Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

ateixeira

Nice deal on the rim and tire package. For that size, that's cheap.

Not too many cloth models made, but of course those could have been produced before (if?) they stopped making them, in theory anyway.

-juice

c_hunter

That parallels the Outbacks too. Everytime I have shopped for one, the lots were loaded with the pricey leather models but cloth models were hard to find. They always seem to stock the models they want you to buy!

CRaig

bat1161

I have to contradict on the Outbacks. I was just looking for a LTD or LL Bean OB, and most of the dealers I checked with had a lot of the 2.5i OB's w/cloth. That's why it took a little bit longer to get my Bean.

Mark

ateixeira

The model I see most of is the base 2.5i automatic.

If you search on Fitz you'll find 30 or so at times. More than one of every single color.

-juice

x5killer

why are ppl always trying to find a reason against hybrids? I assume mostly because they don't have one. I don't and yet I am able to admit its better. You cannot knock the Lexus RX400h or Toyota Highlander Hybrid in comparison to the B9 Tribeca at all. Yes price but that is mostly wiht the Lexus for obvious reasons and the fact that its hybrid model automatically comes loaded wiht everything (you can't not get nav for example).

These 2 cars are not rated #1 and 2 recommended mid size SUV becaues they are not as good as the Tribeca. CR would take into consideration if a hybrid was bad, or the batteries polluted landfills and all the other bs. I have not read/heard about needing replacement batteries often or that they are that expensive. From what I understood was that they last the avg amount a person would keep the car and i thought up to 10 yrs. At that point its like replacing anything in a car including the normal batter and if they are so expensive which later down the road they wont be as muchi'm sure the dealer will offer discount to someone who bought a model fromt them that would need a new expensive battery. Again , i'm sure this is exageratted.

Also, you have to take in the consideration the tax break pre 2006 and after which you get.

talking hybrids in general is one thing, but dont use the crappy Ford Escape hybrid. Ford sucks period.

If you are talking B9's competition in mid size suv's then i state again the Rx400h and Hybrid Highlander are consumer reports #1 & 2 even over thier non hybrid version of exact same car for a reason.

There is little to no cons with the current hybrids from Toyota/Lexus and many pro's.

Good news is that since Toyota bought GM's stake in Subaru from them, maybe they will make a hybrid Tribeca.

I can accept that the top 2 models I listed are better then the Tribeca but that doesnt mean they were for me at the time. As I've stated before if i had to pick again today, it would come down to the Murano & the Tribeca with the B9 sitll edging it out for me for various different and personal reasons.

So, I'm not remorsed that I didnt' buy the Rx400h or hybrid highlander at all but I can't say I would mind getting the mpg, and improved HP, engine performance etc. they get out of their V6's in the Tribeca as opposed to its current specs.

x5killer

nice, awesome wheels and tires. You are the first to change them on this forum so be sure to definitely post pictures of how they look once installed.

give me a rough estimate on how much that is costing so I have an idea for if I ever do something similiar. oops saw the posting on the price, and now I may want to ask you where you got them.

More importantly let us know how the ride is with the 20 in. wheels and tires because I know with the Infiniti FX they said not to get the optional 20" wheels or the Fx45 at all (which they come standard) as the 20's made the ride significantly worse thent he 18's, I hope they same is not for the Tribeca as not only do I think it will ook great but maybe add some height? and make it look tougher andmore truck like.

jeffmc

While at my dealer today for a service on my old Legacy, I chatted with my salesperson, who said he hadn't heard anything about Subaru discontinuing the 7-pass base model (cloth) Tribeca. He did say, though, that with the four styles and all of the color options, there are about 39 possible choices. He thought it'd make more sense to see Subaru start eliminating some of the interior/exterior color combos if they were looking to reduce anything at all.

Incidentally, he also said the B9 Tribeca's selling pretty well at their dealership - certainly good news.

cluelesspa

no height change at all. I went from 65 profile tire (I think is the OEM profile) to 45 profile tire with the same width. so thats 20mm difference which is equal to the 2" of additional wheel size the only difference is the offset will push the tires out 15mm over the OEM tires.

It will tighten up the steering response of the car with the lower profile tires since there is less sidewall... but I am not expecting too much change in the ride stiffness as I would guess more of that is in the suspension then the tire being already 18in with 65 profiles to start with....

the wheels hopefully are lighter so it that affects how fast the wheel settles also some affect on acceleration as less weight to get moving.

riverhawk

And oh do I love my new Mahogany/Beige B9. Got a great deal through a Fleet Buyer/Dealer combo team that'll do onesies that can't be beat... I'll post details on the Prices Paid board for those looking.

I'm having fun playing with the Sport mode. Seems to cut down the (I think somewhat excess) downshifting a bit. The sticky feel to the Sport mode is odd at first. One downside is that it doesn't upshift readily at freeway speeds so it revs too high once you get around 65mph (or is that upside/downshift - getting my directional bearings confused). Haven't had it long enough to get a feel for the gas mileage but am nervous about it. First tank came through at 16mpg but with hardly any freeway driving. The Manual mode is too much work for not enough fun.

Anybody have any experience with Sport mode and knows how it affects feel and mileage? And I want to try maybe 89 octane but am concerned about voiding the warranty.

foxbat121

talking hybrids in general is one thing, but dont use the crappy Ford Escape hybrid. Ford sucks period.

You do know Ford gets the hybrid technology right from Toyota, right?

There is little to no cons with the current hybrids from Toyota/Lexus and many pro's.

Right. And you can turn water into fuel. I'll believe that.

There is no such technology as all pros and no cons. As of today, the added cost of hybrids (comapre regular Highlander to Hybrids) does not offset any benefits it brings. Not until gas is much more expensive anyway.

stever

I think Ford's licensing of Toyota technology was largely a way to avoid patent litigation.

tincup47, "Both Ford, Nissan buy Toyota's Hybrid System!" #127, 7 Apr 2004 3:25 pm

In other news, Most Hybrid Vehicles Not as Cost-Effective as They Seem

But that's a discussion for one of the Hybrid Vehicles forums.

Steve, Host

c_hunter

Speaking of offset, were you able to match that correctly? Because if the 15mm you're talking about is due to the offset being wrong (my thinking since you said tire width was the same) then you're getting out of the range of bearing happiness.

Craig

c_hunter

I use sport mode 100% of the time in my Outback XT. I have not noticed any impact on fuel economy, but 80-90% of my driving is on the highway in 5th gear anyway. I imagine with a lot of city driving you might notice a small decrease in fuel economy, but it would have to be small.

BTW, my car doesn't have any problems upshifting into 5th gear -- in fact, it's not really any different than normal mode in that regard if you are driving normally. The only time sport mode delays upshifts noticeably is at full throttle. But in a cruise condition it slips into 5th just like normal mode.

Craig

djc1

Has anyone put SIRIUS radio in their Tribeca. I want to have it installed but don't know where it would fit and look good. I am thinking of the small receiver placed in the fold down eyeglass holder but I don't know if it would hold it. Any suggestions?

Dennis

jeffmc

Congrats on the new ride! You were the first one here to get NAV on the 5-pass, right? Have you had a chance to use it?
Don't worry about voiding the warranty - premium is recommended not required. Can't use lower octanes in the turbo engines, but the H6 will take it. I think most folks on this forum have determined that the slight decrease in mileage negates any price savings when you purchase non-premium fuel, though.

subienewbie2

I hear what you are saying and it sounds logical in many ways - but do the math.

From a dollar and sense point of view a Hybrid at this time is a looser financially. There is no way to recover the cost over the typical ownership period.

I believe the Toyota warranty on the batteries is 8 years which is excellent. But the average driver would have to keep the car for about 8 years to save enough on gas to pay the higher price. Now after that when you replace the batteries at approximately $4000 - you are back in the same hole.

When there is a real financial benefit I'll be the first to buy one.

As for the potential pollution from the fabricating & disposal of the batteries, do you really think the industry is going to advertise what those puppies do to the environment? I'm not saying do not buy a hybrid because the batteries contaminate. What I am saying - if you are buying hybrid to be environmentally responsible - then examine the aspect of the hybrid.

A good analogy: is the wealthy patron how attends an environmental fund raiser and then fly’s home alone in his Gulfstream that created more pollution & used more fuel in the two hour fight than hundreds of hybrid cars do. His intentions were good - but he does more harm than he does good. But he feels good about his actions.

ateixeira

Stock aspect ratio is actually 55, but a Plus Two is still possible. The 20" tire gains 1" in radius, so you'll have 1" less sidewall, roughly. You sacrifice some bump absorption (ride) for better handling and more precise steering feel.

riverhawk: congrats!

Sirius radio - if you have NAV and DVD, there's an aux input in the back. That gives you flexibility - you could put it almost anywhere. Other options include under the passenger seat or in the glove box, but then the installer would have to find a way to plug it in.

Hybrid batteries likely won't cost $4000, but CR calculated a break-even point and concluded most people never will.

Another thing they don't factor - you don't pay MSRP for the gas models. So the actual difference is higher than just the difference in MSRP. On a Highlander, that is a HUGE amount, you might get $3 grand off MSRP in a Limited model.

-juice

ateixeira

OK, that got me curious so I checked.

Fitzmall has a Highlander Limited for $30,445, with an MSRP of $35,708. So I was way off, sorry. The discount is more than $3 grand, it's a bit over $4 grand actually.

The cheapest Hybrid Limited they have is $38,149. So re-do the math starting with a price premium of nearly $8 grand. Ouch. You'll never catch up, and by the time you do you'll need to replace those batteries.

I do hope Subaru considers a hybrid or maybe even a diesel model, but one would hope the real-world price premium would be a heck of a lot less than $8 grand. For $2 grand, I'd be interested. Subaru needs to cut that by 3/4ths.

-juice

bat1161

Juice-

Right now that is one of the arguments that reviewers are using against hybrids. Namely, that it is selling at list price, and that it will take 8 - 10 years to recoup the savings on gas. The argument for hybrids is that while they may not save much $$ at the moment, they do offer slightly better performance and gas mileage now.

Mark

robr2

I don't want to drag out the hybrid discussion but in rebuttal I offer:

Price - right now hybrids cost more but as the technlogy advances and becomes more common, the price for the technology will drop.

Battery Replacement - same applies here. Replacement is expensive today but will drop as it becomes more common.

Environmental Impact - everyone seems to think that depleted batteries are going to be dumped somewhere and cause damage. These batteries will be recycled in an environmentally friendly manner. Impact will be minimal.

Payback Time - not every buyer of a hybird is in it for the payback. Some do it for the principal of the act. Kind of buying recycled copy paper, lumber from renewable sources or brown instead of bleached coffee filters. It costs more up front and you never recover the cost. But it makes you feel good.

ateixeira

At the current $8 grand premium it would take you 16 years. In other words, never, once you factor in battery replacement.

Consumers should wait for demand to level off, or for supply to increase (Tribeca Hybrid anyone?), before they buy.

Timing is everything, and buying now is poor timing.

-juice

PS Just read Rob's response, and I agree - wait until the pricing drops and it makes more sense

foxbat121

I think everybody had pitched in very good arguments so far.

Don't get me wrong, I think hybrid technology IS the future. It makes our car more efficient by turning those wasted energy (heat generated by brakes) into power (electricity). I have no doubt 10 years from now, most new cars on sale will be hybrids. But right now, it is not a financially sound alternative to gas powered cars. If it makes you feel good, by all means buy yourself one.

njswamplands

subienewbie2

Juice

Is that 38K price the the MSRP or those include the dealer over sticker premium.

I do not know of any dealers that sell hybrids without adding 2 to 3 thousand over sticker.

morey000

I'd imagine that you'd recoup some of that $8K difference when you sell your hybrid in a few years. So, that's a bit of a plus in the hybrid direction.

What annoys me is the federal gov't push for hybrids. They're legislating a specific technology, rather than just rewarding for better mileage- however it's achieved.

On a separate note, they don't offer much advantage for highway driving.

foxbat121

I think Juice get the price info from Fitzmall.com which is that dealer's final selling price.

kmartin

At the current $8 grand premium it would take you 16 years. In other words, never, once you factor in battery replacement.

I'm looking at driving ~15-18k miles each year, at around 18 or so mpg, which is about 850-1000 gallons of gas. At the current local prices of gas (almost $3/gal) that's around $2500-$3000 each year I would spend on gas for a non-hybrid. I'm thinking you might pay off the difference a little sooner that 16 years.

Toyota's has a very cool web site for info in hybrids, and there is a fuel calculator there. When I input 18000 mile/year at $2.90/gal for 18.0 mpg, here is what it gives me:

Estimated cost for my car/year = $2900.00
Estimated cost for a 4x2 Highland Hybrid = $1800.00
Estimated annual savings = $1100.00

YMMV - You could conceivably break just about break even in 6 or 8 years. Combined with the idea of doing the "right thing", this would be worth it to me.

-Karen in AZ-

foxbat121

I'd imagine that you'd recoup some of that $8K difference when you sell your hybrid in a few years. So, that's a bit of a plus in the hybrid direction.

That really depends. If I know that used car needs a $4k battery pack soon, I won't pay much for it. Try sell a car today that needs transimission rebuild (only cost about $2k) and see what your resale vaule is.

jay_24

Don't estimate your cost based on your current car. Try it based on a similar non-hybred highland. (about 25mpg based on 22/27mpg on the sticker)

Estimated cost for a 2x4 non-hybreb highland = $2088.00
Estimated cost for a 4x2 Highland Hybrid = $1800.00
Estimated annual savings = $288.00

It will take a long time to save $8k. So buy the non-hybred and save $8k up front and get slightly better milage than current 18mpg.

--jay

b9driver

What annoys me is the federal gov't push for hybrids. They're legislating a specific technology, rather than just rewarding for better mileage- however it's achieved. >>

That's because the technology has environmental elements built in as well. It's more than just MPG.

Robert B
5 Dr. Limited B9

subienewbie2

Karen

I would say the 16 years is way high, however-

Keep in mind the calculator is using your real world MPG and the MPG rating from Toyota - we all know those estimates are high by about 20%, also you are driving an AWD vs their 2WD. So there they are probably getting another 10% advantage over your B9.

So in reality - without adding the cost of new batteries - you are probably still looking at 7 to 8 or more years to break even. How many people keep a car that long? Not many.

Also, someone said a hybrid would potentially be worth more. Maybe, it depends on it age. If the car is within 2 or 3 years of the battery warranty expiration, it would be worth much less than a non hybrid because of the anticipated cost to replace the batteries.

So as someone said if you want to spend 8K to feel good - go for it. I rather give the money to cancer research or battered women and really feel knowing I made a difference.

stever

You guys are getting way off track. So allow me to digress a bit too. :-)

The other tech out there now is diesel; it's been interesting following the Liberty discussion; not only are diesel prices over $3 a gallon in lots of the US but apparently there's a lot of tinkering involved with adding various additives depending on the season, weather, temperature, who's ahead in the NFL.

Of course the hybrid folks are way tuned in to their driving habits so they can squeeze every last mile, even if it means coasting (illegally) downhill in traffic.

I just use my mostly ignored Subaru for grocery runs and manage to only need a fill up every other month -- maybe a golf cart would pay for itself in 8 years, but I'll be green in other ways in lieu of early adopting a hybrid or diesel rig right now.

No Subaru Chat tomorrow night - sorry. Audi bought out the Thursday edition (hey, it's AWD talk - stop in).

Steve, Host

katzjamr

While some batteries are environmentally harmful to recycle, Toyota hybrid batteries are not in that catagory. Toyota also is aware of this issue and will recycle the battery without environmental impact and offers a $200 payment to each dealer that turns one in to them. There is also a healthy tax credit for 06 hybrid purchases that i dont see being factored into the ownership cost equasion.

ateixeira

I don't think so, most people just call it the Tribeca and drop the B9 part.

John: I compared a no-haggle dealer's actual prices. Surprisingly, they were below MSRP for the Highlander hybrid. Even so, $8 grand? That's a lot of gas, even at today's prices, which are likely to drop (government estimates have them leveling off at around $2.4x or so).

Resale might be better, but then you have even less time to break-even. At some point you'll take a hit. It could be right if the batteries need replacing, as mentioned above.

Example: a mid 90s Legacy with an air bag suspension cost more when new, but if the suspension is saggy, it loses a *lot* of value because the cost of new air bags is high.

Karen: 18k miles per year? Do you ever park, or do you nap at the wheel? :P

Last I read the average female does 9k/year, males do 15k. But you have to plug in your own amount of miles. Mine is low - about 9k/year for my people mover, since I operate two vehicles.

That's why I'd also look at other benefits - like extended range, HOV lane access, lower emissions, silent operation at idle, tax credits, etc.

I'd like to see Subaru give the Tribeca great range and consider the possibility of including a generator for power outages.

-juice

bat1161

It's funny, when we agreed to buy the new OB, my wife made me promise not to bug her for one year about a new car. Think Subaru can have a viable B9 Hybrid by then?

She didn't want to look at the B9 becuase it's the first year the model is out. She insists on waiting at least a year. Maybe by then I can get her to get her license and we can go for the B9 hybrid?

Mark

jeffmc

They're not even testing the hybrid system in production cars in Japan 'til 2007 models, so I think we're still 2-3+ years away on the B9 Tribeca hybrid, if Subaru even decides to build that. Maybe they'll go diesel instead. Who knows.

tls8th

Per feedback from John M. internet advisor for Subaru "there will be the option of reverse sensors available next spring for 2007 models and as add-on for 2006 models.
I to was comparing the Tribeca with the Pilot.
The reason I chose the Tribeca over the Honda for following reasons:
1. I wanted DVD and NAV (Honda not an option for both)
2. Honda's ride great but you lose some road feel and what the vehicles limits are, the Tribeca has secure feeling that translates the road conditions flawlessley.
3. Even though Honda a great reliability, I have higher trust for Subaru.
4. Everyone has a Pilot.
5. Liked the sportier look of the Tribeca.

But your choice you probably won't go wrong with either one.
No info on the Nissan
tls

newtosubie

Thanks for the insider info on the rear sensors. There's been a lot of talk on this forum about the need for them, so I'm sure that will be a plus.

Wondering if you considered the MDX since the DVD/NAV would be available and still have the Honda reliability you mentioned? I am a Tribeca fan, just comparing similar models myself. Although, like you, I don't want what everyone else has.

Thanks.

riverhawk

Yes, I think I got the first one. The order was accepted by the factory on 9/1 and delivered 10/1. The dealer held it a couple of weeks for me befor I picked it up. He also ordered a black B9 5-pass w/ nav for inventory which came in the same time as mine and, unless he sold it this week, I believe he still has it. Webster Groves Subaru in St. Louis. SOA seems to have gotten it right...even got my Nav manual and everything seems nicely integrated in the 5-pass model.

I've used it now for a week and love it. I am trying to figure out where the 4 corners of the car end. I always think the car is bigger than it really is but am being cautious. A dent would be a tragedy!

cptplt

since I changed over to mobil1 I've noticed my mileage improving a little, usually its just 19-20, now its 20-21 and I'm pretty much doing the same roads , could it be the Mobil1 or just the engine loosening up, or winter fuel formulation????

subearu

Usually winter fuel *reduces* mileage. The engine is probably loosening up a bit, but the Mobil1 (or any synth) does help improve mileage too.

-Brian

jerrys2

Changed to Mobil 1 @ 1k. At 3500 my MPG is 19.5.Driving is 60% suburban, 20%urban and 20% highway (65 - 70).

Jerry

cdub1

Does anyone know if Subaru plans to add an auxilary input in the front of the B9 in the near future or for MY 07?. I would like to get a B9 soon but won't because I can't use my MP3 player in it. I am looking to get a LTD w/o DVD so the rear seat aux input won't be there. And even if it was how would you connect to it? Has anyone figured this out?

The center console is a perfect setup for an MP3 player with the dual power outlets and the cutout for the cords. If only it had an aux input in it it would be perfect.

FM modulator is out of the question.

I noticed that B9's that don't come with DVD still have the aux button on the radio. I was wondering if it isn't as easy as connecting to an open connector in the back of the head unit to make it work.

jeffmc

droher - I posted your situation in another forum. Here's a response I got from "mayberryguy", who works at the Subaru plant in Indiana, where the Tribeca is constructed:

"The 7 pass cloth are still an option, just very low production volume right now. The dealer may have a hard time locating one but can always order if they don't mind the wait. On a similar note, it seems the 5 pass LTD's are really taking off right now. I don't know if it is because of the available Nav now or not. Seems interesting how they switched model mix so quickly."

So that's a definite YES! You can get a base (cloth) 7-passenger Tribeca.

b9driver

The reason I chose the Tribeca over the Honda for following reasons:
1. I wanted DVD and NAV (Honda not an option for both)
2. Honda's ride great but you lose some road feel and what the vehicles limits are, the Tribeca has secure feeling that translates the road conditions flawlessley.
3. Even though Honda a great reliability, I have higher trust for Subaru.
4. Everyone has a Pilot.
5. Liked the sportier look of the Tribeca. >>>

Beyond the "feel" the B9 has a far better AWD system. The Pilot is only a part time AWD and if bad weather driving is important, then the still excellent Pilot is NOT in the same class as the B9. How reviewers manage to overlook this again and again is beyond me. Don't they realize that the AWD elements are key for many buyers?

RB

robotb9

I noticed that B9's that don't come with DVD still have the aux button on the radio. I was wondering if it isn't as easy as connecting to an open connector in the back of the head unit to make it work.

I have a 5 passenger Limited without DVD. It's really hard to get a good look at the back of the head unit, especially the upper half. You can pop off the trim piece on the bottom of the passenger side of the console. I've done some looking with a flashlight and an inspection mirror in hope of finding an open connector. No luck so far.

c_hunter

In general, very few people outside of enthusiasts will recognize the difference between a true AWD system like Subaru offers (with longitudinal engine and symmetrical drivetrain) and the transverse engine FWD-based systems like in use on the Pilot. For occasional poor weather capability, most any type of AWD system will suffice, and that may be the main selling point. But the real benefit of AWD, in terms of packaging efficiency, integration, and handling, can only be realized on a platform like Subaru uses. This is the part that really gets lost on most people, both reviewers and buyers, unfortunately.

Craig

rsholland

But the real benefit of AWD, in terms of packaging efficiency, integration, and handling, can only be realized on a platform like Subaru uses. This is the part that really gets lost on most people, both reviewers and buyers, unfortunately.

That is oh so true.

Subaru has yet to really get that point across in their marketing. They've tried, for sure, but haven't succeeded here. This is the area that separates Subaru from the rest of the other AWD cars out there.

Bob

once_for_all

I agree completely that the boxer engine AWD package is what separates Subaru.

But I also think that the majority of us who are willing to put our money into this platform have already done so. The first time I saw Subaru's AWD promotion in their literature, it sold the idea to me. Not CR. Not other reviewers. Certainly, these helped, but Subaru's efforts pushed my "buy" button just fine.

There are vast numbers of buyers who love cushy Toyota boat rides and Honda efficiency and reliability. They could care less about the nitty gritty design details.

John

ateixeira

Has a refresh on the way, and might get DVD+NAV combined options for MY06, just a hunch. They are supposedly adding a FWD model with VCM, too.

Of course then you have to ask, does that even qualify it as an SUV?

-juice