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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Interesting.

     

    You should also add that since premium gas cost about 10+%(extra 20 cents/gal) more than regular, that on a normalized cost(to regular gas)basis, the Ody's fuel consumption on regular gas is 10+% better than the rated numbers for fuel consumption/cost comparison vs the Sienna using premium gas.

     

    For clarity,

     

    1 gal of premium gas = 1.10+ gal of regular gas on a cost basis
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,814
    I checked the FWD Sienna XLE Limited - we say it gets 230 hp @ 5600 rpm on regular unleaded fuel. The EPA estimates for it are 19 mpg / 26 mpg.

     

    link

     

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  • ewtewt Posts: 127
    Bzzzt for the Honda salesman. The Sienna does have a transmission cooler in the radiator. Try again. Maybe you could use a marble analogy.
  • petlpetl Posts: 610
    One last time. Unlike Honda, all non-hybrid Toyota's do not require anything but a hitch assembly for towing. Get your facts straight. Also, for the record HP is not everything. Compare where the torque kicks in between the 2 vehicles. That's where it counts when it comes to pulling and passing. I admire your loyalty to Honda (they manufacture good products), but Toyota is no slouch. They aren't the richest and most admired car company in the world for nothing.
  • indy93indy93 Posts: 97
    I cancelled my order for the Touring N/R today. Main reasons were poor initial quality and gas mileage as reported by current 05 Ody owners. 75% note fit/finish, poor mileage, or mechanical problems. Ody will be a great buy next year but I hate to bring cars back for non major warranty work with a first year model. Lots of owners also reporting rattling problems.

     

    Steering and throttle response better than Sienna. Sienna is excuted better and has a big advantage in MPG in real life. Each had great features the other lacked.

     

    Picked up a Sienna Ltd FWD #2(HO)Navi for #35,085.00 +T/L (socal) Seems like a great value. I can offset the steering response and handling with a good set of Yokohama's Sienna's have crappy highway spec tires!

     

    Both are great vans to pick between them is a coin flip! Thanks to all the Ody and Sienna fans for a informative chat and Kudos to the host.(Steve)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    75 % note "fit/finish" ??????
  • My wife actually found the Odyssey seats to be more comfortable than the Sienna's because they tilt forward whereas the Sienna's do not. Also she likes the peace of mind that comes with Pax as she does a lot of distance driving with the kids. Plus while Pax is expensive, you only change tires once or twice during a vehicle's life. The XM is also nice and it looks like from the XM press release that the Sienna would not get XM built-in until 2006. Lastly the rear windows not opening is a negative for the Odyssey but she cannot open the windows due to allergies anyway. She also liked the Odyssey interior better. So we're going with the Odyssey, although the Sienna is nice as well. My impression is it has a cushier ride but the Odyssey is a more sporty ride.
  • greg_ygreg_y Posts: 26
    jsmath5

     

    Where have you ever seen an article or a posting that a Sienna has to have premium fuel to get maximimum mpg. Please post a link... I'm waiting.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    June 2004 C & D states that the Sienna as wanting premium gas. I am sure that if one rsearches more, that the same statement can be found elsewhere. It I were Toyota, I would not mention it, for obvious marketing/sales reasons.

     

    Regular gas can be used as the engine electronics will compensate the timing for it. But there will be a penalty of some lost power due to it. However, many "non-car" guys will not notice it or care.

     

    Remember the MDX uses the same 3.5L Ody engine that is rated at 265hp in the MDX, vs 255 in the Ody. But the MDX recommends premium gas as the engine has been tuned for that premium gas.
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    The '99 Odyssey was the same way. According to Honda, there was a 5 horsepower "loss" if using regular fuel.

     

    As a "car guy," I neither noticed nor cared (except that I saved .20 per gallon over 70,000 miles).

     

    The vehicle never displayed the slightest sign of hankering for premium.
  • greg_ygreg_y Posts: 26
    macacava

     

    Wants premium gas for what? The manual states that you may want to use premium gas for increased performance. I know this because I read it. That is all that it says. You are pulling this stuff out of thin air about premium fuel increasing gas mileage.

     

    How many "car guys" drive a minivan?

     

    You state that if you research it more you are sure that you can find some support. So find it... Post links... I'll wait.

     

    And don't cross post to another posting by a car salesman or Honda fan, lets see an authoritative source.
  • davenowdavenow Posts: 171
    "...Plus while Pax is expensive, you only change tires once or twice during a vehicle's life..."

     

    Does this scare you (anybody)?... it certainly does me!...

     

    What salespeople say? or how people interpret?

    How long do you plan to have the van? 2-5 years?
  • ewtewt Posts: 127
    "How many "car guys" drive a minivan?"

     

    I do and I know quite a few others that do as well. My other car is a 475 hp sports car that spends, well used to spend before kids, a great deal of time at the racetrack. I had a big 4 door sedan that was still fun to drive (Q45) as a family hauler before finally getting tired of frequently running out of space, and loading kids in and out of the back seat. I decided to get a Sienna instead of a Yukburbhoe like 75% of my neighbors because it is a much better family hauler and I have no need to tow, which is the only advantage they have over a minivan. If you're not concered with what others think of your vehicle, a minivan is a much better drive than a SUV of comparable space.
  • ewtewt Posts: 127
    "Regular gas can be used as the engine electronics will compensate the timing for it. But there will be a penalty of some lost power due to it. However, many "non-car" guys will not notice it or care."

     

    There just doesn't seem to be much difference between regular and premium fuel in a Sienna. Many people inluding myself don't see any difference in mileage, and I've datalogged ignition timing using OBDII software with both, and there aren't any big differences between the two. I don't know of anybody who's done any performance testing, but I sure don't notice any difference other than the car feeling a little more responsive at throttle tip-in with premium. Honda salesman will undoubtedly continue to tout this as a big advantage of the Odyssey, but it just isn't true.

     

    Car and Driver also thinks the DVD player can't be played over the speakers and that the Sienna has a backup beeper, neither of which are correct either.
  • have seen references several times but some don't want to listen to C&D. Here is another link

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-03-21-drive2_x.htm

     

    Article in USA Today by James R. Healey.

    Quote,

    "·How thirsty? FWD is rated 19 miles per gallon in town, 27 on the highway. AWD is 18/24. Premium fuel is specified. Toyota says regular can be used with slight, unspecified, losses in power and fuel economy."

     

    Doubt you will believe this one either. This has been ridiculous and too personal. Can we move on the more important issues

     

    People hear things and report them back. This isn't a court of law.

     
  • First I almost bought a Ody Touring with RES/NAV. Even had a $1500 deposit and van was ordered. That is before I found out that the Honda Ody Touring was the really the Honda ODDLY when it cames to tires. PAX ruined this sale for Honda. I cancelled few days before it arrived.

     

    Honda may have ruined my sales expereince with them for a long time going forward. NOT properly informing consumers the real FACTS, limitations, and costs associtaed with the proprietary tire technology that they and Michelin are FORCING on Touring owners. NOT a great move when consumers realize they have been cornered! But you can read all about PAX in the PAX tire RFT forum.

     

    My other reasons I like the 2005 Sienna XLE Limited over the Honda Touring are:

    Better smoother ride, much quieter, bigger moon roof, laser cruise control. sound system is much better in Sienna, nicer fit and finish in interior, back seats that fold into floor much better made than Honda Touring (no plastic latches that break), Roof rack comes with cross bars and was NOT "conned" into paying extra for such a simple item for a 40K luxury minivan, storage for spare under van, more comfortable seats, power seats on BOTH the driver and passenger side, better heated seat control, third row seats open out on Sienna unlike Touring, sun shades in BOTH the second and third row seats are standard, 115 volt outlet in both rows on Sienna not just the second row like Touring, nicer carpeting in Sienna, traction control in Sienna, extra storage in doors under armrests, but most of all no PAX tires with RFT are an option. Toyota RFT are standard size. Sienna has a spare even if it is a donut!

     

    I am very happy with my choice. Glad I had a choice on tires.

     

    The Honda ODDY (pun intended) is a nice van. Drove it twice. Almost bought it. As far as the gas mileage and handling both vans are close with Sienna having some things better as I mentioned. 2 miles per gallaon is subjective to real world driving and NOT great difference. The NAV in Toyota seems nicer, but I have NOT tried it as I have the Sienna. The Sienna uses the same NAV as the Lexus and it is extremely nice.

     

    Resale value may get hurt on 2005 ODDY, when Honda decides it lost too many sales to Toyota and others and see how many people choose the EXL instead of Touring. Then finally make PAX tires an option, not a requirement. Then YOU may have THAT ONE!

     

    A .3 in 0-60 is a "who cares" as this is a van not a sports car.

     

    NOT going to matter much when you are searching for a replacement tire on a weekend or live in snow area as there are NO snow tires for PAX.

     

    Sorry Honda, you blew it with me! My suggestion is get informed and buy what fits you. BUT know all the FACTS. For me 40K is a lot of money to spend. So be careful. Paying so much for replacement tires from ONLY ONE source was not a great idea. So I bought a Toyota and found it nicer anyway.

     

    Stephen A
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,741
    You have posted the same thing several times.

     

    Honda...are you listening?

     

    No doubt there are other "Stephen A's" out there that may feel the same way.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,814
    From the FAQ at Toyota USA (link)

     

    "You can find the recommended fuel octane rating for your vehicle on the back cover of your Owner's Manual.

     

    Our current model year vehicles have the following unleaded fuel octane rating recommendations:

     

    MODEL OCTANE

     

    <snip>

     

    Sienna 87*

     

    * For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended."

     

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  • Some folks would like to believe C&D, USA Today etc. but have a hard time believing what the manual/ manufacturer actually says.

     

    Some of these obviously are Honda salesmen, who would rather mislead people than telling the truth. Clearly, 230 HPs are with regular and one may get a few more with premium grade.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,814
    I like the way the compare cars link works at ToyotaUSA.com - they send folks to the vehicle comparisons at Edmunds :-)

     

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  • indy93indy93 Posts: 97
    Check the Club! 75% fit/finish, paint, rattles, grinding at 10mph, wind noise (not cowling assembly) EXL's.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    "For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended."

     

    The above is where the use of premium results in the advertised 230HP.

     

    From a marketing/sales perspective, Toyota has to tread a careful path to not allow that fact to be negative in the minds of customers.
  • You write: "From a marketing/sales perspective, Toyota has to tread a careful path to not allow that fact to be negative in the minds of customers."

     

    Prove your assertion. The problem is you have no evidence to back up this claim. While I would've bought the Sienna whether it made 225 or 235 HP, it will be nice for you to base your arguments on facts. Results of instrumented tests using both grades of fuel would be a nice evidence for starters. If you can't, then, don't keep repeating inaccuracies.
  • greg_ygreg_y Posts: 26
    You won't convince this person. They like Honda. I have used both premium and regular fuel in my Sienna. I cannot tell a difference in power or in gas mileage.

     

    The funny thing is, most people will rarely rev an engine over 3,500 rpms. This around where the Sienna makes its peak torque. All this talk of hp at the redline makes very little difference in everyday driving. I will occasionally rev the van to the redline. I am not wanting for more power.

     

    My own dear, misguided (just kidding mom) mother purchased a 2005 Odyssey EX no L. I have driven it and my father has driven the Sienna. We cannot really discern a difference in power between the two. Granted, I did not take out his new van and flog the engine within an inch of its life but I don't drive my Sienna that way either.

     

    They bought it out of brand loyalty to Honda. They have owned Hondas since the late 1980s. This is not trivial. Honda makes a fine car (van, SUV etc). However, Toyotas are also fine cars.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,814
    The way I read it, the Sienna generates 230 hp on regular gas.

     

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  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    If we surf the web, you can find other links where premium gas is recommended for the Sienna. One example is,

     

    http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national?srv=parser&act=display&a- mp;tf=/features/mvp/toyota/sienna/sienna_overview.tmpl
  • In all actuality, I don't believe most people can tell the difference in horsepower. It needs to be remembered that torque is a measure that relates more toward acceleration and horsepower is more related to speed. What most people think of as "feeling the power" is the torque. How much torque AND where it maximizes at are important too but most forget that. A vehicle that has low end torque will have a lot of "get up and go" but will take time reaching top speed whereas a vehicle with higher torque may not have a lot initial acceleration but will continue accelerating faster at higher speeds and is sometimes described as "keeps going forever".

     

    Again, in day to day driving most won't be able to tell the difference 10 hp, what they will feel is the amount of torque and its peak on the torque curve.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national?srv=parser&act=display&a- mp;tf=/features/mvp/toyota/sienna/sienna_overview.tmpl

     

    Here is an extract from the above weblink of cars.com:

     

    "As of

     the 2002 model year, the Odyssey doesn&#146;t call for premium fuel, as it had from 1999 &#150; 2001. For the Sienna, premium gasoline (91 octane) is recommended. It&#146;s not required, so no damage should result from running on 87 octane gas, but all the manufacturer&#146;s ratings &#151; such as engine output, fuel economy and emissions &#151; are based on the more expensive fuel. Regular gas is likely to reduce power and possibly mileage &#151; though probably not enough to nullify the lower fuel cost."
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,814
    Good link you found. Now will someone email Toyota and see if they dispute that? Seems a bit deceptive not to mention it in their specs. Nor does it seem to jive with the EPA's 2005 Fuel Economy Guide (link).

     

    You should be able to extrapolate what type of gas the EPA used in coming up with the Sienna's mpg figures (even though there's nothing in the notes to indicate that premium was used). All you need to do is compare the Sienna's annual fuel cost ($1,285) with the method used to calculate it:

     

    "The estimates are based on the assumptions that you travel 15,000 miles per year (55% under city driving conditions and 45% under highway conditions) and that fuel costs $1.80/gallon for regular unleaded gasoline and $1.95/gallon for premium."

     

    I'll leave that exercise to the math majors since I have enough trouble with my checkbook.

     

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  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    Your link is hardly authoritative, mackakava, and is the most slender of reeds to support the blanket (mis)statements you have repeatedly made on this topic.
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