Hybrid Honda Accord

speedy13

finaly moving up

About time they offered a larger hybrid, minivan suv etc.

dewey

You got me interested about the manual transmission! Where did you read this info? Last year I was interested in buying a V6 Accord sedan but lost interest when I found out manual was unavailable (only available on the coupe---not practical for my family needs)
I would be a potential buyer of a HCH with manual depending on the price. I would avoid it if it was 5k Cdn$(3.6kUS$) higher than an equivalent gas model. I guess I am more frugal than environmental!

Kirstie_H

dewey, I suspect there are a lot of people out there like you - I know I'm the same. I would like a hybrid, but I won't buy one until it becomes economically worthwhile for me to do so. So, hopefully we'll see the price difference drop as the technology becomes more widely available.

robertsmx

Equivalent gasoline model will not have the torque and power, and potentially features, of the Accord Hybrid. So, some of the expected premium ($2-3K USD would be my guess) can be justified by way of that.

jchan2

for hybrids should come down as the Japanese learn how to mass produce them efficiently and inexpensively. And I hope they pass along the production savings by mass producing hybrid engines (maybe 200,000 per year) to the consumer and make it say, just $995 to upgrade to the hybrid.

blackheath36

The Honda dealers still deny the very existence of the Accord hybrid, for understandable reasons. I'm trying to make an old car last until the hybrid becomes available, but something else falls off each day. Anybody got any recent information about when I can get one?

backy

Do you mean they deny it is available right now (true) or that it will exist at all (not true)? You might try calling or e-mailing Honda's customer service department to see what the "official" story is on availability.

dewey

Several months before Toyota introduced its new 04 Prius they blitzed the media about their revolutionary vehicle. Similarily Ford is doing the same with its Hybrid Escape.

It is close to the date of intro for the Hybrid Accord, but there is hardly any Honda advertisement their new vehicle.

Personally I like the Toyota/Ford approach versus the Honda approach. Pre-advertising really builds up the excitement level for a new vehicle!

Per

oldboy

This is their style. While it would certainly be welcome for us to have more information, this gives Honda more flexibility to modify their new cars before presenting them for sale. Given the fact that hybrid cars are in such demand, Honda probably figures that they can sell as many of the new hybrid Accords as they can produce, without any advertising cost at all! Still I expect that they will do some advertising closer to production date.

robertsmx

...is Honda way.

I guess the company prefers to let the product make the noise, rather than advertisements. The same philosophy is reflected in Honda commercials. I don't remember seeing a Honda/Acura commercial mentioning another brand, but many (including Toyota) use Honda as a "target" in theirs (and directly). It is just a difference in approach to doing business.

This also reminds me of an amusing situation, shortly after Target-Ganassi (CART) had switched to Toyota engines after several years of championship success with Honda engines. Toyota used the Target-Ganassi Champ Cars as advertisements at several auto shows (as if those Championship Champ cars were powered by Toyota!).

jchan2

Honda ads don't really say that their cars are better than the competition, they simply quote the media about what they say about a specific Honda. For example, the current Odyssey ad says that the Odyssey "got a five star crash test rating from NHTSA"

joules

Just found and read this thread. Couple of comments.
I bought my Insight 3 yrs and 32,000 miles ago, and am planning to hold my 99 Regal until the Accord Hybrid gets here for family travel. Every gallon of gas I use will not be there for some of our descendents. It will probably take 6 years at $2 bucks/per to get my "premium" back, after deducting Fed. tax deduction and State (VA)tax credit. Even if I trade it before then, I might have done my part in keeping us from having to sacrifice more of our soldiers to be sure that the gas is available. That isn't being an environmentalist, its being responsible.
Re: Post # 39: If electric is not usable for some reason, the ICE works alone, and you may need to gear down, and get poorer fuel economy, but you should get there.
General: Honda and Toyota should benefit from more hybrid choices because more batteries will be needed and sold, and price of batteries should drop with higher production volumes, which should reduce the up-front cost differential, which should increase sales volume...you get the picture. They have enough of a lead that they will sell all they can make for a long time, especially if price of gas stays >$2/gallon.
Defence of EPA (sticker) fuel economy (FE) numbers. Should be much more precise than any on-the-road numbers, and allow good comparison of emission and FE differences. Fuel economy numbers may indeed be higher than old leadfoot here gets on the road, but will be high for both hybrids and 'thoroughbreds'.
Finally, I realize many folks will balk at the up-front dollar premium. I would hope that we come to understand that the foreign oil may be costing us much more than just money.
joules

gouldn

I commute 90 miles a day, and my main commuter beater is a '94 Ford Thunderbird V8. I am interested in a smooth larger car (well ... larger than a civic) that gets better MPG, and the HAH seemed just the fit.

I find the discussions interesting .. and I see that on a financial basis, the hybrid doesn't make total sense ... it will go for at least MSRP, and carry a premium versus the standard V6. Even at $2.50 a gallon, it would take awhile to make up the difference. I want to be an early adopter of a green technology, and I'm impressed by companies that take a chance on hybrids.

So I decided to put a deposit down ... except that the dealers are not taking deposits yet .. in fact they know almost nothing. Has anybody had any luck in getting on a list yet?

jchan2

Also, for every Hybrid on the road it reduces our dependance of foreign oil from Saudi Arabia.

rfruth

As was said Honda doesn't like to show their cards, I did see a preview of the hybrid Accord on autosite.com from last Feb. - snip - Preview: 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid By Thom Blackett Photos courtesy of American Honda Written: 2/26/04
http://www.autosite.com/Previews/2005-honda-accord-hybrid.asp

rfruth

What am I saying, there's mention of the hybrid Accord here on Edmunds.com
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2004/honda/accord/100377588/preview- .html?tid=edmunds.f.mmindex.content.num1.5.honda*

jchan2

that's always good. Edmunds also mentions the 05 Odyssey but provides little information. I'm sure the same goes for the Honda Accord Hybrid.

nowakj66

Is Honda expected to put variable cylinder management on non-hybrid Accord v6s for increased mileage in 2005?

jchan2

Nobody knows. All I know about the 05 Accord is that side curtain airbags will be standard. Heard it from Dateline.

xcel

Hi All:

___A fellow Euro Insighter had a long discussion with the Honda folks at a show over in the UK the other day and VCM is supposedly going to be part of the Insight II in some fashion if it comes about? I don’t know what they mean by a VCM with a 3 cylinder so I have to assume they are moving to 4 and using VCM to increase fuel economy?

___Anyway, a 4 w/ VCM sounds promising for the entire Honda line and not just the V6’s if what he was speaking of is any way close to factual coming from a few car show reps?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

jchan2

do you have your proof? is this over the internet? I was just wondering.

midnightcowboy

The rumor is that it will be on ALL Honda v-6s and improve the highway mileage 10-15% to 33-35 mpg Highway.

midnightcowboy

The Insight II rumor has been on temple of VTEC and Insight web sights. I am surprised Edmunds hasn't picked it up yet on the future autos section.

robertsmx

I doubt Honda will add VCM to non-hybrid Accord V6 this year. The only non-hybrid V6 to get it this year appears to be Odyssey but I wouldn’t be surprised if the new RL gets it too.

ateixeira

Why waste money on advertising? Toyota can't keep up with demand for the Prius. Honda will probably have wait lists even without ads.

In fact, I bet they only advertise to score points with the green crowd.

-juice

jchan2

to let people know what a Prius, Accord Hybrid or Civic Hybrid actually is.

ateixeira

The 10% of people interested probably already know. Just the spillover from the customers on the Prius wait list might be enough. ;-)

-juice

jchan2

the press.

dewey

For all hybrids, I think the best advertisement would be the International sectional of any newspaper dealing with the Middle East. It appears the Iraqi insurgency is spreading to Saudi Arabia.

Not a very promising sign for future gas prices!

In addition the increased use of cars and expansion of high pollution industries in countries as China and India, should be a promo for cars with substantial emission reduction .

dewey

I am interested in the Insight 2. Please tell me some of the sites that have rumors about this vehicle.

Thanks

Sylvia

Please post Insight inquiries and messages in the Honda Insight discussion to keep things organized. We should see some news there shortly.

ateixeira

Good idea, dewey. Just put an ad right next to the oil barrel prices!

-juice

jchan2

just park a Honda Insight next to the gas station.

victor1

Honda has made the Civic Hybrid one that you can not notice the power transfer of gas to electric. Because the electric motor assists the gas unlike the Toyota Hybrid,that is a glorified golf cart,that has a electric with a gas asist.Also having a electric motor as a primary engen is not that wise because if you have a glich in the electic system then you are stuck there.Unlike the Honda that is a gas with a electric assist because if there is a glich (witch there has not been any)then you are not stranded and can get home or to help. But the transition is smooth in the civic. That is because of the state of art design of the transmition.It has two cones that are powered by a steel belt that runs up and down the cones making it a smooth and unnoticible shift.

john1701a

> Because the electric motor assists the gas unlike the Toyota Hybrid,that is a glorified golf cart,that has a electric with a gas asist.

Apparently, golf carts are quite impressive now! The electric motor in Prius delivers 295 FT-LB of torque or 0-60 in just 10 seconds. Better hold on to your golf clubs.

> if you have a glich in the electic system then you are stuck there

You are obviously not an engineer. The odds of an electrical system failure are dramatically lower than what even the most modern combustion engine can deliver. In fact, electric is so much more reliable it is in a league of its own.

JOHN

usbseawolf2000

" unlike the Toyota Hybrid,that is a glorified golf cart,that has a electric with a gas asist"

Then why Prius' gas engine is more powerful(hp) than the electric motor? Dude, you need to educate yourself. You will find my learning process posts in usbseawolf2000 "Honda Accord Hybrid vs. Toyota Camry Hybrid" Apr 17, 2004 6:08pm

Dennis

jchan2

Apparently, golf carts are quite impressive now! The electric motor in Prius delivers 295 FT-LB of torque or 0-60 in just 10 seconds. Better hold on to your golf clubs.

LOL.

tjsykes

Will the Accord Hybrid come in a manual/standard shift? My instincts tell me no, as the Accord V-6 is currently only available in an automatic. I am trying to decide whether to sell my Insight and buy the Civic Hybrid, or hold out for the Accord Hybrid. But if the Accord Hybrid is only available in an automatic, it is not for me.

backy

Actually the Accord V6 is available with a stick in 2-door form, but the question remains will Honda go to the expense of offering the Accord hybrid with a stick, when there are few Accords sold in the U.S. in that configuration.

dudleyr

Of course the stick will offer maximum mileage, and that is the point of a hybrid, but I still doubt they will offer one. I really don't see the big deal. It will get about the same mileage as the 4 cyl. stick Accord, but will cost more than the V-6 (most likely). Since the manual 4 is plenty fast for me, It would be a waste for me.

The people who want fast cars won't trust the hybrid, and the people who want max economy won't get that either. I would much prefer a 4-cyl hybrid, or the new Accord diesel that is available in Europe.

tlauro

I would agree...the hybrids out there are nice, but at a cost. The Fed Rebate hardly makes up for paying list or more...which I never would....and the overall gas savings...not worth it IMO. Especially once the warranty is over and you're stuck with a potentially high repair bill.

tlauro

From tests I've seen, the 05 Hybrid Accord is sticking with the 240hp V6. No improvement there It will also have Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) technology. My guess is for about $30k.

Illuminated steering wheel controls are the only change that have been announced, outside a color...Silver Frost Metallic and it will be offered on the Hybrid model only.

307web

"Potentially high repair bill" is a non-issue. The hybrids I've seen have much longer warranties on the hybrid parts than conventional cars.
I have not been keeping my previous cars for 8 years/80,000 miles and I wouldn't suddenly start that practice with a hybrid.
The main issue is up front costs are ridiculous when you compare the near-invoice price of a conventional car to the already higher MSRP plus markup on top of that price with many hybrids.
Even if the MSRP is only $1500 different, the total cost difference after discounts and markups are tallied could be $5000 or more.
At some point they will mass produce them to the point where they will discounted at the same level of any other car. At that point they will look attractive. Years down the road, a hybrid option might be $500.

ateixeira

The warranty covers the battery for something like 8/100, longer for PZEV states.

Also, it's not just good mileage, also consider these benefits:

* HOV lane access in some states (VA for instance)
* Sales tax exempt in states like MD (5% up to $2000)
* extended range
* torque down low, where it counts

If you buy the car in MD for $30k, there's a $1500 sales tax credit immediately, then if you commute to a job in northern VA you could drive HOV even alone, while others sit in traffic. And you'll likely go 700 miles on one tankful while others stop for gas twice as often.

You can't ignore those benefits, some are major.

-juice

jchan2

all those benefits are attracting me to the Accord Hybrid. (I'm waiting right now)

ateixeira

There are a few Priuses here at work. It's neat how they pull into a parking spot completely silently. You can sneak up on people.

A Lexus comes by and the racket is incredible, sounds like a busted chainsaw in comparison. ;-)

That kind of silence is another benefit.

-juice

307web

Even after any tax credits, it will still cost you thosands more to pay for a new Accord hybrid at full MSRP (and maybe additional markup on top of that) vs a new Accord LX or EX at about dealer invoice cost. The future gas savings won't make up for it.
You will have to decide what driving in HOV lane is worth to you.

robertsmx

Accord EXV6 costs more than Accord LX. Why?

It is a Win-Win situation for hybrids if MSRP (or something on top of it) happens. One, if there is a premium/no discounting, it would be obvious that people "want" them. If there is, then the price gap between regular models and hybrid will shrink, and would be easier to recover (monetarily).

rfruth

I was at my local Honda dealer in Houston today for some routine maintence on my '00 Civic, I asked a sales critter (& the guy at the parts counter) about the hybrid Accord, no printed material yet but from what I could gather there has been a lot of interest in it. Thank goodness people realize there is more important things than the price at the pump.

midnightcowboy

Where have you seen these tests on the 2005 Hybrid Accord? I have been looking dilligently and have not found any actual test results. Please post where you obtained the information.

Thanks,
MidCow