BMW 3-Series 2006

shipo

I will of course have to step in here with my standard opposition to the premise that AWD is a panacea for winter driving. AWD will certainly enhance acceleration and hill climbing ability for any vehicle regardless of whether it was designed initially as FWD or RWD, and there is even some evidence to suggest that under certain conditions, AWD will enhance the vehicles' ability to turn in spite of its extra weight. The flip side of course is that there is indeed that extra weight which negatively affects turning in other scenarios as well as extending the braking distances.

In the Car & Driver test their summary said the following:

So What's the Bottom Line?
Four-wheel drive helps get cars going. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low traction surfaces, the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment. Folks who live in hilly places that get snow may need the climbing capability of four-wheel drive. If it snows a lot in those hilly places, they should probably invest in winter tires, too. Even flat-landers who happen to have steep driveways may wish to consider a four-wheel-driver.

Almost everyone else will most likely be better served by using winter tires. Acceleration takes longer, but in an emergency, the handling behavior and improved lateral grip of two-wheel drive and winter tires -- in the slippery stuff -- are the safer bets.

The simple fact is that even though one may not want to deal with a twice per year tire swap, doing so is the single best way to be able to navigate the winter season, even more so than spending the money on AWD.

Best Regards,
Shipo

gordonwd

I will of course have to step in here with my standard opposition to the premise that AWD is a panacea for winter driving.

But in a comparison of vehicles with the OEM all-season tires, I can definitely state that my A4 Quattro was noticeably better in the snow than my 325i is. And in fact both cars happened to have Goodyear Eagle RAs, so that makes the comparison even more even.

The 325i will undoubtedly be better when I eventually get a set of real winter tires for it, but there are a lot of people who just don't want the hassles of changing wheels/tires twice a year, finding a place to store the alternate set, etc. For them, AWD might make good sense.

Another place that I used to have fun with the A4 was in rainy, wet pavement conditions. Once in a while, I sink back into immaturity and want to out-drag the guy next to me at a light, especially if he's driving a competing type of car. On wet pavement I could really nail the throttle on my 1.8T and the Quattro would sort out the traction and GO, while anyone next to me in RWD or FWD would be in wheelspin city, regardless of their tire selection!

mschukar

I find the "safety of AWD" marketing a joke; how many accidents have you been in because you had trouble going? AWD doesn't do anything for stopping.

Get a set of winter tires and really improve safety.

-murray

arizonajoe

BMW was the pioneering automaker when it came to full iPod integration a couple of years ago. But the new-gen 3-series lost this feature - a step backwards. Now all we have is an aux audio port. Does anyone know if full iPod integration for the 2006+ models is coming soon??

kdshapiro

At this point in my life AWD would be the way to go. IMO, I find AWD 'without snows' to be safer than RWD with snows - having had extensive experience with both. That is my $.02.

blueguydotcom

Plug in my ipod and i'm set. What more do I need?

mschukar

At this point in my life AWD would be the way to go. IMO, I find AWD 'without snows' to be safer than RWD with snows - having had extensive experience with both. That is my $.02.

By what measure is AWD safer? You've got me on experience since I've never owned an AWD car, but every car I own here in Wisconsin will have winter tires as needed.

Just curious.

-murray

kdshapiro

"By what measure is AWD safer?"

By what makes me feel safer. I would think it would actually be very difficult to "prove" one is in fact safer or more unsafe. The last snow we had, I felt very secure in the AWD, but I saw a number of accidents involving ironicly only Hondas.

With AWD it's much easier to compensate for the additional weight of the drivertrain in stopping the vehicle, than getting out and pushing if one is stuck.

mschukar

I would think it would actually be very difficult to "prove" one is in fact safer or more unsafe.

Actually, stopping distance is a very real measure of safety. Winter tires win this one easily.

The last snow we had, I felt very secure in the AWD, but I saw a number of accidents involving ironicly only Hondas.

Feeling secure and being secure are two different things. IMHO, people with AWD drive faster because they lose sense of how bad the conditions really are. I always goose it a bit to get a feel for the road and adjust my speed appropriately.

With AWD it's much easier to compensate for the additional weight of the drivertrain in stopping the vehicle, than getting out and pushing if one is stuck.

Do you really think you DO compensate when you feel secure?

Honestly, how many times have you actually been stuck? For me, the last time was when I was in high school fooling around with my friends. FWIW, I'd rather have to get out and push than give the insurance company a $1000 deductible check, let alone the risk of injury.

-murray

0audilicious0

Another factor to consider in the cost argument is the insuance premiums

My insurance company actually charges a higher rate for an AWD car than a FWD/RWD car, as "you are more prone to drive it in hazardous conditions."

Gotta love insurance companies....

kdshapiro

"Feeling secure and being secure are two different things. IMHO, people with AWD drive faster because they lose sense of how bad the conditions really are."

You are correct, there is really no way to prove how secure one really is, anytime, anywhere, any road condition. Security on the road is just an illusion, it's the sense of the security that matters, the instinct that inside says we are secure.

The problem I have with the second part of your statement, is it's just a gross generalization.

"Actually, stopping distance is a very real measure of safety. Winter tires win this one easily."

But being able to measure and actually having this play a significant statistical role are two different things. My common sense tells me, if there were really an issue almost every AWD would be crashing their car in the snow.

Do you really think you DO compensate when you feel "secure?"

Absolutely.

"Honestly, how many times have you actually been stuck?"

Ok. With FWD drive cars twice as long as I can remember and either I pushed or other motorists came to my aid. With RWD with snows, once, but I had a heck of time on a number of steep and hilly roads that I had to back down and find alternate routes. With AWD/4WD zero. I was able to make it everywhere, except where the snow came up over the bumper.

mschukar

Security on the road is just an illusion, it's the sense of the security that matters, the instinct that inside says we are secure.

I guess that statement pretty much sums it up; crash tests, measureable stopping distances, maneuverability tests, etc. are all "just an illusion", all that matters is your "instinct that inside says we are secure".

You keep your illusion of security, I'll keep my winter tires

-murray

kdshapiro

"I guess that statement pretty much sums it up; crash tests, measureable stopping distances,"

I hope you never get into an accident, but getting into one would mean you really weren't secure, were you? For if you were really secure you wouldn't have gotten into a car crash. All of the metrics you cited are great, but they don't protect you from dying on the road unfortunately.

At any rate, I'll keep my AWD, you can have your snow tires.

nyccarguy

Howard says you should be able to get his channel on the internet (if you're a SIRIUS subscriber) by sometime in June. They also just started broadcasting his show repeatedly (along with the wrap up show and news) on one channel. I heard one segment this AM on the drive to work and a completely different one on the way home. Is there still time to change your order?

blueguydotcom

Nope, the car is on it's way to the delivery center. I can always add it aftermarket or simply hookup a cheap system in my house only to get the show online.

Thanks for the info though!

skd1

In the previous generation cars, BMW offered iPod integration such that yu could control song selection using your steering wheel control for one. I hope you don't try to select songs on your iPod while driving.

blueguydotcom

If you're talking about ipod your bmw, that integration was flat out garbage compared to dension's ice link. No comparing the two. The Dension is in a different league.

As of right now Dension doesn't have a solution for the e90 and neither does BMW. The wiring harness and electrical system used in the e90 is far more complex than the e46's setup so both are playing catch-up to create a new ipod control system.

As for out of the box, the aux input is fine. Plug the ipod into the aux port, attach a griffin airclick and then close up the ipod. With the airclick's tiny RF remote attached to your visor you can change songs, stop/start...true no radio ID tags but for $40 you've got a basic solution that beats the blazes out of doing nothing. It'll work until Dension releases a new ice link.

FWIW, what would be such a big deal about selecting a song on your ipod while driving? Is that really any different than clicking up and down on your wheel and glancing at the radio screen You're distracted either way?

arizonajoe

The aux doesn't charge the iPod like full integration solutions do. Nor does it allow you to control the iPod through the stereo interface - either on the dash or via the steering wheel. Lastly, with full integration, you can put the iPod away somewhere like the glove compartment and forget about it.

bdr127

The aux doesn't charge the iPod like full integration solutions do. Nor does it allow you to control the iPod through the stereo interface - either on the dash or via the steering wheel. Lastly, with full integration, you can put the iPod away somewhere like the glove compartment and forget about it.

On the E90, there is a DC power outlet right next to the aux input, so you can certainly charge it right there. As for being hidden away, the center console certainly has plenty of room for an ipod... even the "big" version.

blueguydotcom

not sure what the problem is...Dension doesn't have a new version of the ice link out. Beyond moaning about it, what more can we do?

330xi06

I choose the 2006 xi 330 because having owned the 2002 325 xi. I couldn't live without it for the rare times it does snow here, you can't live without it. Plus, AWD in wet weather, we haven't begun to address that factor or when your tires might be leaving the road during cornering, DSC takes over and applies more torque to the wheel that is in more contact with the road under AWD. Can't say that RWD does that now can we. :shades:

mschukar

when your tires might be leaving the road during cornering, DSC takes over and applies more torque to the wheel that is in more contact with the road under AWD. Can't say that RWD does that now can we.

Personally, I'd prefer that DSC slow the car down if the tires are leaving the road rather than try to maintain or increase speed.

You bring up a good point, though. There are generally just a few days a year where I would find AWD useful. If I lived in the mountains or further north, I would have AWD with winter tires, but around here, winter tires are much less expensive and more than adequate.

-murray

arizonajoe

blueguy asked what the problem is. The problem is that BMW went backward just as lesser makes are going forward. It's almost as if BMW abandoned the whole iPod integration program. I had asked if anyone knew if BMW is going to plug the gap or not - my post was a question, in hopes of an answer...

bdr mentioned that there is enough room in the console to stash the iPod. This is no good, since without full integration (stereo controls), you need to have access to the iPod to control it - you can't stash it, you need it out. I don't want to fiddle with an iPod while driving.

I don't want to juggle CDs anymore.

wco81

It would be cool if they just put a slot in with a dock connector so you can slide your iPod in.

These days, there are so many accessories with the dock connector and iPod is becoming the de facto digital audio player...

Oh and you can listen to Stern on an iPod. It won't be live of course. But since the shows are over 4 hours, you don't have to worry about fiddling with it while driving to change tracks.

blueguydotcom

The e90 comes with the aux input built-in, so in some ways it's a step forward. Anyone with any mp3 player can plug in and play music. Like I mentioned already, get a griffin RF remote and you can put the ipod down and just click the remote to move through tracks. That's a far cheaper and simpler approach than the insanely overpriced Ipod Your BMW option for the E46.

Eventually Dension will have a new Ice Link and then you'll get your integration. Scosche is also coming out with a device that will marry your ipod via bluetooth to the radio and your cell phone. When you get a call, it'll pause your ipod. Very sweet...

cambro

I've recently bought a volvo C70, which i chose over the BMW 330 cabrio b/c I really like the hardtop cabrio look. But on a volvo board I found this link which contains a picture & video of what I think to be the next 3 series cabrio. It's the same style top as the VW Eos (also made by same company) & looks like it'll be awesome.

Happy downloading!!

http://www.openairsystems.com/company/en/3922.html

nkeen

On a trip to Montreal a couple of years back I was surprised to see how many RWD BMWs there were. That, coupled with comments from others lend me to believe it's manageable with appropriate tires. I did not test drive the Xi, but you do gain several hundred pounds, lose around 1/2 sec 0-60 and, I'd bet, significant handling sharpness relative to the RWD SP, which is a delight to drive fast on back roads.

mschukar

I did not test drive the Xi, but you do gain several hundred pounds, lose around 1/2 sec 0-60 and, I'd bet, significant handling sharpness relative to the RWD SP, which is a delight to drive fast on back roads.

IIRC, the Xi adds an inch or two to the height of the car. This most certainly would affect handling.

-murray

bdr127

IIRC, the Xi adds an inch or two to the height of the car. This most certainly would affect handling.

Nope... The i and xi have exactly the same exterior and interior dimensions, which includes ride height.

dhanley

The xi sport package doesn't lower the height of the car, as it does is RWD version.

AWD is wayyyyyy oversold. Having a set of snow tires is superior in almost every way to awd+all seasons.

shipo

"Nope... The i and xi have exactly the same exterior and interior dimensions, which includes ride height."

Not exactly. True the non-SP "i" models have the same suspension as the "xi" models (regardless of whether they are SP or not), however, the geometry has been changed a little bit and as such, the "xi" models do indeed have a higher ride height, or at least, so says BMW. As for the "i" models with the SP, that setup is indeed both different components and a lower ride height as compared with the non-SP equivalent.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bdr127

Not exactly. True the non-SP "i" models have the same suspension as the "xi" models (regardless of whether they are SP or not), however, the geometry has been changed a little bit and as such, the "xi" models do indeed have a higher ride height, or at least, so says BMW. As for the "i" models with the SP, that setup is indeed both different components and a lower ride height as compared with the non-SP equivalent.

None of the BMW documentation says anything about a different ride height and the documented dimensions of each car is the same. I can't find anything anywhere that even lists the actual right height measurement of either car, for that matter!

shipo

I called BMW-NA a year or so back and got this information directly from them. Is it absolutely correct? Sorry, I cannot certify that as my brain didn't register the actual measurements. FWIW, I think that I've seen the numbers in some documentation somewhere since then. I'll sniff around and if I find it, I'll post the numbers and a reference to the source.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bdr127

FWIW, I think that I've seen the numbers in some documentation somewhere since then. I'll sniff around and if I find it, I'll post the numbers and a reference to the source.

Cool... It'd be nice to know for sure, one way or the other.

kyfdx

Well... just from eyeballing it, the Xi seems to ride higher, with more room between the tire and wheel well..

I can spot them, before I even see the badge on the trunk..

Maybe I'm psychic? :surprise:

nyccarguy

it isn't as noticable on the E90s, but I can tell an E46 xi from far away.

kyfdx

Oops!! You are correct... forgot what thread I was in...

Yeah... the E46 is easy.. Can't say the same about the E90.. In fact, I rarely see them... (or, just don't notice)..

calif65gm

From the e90 Product Info book, the heights are:

i w/o SP 55.9 inches
i w/SP 55.3 (0.6 inches lower than an i w/o SP)
Xi 56.1 inches regardless with or w/o SP

dl7265

It is .8 higher.....

DL

dl7265

That's what im talking about , bluetooth the integration, forget all the hacking ....

Talking about being behind, last I checked MB was still providing a cassette deck as standard equipment .. :mad:

DL

bdr127

From the e90 Product Info book

What is the "product info book"? Not the brochure, I presume?

sporting

I really like the sport seats and steering wheel,however, some dealers tell me it makes no sense to install the sports package on 325xi since with the tires in the package I will loose the snow performance that I am looking for.

Any thoughts?

bdr127

I really like the sport seats and steering wheel,however, some dealers tell me it makes no sense to install the sports package on 325xi since with the tires in the package I will loose the snow performance that I am looking for.

The dealers you are talking to don't know what they're talking about....

The sport package on the xi doesn't include the performance tires as it does on the regular i. The wheels on both the 325xi and 330xi sport package are 17" wheels, but the tires are all-seasons.

It doesn't have the typical "sport" suspension as on the i, either... the xi has its own variant.

The other two things the sport package on the xi includes is the 3-spoke sport steering wheel and the sport seats with the large side bolsters and adjustable thigh support.

sporting

Thank you for you input, so in your opinion I should not have any trouble with snow if I get xi with Sports package?

I am really undecided...

shipo

If you REALLY want good winter control, there are many who believe (me included) that a RWD car with winter tires will give you less "trouble" than an AWD car with All-Season (or No-Season depending upon your point of view) tires. I posted as much just a few days ago:

shipo, "BMW 3-Series 2006+" #5836, 12 Mar 2006 7:39 pm

If you absolutely feel you MUST have AWD, you should (IMHO) still consider winter tires so that you can add turning and stopping to the list of things your car can do well in the slippery stuff.

Best Regards,
Shipo

calif65gm

Production Info book is what they use for "sales training". Provides some answers to questions that buyers may have about the e90 and about competitors' vehicles.

agbasher

I have been researching the 330xi and noticed in the BMW brochure that it is the only iteration of 3-series that does not have 2 safety features:

1. seat-mounted front side-impact airbags
2. front passenger seat-occupation recognition with passenger's airbag off indicator

Do these absences make the 330xi less safe than the other versions?

Thanks
agbasher

calif65gm

No all 3's have them. It's discussed in the Product Info book. Also I just checked my sticker and the seat-mounted airbags are mentioned under the Standard Features section.

potemkin

When did you last check? I'm too lazy to check other MB's, but according to mbusa.com the C230 Sports Sedan comes standard with an in-dash CD player.

Link

bg31

Brake pads warning light came on just after my 4 years warranty expired. Do I have to go to BMW Dealership to redo my brakes since independent shops (Merlin Muffler and brakes) would do the job considerably cheaper. My question is if I don't go to BMW dealer, would brake pads warning light stay on on the dashboard? Thanks for any attention!