Toyota Yaris

kdhspyder

How much do people want from a car? Sheesh? Maybe you should consider buying a Certified Used if you want more for your money.

An '04 TCUV Corolla S with 30K mi and 100K PT Warranty/Roadside Assistance, et al. @$14K is much more vehicle than a brand new Yaris with 'only' the New Car Warranty.

But for some it's new or nothing so there is the Yaris.

Both are good options, the Corolla is more for the money.

ghulet

...I wanted 'more car' or would get more car in an xA versus Yaris for the $13-14k, just that it's usually beyond irritating trying to deal with Toyota's BS, and nearly impossible to get exactly what you want. That's it. Also, I seriously doubt a full-spec Yaris S sedan is going to come in at $14k (remember, to the likely $13k 'S' sedan base price, you have to add the power package, the alloys, an automatic if you want one and the spoiler, which I wouldn't want). I predict a fully loaded version will be more like $16k.

hungarian83

"Yadda-yadda... the mandatory packaging of options just sucks. That's it.
I want to be able to scoot down to road for $10k."

As much as I wouldn't want a stripped base model, I really find it ridiculous that Toyota won't let anyone have the package-less version. The only reason they even have the $10,950 in there is a sales gimmick to attract attention. Sad, really.
Either offer the stripped version for $10950, or just admit it that no one will drive away from the dealership for less than $13k.

kdhspyder

It's not good business at the moment and first and foremost Toyota is making vehicles in order to make a profit.

The Yaris is just arriving. AS with all models there is excitement, 'hype', call it what you want but in the beginning everyone knows that at first launch demand is strong and supply relatively tight.

In due course the two balance out then the vehicles start to seem 'faded' at which time the supply supercedes the demand and prices are adjusted accordingly.

Two solutions:
1) Find a friend at a Toyota store who will put in a special order for you for a stripped model; you will have to wait for this to be built during the early months.

2) Wait 18 -24 mo's for the 'hype' to wear off and pick one up out of stock.

The same exact thing happened in the current Gen5 Camry. When it first came out in '02 there was just the LE model as the base. The market demanded after 24 months a more basic, stripped version so the 'standard' Camry was added.

beernut

The same exact thing happened in the current Gen5 Camry. When it first came out in '02... and the Miata, and the New Beetle, and the Mini, and the Supra, and the New Mustang, and the PT Cruiser, and the new Ford F-150, and the CTS, and, believe it or not, the GREMLIN. There were waiting lists and price gouging on them all.

kdhspyder

Well not much price gouging actually.. it is the ubiquitous Camry after all. I was more speaking to the adjustment made by adding the 'standard' version as the Base model.

The market told Toyota that the power seat, keyless and full-sized spare weren't necessary in a base model... and the price had to be lower. So 'Yota did just that.

beernut

I gotcha... adjusting to those who vote with their dollars.

You're probably right. I'll be voting against the options madness when it comes to the Yaris.

nippononly

make the power steering a little heavier this time! Just because it has power assist doesn't mean we want to be able to turn the wheel with our pinky at a dead stop!

The "options madness" remark just got me to thinking that last time it was supposedly an option (on the Echo), even though they never built any that way it seems.....which then got me thinking about the Echo's power steering....and OK, I'll stop now! ;-)

reddroverr

kdh,

Is there some secret tax strategy or something that favors credit? Otherwise, I would assume that the reason they like credit is because in the long run they are taking more of your money.

I still think if you pop in with cash, saying "no bs, want to move a unit?" and it is near the end of the month, quarter, year, you will likely do pretty well. If not at one dealer...another.

kdhspyder

It's not taxes but on credit contracts the dealership get a small commission from the lender on finance contracts. Chase, CapOne, TFS, etc. For those with not so great credit the commission is larger because the lender will make more money. It has to do with the lender not the actual store. A client a year out of bancruptcy but recovering with a clean slate for a year is potentially a better client.

On the last day of the period any serious buyer will get a good deal.... except a finance customer will get a somewhat better deal for the reason above.

beernut

"small commission", my a**!

People are often surprised to learn what the greatest profit center is at large airports. Any guesses?..... Airline fees? Concessions? PFC's? Nope.... Parking lots!!

Now, I have to be honest and tell you that my information is some years old, but the #1 profit center for many car dealers was FINANCING. In order of sheer dollar profit, I am going to throw out there for debate that the order of precedence is: 1)Financing, 2)Repairs/Service, 3)Used car sales and distant last.... 4)New car sales. A huge, in fact REQUIRED, source of revenue/profit for car dealers is in selling you MONEY, not CARS.

BTW, cash works extremely well if the dealer's need is to replace inventory with contracts-in-hand, and that only happens 12 times a year ("30 days has September," etc.)

backy

I sat in the Fit Sport at the Chicago Auto Show. It had no seat-height adjustment, at least none that I could find after searching for a couple of minutes. That alone will rule out the Fit for me, since the driving position is terrible for me.

As for the Yaris, I found out that a 4-door automatic with convenience package is $14k. That is without ABS, side bags/curtains, or power package (or such things as alloys, but I can live w/o those). So I figure a Yaris equipped the way I want it is going to be over $15k. For that kind of money I can get a much nicer car, e.g. Elantra GLS with moonroof or possibly even a Sonata. The Versa also looks like a nicer car than the Yaris and will start at $12.5k, so well equipped should be around $15k. And it gets an estimated 38 mpg overall, better than the Yaris. The value proposition of the Yaris escapes me.

reddroverr

kdh,

Thanks.

I am not an expert on auto financing. I have generally found a late model private party seller the place to get the best deals on cars. However, I've read that dealer financing will not give you the lowest rate in general. Put aside the 0% incentives that have pervaded the industry of late. If you are paying a higher rate than you can get at say, your credit union, or some fees have been snuck in on you, then despite the dealer knocking a couple bucks off the sell price, you have not come out ahead. They are essentially giving the dealer a commission which the dealer passes on to you in your scenario. That commission comes from somewhere, now perhaps the extra profit from poor risk borrowers allows them to give you a good rate through a transfer of profits. But poor credit folks get charged higher rates for a reason. that being their is more of a chance of default. In a rising rate environment, I wonder if the same "deals" are avialable.

reddroverr

If I were buying an elantra that i wasn't sure i would keep for over 6 years, i would go used. their resale value drops like a stone.

kdhspyder

A lot depends on how astute one is in shopping for financing along with auto's. In most cases the hierarchy for financing from the most attractive to least is..

Home Equity... good but not perfect
Credit Unions
Auto Finance Co's .. GMAC, TFS, Ford etc
Banks
Secondary Fin Co's
Problem Case Lenders
Buy here Pay here

All the large finance operations studdy each other every single day so that they don't get out-of-line and set their rates too low or too high. Very often the best rates are the specials from the Auto finance Co's 2.9%, 0% etc. on these it's the Sales Dept which has combined with the Fin Dept to offer incentives. Notice it's usually $1000 Cash rebate or 3.9%.

Excluding a subvented rate like this the CU's and Auto fin Co's are usually very very close, with banks being higher.

To beernut:

Your estimate on the profitability within a dealership is prolly very close. On new cars most are often give-away's with the hope that the buyer will finance with the Company lender ( GMAC, etc ). On subvented rates like those noted above the retail store may get $100 for doing the paperwork on the loan etc.

backy

This will be a long term car, 10-11 years in the family at least. I couldn't care less about resale.

motownusa

If I wanted the Yaris with only the auto and AC and no other BS, I wonder how much it will cost. I am guessing you could keep the price under 15K. Most people who buy inexpensive econobox usually dont buy them loaded anyway. Plus, the Toyota name does cost you more than the Hyuandai name. Sorry Backy, I know you are a big Hyuandai fan so I hope I haven't offended you.

backy

No offense taken. I agree that you pay more for the Toyota name. I've owned three Toyotas, all good cars. But I'm no longer willing to pay a premium for a Toyota unless it's simply a better car--there's too many other good choices out there.

You should be able to get a base Yaris, hatch or 4-door, with A/C and auto for under $15k. The 4-door I saw in Chicago was just over $13k with destination and included A/C and automatic. The major option added to put it up to $14k was the convenience package. But there are some features I will not do without, since I will drive the car for 6-7 years and then turn it over to my daughter. These include power package (I have to have power locks and windows on a 4-door, I am spoiled now after many years with those features), ABS (preferably with traction control), side bags (preferably with side curtains), and probably an automatic (because my DW and/or oldest son trashed the clutch on my Elantra and they will be occasional drivers of this car). I can live without alloys, moonroof, killer stereo, and even cruise.

bastid

bastid

.... How much the Convenience package and the Power package
for the Yaris Liftback would be?
Since this car is without Rear defroster and Rear wiper and only bench folding rear seat ( NO SPLIT SEATS ) these two packages are a most since these items are among these two packages!.

kneisl1

>The hatchback gives a nice roomy feel...whereas the ECHO sedan doesnt look as nice<

When I bought my ECHO here in the US, I was dismayed not to have the hatchback as an option. Having driven the Seadan ECHO for five years now, I see the hatchback has it drawbacks. The rear seats in the Scion Xa hatchback are only like eight inches from the hatchback door. That gives you practically zero trunk space if you cant put the rear seats down. The space availible with the seats down is not a large as I would have imagined either. The trunk on my ECHO has proven large enough for my needs. Its much bigger than I would have thought. That and the fact there is a passthrough between the trunk and the rear seat area makes the car much more user friendly.
Although I would rather have a hatchback, the sedan has proven adequate for my needs.

chrisducati

No rear wiper or defogger standard? Now that is just crazy. what is this, 1975?

chrisducati

you have touched on a point that has always bothered me. Why do the companies shorten the hatchbacks. Why not give you as much room behind the rear seat as in the sedan. One could style the car as not to look like a station wagon. :confuse: Since I will not buy a sedan it would be something I would like.

backy

Not all hatchbacks are shorter than their sedan counterparts. But that is pretty common. Maybe because in much of the world, the shorter, the better (tight parking etc.)

beantown

"If I wanted the Yaris with only the auto and AC and no other BS, I wonder how much it will cost. I am guessing you could keep the price under 15K."

Considering in Mass right now, you can get a Corolla CE with auto and AC for under $11K, I am willing to guarantee that you will be able to get a Yaris equipped that way for under $11K. (As a matter of fact, a fully loaded Corolla LE can be had for $15,500 in Mass, so any dealership that charges that and anyone who pays that for a somewhat stripped Yaris needs to have their head examined)

hungarian83

"Why do the companies shorten the hatchbacks. Why not give you as much room behind the rear seat as in the sedan. One could style the car as not to look like a station wagon."

Once you increase the area behind the seats of a hatchback, you will need to increase the overhang behind the rear wheels, and that will inevitably make it look like a wagon. The only real difference in exterior design between a 5-door hatchback and its wagon counterpart is the overhang.

There isn't any real Toyota Yaris example I could give, but here is the Skoda Fabia with a 5-door hatchback, sedan, and the wagon. The wagon is what happens when you make a hatchback version of the sedan...literally, they're almost identical. Not to say the wagon doesn't look good (out of the three it's my favorite), but it is distinctly a wagon, and not a hatchback.
http://www.skoda.hu/files/images/download/gallery/800/125.jpg

mwqa

Thought people might be interested in this:

http://www.drivingtelevision.com/reviews_detail.php?id=36

backy

Some hatchbacks have a "fastback" design so they don't look like wagons. However, vertical load space is compromised (if you don't mind blocking the rear view mirror).

kneisl1

My 1980 Subaru Hatchback was my idea of a hatchback. Cost me $4800 too.

agalas

I noticed in the Driving Television Review that the fuel gauge has some numbers by it, and the odometer also has numbers. So my question is, does the Yaris have a "Miles till empty" feature?

If so, then Toyota has sold me. There is nothing as thrilling as cruising into the pump with less than a mile left on the MTE display But then again I am a crazy and reckless maniac! That is why I am even considering such an impractial sports car as the Yaris two door!

double

Sports car!!!! just a wee 3 door hatch with a little bit of balls. :shades:

swng

I am in Canada and I have a 06 Yaris RS. Sorry to disappoint, my car does not have the feature you described. I presume only a car that has a trip computer can show you the remaining range. You could be seeing the digital clock and the trip meters on TV.

double

I also have an 06 3 dr. If you look closely at the digital instrument panel there is all kinds of numbers and figures in there. This is a generic panel for other Toys and used to show other readouts. The Yaris only has a few as milage (3) , gas, abs etc. This is a basic vehicle, all that crap isn't needed. If you want it spend the money and upgrade to a larger one. :surprise:

reddroverr

hehe

more thrilling to pin the needle below red and hear the car sputter and you don't know where the nearest station is.

ghulet

Did a manual Yaris 'S' sedan, pretty much loaded (power package, side airbags, spoiler, fog lamps), came to $15850. Not bad, not great. I'd like a sunroof, but the prospect of a ~$17k car with 106hp sure doesn't thrill me. Also tried to configure a base sedan with the power package, the website wouldn't even let me do it, not that it would save much anyway versus the 'S'.

Also configured a Corolla for my zip code (Chicago 60657). Apparently no packages in Chicago will allow the combination of manual trans and side airbags and/or even ABS--why does that not surprise me? Of course, the manual as 'loaded' as they would allow (PW, the mandatory all-weather thing, sunroof, alloys/spoiler) had an MSRP of around $174xx. I imagine the Corolla, once the Yaris is out, may carry some discounts, while the Yaris will go full sticker, so either way, you're in the $16k ballpark for a loaded vehicle. Again, not bad, but you're forced to either take the bigger car sans safety features or a loaded Yaris with ABS and SAB but no sunroof option, at least in Chicago. If I can't have the sunroof, the Scions are looking a heck of a lot more attractive.

If

nippononly

did the same thing, out of curiosity.

Came up with $14,370 including delivery for a manual shift 3-door with convenience and power packages, alloys, keyless, and ABS.

I am encouraged, as that is lower than I expected. But I am most chagrined to see that cruise was not among the options, same as the Echo used to be. What is it with Toyota? Every other Toyota has optional or standard cruise. Every other car in this class has optional cruise.

With no cruise and no moonroof, I might just get the alloys as an accessory and call it a day at $11,5 sticker, finding myself an aftermarket CD same as my current car.

Maybe dealers will have some type of dealer-installed accessory cruise lined up when this car actually becomes available. I am sure it will cost more that way than if Toyota just offered it as a factory option.

backy

The Accent and Rio don't have cruise available even as an option, either.

Before you get a Yaris w/o side airbags, you might want to see what the crash test results are with and w/o the side bags. They can make quite a difference on a small car, e.g. Corolla.

goltgo

Where is it now?
There&#146;s still some overlap between the needle and the slash below the "E".
How long are you gonna go?
Oh, I&#146;ve been in the slash many times. This is nothing. You&#146;ll get used to it. Just, get it out of your mind.
Have you ever been completely below the slash?
Well, I almost did once, and I blacked out. When I came to, the car was in a ditch, and the tank was full. I don&#146;t know who did it, and I never got to thank them..

Is it just the angle I&#146;m looking from?
No, Sir. We are down there.
Oh, this is amazing! Oh, I&#146;ve never felt so alive!
Yeah, well, alright. I&#146;m satisfied. We better get some gas.
What? Well, we can&#146;t stop now.
What do you mean?
We have to keep going - all the way back to the dealership. That was the plan.
There was no plan.
Well, let&#146;s make it the plan! Let&#146;s just.. go for it! Like Thelma and Louise.
What, they drove to a dealership?
No, they drove off a cliff.
You are one sick mama.. I like it.

- Seinfeld, The Dealership

bamacar

I am seriously considering the Fit. I configured a Yaris with what I would get in the Fit Sport model with manual transmission. I need 4 doors, would prefer a hatch, but built a Yaris S sedan. I added the power package, all weather guard, airbags, ABS, foglights, and keyless. I got $16040. Add the destination (higher in Southeast) and got $16675.

Could be Echo all over again. Once optioned it makes the Civic/Corolla look like better values. I hope the Fit Sport with manual does not also reach $16675. If so, I may end up in a Civic.

nippononly

for the most part, I agree with you on the Toyota. The Civic has gotten expensive - it will still cost more if you load it up like the Fit you are imagining. As for the Corolla, what you say is true for now, but you better move quickly then. The new Corolla (model year '08) will be here next spring (2007), and then you can bet it won't be as cheap any more.

hungarian83

"I hope the Fit Sport with manual does not also reach $16675. If so, I may end up in a Civic."
It should probably stay in the $15-16k range for a Sport 5MT with destination. A Fit Sport 5AT will most likely be mid-$16k after destination.

I configured a Yaris liftback to compare how my Fit (base) 5-speed manual will be equipped. It ended up being around $13,820 (including Convenience, Power, Airbags, ABS) without destination.

Honda has not released pricing for the Fit yet, but I am expecting it to be slightly less than that for the base 5-speed manual.

nippononly

I hear what you're saying. OTOH, I do believe there is being prudent in safety equipment, and then there is getting carried away. I debated the ABS! In my Echo, ABS would have helped me out once or twice when the car surprised me on rainy days, so I decided to check that box, but it almost went unchecked. For me the side airbags just barely sneak across that "getting carried away" threshold. :-)

Toyota's latest thing is making the "optional" side airbags and curtains pretty much standard on every Corolla and Camry they build, so I assume that if I want a Yaris WITHOUT those I will have to order it or go for one with no options at all. That is the "Toyota reality". :-/

backy

I just configured "MyYaris" and came up with $16,035. That is for a 4-door sedan with automatic, convenience package, power package w/o alloys, All-Weather Guard package (I don't think you can get a Toyota in my area w/o it), side bags, and keyless entry. That is about $1500 more than the list prices of a comparably-equipped Accent or $1200 more than an Elantra (with a moonroof), after current rebates. Or about the same price as a Fit Sport... or a Sonata GLS I4 (at invoice less rebates).

I wonder if we will see big discounts on the Yaris, at least until the new, pricier Corolla is out? Otherwise I don't see many loaded Yarii being sold.

BTW, I found the Yaris configurator very frustrating. Slow as heck (note to Toyota: not everyone has a blazingly fast PC) and when I used the "send to a friend" option to send an email to myself, all I got was a URL to the Yaris site--which didn't work!

nippononly

if I decide to "go basic" like my current car, then the convenience package is even cheaper than I thought it would be, and the whole car would be $11,5 + destination!

I figure $12K or 12,5 OTD would get me a new car, WITH the CD and rear wiper and defogger. Still steel rims with covers though. I think they move up to 15" if you get the convenience package, but I could be mistaken. Even so, a brand new Toyota for $12,5 after fees is pretty cool, and it will be ULEV-II and hopefully still get me 40 to the gallon.

If I am not taking the basic route, I will probably wait until the new Corolla arrives and try to get a really good deal on one of the old ones. If I'm spending $15K+ anyway, I can get more of what I want without having to work at finding a car equipped the way I like, as most of the Corolla LEs come with the 6-speaker stereo and cruise package (and already have everything else I want). And I can still get 35-37 miles to the gallon - pretty close.

bamacar

I know what you are saying, but even a Civic EX sedan with manual which runs a high $18800 MSRP can be had here for around 17500-17800 before TTL. I wonder if discounts on the Yaris and Fit will be much at all. The Echo at least in my area did not have much room between invoice and sticker, and Toyota never hit them with rebates. I love the fuel economy on the manual Corolla, but I hate the seating position.

A Civic EX for 17,500-17,800 and a Yaris S sedan for 16,400-16,900. What would I pick? Civic of course. If I wasn't forced to get the sunroof on the EX, I could probably get one for under 17k.

nippononly

Sure, I hear you.

Counterpoint: the Civic has the same problem as my old RSX: a turning radius wider than a public bus, making U-turns in the City next to impossible and putting it in tight parking spots difficult. With the Civic you add overly bolstered seats (who's driving this thing, Mario Andretti?!) and the very weird double tier dash with digital speedo so that the guys in both the adjoining lanes can test the accuracy of their speedos using your four-foot-high bright blue numerals. That last I haven't decided on yet - I will definitely try to keep something of an open mind until I test drive it in person.

Plus hey, no Civic hatch available! But I know you are looking at sedans, so that last applies only to me. :-)

nukepooch1

Let me be the first to say....Turning radius wider than a public bus? 35 1/2 feet for the coupe, less for the sedan...seems comparable to other cars to me.

Try my old 2005 Ford F150...stats say almost 47 feet turning radius...Every parking lot I was in made me feel like a kid with a driver's permit.

Interesting thing...the Chevrolet Aveo lists the turning radius at 16 feet. It's on eEdmunds as well as Chevy's own website...can you say TYPO?

nippononly

Yeah, I saw that too - I wondered if I should read that as 32 feet? That is likely what it is supposed to be.

By comparison, my 4Runner (last gen, not the current huge one) turns in a smaller radius than the Civic. The RSX was worse, at 38 feet. Sheesh, FWD and wide-ish tires conspired to make that thing really hard to turn in the city.

And for further comparison, my current Echo has a turning radius less than 32 feet, and I assume that with a wheelbase only three inches longer, the new Yaris hatch will get close to that figure.

hungarian83

Are we talking about the turning radius or turning diameter here? Radius is half the length across the circle, while the diameter is the full length.

16 feet for the Aveo is the radius, while 32 feet would be the diameter. On the other hand the Fit has a 35.6 ft turning diameter with a 17.8 radius.

nukepooch1

Yeah...shoulda thought about that one...numbers are right, but my terminology was wrong.
Everything is listed as "turning circle" on edmunds, which is diameter, not radius.

However, the Aveo is listed on edmunds as turning circle of 16 feet...AND on the Chevy website it's listed as "Curb to curb: 16 feet"

It would make more sense as a 32 foot circle...unless the wheels turn almost perpendicular, like a forklift, for instance...