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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS
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Comments
It's almost like you take whatever opportunity you have to twist other's words.
I am not going to argue about styling, it’s very subjective, but I happened to like the pictures you posted, thanks for brightening our day.
Dumb design??? What is that mean???
Again, you forgot to put IMO!
Well IMO, the 3 series looks good.
Not really. Some people like the dumb styling.
:P
IMO.
Ba dum, PSSSSHHH!
I find reality (seeing in person) is a better way to judge a three dimensional object than a picture.
When the new 3 series appeared I wasn’t particularly impressed with the photos I thought it looked ok.
When the IS first appeared in photos I was impressed with what I saw or more accurately I wasn’t as disappointed as I thought I would be.
Now back to reality every time I see a new 3 series (in person) it always gets my attention. I think it is one of the best looking sedans on the road today.
When I see the new IS, it doesn’t grab me it looks cheap; going on my experience with pervious Lexus models, I assume it’s well built and the materials aren’t economy grade the styling just looks cheap. It’s difficult to pin down, I just don’t “see” a 40K+ automobile this is SEE of course the V6 can make the price worth it.
My exterior raking out be:
330
TL
9-3
CTS
G35
MB C
A4 (the rear lost it for me)
S60
IS
Being the bottom of the list doesn’t give the IS the Aztec ranking it just means I find the others more appealing
CTS?!
S60?!
Come on that is just ridicoulous!!!!!!
The IS is a smooth, chiseled aggresive wedge free of too much exterior adornment. Simple, aggressive (Current "Mean Look" idiom) front end (not unlike my stunning TL,
My version of Ivan's list:
TL: A Japaneese built in the US with German and Italian styling influences. A beauty.
IS: See above review
330: See above review
A4: Always a handsome look, altlhough the original is still the best. It still looks good today.
9-3: Handsome, but a bit generic looking.
G35: Nissan diluted this style with the (also handsome) Altima. Unique, but too me it looks too tall/skinny.
S60: Nice, but look quick is it an S80, S60 or S40?
MB C: Bland, proportions just don't seem quite right.
CTS: a basic handsome design marred by too many addtional layers and lines. Both ends are terrible. The only Caddys that work for me are the XLR and SRX. I find the new STS a bit dull and somewhat awkward from the C-pillar back.
To me, the CTS is no Aztek. But among sport sedans, it is...
Interior wise, the 3 falls further down the list...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
CTS......
CTS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Anyone with a morsel of taste or appreciation for tasteful, elegant design would not mention a CTS above a C Class, A4 or IS.
CTS is appealing to me in the sense that it makes me throw up all over myself each time I see it.
You are alone with a select few when you say you think the IS looks 'cheap'.
The front end of the new 3, in my opinion, looks like a KIA.
yea right....thank you for pointing out the biggest failure of the new 3-series :-)
Without looking at the BMW logo you would think it's one of the cars produced by a cheap or unknown brand. Did someone mention Daewoo? :P
No, there are more than a few who think it looks cheap and looks like a Civic. (Note: I didn't say Lexus used cheap materials). Styling is subjective, but saying the 3 series looks like a Kia is a bit to the left of subjective. You are alone with a select few when you say the 3 series looks cheap.
I now get it.
Actually when you remove the "L" you get a Civic, replace the L with an H and sell it for $16,000.
http://www.car.com/content/research/vir/index.cfm/vehicle_number_int/1016877/Act- - ion/Reviews
"The car is very stylist,flashy,you can't beat the 4year 50,000 mile warranty on everything including normal wear parts such as brake pads,rotors and anything you can think. Good buy for the money."
Frederick S. (Memphis , Tennessee - January, 2006)
"Had to peel me out of the passenger seat the drive tore around hairpin turns and beyond jackrabbit starts, it was awesome! I'll probably never drive it that way but it is reassuring to know that it can handle fierce turnes and raging stops and starts!"
Chattaroy , Washington - September, 2005
"Okay so BMW is more classy than a Honda, VW, and what not (maybe?), but I have had serious problems with mine. Not just minor service requirments but major issues. I have had to have the car towed twice. The first because the car was shaking violently. They needed to replace the coils in the engine. That took a week and they did not have a loaner car for me. I had to rent one. Then it died on my in a parking lot and had to get a tow truck to the dealership. It was not the battery, they had to replace the fuel tank. Then a few months after that all the brakes had to be replaced. BMW is a great ride yes, but reliability no. "
Belmont , California - February, 2006
"The appearance of the car is beautiful and that's where it stops. The first thing you notice is the whiney transmission. It sounds like an old Ford pickup. The road noise is very loud. The car was using oil every 1200 miles and finally they replaced the engine at 10000 miles. I had the car back for two weeks and they had to replce the steering rack. I talked to BMW USA and asked that the car be replaced and they claimed that I should wait and see if other problems come up. Is this the BMW experience they talk about in their ads. The dealership has been very accomodating, but trying to get BMW to live up to commercials will not happen. This has been a horrible experience."
Nick C. (Valparaiso , Indiana - February, 2006)
"My new 2006 325i is spending it's 4th day in the service dept at BMW of Austin. The first time it was towed in, I had the harness replaced. My car suddenly died outside of Austin. Roadside assistance took 3 different tow trucks to get the car, because it locked up and shut down in park. Luckily we were on a dirt road, not the highway. The next visit was for an oil pressure issue. And it is back again for the same issue."
Austin , Texas - August, 2005
I'll be back in a while, I'll be digging up some bad things that people say about Lexus vehicles and we can compare notes, maybe engine disintegration and hesitation isn't enough for you, but it is for me. In the meantime the 3 series is still the segment leader.
In answer to your question, yes, it's worth the $40K investment.
Welll..at least you can still get $16,000 :-).
w/o a "BMW" trademark ..nobody would want to get that junk :-)
Plus, all the European auto journalists like the IS styling more than the 3 series too. Before the reviews came out, it seemed that the fact that Americans thinking Europeans wouldn't like the IS styling would be reason enough to buy the 3, since it is so European endorsed.. not anymore.
On homeland, Europeans laugh at the 3 styling. Fact.
I think this whole arguement will be never-ending. It is not so much that the IS actually looks cheap, but one's deep-set denial of loving a design made by Lexus over the BMW. That, would of course be a betrayal of something he has always loved.
I don't expect you to admit we are right.
Should we list the comparisons the BMW 3 series won?
.....Car and Driver
.....Edmunds (twice)
ranks IS higher than 3-series based on a thorough market research.
ranks IS higher than 3-series
Yes, Lexus is a very reliable brand. That's one of its big advantages over BMW. I do care about reliability, that's why I bought my Accord (well at least part of the reason).
But I enjoy the 3 series because it offers a very rewarding experience. The 15 minute test drive was enough to tell me- I want the car. But to me, I don't buy a car just solely based on reliability. I also buy it based on its merits. The 3 series offers an amazing drive. The Lexus offers a high dose of luxury. Like I said a while ago, it depends on what I am looking for. I am looking for a sports sedan. The 3 series is the best in my eyes.
This last paragraph on the edmunds comparison between the IS350 and 330i explains exactly what I'm saying.
"uDrive
Driven in isolation, you'll be impressed by the Lexus — it's fast, comfortable and handles just fine for most people. But the 330i is still the performance sedan for people who enjoy driving as much as Homer Simpson enjoys beer."-Edmunds
ranks IS higher than 3-series based on a thorough market research."
You might want to check out the 5 series sales to see how a lousy BMW experience translates into trouncing the compeition in sales for the Luxury Performance Sedan category.
Frankly, it gets old hearing how lousy BMW cars are and how BMW has a lousy experience, yet only to see that BMW is outselling the competition and beating the competition in comparo after comparo. Well obviously they keep doing something right. I don't have to defend them, their sales speak for themselves.
Sure you'll find one or two reviews that swing the other way, but if one makes a list, the 3 series is at the top. And with the bi-turbo or 3.5 heading to North America, the only trump card Lexus fans will again have will be reliability and the wood steering wheel.
There you go again poking fun at what kind of car some people like to drive. I hardly think that your line of reasoning is fair in the least.
Could it be that the reason I like the IS over the 3 series is because I don't like how it looks, inside especially?
To be honest, I would probably lease a 3 series very soon if its interior wasn't so ugly, in my opinion. Also, the exterior is horrid or anything, but just not attractive like the e46 was.
You sound like a broken record sometimes by saying the only things that somebody who bought an IS must like are wood steering wheels and reliability. It shows how little you really know about the car.
Let's be honest for once. The IS is a very fun car to drive, but not as fun as the 3 series. Being not as fun as a 3 series doesn't make it drive like a Camry.
Didn't the 5 series come sixth in the "spoilsport sedans" comparison by C&D, and 4th in the Edmunds "all wheel drive" comparison.
And with the bi-turbo or 3.5 heading to North America, the only trump card Lexus fans will again have will be reliability and the wood steering wheel.
Does the 3.5 come with a better interior?
The IS has a gorgeous interior and that is one of its big advantages over the 3 series.
Anywho, the Lexus IS500 will have a 5.0L V8 (and 2 doors).
Trump.
I was just stating that the IS's advantages aren't just a "wood steering wheel and reliability." The interior of Lexus vehicles in general, are all beautifully done. I admit BMW's interiors aren't great, but they're nice in certain colors. Their designs are very simple.
That is one thing that has always lingered in my mind. I think the 3 series interior looks best in cherry, cinnamon, or lemon. One thing that eats me alive, though, is the center dash and the instrument panel. I hate it. I couldn't live with it for a second.
By the way, neko, there is word that it is not a V8, but a 4.0l V10. I posted the article a few pages back. You should look at it. It's a decent read with some new info. Seems credible.
Did you get a check to check out what they have in store on their LF-A platform?
I do know they are making a long version of the new LS...could put a V10 in that thing. The new LS is going to be Godly if you have not seen it....I saw it in person at the Chicago auto show. My dealer already has orders for it (goes on sale in sept-oct)
We should stop this though because the other forum members will be angry with the off-topic discussion.
:P
I actually tired of hearing this “most people” argument, I’m not most people and I don’t think you are. Most people are driving Camrys and Accords."
I agree. I enjoy driving as well and the Camry or Accord is considered basic transportation. We are talking about luxury sport sedans here. From a pure driving experience, the BMW is better but there is more than just the driving experience of handling, feel etc as far as the ownership and overall experience of the car is concerned for most people. For me, I am willing to give up some road feel for better interior appointments, gas mileage and other factors, not alot mind you but some...The IS is the better car overall because of the word overall. Styling is subjective so that gets left to personal preference but the interior of the IS is a better layout ergonomically, the engine gets better mileage, the IS is on the cutting edge of technology as far as convience, safety and amenities are concerned. The BMW is a fine car and I'd want nothing more if it was just the feeling of the brakes, accelerator, steering column with the road is the whole picture. But since I value performance with a small p and I like luxury with a capital L which is what most people who drive either car value, The IS is the better overall car. IMO
The great thing about the IS350 is that you get both a capital "P" and "L"
The Bimmer gives you a slightly larger "P" and a signifigantly smaller "l"
Lexus probably uses a slightly different grade of interior materials, but the "L" in the BMW is as good, and the "P" is significantly better. It offers more of the technology the driver needs to focus on the road, and less the driver doesn't need. For BMW fans that works, for Lexus fans it doesn't.
There is no indication the IS drives like a Camry any more than the 3 series won't be able to go 10 feet without breaking down.
The 4 year b-b free maintenance is a plus, it guarantees a $0 ceiling (except for tires or optional accessories) on the car in four years.
"And with the bi-turbo or 3.5 heading to North America, the only trump card Lexus fans will again have will be reliability and the wood steering wheel."
Do you how many times my friends had to bring their cars to dealer to fix the problems?..The free maintenance program sounds as if it's a plus to the ownership experience but it's not always the case. When Mikhail (my Russian colleague) complained about the cranking noise with the car the dealer kept telling him it's a normal behavior and refused to resolve the issue. Mikhail told me he got pissed off because both him and his wife did not experience that problem during their first year of owning the car. And guess what... they finally found out the root cause when his BMW was stranded on the I-94 interstate.
"Most of the worst sedans in Consumer Reports' ranking come from Europe, including this BMW 5-Series V8."
http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544
"The hottest sellers are the redesigned Lexus IS sedan, Toyota Prius and the Scion tC. They all are spending fewer than 15 days on dealer lots before being sold, according to national sales activity tracked through the first eight weeks of 2006 by J.D. Power and Associates Power Information Network."
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060306/AUTO01/603060373/1148-
I understand, I know people who have brought back their Lexus to the dealership a number of times to get some problems fixed. So I can sympathize.
However, that doesn't negate the b-b free maintenance. This is not warranty coverage, this is free scheduled maintenance for four years on every item except tires.
You are like me in one respect, you tend to know people who have problems with decent automobiles. And you are using these people to illustrate points. Just like I know people who have problems with supposedly reliable Japanese brands, including Lexus. Never seen a Lexus on a flatbed?
That's a deal breaker for me. All other letters of the alphabet are of secondary importance, IMHO.
link title
My prediction is that if this car got into the hands of the wrong people with VDIM off, they would most certainly kill themselves.