Toyota 4Runner

martin45

I too have the the sulfer smell. It is really bad when the rear window and two back door windows are open. I have a 03 SR5 V8. Between the smell and not being given the option of the appearance package, (bought in dec 02) I would take my 99 SR5 back in a minute!

It is not the gas type, it is the engineering of the truck. Stop with the gas type already. As for not driving with the windows open, that is outrageous.

Toyota really missed on this one, and they are not accepting responsibility!

Buy the Explorer. You will be happy. This SUV is over rated.

cliffy1

I'm impressed. You've taken apart the 4Runner to the point that you can conclusively say, "it is the engineering of the truck." My hat's off to you. You're a better mechanic than is employed by Toyota.

martin45

As evident by your post, your interest in Toyota appears to be much greater than mine. It was a typical reply.

Some of the posts here regarding the sulfur smell are amusing. It is the fuel type, don’t drive too fast, and my favorite; don’t drive with the windows open. Sure, lets spend $30 something thousand and not be in the position to comfortably open the windows on a nice day to enjoy some fresh air. Or let’s find that right grade and brand of gasoline that will magically cure the sulfur problem, and the next time you are running low on fuel nervously keep driving until you find the correct gas station.

The 2003 4Runner does not have to be thoroughly examined to see, or in this case smell, that there is a problem that does not involve a third party. The problem lies with the 2003 vehicle manufactured by Toyota. Toyota, or any other car manufacturer, who will not accept responsibility for a problem they created, will only result in disgruntled customers who will not purchase future vehicles from them.

I liked my 99 4Runner enough to get the 2003. But I will not be back for another unless this problem is corrected. I ask…...why make the same mistake twice?

Shop around people, and do not take any salesman’s word that that this problem will mysteriously correct itself. After 4,000 miles, you too will still be waiting.

Have a nice day.

intmed99

vaughn4

Could it be that the truck stinks more so than the previous years' 4 Runners becasue the tail-pipe on the older Runners' curves out to the right side of the truck and the new one has the pipe right below the rear window? If this has anything to do with it, Toyota really missed the mark on this obvious detail. If the window rolls down any reasonably minded engineer would know that the pipe should not be placed so close to the back window. Also, don't most SUVs' have the pipe curved out to the side of the vehicle anyway? Look at the Tahoe and Expedition pipes...They always say don't buy a first year model until the bugs are worked out; boy isn't that the truth!!! And to think I traded in a perfectly good 02 Mustang GT on this stink bomb...

andrews928

"It is not the gas type, it is the engineering of the truck." Stop with the gas type already."
I have an 03 Limited and I DO NOT HAVE THE SMELL. So much for the engineering theory. You cannot possibly come to this conclusion with the limited analysis that you have done, or you can, but it has zero credibility and its just another opinion.

andrews928

Since the GX470 has so much in common with our 03 4Runners I posted a question regarding the smell on one of the Lexus message boards. Lets see what happens.

nismoedge

I have a V8 Limited, use Mobil 87 and never have had a problem with the smell and I live in Rockland County NY, never really drive with the rear window down, on my Pathfinder sitting at lights with the rear window open I smelled to much exhaust, clears the headache up though.

I do have the squeeking seats which is getting louder or longer by the day, has anyone had this seat squeek problem fixed

fishingguy

I have V8 4X4 with 700 miles and definitely notice the smell with two conditions 1) back window open and 2) heavy acceleration above speeds of 35mph or so. I DO NOT notice the smell any other time. This for me is definitely not an issue that would have me reconsidering my purchase. Looks some crafty person going to make a mint selling a tail pipe extender that curves the pipe out to the side a few inches... hmmm.

onyeiii

I have an '03 V8, sport, 4x4, ~5500 miles. I have noticed the sulphur smell once or twice which I think was associated with a tank of gas purchased out of town. I have been driving fairly conservatively with little hard acceleration, and not many hills in my area. I keep the rear window up when driving. Live in Oklahoma.

One other thing! I have always run 91 octane.

pat84

I took a 700 mile round trip this last weekend. On the way down I got about 17 1/2 MPG. This was all highway but in the rain. Traffic was really slow at about 50 MPH average.
 With 150 local miles 30 -45 MPH with lots of red lights and about 1/2 hour in LO on the beach, I only got 16. I am not sure but, Lo range seems to have more fuel consumption. On the way back. I figured with over 3500 miles on it, it was totally broken in. I was averaging about 65-75 keeping up with traffic, in mostly 65 speed limits. I got 18.35. The computer on the dash has always over estimated actual MPG by about 2 more. It read 20.7 for 18.35 actual, for example. That's with a V-8 Sport on 87 Octane

mechfred1

I have 3000 miles on this limited V/6 and no smell.On 1800 mile trip from Cal. to AZ. I got 17.35 on trip mostly high speed in desert.On board computor said 19.2.This SUV is all I expected of it and more.I am a certified mechanic since 1958 and know about how to check gas milage and know if it smells.I have also tested the uphill and douwhill assist and it works but is quite noisy and any good driver would not need it.I have owned lots of 4 wheel drive vehicles and a 4x4 Yamaha kodiac 400 quad.I am 74 years old and remember when you had to fix your vehicles a lot more often than now.A part time 4x4 means you can use it part time in 4 wheel drive like not on hard roads that will cause binding and damage drive train parts.fred

djod49

Dumeel: Right (Wright?)Toyota in Scottsdale had three SR5's with appearance packages on the lot as of 3/20. Can't remember if they were V6's 0r V8's or if they were two or four wheel drives. I'm a pilot and travel quite a bit and these were the first SR5's I've seen with the appearance pkg. Most dealers are in the dark (or aren't saying) about the appearance pkg. in order to unload the cladding equipped vehicles.

cliffy1

I don't want Martin to think I am not sympathetic to his problem. I don't recall... did you talk to your dealer's service director yet? There is obviously something going on with your vehicle. It may be the gas in your area or specific to a station you use. I could have something to do with your driving habits. It could be the truck. More than likely, it is a combination of the three. I hope you can get it resolved but I also hope you don't go flying off the handle and making statements about engineering that you can't possibly back up.

Were I you, I would start with a discussion with your dealer's service director. Have him ride along with you. I've worked with several service directors and each of them would have been happy to ride along for something like this. If the smell is as overwhelming as you say, he'll smell it. That should start you off to a solution.

I would also try other gas stations and I would pay attention to what conditions cause it the worst. Be honest about your driving habits. Very few people are reporting smells beyond the heavy acceleration situations.

martin45

The problem of the exhaust entering the cabin is widespread as evident by the amount of complaints Toyota has received in such a short amount of time, and the time and effort they have invested. Toyota is hiding under the protection of stating that it is a problem with the gasoline refined this time of year. They have received many complaints about this problem, researched it, and concluded that the recent production of gasoline is the cause. Call Toyota customer service, you will hear the same BS. Absolutely ridiculous, and they have many people believing it.

It is really simple. Fill up any amount of cars and SUVs that you would like from a single gas station and also fill you 4Runner. Drive them using the same driving conditions you would as your 4Runner, and post your results. You will find the smell to be isolated to the 4Runner. And if you have a V8, did you buy it not accelerate at your comfort? To even have to do such a test to prove something so absurd is disgraceful.

The bottom line is the exhaust entering the cabin was a major miss by Toyota. If they do decide to accept responsibility for their mistake and correct the problem, it will come as no short term cost to them. A total estimated repair cost will be determined by Toyota to recall all the vehicles made during a certain period, and that cost will be passed on to future buyers.

The choice is yours. As for me, I have less than three years on a vehicle that I am looking forward to getting rid of.

nippononly

has always been that way - drive with only the rear window open, and it sucks in the exhaust. There is a warning about it in the manual. It is OK if you open the front windows too.

It is like those old wagons with tailgate windows - same thing - the vacuum in the back sucks in the exhaust because of the tailwind the car creates as it moves.

reddfish

Toyota is fully aware of the toxic?/stinky emissions from some part of their engine configuration. Their TSB acknowledges this fact or occurrence.If a potential buyer was made aware of this critical factor prior to purchase, it could have dire consequences for the dealer/company. For Toyota to deny responsiblity for a mistake in their design could be expected, but to attempt to add responsibility for correcting their mistake by rotating gas purchasing procedures is as rotten as the smell coming from some of these vehicles. I spent almost an hour with a dealer and a "rep", with no resolution, even after their service manager rode in the truck and acknowledged the problem. If my previous Toyota SUV can go 185,000 miles using the same gas without a problem, why does a new model have this major one?

reddfish

One last comment, it doesn't just happen when the back window(s) are down. It comes through the a/c ducts as well, when the windows are up.

jdknight

Has anyone had any success in rejecting port accessories which the distributor plans to add to the Toyota 4 Runner Ltd. The vehicle is still in transit (on the sea). In particular, P4-vehicle shield package-lusterizing sealant ($349); B4-the extra mile package ($797); and WD-Wind Deflector ($69). These appear to be a way to get substantial extra profit. The vehicle already has RF (Rear Spoiler). Does anyone know the dealer cost of these options? It couldn't be much. Floor mats use to come with cars from the factory. Is the charge just extra profit?

beercoll1

Martin....you should check out some other manufacturer sites here at Edmunds. You will find that the problem is not isolated to 4-runners. The problem is intermittent among most manufacturers. As I stated in my own case, the only time I experience the smell is when I accelerate too hard. I have been driving with the windows open(Front, Back, Tailgate, and Sunroof), as the cold weather is leaving the northeast.

kzoo1

It seems that the smell issue is only from the V8, are there any V6 owners out there who have noticed this problem?

I've driven both and am leaning toward the V8, in which I noted the smell only under hard acceleration but would consider the V6 as I don't plan on doing much towing.

I appreciate all the advice/info on this board.

joatmon

Re: Runner by nippononly Mar 24, 2003 (9:34 pm)
has always been that way - drive with only the rear window open, and it sucks in the exhaust. There is a warning about it in the manual. It is OK if you open the front windows too.

Well, my experience doesn't back this up. My 97 Runner has 101k. I would estimate over half the miles were with the rear window down. I've never noticed an exhaust odor or objectionable smell. I do know objectionable smells becuase of former GM vehicles (never GM again).

Jack

pat84

I tried driving with the rear passenger windows down and the rear window open to see if I could smell the sulfur odor as if I had dogs in the back. The resonant wind oscillation was incredible. I had too put the front windows down too. I did notice just regular exhaust coming in the rear window. No sulfur odor, just exhaust. I have never smelled the sulfur smell inside with the A/C running, even under hard acceleration. I have the V-8 also.

reddfish

I considered trading my V8 for a V6 because of the smell, but there was a post a few weeks ago about someone experiencing the smell problem with a V6 on a test drive. If Toyota offered me a V6 for my V8, I would probably do it, even though I tow a boat occasionally. Just my opinion.

martin45

My previous vehicle was a 99 SR5. I drove it with every possible window and climate control configuration possible. Never was there any smell of exhaust. Is Toyota going to tell me that the refinement of gasoline during that time was acceptable? I laugh each time I hear that Toyota and their believers pass the blame to the assumed recent poor production gasoline. I can purchase gasoline for my BMW from the most rundown, drug and crime infested neighborhood in Canada and not smell a single bit of exhaust.

The exhaust problem with the 2003 4Runner cannot be healthy, and must be addressed further by Toyota.

This problem is not just limited to the members of this relatively small message board. There are, and unfortunately will be, many owners of the 2003 4Runner that will be part of this unpleasant misfortune.

As recommended by Toyota, I am bringing my 4Runner in for service. As I stated in a previous post, they are aware of the problem, and aside from requesting a change in gasoline, they want the vehicle checked out and the problem documented. My appointment is 03/26/03. It will most probably be a waste of time, but I will comply.

Call Toyota customer service and be heard.

The 2003 4Runner is a mistake. We may see it up there someday with the Ford Pinto.

jaredmsd

Isn't using 'Canada' and 'drug and crime infested' in the same sentence an oxymoron?

pat84

I can purchase gasoline for my BMW from the most rundown, drug and crime infested neighborhood in Canada.
Is there a town in NJ named Canada ?

martin45

Using Canada was a joke; to some. I just wanted to add some light to this dreadful position some of us are in.

Please, no more insults. I thought it was bad enough to be shackled to this disastrous 2003 4Runner, but now I am pegged as residing in NJ. Please, I am from NY!

cliffy1

I apologize for my previous post where I actually took you seriously and attempted to help. That was an obvious error on my part. Your sanctimonious response indicates to me that you are not interested in solutions but rather in complaining.

In your response, you claim to know how many complaints Toyota has received. You claim to know that Toyota's research is "BS". You make the error of assuming older cars will behave like new ones that meet ULEV standards. You use the word "disgraceful" in the context of trying different gas stations (I think most of us would agree that there is no disgrace in shopping for a fuel that meets our needs). You also make health claims that are unsubstantiated.

Conjecture is not an argument, nor will it solve your problems. At this point, I'm not sure what would for you.

martin45

I am a realist, and I hate having to state the obvious. I am not going to debate with you or anyone else the 2003 4Runner problem(s) and pathetic solutions offered up by Toyota. Aside from despising the vehicle, I am interested in a solution but I am not interested in wasting my time with the BS from car dealers and manufacturers. Toyota not being straight with the problem only adds to the frustration.

"Shopping for a fuel that meets our needs", and fishing for a fuel to magically cure a problem are two entirely different things. I refuse to let Toyota control where I buy fuel, and dictate my driving habits especially with a V8 4X4. Clearly you don't mind.

I don't recall the nature of your vehicle problem, but if it isn't the exhaust you are far from a position to comment on the healthiness of the problem. It is so brutal at times that a person has difficulty breathing. So, take a step back.

I am bringing this piece of junk to the dealer tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to post positive results.

You should read you posts before submitting them.

toyotaken

I second cliffy on this one too. You refuse to see that this is an issue with almost if not all manufacturers now. Your '98 4runner didn't have the same emissions systems or requirements mandated on vehicles sold today, so it is entirely possible that it didn't have the same effect with the same gasoline.

If all you want to do is complain and not participate in trying to solve this problem that YOU are having, then I don't have much sympathy. If you're trying to participate in the solution, and you're not having any results, that would be different. But like many others now, you don't want to have any responsibility but want solutions. Sometimes we all must participate in finding solutions.

Just my $.02

Ken

vodgut

So the V8 4Runner is ULEV? I had been trying to figure that out with a quick web search, but didn't get anything right offhand. If so, cool. What about the V6?

I did notice just a touch of sulfur smell the other day, but only after I exited the vehicle, and it was pretty soon after I'd done a quick throttle mash at the beginning of the street before parking it further down. It really wasn't that bad. I do like to mash the throttle a fair amount (gotta love that sound and flat torque curve) but have never noticed the smell inside the vehicle. I don't put the rear window down, but I've had all 4 other windows and the sunroof open and didn't notice anything then.

I'm leaving on a road trip with my 4Runner tomorrow, I'll try and see if I can notice it with different gasolines in different states.

This is a wonderful vehicle and it would be a shame if the stink went unfixed. So far, I love mine. As a software engineer, though, I understand that when complex systems (like software, or a vehicle) are not operating correctly in a subtle way (even if the effects are not subtle), that it often requires the user to demonstrate the conditions that are leading to the problem, before a diagnosis and repair can be made.

The only thing that worries me about reading this whole thread is Toyota's seemingly premature dismissal of the problem as gasoline additive. Seems that some vehicles have it, some don't, and that varies by manufacturer, vehicle type, or even between the same vehicle (again, my 4Runner doesn't really display this problem). I could see where trying to figure out what's different about the ones that stink is not an easy process, and will take participation of those experiencing the problem in order to find the common thread, or combination of factors, whether it be a defect in the vehicle or something else.

pat84

You may be allergic to sulfur, and that is why you have trouble breathing in a sulfur odor exhaust environment. Your children may have inherited your allergies.
Taking out your frustration on those here who honestly were offering advice, doesn't help your situation.
 Going into a dealership with an attitude that they are going to offer "pathetic solutions" isn't going to win any favors from Toyota.
  You may want to step back and rethink what your objective is and how you are going to handle this problem.

leodogs

Martin45: Cliffy means well, however if I'm not mistaken his income is derived from the sale of Toyotas. If he doth protest too much, perhaps he is missing the forest from the trees. He is warranted however in suggesting that we all work towards a solution that in the end would benefit everyone - most assuredly himself.
So toyotaken, I called Toyota after having visited my dealer with the smell problem and my solution (not hearing any from them) was to redesign the tailpipe so that it extends out to the side and not directly beneath the tailgate window. I'm even willing to spend my own bucks to get this done. Their official response:
1. It will void the warranty on the vehicle if I did this.
2. A regurgitation of the company line: "Change the gas you're using." When I told the young lady I've tried that and have now run out of gasoline brands in CT she repeated her mantra. When I said, "that didn't work, what do you suggest I do now?", her response was, "Change the ..." you get the idea.

cliffy1

Make sure you got the quote correct. Was it, ". It will void the warranty on the vehicle if I did this." or was it something closer to "It will void that warranty on that portion of the vehicle." Even if it was the first, they are wrong. You can change anything you want and the only impact on the warranty is that the part in question and anything that part impacts will not be covered. By fitting a new tailpipe, you will have no impact on your ABS sensors so those sensors will still be covered.

vodgut

Those of you with the smell problem, have you tried different grades of gas (premium vs. regular) versus just different brands?

It also seems some of the old gas in the tank would still be there, so the closer you let it get to empty before refilling, the more you'd dilute the old, bad stuff still in the tank (if it is indeed a gas problem). Maybe try a few gallons of stuff at a time, with the tank near empty at the end, to make sure it's mostly new gas you're using?

bjperlman

FWIW, I'm up to 450 miles in my '03 Sport V6 4x4, and I have not noticed any abnormal smells in the car or in my garage(other than that great new car aroma when you first open the doors).

I tried running the A/C, and still didn't smell anything weird.

I've only filled up once so far, and I used Oregon regular.

Interestingly, I did have a sulfur smell problem with my '93 BMW 325, but I didn't smell it in the car, just in my garage.

Barry

martin45

I surely appreciate the assistance of each of you. As I mentioned earlier, I am bringing the vehicle in to Toyota service tomorrow, 03/26/03, for the exhaust entering the cabin problem. I will remain optimistic, but I will not accept the answer of change the brand and grade the gasoline. But then again, I may have to.

Is there anyone on this board that is employed by Toyota and is aware of this problem?

cliffy1

I am, but I'm through with your snipes.

tomcat83

I haven't noticed the sulfer smell in my 2003 Limited V8 yet. I did a little looking around and found that this is happening to a lot of different makes and models. Take a look at this link.

www.brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1999JUN/10012012.shtml

sdavidson1

For what its worth, my wife and I recently drove our 2000 Acura 3.5RL from NW Ark to the Dallas/Ft Worth area. On the return trip, we noticed the sulfur smell. Of course we accused each other with no success. During the 6 hour trip we had the smell occur 3 or 4 times. We have not had the problem again. Sure made me think it was gas, I mean fuel.

world_traveler

Do any of you have pics of your 03 4Runner (any model) in real life situation (in the driveway, pulling something, doing some offroad, dirty after an offroad session, sparkling clean after being washed, etc).

I've seen many 03 on the street (usually very dirty because of winter) and at the dealer but none in in the conditions mentionned above.

Sorry if this request seems odd but I'm wondering how the new 4Runner looks in a normal environment. For example I think that the Honda Pilot look really odd in a driveway.

Thanks all !!!

martin45

Snipes aside, what is said at your place employment regarding the smell entering the 2003 4Runner. How are they dealing with the customer complaints?

claddingsuxs

With all the complaints toyota has gotten on the cladding.....do you think they will ever offer the port option for existing sr5 owners? Afterall...there are plenty of sr5 with claddings sitting on the dealers lots being passed up for ones with appearnace packages.

leodogs

Cliffy: Thanks for your response. The original quote was correct. I called a second time, spoke to a different rep and was told that if any modifications made to the vehicle causes a problem, Toyota will not be responsible under the warranty terms. If redesigning the tailpipe, so that it exhausts to the side could help - what harm could it cause? I then asked this rep that since the TSB identifies the sulfur smell as a result of a gasoline problem only, what gasoline does Toyota recommend? His reply was to keep trying any major brand. Isn't that exactly what most of us with the problem have been doing? I then suggested that maybe Toyota should (if they're confident that this is in fact the problem) after they've researched "the major brands", include in their next TSB which brand - specific to which region. No comment. Look, there's no question that Toyota has a major problem, they're obviously working to rectify it, but...at this point they haven't found a solution. I'm willing to wait a little longer because I love the vehicle - just can't endure the daily smell - and shouldn't have to.

islander3

I had my decision made: '03 4Runner Limited w/Nav. The dealer gave me a V8 to drive this wkend (acutally it will be my wife's primary vehicle). My opinion? A terrific vehicle - tight, stable, quiet, powerful, capable. Easy decision. My wife's opinion? "Why aren't there arm rests on the front seats?" "Why do the controls look like gears?"

"The car is too narrow for both arm rests and the console" I explained - "The gear-shaped controls are very functional!"

But then we looked at the Lexus GX. Yup - arm rests on the front seats. No gear-shaped controls. Tight, stable, quiet, powerful, capable.

Expensive.

No longer an easy decision. Any experienced comments? Is the GX worth the extra $$? How much extra?

And p.s.: I have followed the Land Cruiser board for a few years and I want say that there are people posting information on both this board and the LC board that have extensive knowledge about Toyota vehicles and have been a tremendous resource for a lot of people (e.g., me). The gas smell discussion here has an unpleasant odor itself that I hope can be resolved. It would be tragic if anyone stopped posting due to a lack of demonstrated mutual respect. Used wisely, these boards have a long legacy of helping individuals and groups resolve problems. I hope we don't lose that!

bigorange30

I have a friend that dealt with gasoline refineries and truckers that deliver the gas to the stations. They told me that all kinds/brands of delievery tankers pull up and fill up at the same refineries. Therefore, the differences between brands of gas are really non-existent. I also heard one time, from another source, that the premium and regular came out of the same tank. Now, I don't believe the latter but I do the former because it came from what I consider a reliable source.

Changing brands of gas as a fix for this problem is absolutely laughable. Surely they can come up with something better. Toyota is really disrespecting the customer alot lately with this and the oil sludge problem. This will come back to haunt them if they don't straighten these problems out and stop blaming consumers. I am becoming more and more happy that I decided against a Toyota and am certainly thinking hard about whether they will be in the running on future cars or not.

martin45

At first I thought perhaps you were joking about wanting a picture of a 2003 4Runner sitting idle in a driveway for your viewing pleasure. But after giving your question a second thought, I reached a decision that your request was valid. Please don’t ask me why.

Since I do not have a picture of your request, may I ask that for a second you imagine the following to satisfy your curiosity? Picture a huge mountain of crap, piled high and stretching long across your driveway. Now add to that image the smell of the worst dogs breath you have ever experienced, and as clear as the sun rising in the morning on a bright summers day, you will have a vivid image along with the infamous smell of a brand new 2003 Toyota 4Runner.

Now go out and buy your vehicle! Hurry. Congratulations for you World Traveler!

andrews928

Although I completely disagree with your assumptions on the sulfer smell I certainly believe you have a real problem. Why some but not others, no clue. If I did not get a resolution to this problem I would let Toyota know you will contact the NHTSA and report the problem and you will also ask people on this message board to report the problem. Although I am no big fan of most government agencies the NHTSA will have to look into it if enough people complain. Now, just the threat to Toyota might avoid this whole thing.

andrews928

The biggest difference you will find is the price. The 4Runner is discounted, the GX470 is not. You should be able to get the 4Runner with nav for around $ 38,000. (List around 42,000) price out the GX470 with basically the same options. Price is around $50,000, discount ZERO. Price difference $ 12,000. That's why I bought a 4Runner. This was in January and from what I read on the Lexus message boards things have not changed.