Toyota 4Runner

mechfred1

You all may have a problem but when you road tested and it smelled to you and your family why did you buy it? Or are you saying it was ok and smelled later?If the latter and whithin a reasanable time even after you took delivery you could make them give you a unit that does not smell or refund your money or fix it.Look it up under lemon law it clearly states that.I have used that section in the lemon law and got a differant 2002 chev. silverado Z71 after the dealer could not fix it.I told martin about this and do not know why he did not quote the dealer of his rights.Again if it smelled when you bought it you should not of took it.How could it not smell on your road tests whitch probably was more than one 4 runner, it should have been 3 or 4 to be sure it was ok and the one you bought shoul have been tested the most.Fred.

wwest

Read the series of posts at:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cars/msg0122241726983.html?2- - 8789

virgiesmom

Is Roanoke or Richmond Va in the Central Virginia area?

rickwil61

I don't think it's quite as cut and dry as you're presenting it. For instance, when I bought my V6 4Runner there was an odor coming from the exhaust but the salesman explained to me that it was because it was a new vehicle and the odor would go away, which in my case it did. But really, I don't think it's unusual if a new car has a temporary exhaust odor until it gets broken in. So I understand how someone could end up buying a car that stinks but has the expectation that it will go away after break-in.

nippononly

rapidly becoming a one-track thread!

cliffy1

Yes, Roanoke is in the CAT region. Your local dealer is Haley of Roanoke and I happen to know the GSM there. He is a guy named Chuck. Tell him Steve said hello.

The $500 is not a "rebate" in the way it is normally presented. It is money that the dealer gets from the manufacturer. It also expires at close of business tonight.

mechfred1

It went away but if it did not it is cut and dried period.Check the LEMON LAW SITE.This is not only about the smell but any problem you find within a reasonable time that is not right.This is to help people that find a problem after taking delivery.Fred.

kjack100

Agreed. No stench in Alabama. Well a little, but it's not my '03 V8. I always wondered if it was competing Acura/Nissan/pick your manufacturer's sales folks who might post negatively to no end on here.

I have not gone off road, so I will leave that input to the experts but here are my
pluses, gimmicks and improvements that could be made to this vehicle:

Pluses:

The V8 power, handling, steering feel are incredible. I am loving this awd. These pluses far out weigh the niggling complaints to follow. I am coming out of a '98 which was a part-time 4wd. The awd really adds confidence. The wife always felt like she was driving a truck in the '98, no longer. After a five hour drive, you are a lot more rested, if that makes sense.

The wider body adds some good space up front and for the middle passengers.

I am really high on the rear air suspension. The '98 sagged alot with a heavy rear load. The rear air suspension does a great job compensating for that. Looking forward to trying a trip with a trailer soon. The nav system is also first rate. The new rear seat fold-down was done well. The telescoping steering well improves driving position a ton. I like the info center.

Gimmicks:
- the rear seat trash bag holder
- the rear shelf(really eats up some good space)
- dual climate control

Improvements that could be made, no particular order:

- Satellite radio option
- voltmeter and oil pressure gauges needed.
- easier access to the oil filter
- lighted window controls
- a 12 volt cig lighter adapter in the dash not the console where you have to open a hinged compartent
- needs a hand emergency brake, not the foot one.
- need a neutral position available for the transfer case switch.
- brakes are a hair spongy.
- needs a mute button for the steering wheel audio controls.
- needs an idiot buzz for when you leave your lights on in the non-auto position.
- (don't cringe intermed), the cup holders are too big in front and not deep enough, maybe just a poor design. If you have three people in the rear, there are no cup holders since you can't fold out the arm rest.
- color selection could be better.
- mpg's: 17 highway, 13 city. will improve, I'm sure.
- someone nailed the trailer hitch assembly when they said it looked like it was welded in a high school shop class.
- did someone say third row seat(OPTION).
- and the previously mentioned shifter design.

...my four cents. Overall, a massive improvement from a '98.

rickwil61

No disagreement with you on the lemon law. What I was addressing are the following statements you made.

"You all may have a problem but when you road tested and it smelled to you and your family why did you buy it? Or are you saying it was ok and smelled later?"

"Again if it smelled when you bought it you should not of took it.How could it not smell on your road tests whitch probably was more than one 4 runner, it should have been 3 or 4 to be sure it was ok and the one you bought shoul have been tested the most."

The point I was making is that just because a person took possession of a new vehicle that had an odor coming from the exhaust, does not mean that they were wrong for doing that. You said that if the exhaust had an odor they should not of took it. What I'm saying is that sometimes new cars have an exhaust odor but it does not mean that there's a problem because often the odor goes away after break in. If it doesn't then obviously there is a problem. But it is not apparent on a test drive if the odor is a problem or a temporary condition.

mrshenry2002

I agree with you about some of the improvements that could be made. I thought the fact that the window / door controls were no longer lit was pretty silly ! That was a feature in my 93! It makes it difficult to unlock passenger doors in the dark. I also agree that the cig lighter adapter shouldn't be where it is...I always have my cell phone hooked up, so the door's always opened.
I left my lights on all day once (I think they DID go off after some time though?). It was raining and I needed more than just the DTRL on...it's the law in La...

Also if white / taupe leather would have been avail in the limited would probably have gone with it instead of the dorado gold...although I get many compliments on the color.

OH, and it's a V6 ...NO SULPHUR SMELL...just in case anyone was courious.

LOVED MY 93...LOVE MY 03 !

mechfred1

Anyone old enough to drive and who owned cars trucks and any mechanical things new or used should know normal sounds and smells are ok but smells and noises and bad fit and finish that are not normal as smells that make one sick as some claim even with windows closed are not going to go away.Fred.

nippononly

Toyota had not done away with oil and voltmeters (went after 1995) and completely lit internal window switches (ditto). Both of these were cost-cutting measures on Toyota's part that they maybe thought no-one would notice...people noticed! I think trucks really ought to have oil pressure and volt readouts. Land Cruiser still does, I think.

And for anyone who wants a third row seat, and is willing to pony up for a limited 4Runner: you can get the GX470 with the third seat, right? And it goes for a little more than a loaded limited V-8.

pat84

I concur that that all those switches should be lit. Not just one window switches. What did that save them $10 per vehicle ? $10 on a $+30K vehicle. They could at least offer that as option as well as AMP and oil gauges.
 The engineer who designed that little console box with the 12V cigarette lighter receptacle, under a lid, should be given his pink slip. "Clear out your desk, Kinji"
  The brakes on my V-8 Sport are not at all spongy. They are excellent. I did brake them in properly. Traffic was very accommodating. I have not to really had to get on them yet. I have over 3700 miles and I have yet to use the anti lock feature, or the VSC, not even in the snow.
  I am extremely satisfied with this vehicle.

vodgut

I've just gotten back after taking my new '03 V8 LTD 4WD on a 2300 mile road trip.

I filled up in all of the following states: Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. No where along the trip did I notice any sort of bad smell eminating from the vehicle.

I computed the gas mileage for every fillup on the trip. It varied between 14.88 and 17.31. Generally, the faster I went the worse the mileage. The tanks that gave me around 15 mpg were generally done at 80mph, whereas the 17mpg tanks were doing between 60 and 70. Guess if you want to save gas, slow down. Total average for the trip was 15.75mpg. The trip computer said 17.2. Guess it felt more optimistic. I don't imagine the coefficient of drag on the new 4Runner is all that good, so going faster you end up pushing a lot of air around, reducing mileage. Anyone know what the CD is for this vehicle?

With 15/19 EPA ratings, this isn't terribly surprising to me. Taking my 19/27 EPA Audi A4 on road trips, I generally got about 3mpg or so less than the highway EPA rating. It's definitely a thirsty vehicle, but I expected it, so I can't complain too loudly.

So far, both my wife and I love this vehicle. Very comfortable for the road trip with 2 of us, and handled the luggage well. It was powerful, and even moderately fun to drive for a vehicle of this type.

My complaints are minor. Here's some of them:

I could have used a slightly larger (30+) gallon fuel tank. Sure it's going to eat through the gas, but at least you can limit the number of times you stop with a larger tank.

I couldn't quite find a good spot to rest my left arm during long periods of driving. Maybe I need to telescope the wheel closer. My shoulder got sore.

The 'MODE' button on the steering wheel mounted audio should cycle through 'off' as one of the modes, rather than just "AM/FM/CD/Tape" as it would be nice to actually shut it off from here.

Locate the 115V AC power outlet in a more convenient place. It's a pain in the butt down there in the middle of the center console. It's a cool feature, though.

martin45

From my dealer.

The smell problem definitely falls within the lemon law.

1) Contact your local consumer affairs department. File a complaint.
2) Contact your local Attorney General. File a complaint.
3) Contact NHTSA. File a safety complaint. Public number 1.888.327.4236

burt2

I am the proud owner of a 2003 4runner, SR5, V8, 4wd. I chose the V8 over the V6 primarily because the V8 is a proven engine and has been in service for several years in various Toyota and Lexus vehicles and has been reported to be extremely reliable. The V6 is a new engine. I am confident it will prove to be reliable, nonetheless I chose the V8.

It seems that most of the issues with the sulphur smell have been with the V8. ( Since the V6 was a late release perhaps there just are not as many out there.)

My point and/or question: if the V8 has been around for awhile and this problem has not surfaced in other similar vehicles, wouldn't that argue for a computer setting or a different catalytic converter or different exhaust system.

Comments ?

vodgut

Certainly, if it is something other than what Toyota claims about the sulfur in the gas, then the emissions system would be a prime suspect. I remember seeing in the owners manual that the emissions systems are somewhat different between the V6 and the V8, at least in the diagrams they have.

My 4Runner smells like a beautiful spring meadow full of flowers and bunnies.

pat84

Bunnies taste like chicken.

vaughn4

And reek of sulfur...

vodgut

Not my bunnies! Them's good eatin'!

andrews928

"My point and/or question: if the V8 has been around for awhile and this problem has not surfaced in other similar vehicles, wouldn't that argue for a computer setting or a different catalytic converter or different exhaust system"

GX470 people complain about the smell.

"And for anyone who wants a third row seat, and is willing to pony up for a limited 4Runner: you can get the GX470 with the third seat, right? And it goes for a little more than a loaded limited V-8."

Since they are not really discounting the GX its about $12,000 more for a vehicle equipped like a 4Runner Limited.

tfuzz

A couple of comments on above messages concerning ’03 V8 LTD

The "mode" button on the steering wheel does turn the stereo off and on. To turn it off, just hold the button down for about a second and a half (if you just push the mode button it will cycle to the next mode—you have to hold it down to get it to turn off without changing the mode). This also works fine as a mute button. Tap the mode button it when the stereo is off and the system turns back on at the same point it was when turned off.

The headlights on my LTD turn off automatically after a certain period when left on after parking (you might have to take the key out and exit the vehicle--not sure). You can leave the light switch turned “on” all the time if you want.

I have no sulphur smell after 10,700 miles.

This vehicle is one of the best, if not THE best, I have ever owned. It rides and handles great--especially for a 4WD truck. It tows great. My wife and I both love it. So even though I have a list of dislikes I still think it is an outstanding vehicle.

DISLIKES/SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENTS
Gas mileage should be better
Cruise control loses its memory below about 25 mph (I HATE that—have to take my eyes off the road for too long to get it reset exactly where I want it—it should retain its memory even when stopped)
Glass seems to pit too easily
The in-the-way rear shelf needs to be deleted, or at least make it removable
No XM Satellite Radio option—at least give us a jack in the back to plug it in
This truck should have Michelin Cross Terrain tires
No windshield wiper de-icer
No low tire warning system—even my Sienna had one, and it worked
Needs volt and oil gauges
Need one of the 12 volt outlets to stay live when vehicle is turned off
More interesting colors would be nice
Fix the hitch problems
HID lights would be nice
Could use a larger rear storage space (subwoofer takes this space in JBL equipped vehicles)
Needs memory seats (OK, maybe I should buy the Lexus)
I would prefer DRLs to use headlights, not parking lights

LIKES
As stated above, ride and comfort are exceptional
Wonderful torque and acceleration
Drives very nice-XREAS suspension is great!
Very comfortable on long trips
Dual climate control works well (my wife likes it hotter than me)
Cup holders are usable and plentiful
Cruise control stalk, and most other controls, very well designed
Console, front cubby holes are nice
Personally, I like the shifter, except that it is too easy to accidentally shift out of overdrive
Rear air suspension works great for towing
I prefer NO 3rd seat
VSC really works--my 18 year old can't do donuts in it, even on snow (may even be a bit too intrusive, but I like it that way for my family)

mrwhipple

There are $750 rebates right now on all SR5 model 4Runners in both 2WD and 4WD that are NOT equipped with the "AP" (appearance package),

Guess they're not selling as well as the monochromatic ones.

Ooops.

virgiesmom

I noticed on carsdirect.com that they are saying there is a mfg-to-dealer incentive until 4/30 on all the 4Runners! Where can I find details on this? Thanks

vodgut

My V8 LTD came with Michelin Cross-Terrains.

pat84

How do like the CT's

vodgut

So far they've been very good. Quiet on the road, they were good when we had 3 feet of snow, no trouble getting around. I'll have to try them out a bit more this summer maybe doing some light to medium off-road stuff.

My one complaint, and I'm guessing this is probably the tires, is they induce a slight wobble in the vehicle on grooved pavement. It's a little disconcerting. I'm guessing the tread is catching the grooves somehow. It doesn't happen on smooth pavement.

kstitt

I test drove several 4runners with different tires. There was such a difference that I insisted on the C-T's on the LTD which I bought. The quality of ride, noise level, cornering stability and traction were noticeably better with the C-Ts. The Dunlap's were my least favorite and the Bridgestone Duelers were second to the Michelins. Tire Rack has useful reviews/surveys on these tires.

joatmon

I've had CTs on my 97 Runner for about 28k. They are great; a big improvement over Michelin LTX M/S.

delguy

"The in-the-way rear shelf needs to be deleted, or at least make it removable"

Is this true? I thought you could remove the shelf, but I have yet to see one in person. Dealer didn't have a limited. That would be a big minus as we plan on putting our pups back there.

thanks,

delguy

vodgut

It's pretty much attached to the vehicle by a flexible connecting piece that sits against the back of the rear seats when the shelf is in use, but lays flat when the shelf is not in use and folded down to the floor.

Personally, I don't find the shelf obtrusive. You can put it up when you want to use it, but it does fold down flat on the cargo area if you don't want to use it. About all it does is eat up maybe 1 inch of vertical cargo space at the bottom when it's in the down position. I don't see where it would really get in the way unless there's something that would just fit if it only had 1 inch more top-to-bottom space. In that case I'd think you'd probably have more problems getting it through the rear gate, though.

pat84

The salesman lowered my shelf the day I bought it, and it has never been back up. I took that net thingy off too. I now have 2 nets and a shelf taking up space.

vodgut

I have left the shelf pretty much down, too. Suppose it might come in handy some day.

As for the net, I've found it useful, but I only have it strung to the attachments on one side of the cargo area. It's wrapped around the box I keep all my road emergency gear (flashlight, jumper cables, etc.) in to keep it from sliding around the back of the vehicle.

pat84

I use my little net to hold a covered plastic box. I have a channel locks, torx bit, saddleman's tool, old pair of gloves. umbrellas, rain ponchos, a folding knife, roll of toilet paper, 2 big 6 V flashlights an old blanket and some towlettes. All you have to do is change a tire once in the rain and mud at night and you will carry all that stuff, too. The umbrellas, ponchos and flashlight are for whoever is helping me.

leodogs

It's sort of nice to write about other things for a change, even though there is still no odor (avoiding the "S" word) solution on the horizon).

Tires - My dealer was kind enough to actually switch the Bridgestones off my car and replace them with the CTs for me. IMHO a much better tire.I also put them on my '96 runner.
Shelf - Laid it flat, covered it with a homemade liner and blanket and 260lbs. of dogs. No longer a problem and something never to be used by me.
Net - Basically, did the same thing as vodgut and then put it to use across the back when I need to keep grocery bags from tipping over.

tfuzz

I don't use the net either. I still really dislike the shelf and wish I could take it out permanently. However, I bought a Husky liner made to go over it (when in the down position) and that works well for carrying my dogs back there (leodogs--I only carry 116 lbs of dogs--260 would be a lot--what are they?).

Instead of the silly shelf, I wish Toyota had furnished us with a snap-in snap-out dog barrier (like the roller cover snaps in)--now that would have been useful (of course, I suppose there may be some people who don't carry their dogs in the back!)

leodogs

They are Leonbergers - the small female weighs 100lbs. - the male makes up the rest. They're the ones that want the windows down all the time - something that the '03 doesn't handle very well...interior noise/pressure and especially because of the terrible sm - oops - almost wrote that word again.

pat84

Do your dogs ever get wet chasing bunnies ?
Wet dogs in the back of a 4 Runner would get my attention.

nhopper1

 Finally the "chickens have come home to roost...". In the Washington D.C. area, typical deals are $4,000 to $5,000 off MSRP and in the Southeastern region, the importer is ceasing to include such garbage as Toyoguard and a host of other overpriced "options" such as spoilers and oversized aftermarket wheels now that sales are slowing so much. As much as I admire Toyota products( I've bought four in the last three years ) I detest the way buyers and potential buyers face accepting extras and bloated packages that most people would otherwise not want because the importers, who dictate the equipment, have been able to get away with it up until now. Apparently, 4Runners are becoming hard to sell around here and therefore sales practices are changing. These are expensive purchases even when they aren't over-contented. Now, maybe, we can get vehicles equipped the way we want them -- no more, no less.

 Regards - Neil

delguy

It really irritates me how I have to pretty much buy a 4r w/ a 39k sticker because I want leather and the JBL stereo. Heck it's hard enough to get a v6 limited anyway. Oh well. At least I have time to wait.

nhopper1

I've seen some good leather installations that dealers have arranged through local upholstery shops that would allow you to buy an SR-5 with JBL. Figure on $1,200 to $1,500 cost.

  Regards - Neil

vaughn4

That's great news. Now if they can only work on the sulfur odor...

virgiesmom

I've now decided on the 4Runner LTD V8! Let me ask: Local dealer has only one LTD and it is a V6. They say they can find one that I want and will not cost me extra! I've thought that I would be able able to get a better deal in buying off lot. Opinion on what the dealer will have to allow in his negotiation to do this versus one in inventory? I may have to make a road trip to some distant dealers and buy. I'm located in Roanoke, VA. Any recommendations from Cliffy or the MacaBee or others that went thru this?

cliffy1

I have a hard time answering that question because I personally know the GM at the Roanoke store. Say "hi" to Chuck for me.

In general, you can get better pricing if you can buy one out of inventory. That is a guideline and not a rule. In smaller markets (like Roanoke), they know they can't possibly stock enough inventory to satisfy everybody's needs. They employ a fair number of local retired folks to do dealer exchanges. Its pretty common.

I would suggest working with them on a price. If you can get something you are comfortable with, buy it. If not, then plan your road trip.

cliffy1

Toyota is fully aware of a mistake they made. The gray cladding is an unmitigated disaster. They are giving us $500 in factory to dealer incentive money for every one we sell without the new appearance package. Beyond that, we are discounting those models very heavily. The same does not apply to the new ones coming in with the appearance package.

kb28

Hi guys; this is my first post on this board. I am a DII owner, but am making the change to a 4Runner 4WD V-8 Sport. To get one with the NAV system, and a few other bells and whistles, I will have to special order it which the dealership says will take 3 months, and one said 6 months. Where are they building these things and why are there no units on any lots throughout most of the country with the NAV system? (In fact, the dealer told me the NAV as a matter of course involves a special order). I was also told the NAV presently being used is one of the best, if not the best, in the country; it is DVD based and includes the details of every berg, not just the major cities. Is this true? Thanks.

virgiesmom

Thanks Cliffy for input. I'm willing to bend up to the $300 range to work with local dealer. However I don't want a lot of miles on the "new" due to a long trade distance. I'd rather put them on. Won't seem new if miles are up there. With weather being nice a road trip to No. VA or to the coast might not be a bad idea!

cliffy1

The Cherry blossoms are out this week!

rickwil61

Are you saying that Toyota is officially acknowledging that the cladding was a mistake? If that's so then why don't they offer to retrofit the appearance package at a price where all costs would be covered. I don't expect them to take a loss but you would at least think they would give us the option of paying for it. Or could you actually just take your 4Runner to a Toyota bodyshop and have them replace the cladding? I would assume the parts could be ordered by a body shop.

nhopper1

Appearance package or not, I know of at least three D.C. area dealers who are discounting $4,000 to $5,000 +/- on ALL 4Runners in stock. Don't be afraid to shop around. (The weekend Washington Post is a good source of ads to this effect.)

   Good luck -