Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

andres3

Well, I agree that if Cadillac wants to succeed, they need a good 30K car and they need to make and sell one.

I am also stating, through my comment, that Cadillac isn't known for making smaller cars so it will be difficult for them to establish themselves in this market. They'd need a good product, and good advertisements.

Mr_Shiftright

Imaginary Reborn Cadillac Line-Up:

A Series

A v-6 4 door sport sedan and coupe, in "base" engine and in supercharged or turbocharged "S" versions. Also a sport wagon/crossover, based on the A series, with optional AWD optional S, optional manual transmission.

B Series

V8 non-aspirated or V-6 turbo or SC with larger displacement than A series. Offerings include a 4-door MANUAL transmission SS, or 6-speed automatic. NO COUPE! Also a 5 passenger mid-size luxury SUV, automatic V-6 SC, TC, regular or hybrid in the SUV only. Optional AWD all models.

C Series

Flagship V8 or V12 4 door sedan, optional long wheel base model, Also luxury heavy SUV (Escalade type), regular or hybrid versions. No AWD except in SUV.

lokki

I like it! For context I'd suggest that the BMW equivalent wouldn't be a 3, 5, 7 series, but more of a 5,7,9 equivalent. Yes, a level higher than the BMW line goes.

The current SRV crossover works just fine for the A series.
Perhaps the STS for the v-6 four door. I'd say the prices start at about $45,000 for the A series. Yes, I'd abandon the CTS. As I've said before, it's not that the CTS isn't a good car, it's just that it's too small to say "Cadillac".

For the B series cars, however, we must simply pretend that the DTS never has existed. FWD is gone. These B series would be (in my vision) the equivalent of the Cadillacs of yore. Probably $60,000 gets you a large car; a traditional Caddy with ash trays and a cigar lighter.

For the C series, a V12 model and a stretched Presidential limousine model - with a hand built engine and uber-interior. More of an American Maybach (but at about $150K) than a Mercedes 600. These are the cars that Las Vegas would send to the airport to pick up the high rollers. Caddy could give one as a gift each year to the CEO of the best performing company on Wall Street, eh?

The intent here (at first) is not to be a money maker but to be a halo division for GM. Image cars.

That Cadillacs become unobtainable to the masses only adds to their status IMHO. Corvettes are almost in that class now, and it hasn't hurt their sales.

louiswei

The intent here (at first) is not to be a money maker but to be a halo division for GM. Image cars.

That Cadillacs become unobtainable to the masses only adds to their status IMHO.

HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah right...

I am pretty sure GM would love to make Cadillac their non-money-maker halo division.

If that's the case then which one should serve as GM's luxury division to compete with the such like BMW, MB, Audi and Lexus? Buick? Saab? Give me a break...

Corvette is a poor man's super car and almost cost as much as your "imaginary" A-series. The reason why the Vette kept selling despite GM's recent trouble is because 1. that's a car which offers most performance for the bucks and 2. it's the icon of American sports cars. Heck, even me, the so called "import lover" would love to have one sitting on my drive way someday.

For people think that Caddy is more prestigious and should be more prestigious than the import luxury marques are day dreaming and only kidding themselves.

gagrice

I agree with you. Watering down a brand to try and capture a demographic does not make sense. Take Lexus now everyone has that fancy L on a car of some sort. Makes them look like a cheap brand. I like the Maybach idea. Build a car that not everyone can afford and it becomes a goal. Leave the cheap luxury to Buick and the sport to Pontiac. As much money as Lexus has made on the RX and ES series vehicles I think it cheapened the brand. Everyone has them. What is so special about a Lexus?

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmmm...I simply cannot see Cadillac as ever, ever, being a super-prestigious brand again. Reality check, year 2007. That goal is not attainable.

However, a broad line of high-performance sedans, coupes, SUVs and crossovers is the only path I can see that seems promising and doable. Cadillac could become a symbol of American car performance value. Like Chrysler 300C. Like Corvette. Like Mustang -- but of course more upscale, and NO fiberglass!

Buick and Pontiac are old, tired, dead brands I fear. Cadillac can take on Pontiac's former "excitement" and Chevrolet can fill in the Buick empty spots by going a bit more upscale. Retire those brands like they did with Oldsmobile.

But let Cadillac try to find a reputation for power and good looks. EVERY Cadillac should be a performance automobile. No slugs, no FWD, no old man cars, no re-badged Opels. There should not be one single Cadillac model that anyone has to make excuses for.

Cadillac should stand for "credibility" up and down its entire line.

gagrice

I pretty much agree with your thoughts. The big problem is getting rid of the Ponitac and Buick dealers. I don't think that GM will do that again as with Olds. If they keep it all I think that each brand should be distinctive. It is all GM so whether a 20 year old buys a Chevy or Cadillac is of little consequence, as long as GM can sell them a car. GM just needs to have a vehicle for every buyer to keep ahead of the competition. Not sure they are up to it.

plekto

The perfect place for an entry-level "Cadillac" is Buick. Lower price, nice cars... exactly what the person aspiring to eventually buy a Cadillac wants. The Lucerne with the V8 is a lovely car - a decent enough alternative to the Avalon if someone wants a GM instead of a Toyota.

GM frankly put, makes miserable small cars. Exactly how Porsche makes SUVs - they have a fundamental block in their thought process' that keeps them from really "getting it". Sure, Porsch makes a SUV of sorts, but it's not a 4-Runner or a Wrangler. It lacks the rock-crawling, mud-loving, big tires aspect of a proper SUV. GM - well, their attempts as small cars have been a disaster for the last two decades - other than Chevrolet/commuter boxes at the very bottom. It was so bad that they had to buy Saab out to even fill the hole in their lineup a little bit - and while Saab is nice, it's no Buick or Cadillac.

GM is better off just leaving the 3 series and all the rest where they are and gobbling up as much of the current midsize and large car(as well as SUV) niches as they can. Loads less R&D and trust me - there's more than enough money and buyers to go around. BMW is a prime example of a smaller company that has no reason to change much if anytihng that they do.(well, other than the 5 series - it's in serious need of a refresh or a drastic price readjustment)

mediapusher

I heard that, I dont have any faith in GM's management either --- too many blunders.. They're turning the CTS into an old person's car

louiswei

They're turning the CTS into an old person's car

That's okay, as long as they have another entry level model to fill in the old CTS' spot. I actually like the idea of moving CTS up market and making STS their flagship.

With so many luxury manufactures these days, once Caddy losses the younger demographics early they'll loss them forever.

rayainsw

“if we drove a Toyota and a Chevy out of a showroom and right onto the Interstate for a trip across the country, I sure wouldn't bet on the Chevy”
+
“I'm terrified of buying a GM product, even though I'd really like to have an HHR or a Corvette. I can't risk it.” – Mr_Shiftright

RE: General reliability \ dependability experience vs anecdotal evidence.

No offense to you or to Edmunds, but the anecdotal evidence one can typically gather from reading posts on the web sites focused on individual makes & models ( a Corvette Forum, or a Miata Forum, for example ) provide a breadth & depth of personal experience that ** MAY ** be more useful than data gathered & analyzed by entities like JDPower & Consumer Reports. In some respects. Certainly the opportunity to question a poster with a problem or issue offers a chance at clarifying several aspects not available from any survey: A chance to understand the exact nature & severity of a problem. The circumstances. The Dealer’s actions – and effectiveness of those actions. And that level of additional detail makes this sort of anecdotal evidence very valuable indeed. To me. One of the truly great aspects of the ‘Net.

RE: Corvette \ GM product \ “terrified”.

I do understand that feeling. I waited to buy my first Corvette ( a 2007, last Fall ) until the C6 had been out 2 full model years & the 6 speed automatic had a full model year of production & feedback on Forums. Without access to Corvette Forums, to follow owner experiences, I would likely never have purchased my ‘Vette.

While my Corvette is not quite perfect, in 7,000+ miles of Daily Driver \ largely commuting use, in 5 months, it has been 100% reliable & dependable. And it’s “only a Chevy”. And it is a thrill every time I drive it. I would not hesitate to set out for a cross country trip in her. In fact, as my Daughter & I will be spending a week or so in SoCal & Yosemite this Fall, I’d seriously consider driving my Corvette to the Left Coast, if it was just a bit less far from Atlanta – or I had a bit more vacation time to burn. There are many roads I know in & around San Diego and out toward Anza Borrego, etc. where I am sure the Corvette would be more fun than any rental I can afford . . .

Yet, even if I had experienced issues – what exactly would that one data point prove? ( Rhetorical question. )

The more recent survey data I have seen suggests that GM \ Chevy worked diligently to improve reliability between 2005 & 2006 on the Corvette. And the STS data I have seen suggests some similar trends.

My point here is only this ( and essentially what I recently told my daughter, looking to move out of NYC and buy her first car late this Summer ) – If you find a car that will provide for all your needs, ** AND ** one that you feel passionately about, don’t let somewhat less than stellar reliability dissuade you from that car. [ A couple of exceptions to that guidance might be any Jaguar, many VWs, many M-B models or a Land Rover – where their reported reliability appears to be much, MUCH less than stellar. Substantially increasing the chances of real service issues. ]

- Ray
Driving a car I love - & driving with reasonable confidence . . .

lokki

Here the problem I'm trying to solve -

Why buy a Cadillac?

Like it or not, Luxury cars are about image.

If you buy a BMW and your friend asks you, "Why a BMW?" Your answer is generally along the lines of, "Well I'm doing pretty well at work, and I like to drive" Your friends are impressed (or so you hope).

"Why a Mercedes?" Nobody asks. They just assume that you're either very successful or your uncle died and you're rich now.

"Why a Lexus?" Not many people ask. But if they do, you cite the superior quality and comfort of the Japanese cars. Your success, while probably not at the Mercedes-implied level is assumed.

Now: Why a Cadillac? Lemko (who suffers, I suspect, from Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria Syndrome)will answer "Because I've always aspired to one" but no one else under 65 will.

If you say "Quality", people will say, "Lexus"
If you say "Driving", people will say, "BMW"
If you were brave enough to say "Status", people will say
"Mercedes"

Right now, I don't think there is an answer to "Why a Cadillac", except for Escalade buyers, who can say "Because "Rapper X" drives one on dubs".

My proposed answer for the future is "Because NO foreigner can make an honest-to-God AMERICAN Luxo-cruiser." That's the Harley answer. Everyone who sees a [non-permissible content removed]-cruiser bike secretly thinks, "Why didn't he spend a few $K more for the real thing?"

So... there's the question: Define what the "real thing" Caddy should be.

Mr. Shiftright has given his answer - I've proposed mine...
Your answer?

bumpy

The CTS was designed as a young persons car.

Where "young" is 55, versus the 75-year-olds that earlier Cadillacs were designed for. The number of people born after 1975 who lust after a CTS can be counted on one hand.

louiswei

Mr. Shiftright has given his answer - I've proposed mine...
Your answer?

I actually told you my answer already, not once, but many times.

I like the direction where Caddy is heading but with one extra entry level model. Cadillac should define modern American luxury and that is:

- Bold in design (Art & Science)
- Having adequate but not over the top power
- Excellent balance between performance and comfort. Doesn't have to rival BMW in handling but definitly shouldn't be a boulevard cruiser.
- Interior design, material and fit-n'-finish has to be class-leading. By that I meant BETTER than Lexus, MB and BMW.
- Good value, should undercut BMW/MB in every model. Price it around the Lexus range.
- Rival Lexus in both dealership and service experience (okay, gagrice, we get it now but let's face it, you are in the minority regarding the Lexus experience)

I think by accomplish the above criteria Cadillac has a chance to redefine "American luxury" and be competitive with other luxury marque in not just NA market but all over the world.

I am proposing the Caddy lineup to be:

BLS (or whatever you call it) - entry level sedan, sporty, RWD, about 3-series size, V6, 300HP, starting at $32K and topping off at $45K. Coupe version is welcome.

CTS - mid size sedan, sporty, RWD, standard V6 with optional V8, 300 - 400HP, starting at $45K and topping off at $60K.

STS - flagship full size sedan, RWD, standard V8 with optional V12, 350 - 500HP, starting at $65K and topping off at $100K.

CLR (or whatever you call it) - entry level roadster, V6, 350HP, starting at $40K and topping off at $55K.

XLR - halo roadster, standard V8 with optional V12, 400 - 550HP, starting at $70K and topping off at $100K.

CRX (or whatever you call it) - compact crossover, V6, 300HP, starting at $35K and topping off at $45K.

SRX - mid size crossover, standard V6 with optional V8, 300 - 400HP, starting at $50K and topping off at $70K.

Esclade - traditional full size SUV, standard V8, 350HP, starting at $60K and topping off at $90K

Factory tuned V version for BLS, CTS, STS, CLR and XLR.

Mr_Shiftright

Not bad, not bad, but you're not going to get those higher HP numbers out of a GM pushrod V-6 without turbos or SC. And ditch the XLR....you cannot sell Cadillacs over $100K and at $70K the car is already completely outclassed.

RE: Reliability -- that's certainly true, anecdotal evidence is a database of ONE, and that's it. But I'm working with more than that---I'm a big fan of longterm road tests and those definitely indicate to me that if I did buy a GM car I would not hold onto it more than 3 years. Which, for me, might be fine, as I generally don't hold onto cars longer than that.

Also, like you, I'm nervous about first year models from ANY car company, and that's where forums come in very handy.

I have to say I haven't been terribly encouraged about GM products by reading forums either (or for that matter, certain European cars).

One reason I bought a Scion for a second car was that when I went to Scions forums all over the 'net, all I heard was the chirp of crickets. This blessed silence has proven to be a good indicator of the extent on my problems, that is, zero, with either the car or the dealer.

THE POINT?

The point is that Cadillac's obstacles for the future ALSO revolve around a)customer feedback in public forums and b) the dealer service network.

Just about ANYBODY can make a reasonably reliable car these days, even the Koreans. That's only half the battle. I believe Cadillac will live or die in the service department as much as on the assembly line. Ditto the Germans. I think Lexus and Toyota are way ahead on this front.

louiswei

but you're not going to get those higher HP numbers out of a GM pushrod V-6 without turbos or SC.

I think the new HF 3.6 V6 has the potential of putting out 350HP.

imidazol97

>that when I went to Scions forums all over the 'net,

Are hosts allowed to go to other discussion forums?

Mr_Shiftright

Really? With no boosting, and getting good fuel mileage?

Well, okay, show me and I'll believe it. That's 100HP per liter with no turbo and old tech....mighty good numbers there.

louiswei

The HF 3.6 going into the 08' CTS is supposed to put out 300HP. With a little tweaking here and there I don't see the problem of it putting out another 50HP.

The Nissan VQ on the new G37 coupe is putting out 330HP and rumor has it that Toyota will tweak its 2GR-FSE to 350HP and drop it in the new Supra. If both Toyota and Nissan can do it I don't see the reason why GM can't.

BTW, the new GM 3.6 is DOHC with direct inject, not a pushrod.

rayainsw

Given my perception of the market segment where the STS is trying to compete ( against BMW 5, MB-E, M45, A6, etc. ) here is my answer . . .

If Caddy did ( against all odds ) decide they would actually build me something like the STS V8 Sport Sedan I have described above ( basically with only Sport Package & a few other individual options ) at what I consider a realistic price (say, low $50Ks), I would choose the Caddy because:

I prefer the STS’s styling to any other competitive sedan – possibly excepting the Jag S-Type R.

I like certain dynamic characteristics unique to V8s.

Eliminates the BMW 550 on price ( base = $58.5 ), and the exterior & interior styling of the current 5 is not to my taste.

The M-B E550 starts at $59K – and simply does not appeal to me. And the feel of the electronic brake system on the one recent E that I have driven would drive me nu-nu.

The Lexus 460 starts at $61K-ish

The A6 4.2L V8 is not particularly quick & it is rather ‘front heavy’, and I have no need for AWD – and the exterior, front styling must be an acquired taste ( ? ) – that I have yet to acquire.

The M45, while dynamically very good indeed in my 3 test drives, does virtually cry out for a 6 speed automatic – with 2,300 RPM at 60 MPH and near 3,000 at 80. Although Infiniti certainly seems to have confidence in the long term durability of the powertrain, with a 6/70,000 mile warrantee. And that gearing contributes to the M45’s rather brisk acceleration. But that gearing is also one reason the EPA ( & actual driver reported ) fuel mileage is not better.

The STS V8, now with the 6 speed automatic, has the potential to deliver very good acceleration, very good handling ( with the Sport Package), a feel of good balance, the low RPM at cruise that I strongly prefer - and reasonable fuel economy at cruise. At an attractive ( actual transaction ) price.

And yet - I fear, at this juncture, after seeing all that the 2007 version will ( not ) bring, that the STS will ‘die’ with tremendous, unrealized potential . . .

Just my 2HP worth . . .
- Ray
Asked occasionally; “Why a Corvette???”

Mr_Shiftright

50HP is a whole lotta tweaking, louis, and not cheap.

Is that engine really a 4-cammer, or just a SOHC on each bank of the V?

andres3

There are many roads I know in & around San Diego and out toward Anza Borrego, etc. where I am sure the Corvette would be more fun than any rental I can afford . . .

Care to share what roads those are in and around San Diego that you would suggest for anyone looking for some driving excitement in a nice automobile? What roads are your favorites?

lokki

I prefer the STS’s styling to any other competitive sedan – possibly excepting the Jag S-Type R.

I like certain dynamic characteristics unique to V8s.

These are the questions that I think that Caddy has to always give a unique answer to - American styling and real American torque. It's got to be the "ain't nuthin' else like it" answer.

By the way, on the Corvette I have two comments.

1. A Corvette, except in 'nameplate' is not a Chevy. It's a Corvette, a unique animal. It is also the flame that keeps GM alive in that it shows that GM CAN do, darn it, do it better than anybody when they choose.

2. The answer to the question, "Why a Corvette?" requires no answer except a smile, or perhaps a smile and "Because I can"

stever

What roads are your favorites?

I've been looking for a chance to plug the Article Comments: Demon Drives discussion - maybe y'all can take it over there.

San Diego county is huge and scenic!

rayainsw

While 50HP is indeed “a whole lotta tweaking” –
particularly when we are already talking about 300 HP out of 217 cu. in. –
at 6,700 RPM.

And yet, that rating is on regular gas.
So – another 10 HP might be possible with a re-tune specifically for premium.

Though that would bring the peak HP number oh so very close to the ( aging – and not so gracefully ) 320HP 4.6L V8 NorthStar. And that would present some ( um ) Marketing Challenges. ( Like Caddy does not have enough. ) So I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

We’ll see. . . .
- Ray
Interested to see what the torque curve for that 3.6 DI VVT looks like . . .

bumpy

The HF series is true DOHC. 350hp is possible from the 3.6, but it would require a compression ratio in the 13s, direct injection, very aggressive cams and fuel mappings, free flow intakes and exhausts, and possibly individual throttle bodies. Doable, but very costly and very high-strung; pretty much the antithesis of GM's corporate mindset.

Mr_Shiftright

Indeed...that is much more a European mindset on engine tuning than an American one. We are more the brute force department---which is fine---gets the job done with cubic inches.

lemko

Why Cadillac?

Because they're drop-dead gorgeous beautiful!!! Shoot, I've wanted one since I was three years-old and first saw my neighbor's sleek black 1963 Sedan DeVille.

If you say "Quality", people will say, "Lexus"

Lexus = boring! Why pay a premium for a car that drives like an old Buick? I'll stick with my 1988 Park Avenue, thank you!

If you say "Driving", people will say, "BMW"

Yeah, driving to the dealership for every minor issue that crops up that's going to cost me $1K every time. Not to mention I'd rather be considered an old codger, pimp, or a mafioso than a yuppie geek

If you were brave enough to say "Status", people will say
"Mercedes"

Yeah, maybe a W126 S-Class or older. A newer M-B just says a rich fool with a lot of money or a middle-class loser who's frontin'

andres3

If you say unique, high quality, all around great performance and safety, people will say, "Audi."

Mr_Shiftright

nope, that's the "rich fool theory" which supposes all rich people are stupid and that's why they buy foreign cars. That's a very shakey premise I think. It's no more fair than creating a "poor fool theory" and applying it to anyone who buys a Corvette rather than a Ferrari, because that's all they could afford.

lokki

Audi holds claim to the 4WD luxury sedan slot since the Quattro days.

Volvo has claimed the "Safe Luxury" element.

Acura? Can't answer that one.

Jaguar and Land Rover are easy though -

"Grace and Pace" for Jag and "Luxury even in life's jungles" for Rover.

Mini is trying to stake out the teeny-weeny luxo-car segment.

rockylee

I think you will see in a half decade to a decade, car prices drop like a rock. Middle Class americans with good incomes and/or saved for a short time could pleasure themselves by owning a Cadillac. It was within' reach and today the Seville or now known as the STS, has crossed the boundary of being affordable with V8 power.

You won't find much of a bigger Cadillac, fan than myself. I loved Cadillac's ever since the original Northstar came out in the early 90's in the Seville and Eldorado. That was the car I could picture myself driving once I got in at General Motors and work along side my father and at the time I though my grandfather as he was still working. Dad, told me if I was able to land a job at GM, when I was 18 he said I could afford a nice car like that if I was conservative in other area's and didn't buy other toys and your Cadillac, was your toy. So that was my plan as a teenager. Well I was 23 years old when I baught my first Northstar Cadillac, a 2002 Seville STS used. I of course wasn't single and had other responsibility's then and didn't buy a new one. I however would love to pull the trigger on a 08' STS V8 but the MSRP on one will likely be $65K by then with the new BLISS and Lane Departure system options. It is utter ridiculous how much these cars have gotten. :surprise: I'd love to own one still but GM, hasn't ran a good lease deal at least around here ever on V8's. :sick:

I think most americans are sick and tired of not getting what they want and if they get what they want their is a "badge fee" of $10-20K or more. A Lexus, has easily crossed the $70K boundary for the LS. Acura, has the RL, but without a V8. The M45 Infiniti can get in the $60K range just like the Volvo S80. So this means your average american with Lexus and Cadillac tastes are looking for alternatives.

Who is going to make those alternatives that give the consumer the product he/she wants without the badge mark-up ?

Rocky

rockylee

I was born in 78' so your down to 4 fingers.

Rocky

andres3

Acura stands for "superb BANG for your Buck Performance FWD!"

lemko

Who is going to make those alternatives that give the consumer the product he/she wants without the badge mark-up ?

It should be Buick! I know it is my altenative in lieu of a Cadillac.

stever

You say Iams, Science Diet or Alpo.

I say Menu Foods with different branding. Often higher price for the same stuff wrapped in fancy packaging.

I find myself doing that a lot with cars - you say Lexus, I think Toyota. Ditto Infiniti/Nissan, Acura/Honda, Volvo or Land Rover/Ford, Mercedes/Chrysler, etc.

And Cadillac? I used to think our '53 Buick was hot - it had Body by Fisher stamped on the door sills. Then I started noticing the same label on Chevys, Olds and Caddys.

I'm sticking with Purina.

rockylee

Well the problem is one automaker is making Cadillac STS's at Buick LaCrosse prices. That will throw a wrench into the spokes. :surprise:

Rocky

mediapusher

Since when is a red circle considered a good thing?
______________________________--
Toyota still has all the red circles anyone could ask for, for all of their many models. Porsche is not known for anything but black circles when it comes to reliability.

mediapusher

And if you say, "Cadillac", many people automatically think gauche and tacky / style but no substance

________________________________________________
reference text::::
If you say "Quality", people will say, "Lexus"

Lexus = boring! Why pay a premium for a car that drives like an old Buick? I'll stick with my 1988 Park Avenue, thank you!

mediapusher

Uhhh, excuse me, but my Toyota Corolla is ten years old in terms of driving miles and the only time I've had it in the shop is for things that a person would expect to fix after 170,000 miles. The transmission was replaced at 160,000 and I've had a couple of wheel bearings replaced. That's it. So don't try and speak for everyone.

You can sing the praises of General Motors all you want. If their cars are so great, then why did they face this exodus in the past when people voted in droves with their wallets for Toyota, Hondas, etc. And people still are. There's a good reason for it.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's an interesting article on Toyota which contains some hint as to what might save Cadillac's butt in the luxury car market after all....it has nothing to do with quality either...

Toyota As #1 in the World

mediapusher

I don't want my dishwasher to be completely silent. We had one of those, An Asko. It was a fine machine, but talk about boring. We constantly had to bend down and put our ear to it to make sure it was running. That's too quiet! I need my noise...

________________________________________

reference text: My dishwasher is completely silent

mediapusher

Desperate is putting it mildly. The Cimarron screamed desperate, so did the Catera and the Allante and their Toyota Corolla sized Eldorados and Sevilles.

No one has answered my earlier question on here as to why the Opel in Germany is a decent car, but as the Cadillac Catera over here, it tanked pathetically.
___________________________________
Possible, but unlike Benz or Lexus, to make a Cadillac into a Cavalier seemed like a very desperate act---provoking the question: how could GM have put itself into THAT kind of situation?

aldw

I've got a Toyota Camry 16 years old, less than 110,000 with enough bills to pay for 3 transmissions and have seen GM vehicles with 3 times the miles and same vintage need only a belt replacement.

aldw

When the new UltraV8 comes to replace the Northstar, it will certainly be something worth shouting about.

andres3

Red circles have been a great thing since Consumer Reports was born.

mediapusher

It's not BS, you don't know the facts. The Sigma transmission is French and it's the same transmission used in BMW's. The Cadillac Escalades are also built in Canada. How's that for buying "American"?

Perhaps they have made changes when it comes to the logistics of their trasmissions since the inception of the Sigma platform cars, however that's how it was in the beginning

I agree that at first I mentioned something regarding the Sigma platform, I meant to say trasmission.

__________________________

The amount of BS here is just unbelievable, Escalades are built in Arlington, Texas, and the Sigma Platform was designed, and built, in the US, specifically at Lansing Grand Rapids. Your ignorance and bias is most telling...

mediapusher

That's your experience. Generalizations aren't fair. My experience with Asian cars has been very different.

And perhaps you need to stop buying cars with all the gadgets, gizmos, and hoo-hah's on them. And another word of advice, stay away from automatic transmissions.
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reference text:::::
by aldw Apr 11, 2007 (3:59 pm)
Replying to: mediapusher (Apr 11, 2007 3:37 pm)

I've got a Toyota Camry 16 years old, less than 110,000 with enough bills to pay for 3 transmissions and have seen GM vehicles with 3 times the miles and same vintage need only a belt replacement.

rockylee

Lansing Grand Rapids

I think you meant to say Lansing, Grand River Plant as Grand Rapids, is my hometown in Michigan.

Rocky

rockylee

LOL, well why should one have to pick a different model because they can't get it right ? You wouldn't give that fair assessment torwards GM, vehicles if their were known failures with a particular part. You would generalize and lump that particular model as GM junk. :P

Rocky