three hybrid owners post there now as another one was just bought yesterday.

uniongodess

I brought my Escape Hybrid and decided to find a place to talk about it. So I am here trying to see what other owners feel about it.

hongcho

> He's still averaging 8-10 mpg more than most Escape V6 owners.

Partly because FEH uses I4. I've heard the "power" is not really up to V6.

Hong.

baggs32

Now there's another owner over there! This one drives a 2003 Escape V6 and the Hybrid is now his wife's vehicle. Here's his first post.

"Okay folks, hold on for the first ever in-family, side-by-side comparision of dueling v6 and hybrid escapes.

We just took the plunge for a titanium green 4x4 that was on the lot in Bellevue, Washington for most of this week. I have been loving a 2003 4x4 for exactly two years and 32,000 miles. We traded in my wife's 99 Acura CL, and she will be driving the hybrid most of the time, but it will be fascinating to compare them as well-seasoned escapees.

A quick note: I followed the hybrid home from the dealership tonight and had a little trouble keeping up with my wife, who is NOT known for a lead foot."

Hong,
His statement is right in line with the other owners. Those that traded their older V6 models in for the Hybrid have claimed that they don't notice a difference in power at all.

A FWD Escape with the V6 is rated at 20/25 by the EPA. The 2.3L model is rated at 22/25. That's 2/0 mpg better than the V6 according to the EPA. Both ratings are for auto trannies.

He's getting nearly 30 mpg on average before the thing is even broken in with V6-like power. If you're concerned about fuel mileage and like the Escape, those are pretty decent results so far if you ask me.

One other thing to note. A V6 Escape, and I know this very well because I've owned two of them, will average anywhere from 14 mpg to about 19 mpg before the first couple thousand miles while the engine is breaking in. Compare that to the break in mileage of the hybrid and the picture becomes a little clearer.

toycash

I find it hard to believe that an MDX will get that kind of mileage, especially since its only rated at 23 on the highway by the EPA.

My point was that compared to similar class vehicles, that is no improvement in mileage. Even if it improves with break-in, it won't be a substantial increase, especially if you consider the much greater cost for the hybrid, and no rebates.

xcel

Hi Toycash:

___Believe what you want or don’t … Fortunately, I always have plenty of proof in case anyone asks. And yes, if you want to take a swipe at Escape HEV drivers and their fuel economy, I believe it is fair game to take a swipe at your wife’s fuel economy skills as well.



___I was at over 35 mpg for that particular drive before hitting a cold front ~ 100 miles from home :-(

___If this image doesn’t load for you, E-Mail me and I will pass on the exact thread url from Acura MDX.org where it is posted …

___My first tank commuting in the Ford Ranger XLT just last week (only 2,900 miles on her) was 35.5 mpg over 568 miles. The latest tank looks like it will be a lot closer to 40 mpg and maybe 625 - 650 miles range now that I have un-landscaped her for commuting instead of pulling 4,000 #’s worth of mowers around the neighborhood(s). The Escape HEV uses a very similar 2.3 and with the right pilot, 45 mpg should be pretty easy to hit imho.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___2000 Honda Insight 5-speed #203 - 92.5 lmpg

carbuff27

My wife and I just test drove the Ford Escape Hybrid up in the Santa Monica mountains. I really liked it, although the Subaru Forester XS gives you more for the money (with the exception of gas mileage).

Positives:

Full-hybrid electric power up until 25 mph-- very cool for a small SUV.

Acceleration is more than adequate for going up steep hills or passing on the highway.

Toyota differential in the Escape makes transmission gear shifts and switch from electric to gas engines smooth and undetectable.

Leather bucket electronically adjustable seats are much more comfortable than the cloth equivalent in regular Escape.

Negatives are the same as for a non-hybrid Escape:

Rear window wiper mechanism obscures view out rear window.

Speedometer, gauges and instrument buttons are primitive.

Event data recorder, “black box,” can be used against you in a court of law.

Roof rack maximum load is 100 lbs.

Towing is only 1000 lbs. in Hybrid version of Escape.

Despite a high ground clearance in the middle of the car, low angled struts and an exposed exhaust system are just waiting to get hit by a rock when driving off-road.

Rear seat headrests obscure view out rear window.

Fan noise too loud.

Climate control knobs primitive.

Automatic shifter is not ergonomic and hard to operate.

Hybrid version of Escape is overpriced compared to what other other hybrids on the market have to offer.

ateixeira

Just for reference, the Forester can tow 2400 lbs and carry 150 lbs on the roof rack.

For 2005 Subaru added throttle-by-wire and the 5 speed manages to get 23/30 mpg even with AWD.

When you consider that you can get one for less than $21k, about $7000 less than an Escape hybrid will set you back, well...you're not going to justify the Escape on the basis of TCO, that's for sure.

-juice

larsb

Looks like the Ford Crooks learned from the Toyota Crooks. Let the Frenzy Begin:

"In Los Gatos, longtime Ford dealer Steve Swanson said he's sold two Escape Hybrids so far, each with a $5,000 markup on top of their sticker prices that range from $26,970 to $28,595."

This is out of a news article posted here:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/9975294.htm

gagrice

Makes that tax deduction look kind of worthless eh? It is a shame. I cannot believe that people buying the hybrids are not interested in conservation. Then to have some greedy dealer gouge them seems un-American to me. Kind of like Starbucks selling water right after 9/11 for $5 a bottle. I will never go into a Starbucks for that very reason.

explorerx4

i have to agree that high line escapes are not great values. my wife has an '04 limited, which i don't think is a great value, but that is what she wanted.
what do you mean by primitive? if you mean the gauges and controls are straight forward, i agree.
i would say about 60% of the lower quarter of the rear glass is blocked by the rear headrests and wiper motor, or 15% overall. i don't 'view' it as a big issue. you can always remove the headrests.
many vehicles have 'black boxes'. they have been around for years.
a 100 lb rack capacity is pretty standard, as far as i know. it's good enough to hold a couple of bikes or a cargo box.
i don't have a problem with the column shift, although i hate the ignition key placement.

ateixeira

That's actually kinda low. A Tucson I drove recently could carry 165 lbs on the roof.

-juice

baggs32

That's actually kinda low. A Tucson I drove recently could carry 165 lbs on the roof.

The way I see it 100 lbs is right in the middle considering something like the CR-V only takes 75 lbs (or at least it used to) on the roof bars.

Which brings me to those bars. The Escape is limited to 100 lbs on those roof bars, which can be upgraded BTW, but you can still strap something heavier, like a mattress or a 6' tall Rubbermaid storage shed (roughly 140 lbs as I found out later), directly on the roof.

I strapped the former (full size mattress) to the roof without the bars and the latter to the bars before I knew how much it weighed. Both were short trips but I had absolutely no problems with either.

The basic bars on the Escape are made of some kind of metal and are actually quite rugged. Personally I think they are underrated to prevent morons (like me with the Rubbermaid shed) from pushing the real limit.

Kirstie_H

A reporter would like to interview someone who has recently purchased a Ford Escape hybrid. Why did you buy it? How do you like it?
Please send your daytime contact info and make/model to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, November 3, 2004.
Thanks!

explorerx4

75 kilograms?

larsb

ALREADY boosting output to meet demand - did they learn from the Prius fiasco?

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=566d2391eda92e8e

ateixeira

I'm talking pounds for those capacities, not kg.

-juice

rfruth

Boosting output or hurry up and wait ? - snip - DETROIT -- The fuel-sipping Ford Escape Hybrid SUV is likely to be in short supply for the 2005 model year.

Limited availability of nickel-metal hydride battery packs from supplier Sanyo will cap Escape Hybrid production at around
20,000 units in 2005, says Ford Division President Steve Lyons.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101092

mschmal

CLICK HERE er well down there a couple of lines

https://www.fleet.ford.com/products/rv_trailer_towing/2005/2005_T- railers.pdf

Mark

midnightcowboy

Wait a minute ... that's the same line that Toyota is using about the limited availability of the Prius.

If I were a competing battery manufacturer to Sanyo, now would be the time to strike!

YMMV,

MidCow

sherpadude

For those that are interested. I have been getting around 44mph around town, 34mph driving around 60-65mph and around 30.5 driving 70-75mph. The car has been great so far - though the navigation system still cannot see the sats. The dealer is fantastic though (valley ford in westwood NJ) and should have the part in this week.

I should also add that they sold me the car at sticker and have been very honorable people to deal with.

let me know if you have any questions I would be glad to answer them.

gagrice

I have been getting around 44mph around town,

I'm assuming you mean 44 MPG around town. That is great mileage. Far exceeds the EPA estimates.

intm0005

The line should sound the same as Toyota, considering its the same battery bought from Toyota's supplier (who Toyota owns a share of in true Japanese kiretsu [sp?] fashion).

Since Ford bought the whole hybrid system from Toyota, I would bet you won't see a significant boost in Escape production until Toyota can take care of Prius and the hybrid Highlander and RX.

ANT14

The battery packs are supplied by Sanyo which capacity is capped at 20,000.

Ford didn't buy the whole hybrid system, they got licensing to use some of 20 patents Toyota acquired. Some other licenses were acquired from Continental-Teves and Sanyo which Ford used, moreso than Toyota's licenses.

rustyb

Hi Sherpadude!
What was the wait for your Escape Hybrid when you went to the dealer ?
Thanks !!!

baggs32

Mazda announced on Tuesday that they are working on a hybrid version of the Tribute. That means all three of Ford's small SUV's will have a hybrid version in the near future.

The hybrid Mariner goes on sale next year IIRC, and the Tribute will go on sale as soon as they can get it done.

FWIW Mazda is also working on a hydrogen RX-8 as well as a hybrid RX-8. The latter will run on electricity and either a gasoline rotary or a hydrogen rotary. Interesting.