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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    The 2006 Sonata received 5 star frontal and 5 star side impact ratings from the nhtsa. Only 5 other sedans total have received this rating.

    Yeah and the Ford Five Hundred was one of them. However, the FH did it WITHOUT side air bags. I'd venture to guess that they Hyundai will win the IIHS test though.

    Supposedly Ford strengthened the Fusion's side from what the Mazda6 had meaning it should do pretty well in the NHTSA side test without side bags too. The Mazda received 3 stars without side bags so look for the Fusion to get at least 4.
  • smith20smith20 Posts: 256
    The real test is now - there are bazillion Accords and Camrys with 100k+ miles on them that run great and will continue to do so.

    See, by your analysis, you would have missed out on buying a Honda/Toyota in their earlier years when they had an inferior reputation to other major manufacturers. Hyundai is hungry . . . no starving to get to the upper echelon of automakers. The Hyundai quality team grew eight-fold from 1998 to 2003 . . . I for one believe efforts like this are making a positive impact for the company and for me as a consumer. :)
  • You're right, why would I want to trade in my 5-year-old Hyundai that still runs and looks (except for some dings) like new? In a year, my oldest son gets it for college, and he can use up the powertrain warranty. By the time we finally sell it, after 11-12 years, it will be worth almost nothing, and I'll have lost about $10,000 in depreciation on it. What would I have lost in the same time had I purchased my 2nd choice, a Civic EX, for around $17,000 instead? Do you think I could get more than $7000 for a 11-12 year old Civic?

    I wasn't implying you should trade it in.. just ask an expert for a valuation.

    Anyway, in the automotive industry, it takes a long time to earn a good reputation and much less time to lose one.
    It's a very big mistake to think that Hyundais are now on par with HonYota's at this present moment. According to the experts, they aren't even close.

    Hyundai/Kias have their own aisles in MBB/NW auctions despite selling a much smaller number of cars than the big 5 manufactures in the US. No other manufacturer does. This tells you they have more lemons per car sold than any other manufacturer by a large margin. And yes that includes the usual domestic suspects as well.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    This tells you they have more lemons per car sold than any other manufacturer by a large margin.

    No, this tells you that they have a lot of cars, based on sales, at auctions. Unless you are implying that all cars sold at auctions are lemons. And I know for a fact that is not true.
  • No, this tells you that they have a lot of cars, based on sales, at auctions

    I meant MBB/NW (Manufacturer Buy-Back / No Warranty aka lemon law) auctions, not just any auctions.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Can you share with us how you know this to be fact?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I've heard ( but only hearsay ) that Jim Press was asked off-handedly about the competition and he said Toyota's biggest concern was Hyundai. But as others have stated here longterm QDR is still the strong suit for ToyotaHonda.

    Among other things the Scion/Yaris is a direct response to the Korean threat. The new RAV also gets into it with the Santa Fe. Camry/Accord/Sonata? Will the Korean vehicle be as worry free at 200K as a Camry / Accord. We'll see.

    kdhspyder
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    It's not heresay:

    "We're always looking in our rear-view mirror, and they're [Hyundai] one that's coming up quickly," said Dennis Cuneo, senior vice president of Toyota Motor North America Inc

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/specialreport/0505/15/A01-182019.htm
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Half say the Hyundai is inferior due to resale value after 2 or 3 years (BTW, not the whole picture). Half claim the Toy/Hon is more reliable after 200K +/- miles.

    How many of these adamant Toy/Hon fans drive 200K in 2 to 3 years? At 20K per year (well above average) it would take 10 years to drive 200K. What % of new price for any car is left after 10 years and 200K?
  • Can you share with us how you know this to be fact?

    Terry's words, I believe
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    Let us know when Terry turns this juicy, important story over to a respected third party news organization for verification and publication.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,621
    Terry is 'THE MAN'. :)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Terry is certainly an excellent source of information, but as far as statistics on how many of what sort of vehicle go to what type of auction, his posts are anecdotal. Yes, he makes a business of this sort of thing, but his information is still anecdotal.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that. :P
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Wow - imagine that. The Hyundai's perception to the car pros is negative. And the majority of the general public's. Hyundai's day may come. But it's not earned from one good model year. Remember the Excel. And I'm not referring to Microsoft's product.
  • gmctruckgmctruck Posts: 186
    I've been test driving cars for the last few months. When I mentioned to both the Honda and Toyota dealer that we are also considering the Sonata, both of them piped up and said "You shouldn't buy a Sonata". The truth is that no one has a crystal ball and can say for sure if the Sonata will change peoples perception of Hyundai or not... only time will answer that question. Sure the Excel may have been a crappy car, but so was the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto. It's unfair to keep Hyundai in the "crappy car" category based on a car they built twenty years ago. Based on reactions I'm getting from Honda and Toyota dealers, I think the Sonata has rattled their cages even though they try to down play the car at every turn. Will the Sonata offer some real competition to Honda/Toyota? That is the unanswered question... we are still undecided on which one will be parked in our driveway. I have good/bad/issues/concerns with all of them right now.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    The Hyundai's perception to the car pros is negative.

    Don't you mean one person's opinion, who happens to work in auto industry.

    I've read some of his stuff before but couldn't find the right forum today. Anyway, Terry is not a god. Perhaps there is a "Jerry" in the car industry who totally disagrees with everything Terry feels, but "Jerry" doesn't post here. And, how many years ago did Hyundai stop bringing Excels to the USA?

    I remember some really crappy Hondas & Toyotas in the 70's. Fortunately both Toy/Hon made great improvements (in about 5 or 6 years as I recall).

    Many car manufacturers have had cars that bombed. Edsel & Corvair to name two that quickly come to mind. Oh, yeah, also Toyopet and '70s Civic which, other than name, bears as much resemblance to today's Civic as a dog to a horse.The present day Civic is larger (and better) than the original Accords.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    If the Toy/Hon people weren't concerned about the competition from Sonata they wouldn't bad mouth it. They would suggest that you test drive the Sonata and compare it to their car!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    This isn't 1985. There have been MANY good model years for Hyundai since 1999.

    Here's a fact: Out of the 22 model years of reliability data reported for Hyundai by CR in its latest Annual Auto Issue, two were below average: the 2000 Sonata and 2004 XG350 (which dies in a few months). Nine were Above Average. Here's the automakers that have a better record over that time:

    Acura
    Honda
    Infiniti
    Lexus
    Subaru
    Toyota/Scion

    Note that Hyundai's record is better than Mazda's, Nissan's, Mitsubishi's, all domestic brands, and all the German brands. Still a bit behind the most reliable Japanese brands. But gaining quickly.
  • jntjnt Posts: 316
    If I were Toyota or Honda leader, for the next 5 years, I would keep a close eye on Hyundai. The simple fact that they have come so far and so fast should make me (Honda leader) nervous. For the last 2-3 years, the Hyundai vehicles have consistently ranked on the top 3 of JD Powers Initial Quality studies. In fact, at time, they shared the first place with Toyota, better than Honda. Even last quarter, Kia (Hyundai's cousin), many years had been at the bottom, vaulted to to the Honor list with one new model based on Hyundai design.

    Every single new vehicle (starting with Sonata) coming out of Hyndai factory is significantly better (size, power, features) than the one it replaces. Remember the old Sonata, anyone? Look at the difference now. Next year, they'll roll out the new Santa Fe, and guess what their target is ? LX330!. You probably laugh to death hearing that. So did I at first. They don't even want to use the Honda Pilot as the bogey for designing this vehicle. If you aim high and work hard at it, you may get there. That is their philosophy. Simple enough. They don't hold back latest technology. If they do not have it, they buy it and put in their cars: entertainment electronics to safety.

    jt
  • to surpass their buddies Honda and Toyota in the future sometime. In the meantime they will continue building better cars with each passing year. The meetings have been attended, the plans have been drawn, the hierarchy is solid and set, and, you guessed it, the South Korean students are the smartest in the world. Not a joke-South Korean students score better on all core competency tests than any other nation on earth. Hyundai and Kia have some pretty smart new workers each graduating year to welcome to their team.

    Out of the four cars competing with each other in this thread the one that offers the most value for the money (factoring the Long Haul Warranty's value in) is the Hyundai Sonata. Pretty tough competition but I have owned two Kia's so far and I'm completely impressed by both of them. It will take a really good car from Toyota, Honda, Scion, Chrysler or Ford to sway me from buying a Kia or Hyundai next time. The body lines of the Hyundai Sonata are far more attractive than any other car in this thread.

    I must say that the new Ford Fusion looks pretty good. I'd like to see how good it holds up mechanically.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    That reminds me of the article I read recently about Hyundai's design targets for the new Sonata: not Accord and Camry, but Audi and Lexus. And not just for styling, but NVH, ride, etc. (Hopefully they targeted Lexus for reliability and not Audi!) So that is another example of "If you aim high and work at it, you may get there."
  • smith20smith20 Posts: 256
    If the Toy/Hon people weren't concerned about the competition from Sonata they wouldn't bad mouth it. They would suggest that you test drive the Sonata and compare it to their car!

    This is a great point. I definitely agree that they would encourage inferior test drives to bolster their own image.
  • The 2006 Sonata received 5 star frontal and 5 star side impact ratings ...
    I am not talking about crumple zones. I was talking more about advanced safety features that you mentioned, like stability control, traction control etc. I am not sure that those will work when needed. But, that's just my perception.
  • Terry is certainly an excellent source of information, but as far as statistics on how many of what sort of vehicle go to what type of auction, his posts are anecdotal. Yes, he makes a business of this sort of thing, but his information is still anecdotal

    Terry's quotes may be anecdotal, but when it comes to ME buying a car with MY money, I'd still place more importance to Terry's words over any auto magazine reviews.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    If the most important buying criterion for you is what price a car will bring at an auction, I can understand your point. For me, it's more important how the car drives, its comfort and versatility, its safety, its fuel economy, its styling (hey, I have to look at the darn thing for many years!), its reliability and warranty--things like that. The auto mags/sites provide some useful input on those kinds of criteria, but ultimately I need to decide based on how it drives and whether I want to live with the car for several years. Of the four cars in this discussion, right now the Sonata is at the top for me, but the Accord is a close second and I haven't driven the Fusion yet (although the styling is such a turn-off for me I might not get past it).
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    My wife's family are Honda people through and through. Before we got married, her Honda Civic was on its last leg, and needed replacement (this was fall of 2001). Her father had seen the new (at the time) Elantra, and was impressed by the looks, features, and warranty of it. So, he decided to make my wife the family Hyundai guinea pig so to speak, and bought her a new 2002 Elantra GLS. Needless to say, having never owned a Hyundai before but having heard the horror stories, I cringed as he purchased it. Well, we (meaning I) are sticklers when it comes to maintenance, and the car currently has 67K miles on it.

    **Problems to date (after 4 yrs and 67K miles) - Throttle Position Sensor acted up at 45K miles. This caused the car to hesitate for about 1 second the first time the gas pedal was pressed after the car had sat for 12+ hours. This was replaced under warranty. On the same visit to the dealer, they replaced the alternator, also under warranty (don't know if this was somehow tied into the failure of the Throttle Position Sensor or not). Also around this same time, the transmission began to "flare" in rpm between 2nd and 3rd gear - the computer was reprogrammed under warranty, and this was resolved. Lastly, we had a latch break on the center console storage area. This was replaced under warranty.

    **General dislikes - The interior plastic scratches fairly easily, although hasn’t fallen apart. Sheet metal dents (gets dinged) easily. My wife parks in a parking deck at work which doesn't help. Also, this was the top of the line (at the time) Elantra (sunroof, upgraded stereo, etc), but it still had hubcaps. 15" wheels, but hubcaps - I hate hubcaps.

    **General likes - Seats and carpet have held up really well - Although we vacuum weekly, and steam clean yearly. Paint is still really glossy. Gas mileage: just got 39mpg on an interstate trip last weekend with 67K on the clock. Car is still relatively “tight” and rattle free.

    So, here's my summary. After the Elantra experience, would I ever buy a Hyundai in the future? If I were shopping for an Accord/Fusion/Camry type of car, I would add the Sonata to my list. I have found the Elantra to be no more problematic than any other make of car I have owned. However, I am a stickler when it comes to maintenance and I am sure that doesn't hurt – so in terms of reliability, I have no reason to eliminate them THUS FAR. Then there’s resale - If that were the deal breaker for me, I would go Honda or Yota, and stay away from Ford and Hyundai.

    In our case, the Elantra is going to become a third car this spring – and will be driven until it meets its death. It has almost become a game to me to see just how many miles I can put on it. We are going to buy a gas guzzler this spring (we need something capable of towing a boat in the near future), and I figure the Elantra will be worth more to me as a third car than for what I could get for it as a trade in. My philosophy for car buying is to make a list of my wants/needs, and then buy the vehicle that best fits, and that is the best deal for the money, regardless of make. I have however totally excluded one manufacturer from consideration based solely on experiences I had at the service department of their local dealer.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    It seems you and I have a similar approach to car buying and maintenance, and in our experiences with our Elantras (although I have two now) and our plans for them. I am going to drive them into the ground by handing them down to my kids. After five years with my first Elantra, I have no reason to think it won't hold up for another five or so.

    The one Ford I bought--a '95 Mystique--was such a reliability disaster that I would hesitate to get another Ford like the Fusion, although I realize they have made improvements since then. But my experience would keep me from buying the first year of any Ford product.
  • chronochrono Posts: 149
    ic, but I would bet on stability control. I have it on my bmw and it's kicked in a few times and straightened me out. I'd much rather have it on my car then not.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    Best large car was the manual version of the Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd. (005380.KS) Sonata with 24 mpg city and 34 mpg on the highway.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051013/bs_nm/autos_fuel_dc
  • pernaperna Posts: 533
    And how is the resale on Ford cars lately?

    The Five Hundred's resale is excellent. I expect the Fusion to perform similarly.

    They're not in the same league resale-wise as the Accord/Camry, but leagues better than anything made by Hyundai. Korean cars have the resale of week-old chinese takeout.
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