Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

corvette

Who are you calling old?!? 

Mr_Shiftright

Test drove a Mazda RX-8, in dark blue metallic, manual transmission (of course).

This was an extremely well kept car, a hoot to drive, and I'm interested. Dealer is annoying. I made an appointment for a PPI (you'd be nuts not to do a PPI on a Mazda RX-8) but dealer refused to hold the car for me until such time. Wouldn't even take a deposit, and kept repeating how the price is "firm".

Great. He can peddle it elsewhere. Did he think he was sitting on some kind of gold mine?

If the car is still there when the PPI comes up, I'll still take it to the shop.

I found the car to be very comfortable and handling and braking are first class for this class of car. It made my Mini feel old and worn out. (which, in fact, it is). Nice, smooth short-shifting 6 speed, and if you watch the rev counter, it moves along smartly. If you don't watch the rev counter, the car feels dead below 4000 rpm.

Nice new set of Michelins, nice paint, clean topside and under, and good service records.

Soooo, we'll see.

Not a car to buy in haste or in the heat of the moment. Someone else can roll the dice if they want it that badly.

Spoke with two Mazda rotary specialists of some renown, and they were both nice enough to assure me that I WILL have trouble with this car. I should count on it.

Well, yeah, okay. I can handle this.

benjaminh

Mr_Shiftright said:

....Spoke with two Mazda rotary specialists of some renown, and they were both nice enough to assure me that I WILL have trouble with this car. I should count on it.

Well, yeah, okay. I can handle this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5N-4JvVyk

Mr_Shiftright

No guts, no glory

benjaminh

These Junkyard Find picture essays from TTAC are strangely compelling. Here's the latest. Weird Japanese ad with Jodie Foster for this car.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/10/junkyard-find-1993-honda-civic-with-325k-miles/

"As the owner of a very battered fifth-generation Honda Civic, I’m always aware of examples of Honda’s 1992-1995 subcompact when I spot them during my junkyard travels. I see plenty of these cars with odometers showing better than 300,000 miles...."

benjaminh

I do really like the looks of the RX-8, inside and out. Notice how the shifter shape mimics the rotary engine. Redline 8500 rpm.

stickguy

There are little rotary symbols all over. Headrests too.

I test drove one when they first came out. Quite fun.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Test drove a Mazda RX-8, in dark blue metallic, manual transmission (of course). This was an extremely well kept car, a hoot to drive, and I'm interested. Dealer is annoying. I made an appointment for a PPI (you'd be nuts not to do a PPI on a Mazda RX-8) but dealer refused to hold the car for me until such time. Wouldn't even take a deposit, and kept repeating how the price is "firm". Great. He can peddle it elsewhere. Did he think he was sitting on some kind of gold mine? If the car is still there when the PPI comes up, I'll still take it to the shop. I found the car to be very comfortable and handling and braking are first class for this class of car. It made my Mini feel old and worn out. (which, in fact, it is). Nice, smooth short-shifting 6 speed, and if you watch the rev counter, it moves along smartly. If you don't watch the rev counter, the car feels dead below 4000 rpm. Nice new set of Michelins, nice paint, clean topside and under, and good service records. Soooo, we'll see. Not a car to buy in haste or in the heat of the moment. Someone else can roll the dice if they want it that badly. Spoke with two Mazda rotary specialists of some renown, and they were both nice enough to assure me that I WILL have trouble with this car. I should count on it. Well, yeah, okay. I can handle this.

Year? Miles? Price?
Did the specialists specify the expected problems?

tbirdmarco

 Nice car Mr. shift right, I wouldn’t be able to dealer they want but you do a private inspection on it with your mechanic first red flag, and they sound just annoying about the price nothings firm what some other sucker buy it or if it’s meant to be working out in your favor. Corvette wow sorry to hear about that issue with the G 37, but it happens hopefully not a big pain to fix. 

fintail

The same author of those would do random street sighting photo essays on Jalopnik back in the day before it became a Youtube comment section.

benjaminh said:

These Junkyard Find picture essays from TTAC are strangely compelling. Here's the latest. Weird Japanese ad with Jodie Foster for this car.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/10/junkyard-find-1993-honda-civic-with-325k-miles/

"As the owner of a very battered fifth-generation Honda Civic, I’m always aware of examples of Honda’s 1992-1995 subcompact when I spot them during my junkyard travels. I see plenty of these cars with odometers showing better than 300,000 miles...."

graphicguy

Shifty.....don’t be afraid. Think you know, I had an ‘04 RX8, one of the first in the state.

First, if the seller won’t let you have it checked out, he’s hiding something. Can you at least run the vin#?

Things to know....

-they use oil....low mileage, high mileage, doesn’t matter. They use oil.....about a qt every 2,500-3,000 miles is normal
-the early ones, ‘04/‘05, tended to flood. Best way to keep that from happening is to never start and shut it down immediately when cold. Plus, a quick rev before shutting it down after driving it usually clears the excess fuel out of the rotary chamber so it won’t flood when you start it, again
-they are meant to rev......to redline (9K).....a lot. Don’t be afraid to do that....as often as you can
-The A/C is weak. Nothing wrong with it. Not sure why, but Mazda just put a weak compressor in it
-make sure the battery is relatively new. Mazda OEM batteries were weak (again, not sure why). So, if the battery was replaced with a Mazda OEM battery, swap it out immediately to put the most powerful battery in it that will fit. Personally, I think this was part of the issue with the car flooding. The starter turned so slowly because of the drain with a weak battery, unburnt fuel would settle in the chamber without clearing

The rest.....you know the drill. If it shifts good (and RX8s should shift as good as anything on the market), if it brakes well (it should of the brakes are in good order), and it looks good (no drips, runs or errors), you’ll have a fun car on your hands.

Let us know how it goes. There are only 9 moving parts in the engine, and it’s small. So, you could become relatively profficient in doing your own mechanical work.

ronsteve

graphicguy said:

-make sure the battery is relatively new. Mazda OEM batteries were weak (again, not sure why). So, if the battery was replaced with a Mazda OEM battery, swap it out immediately to put the most powerful battery in it that will fit. Personally, I think this was part of the issue with the car flooding. The starter turned so slowly because of the drain with a weak battery, unburnt fuel would settle in the chamber without clearing
.

I wonder if weak OEM batteries are just a thing now, at least with some (Japanese) makes? When I was shopping recently and looking at Carfaxes, it seemed like the majority of Outbacks in the 30-40K mileage range had had their batteries replaced. And the RDX that I ended up buying had also had a new battery at 38K.

When I first noticed the trend I was taken aback (the OEM battery on my Volvo went 9 years/147K miles) but I found plenty of threads on Subaru boards about weak OEM batteries in the Outbacks. And Acura has fairly generous warranties on any replacement battery, but not on the original!

stickguy

All the Honda’s I had came with marginal capacity batteries that did not last very long. All replaced with aftermarket with much higher capacity (like, 425 OEM and 750 replacement).

tjc78

My wife’s 08 Elantra coughed it’s battery up very early on. I think it was barely 3 years.  On the other end of the spectrum my 04 Grand Marquis was on its factory battery 10 years in. I replaced just because I didn’t want to get stranded.  It was still cranking but sounded a bit slow.  

corvette

Three or four years seems to be normal for a battery nowadays. 

fintail

When I let go of my W210 E55, it was 11 and a half years old, still on the original battery. The car had always been garaged, which probably helped.

The fintail, which has a generator, got 7 years out of its last battery, and it probably went prematurely due to a fuel delivery issue which forced replacement. The current one is 4 years old and doing fine.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: RX-8. Miles are high for an RX-8, @ 115K, but the car shows excellent care top to bottom. Whoever owned it, obviously loved it. CARFAX is good--33 service records.

Price is...well....debatable @ $6995---but most of these you find are rats, so when you see one nearly pristine, in the perfect color, and if it flies through PPI, I don't see a lot of wiggle room. I think the fair price is $5500 but man, the dealer is digging in his heels here. I might just walk at $6995--but I have seen really nice ones sell for more.

It's faster than my Mini--about Porsche Boxster speed (but not Boxster "S")---so nothing spectacular there--probably in good tune 0-60 in 5.9 or some such.

No sunroof but I can live without it. Most important, I am totally comfortable in it. I love those little back doors.

As others have noted, this is a very risky purchase, but then, what 10 year old car isn't? I could pay 3X as much for a Cayman and end up with a worse disaster (although the Cayman is, historically, a more reliable car).

Hey, that's kind of interesting, now that I think of it. A blown engine on an RX-8 just about totals it at $6,000, and a blown engine on a Cayman just about totals it at $18,000.

pensfan83

Do you still have your PPI scheduled? If so I would wait it out and if it sells, it sells. If it doesn't and sails through its inspection with flying colors then it merely becomes a question if you can stomach the premium the dealer apparently feels its worth.

benjaminh

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: RX-8. Miles are high for an RX-8, @ 115K, but the car shows excellent care top to bottom. Whoever owned it, obviously loved it. CARFAX is good--33 service records.

Price is...well....debatable @ $6995---but most of these you find are rats, so when you see one nearly pristine, in the perfect color, and if it flies through PPI, I don't see a lot of wiggle room. I think the fair price is $5500 but man, the dealer is digging in his heels here. I might just walk at $6995--but I have seen really nice ones sell for more.

It's faster than my Mini--about Porsche Boxster speed (but not Boxster "S")---so nothing spectacular there--probably in good tune 0-60 in 5.9 or some such.

No sunroof but I can live without it. Most important, I am totally comfortable in it. I love those little back doors.

As others have noted, this is a very risky purchase, but then, what 10 year old car isn't? I could pay 3X as much for a Cayman and end up with a worse disaster (although the Cayman is, historically, a more reliable car).

Hey, that's kind of interesting, now that I think of it. A blown engine on an RX-8 just about totals it at $6,000, and a blown engine on a Cayman just about totals it at $18,000.

It's a great looking and almost unique car. If you get even two years out of it that comes to only about $300 a month—which is less than the lease on something like an Accord. Could be a fun two years. And after that every month is maybe just a gift from the car gods....

PS Back in 2003 C & D measured 0-60 in 6.3. But since that's a few years newer Mazda probably improved it by then. So you're probably right on in terms of the speed. Sounds good to me.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/mazda-rx-8-first-drive-review

tbirdmarco

Yes most batories. So last 3 or  4  years now.

stickguy

This is a nice color combo. Seems like a decent price for barely used.

https://www.acuraturnersville.com/inventory/used-2018-acura-tlx-3-5l-v6-wtechnology-package-front-wheel-drive-sedan-19uub2f56ja001533

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: RX-8. Miles are high for an RX-8, @ 115K, but the car shows excellent care top to bottom. Whoever owned it, obviously loved it. CARFAX is good--33 service records.

Price is...well....debatable @ $6995---but most of these you find are rats, so when you see one nearly pristine, in the perfect color, and if it flies through PPI, I don't see a lot of wiggle room. I think the fair price is $5500 but man, the dealer is digging in his heels here. I might just walk at $6995--but I have seen really nice ones sell for more.

It's faster than my Mini--about Porsche Boxster speed (but not Boxster "S")---so nothing spectacular there--probably in good tune 0-60 in 5.9 or some such.

No sunroof but I can live without it. Most important, I am totally comfortable in it. I love those little back doors.

As others have noted, this is a very risky purchase, but then, what 10 year old car isn't? I could pay 3X as much for a Cayman and end up with a worse disaster (although the Cayman is, historically, a more reliable car).

Hey, that's kind of interesting, now that I think of it. A blown engine on an RX-8 just about totals it at $6,000, and a blown engine on a Cayman just about totals it at $18,000.

Miles don't scare me. The price does, though. Dealer must have put too much into it when they bought it. They probably saw it and immediately thought "exotic car". Plus, the RX7s (especially the turbo ones) can cost some decent money. Maybe the dealer thought the RX8 would do the same?

If it's nice....I mean really nice, I'd throw $6K at it. Wave 60 Benjamins at him and see what he does.

0-60 isn't the RX8s forte. Thinking high 5s to low 6s, 0-60. Same vintage 350Z will take it off the line. But, it's fun to zing around in, and as you say, it's a fun drive.


Rotor seals are the things that will fail in the RX8. Won't know about those unless you start tearing it apart. But, if they seals are leaking, you'll know it, as it will belch smoke out the back, just like a piston engine. But, if it's as clean as you say. And the paperwork proves that it's well cared for, I don't think it will be any worse than any other 10 year old car.

Have you driven it, yet? If so, how'd it feel? Torque comes way high into the rev range, so you have to rev it to find it. Power steering should feel firm and direct. Shifter shouldn't have any sign of "hanging" on to any gear. Should shift easily. Brakes should fee firm and linear.

Wait.....you know more than me. I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

Mr_Shiftright

Always welcome comments from former owners! Yes, the torque is very weak below 4,000 rpm. If a person is a rookie with a stickshift and a tachometer, they will do no more than discourage themselves and the RX-8. It's definitely a driver's car and a home mechanic's car. It would be the worst possible choice for a newbie.

I also found a 2011 (one of the last ones) with 59,000 miles (so about half of the other one) but again with a whopper price on it of $12,999. This is from a BWM dealer. I mean....get real, dealer!

Sure, a low miles 2011 is worth more than a higher miles 2006, but double? I don't think so.

The 2011 is fresh meat, so I'll let it sit for a while until the dealer gets tired of hearing crickets.

I found a nice 2008 Boxster for my friend--blue w/ tan, and automatic (which he wanted). The tan interior really helps to dress up the early Boxster's dreary and old-fashioned interior. Not sure I could ever live with a gray Boxster interior from that vintage. It just looks....well....cheap. The tan color warms it up, I have to say.

ronsteve

fintail said:

When I let go of my W210 E55, it was 11 and a half years old, still on the original battery. The car had always been garaged, which probably helped.

The fintail, which has a generator, got 7 years out of its last battery, and it probably went prematurely due to a fuel delivery issue which forced replacement. The current one is 4 years old and doing fine.

What I credited with the long life of my Volvo battery was that it was in the back, away from all the engine heat!

fintail

That might have helped on the E55 too, battery in trunk.

ronsteve said:

What I credited with the long life of my Volvo battery was that it was in the back, away from all the engine heat!

xwesx

Wow, really? Four years on a battery? Most of mine are 10+ years old at this point. I think my newest, an Optima Red Top in the Forester, was purchased in 2012.

corvette

Heat cooks them, then they die the next winter when extra power is needed to crank the engine.

roadburner

I would have bought a new RX8 back in 2007, but I needed a usable back seat.

stickguy

got a real world economy report on the 2019 Jetta. My daughter took a trip from Wilmington DE to Raleigh NC. usual I95 mix (stop and go in Maryland, then 75-80 (knowing her, most likely) there rest of the way. 3 people in the car. Per the TC, returned 43.1 MPG. Still had about 1/2 a tank when she arrived.

Impressive for a car that is not really small, in is very comfortable and reasonable power.

mjfloyd1

A friend is wanting to trade his 2018 Dodge Ram 1500, two wheel drive, 5.7 L hemi, AT, 18000 miles. Regular cab, short bed, sliding rear window, tow pkg, chrome bumpers, aluminum wheels. Maroon paint with grey vinyl 40-20-40 seat. Vinyl on floor (no carpet). No dents. No interior issues. 

Please let me know trade in price. He is retired Chrysler foundry employee so has employee slip for new Ram. 

stickguy

that truck must be a real rare bird these days.

qbrozen

Need location and trim

mjfloyd1

Indianapolis

he didnt know trim - he’s 74+ yrs old - what are his choices?  

mjfloyd1

He is checking trim on window sticker. Be right back with you

mjfloyd1

All he can find is “Tradesman package”

benjaminh

1-owner good carfax 2006 RX-8. 50,000 miles. $8500 asking price.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/753165030/overview/

corvette

I was about to say it sounds like a Tradesman. 2WD is probably unusual in Indy.

boomchek

Sounds like a bare bones basic truck, which in fact is the Tradesman, with Hemi option ($1595), appearance group which adds wheels and chrome bumpers ($595), and tow package. Brand new is about $25k after rebates. I think trade in value would be mid to high teens.

qbrozen

Don't have data to go on, so this will be a guess. The few that I see were in the $20-21k range. Your friend's has far more miles and is far further north. With those things in mind (I'm thinking $500 hit on miles and $1k hit on being too far north with 2wd), I'll wager on about $18k, give or take a nickel. 

mjfloyd1

Thanks

tbirdmarco

 That is right corvette what you said about the car batteries above the heat kills them, then they call dad when he gets home. Happy Friday all, hope that everyone had a good week. Have a good weekend also. 

graphicguy

benjaminh said:

1-owner good carfax 2006 RX-8. 50,000 miles. $8500 asking price.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/753165030/overview/

That’s the color mine was. They got the HP wrong. They’re about 25 ponies short.

tjc78

I bet that RAM is a pretty quick truck.. Hemi and Reg Cab, short bed. Could have a little fun in that.

stickguy

Isn’t that what Andre has? The white Ram he has.

Mr_Shiftright

benjaminh said:

1-owner good carfax 2006 RX-8. 50,000 miles. $8500 asking price.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/753165030/overview/

Thanks for that. I'll use it to club the dealer I'm working with over the head, to hammer on his asking price.
The one you find looks very nice. It's too far away for me (Riverside in L.A.) but I do have friends down there. But still, it has to go to a rotary specialist for a PPI. Low miles doesn't give any assurance on these cars.

One thing I like about "mine" is that it has no spoiler and spankin' brand new Michelins.

another problem is that that Riverside dealer has baddddd reviews on Yelp.

Mr_Shiftright

For you BMW freaks:

http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/2165-BMW-M6-3.5 Liter DOHC Inline-6?utm_source=M6,+964+Carrera,+Giulietta+Sprint,+Giulia+Super+1600&utm_campaign=E24+M5,+964+C4,+Giulietta+Sprint,+Giulia+Super&utm_medium=email

Very pricey indeed, but most of the ones you find are either rust-buckets, or flogged to death, or modified.

stickguy

Shifty, my take on looking at specialized old cars, is that if it is a real good one, not worth obsessing over a relatively small price delta. Asking 7, in theory “worth”, no big deal. Not like they are holding out for 15 on a car that should be 8 if perfect.

Mr_Shiftright

That is true! I think there is just an instinct to bargain. If I can sell the Mini for $3500, then I'd have acquired a very interesting car for $3500 bucks. That's not bad.

Mr_Shiftright

GEEZ, look at the money this guy spent on his MINI to keep it on the road.

Rough calculation--he put about $7000 in the car at least in the last few years.

28firefighter

Figure about $200/month in maintenance. It is high, but doesn't seem crazy. And I bet with that much work put into it, it won't go through that level of need again for at least another few years.