Toyota 4Runner

sween77

When I bought my 4runner the dealer had added 1400 dollars to the msrp for undercoat and stain protector and a pin stripe. After negotiating the price the dealer came off the new msrp by almost 4000 dollars. This was 2 months ago. So this idea of dealers coming off the msrp and this being a new thing is false.
What I have discovered is that most dealers have this on site add ons(undercoat etc.) Also most dealers will come signifigantly off of the msrp on all models, even new ones. Especialy when the economy sucks! I thnk a person can easily get a dealer to 2% plus his hold back which is another 3%. Which means the dealer makes 5% which is fair. By the way they dont like to talk about the hold back.
Also if you think your buying at invoice you need to ask yourself these questions. 1.Are you paying any on site add ons? 2.Do you know what the invoice is? 3. Have you subtracted the 3% hold back plus other incentives? Food for thought

masuza

I finally did a test drive of a SR5 V8 with the Appearance package. The monochromatic look is a major improvement over the Avalanche look of the dull gray cladding. Despite my previous apprehensions over tight headroom I decided to give the 4Runner another look. With the moonroof the truck has a more open feeling to it. My wife and I loved how it drove. Very tight feel to the road, yet very comfortable. I have a couple of questions that I hope are not too redundant to this page.

1. We are looking to tow a pop-up camping trailer or Trail-lite trailer. I know 5000 lbs is the listed towing capacity. Any feedback on towing issues any of you may have had?

2. Is leather only available on the Limited? The salesman could only tell me that he has not seen any SR5's or Sport Editions with it, but did not know for sure.

Thanks,
M

joanvb

This is my first post, but I've been reading and enjoying this discussion for several months. I appreciate all the information that has been shared.

Two reasons for this post:

1. I don't know anything about holdbacks and would love more explanation of those and the percentages mentioned in the recent post.
  
2. I am also interested (as another recent post is) in any information about pulling a travel trailer (21' Trail Lite, about 4,000 pounds). It appears there are some concerns about the hitch. Does anyone know if it will accommodate a load-distribution hitch?

Some information about my situation in southern Cal...
I ordered an '03 4x4 Limited V8, w/Navi in January, because I couldn't find one configured exactly as I want (main limiting factor appears to be the rear air susp.). I was told the wait will be 3 to 6 months. My accessories are: GY, NF, NV, RF, SR, C7, and the dealer said the price would be $800 over invoice and said it would be $37,779. plus tax and license.

The Kelly Blue Book site has the total invoice for that configuration at $37,606., so I'm not sure where the dealer is coming up with this price (which seems to be better than $800 over invoice). I am aware of dealer add-ons, and I'm not getting those. (At least, I don't think I am!)

Thank you.

sstatic

Can try and help you with question #1.

Try this link...

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

You can find out a lot of info using the "tips and advice" tab above.

Hope this helps!

)
jg

martin45

Toyota can and probably will discount this mistake of an SUV all it wants. Until Toyota acknowledges they are the cause of the smell problem and accepts responsibility, the price will continue to drop.

Anyone who buys this thing deserves what they get.

joanvb

Thanks for the very helpful information regarding holdbacks!

sween77

It seems to me that almost all makes and models are being discounted. Ford Explorer, Chevy Trailblazer, Nissan Pathfinder, etc.
A person can walk into any GM,Ford,Nissan,Dodge,Toyota etc. dealership and get a real good deal on any vehicle they want. Why? Because the economy SUCKS! Its not the 4runner its the economy.

vodgut

During the search for my 4Runner, I asked about doing dealer trades to get the vehicle I wanted. The first dealer I was dealing with could do an in-town trade for about $50 or so, but would require $500 more to bring one in from out of state. Unfortunately, this dealer did not have a vehicle to trade for one I wanted to get one within my desired time frame.

I wanted one that was a Pacific Blue V8 LTD, which apparently there weren't any in Colorado. I ended up going through a website with a local dealer affiliate (probably a higher volume dealer than the first I was dealing with, but geographically much less convenient for me). What ended up happening was that they traded vehicles from the allocation at the port. Thus instead of being shipped to Arizona, the vehicle was sent here and whatever equivalent vehicle was going to be sent here was sent to Arizona instead. It did not cost me anything extra - as I imagine all it took was a phone call between the dealers and a change in some paperwork at the docks to send the appropriate vehicle to the appropriate locale.

The only drawback is it may be a few extra weeks between when the allocations come out and when the vehicle gets delivered, versus taking one off the lot. It was actually less than two weeks between when I placed the order and the vehicle was at the dealership.

delguy

I also want the leather and have found that I must get the limited then (unless I want aftermarket that is).

So now I'm trying to get a good price on a limited v6, 4x4. Carsdirect.com says there's a factory to dealer incentive, but not how much. Also, I haven't seen any other mention of one including here and my $12 Consumer Reports report which consequently was a waste since I already knew all the numbers from here. Any help out there?

delguy

I just talked to a very friendly lady at carsdirect.com and she confirmed that there is an incentive of $400 running right now.

Please everyone, don't flood them w/ calls asking the same questions. Also, I couldn't tell if this was the whole number or just the portion they were passing on. I seem to recall the Highlander shifting by $400 in price at the beginning of the month.

Hope this helps.

tmh3

I parked my '03 Limited V8 (1,722 miles) at the office for 2-days last week while out of town. I picked it up Saturday and on the drive home, I began to notice sulfur smells inside the cabin. As all windows were up and I was in stop-and-go traffic, I assumed my ventilation system was picking up exhaust fumes from nearby traffic. As traffic cleared and the odor became more intense, I became convinced that one of my practical joke playing co-workers must have found some ripe road kill and secured it to the underside of my vehicle. On the way to work this am, with windows up and air conditioner on, the same intense odors began coming from the vents. A smell such as this from the exhaust is one thing. Coming from your air conditioning vents is something else entirely. I have access to a multiple gas detection meter from our service department. I'm going to borrow this to see if it can detect anything hazardous accompanying the odors coming from the vents.

vodgut

Where do you live where you're getting this smell? We're trying to see if there's a correlation between location and presence/absence of the stink.

tmh3

I live in the Southeast(Middle TN). Just went to lunch and there was no smell whatsoever. Outside temperature approximately 78; inside set at 68. I need to monitor this for a few days. It is possible that both times previously that the odor has originated from the AC vents, the outside temperature has been close to or below the temperature set for inside the cabin.

morry

Hi Everyone,
I am still having problems getting the 4Runner that I want. My "ordered" car came in last Friday. When I went to see it on Saturday, I noticed that it did not have the (RF) Rear Suspension. Gee was I ticked off. The dealer called me today and told me that Toyota is no longer offering this option. The assumption is that it may be causing some problems. Does anyone out there know if this is true or am I just getting some excuse to sell me the vehicle that came in by mistake?

Thanks,
Morry

vodgut

Interesting. I've only had the A/C on a couple times so far here, hasn't really been warm enough yet to warrant using it more.

Did you note whether or not you had the recirc turned on for the system? Seems to me you might smell it more if it's set to bring outside air into the vehicle.

nismoedge

I smelled the sulfur odor and realized it was the same smell I noticed before on previous Nissans, Hondas, Toyotas, BMW, etc... usually from hard driving, nothin new so I don't see how it can be so bad, I never thought twice about it always wondered why the brakes where burning.

When I smelled it on my other car a 2003 ES300 after some hard and fast driving I stood behind the car and after a few seconds the smell vanished, no big deal really I have smelled the same thing on cars as old as 1990 vehicles all the way up to 2004, several maximas I owned had sweet odors but it was still egg stink, always figured it was exhaust not to breath it in.

Also for those of you who are complaining about the stink why not look at your production number, maybe certain trucks made between a certain period have the problem and they changed something and the problem went away, I know from the Nissans I have owned that cars that where built 3 months apart could have slightly different parts on them for the same thing.

For the guy who is gonna special order a Sport with NAV, the Nav is not DVD based it works off a Satellite, the system rocks I have used it alot and you will never get lost with it, sytem reroutes in a second if you miss the exit, very well worth the money.

Martin I came into this late and never really read all your post but am interested in knowing what you spent on your V8 SR5 and what did you get on a trade in for the Acura.

I don't see the 4Runner loosing value cause of a exhaust smell, maybe it is just the Brand New Vehicle increased pricing is wearing off or that more New Vehicles are coming to the market and their is more to choose from, hell if I had to do it again I would get an FX45.

intmed99

It uses satellites to pinpoin your locations. However, the DVD provides the mapping and directions.

kerso

Hi Folks,
I purchased a Kenwood MP3/Sirius ready stereo and can't find anyone capable to install it. They all say there is no installation kit available for the 03 4Runner and I have to wait until one is produced. Is this true? I know I've read about others on this board that have replaced their factory stereo. What kit did the installer use and did they do a professional job? Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

Kellie

scojo49

Anthony:

The V8 4Runner has the same engine as the Tundra, which has a 7200 lb towing capacity. The new 5 speed automatic trannie matched to the V8 is totally AWESOME. Seemless shifting. So much improved over my old '98.

As for the leather, you can get leather in any trim level.

I recommend the V8 SR5. You can have an SR5 appointed nearly to the Limited trim level and still pay less. Unless of course, you just have to have the "Limited" badging on the side.

Scojo

whitney8

Unless things have changed, the leather seats are only available on the LTD. This was a big deal for me, as I wanted power, heated leather seats, but did not want to pay the additional $6K for the LTD. So instead, I got the V8 Sport and had leather installed after delivery. Cost: around $1000 (not heated). Very happy with the rig.

john_dode

Long time reader, first time poster.

Leather, while not available on the SR5 and Sport in some regions, is available as a factory option in the Southeast/Gulf States. So, if you're looking to get leather on an SR5 or Sport, consider looking at dealers down there. They are listed at $1,099 under the regional options at CarsDirect.com

JD

sstatic

...were the hood scoops functional on pre 2003 models? Also...took a V8 Sport for a test drive the other day. Do you guys notice a bit of hesitation/ jerk when "launching" at times? I only felt it once, but it disturbed me. Felt like the whole chassis hesitated due to the engine.

Just an FYI...LEATHER is available, according to the Toyota website under 78748 zip code (Austin, Tx.) for ALL trim levels. It states it as a $1200 option exactly.

joanvb...you're welcome! ;o)

)

jg

pat84

I've got about 4500 miles on my V-8 Sport. Never had the hesitation you describe. I have looked under the hood and noticed that the scoop has 4 bolts holding a block on the scoop. The scoop could be made functional. I think that I really don't need sand, snow, rain, road crud and
bugs in my engine compartment. If I was going to drag race it, it might be different.

sween77

My 4runner hesitated as you described during the first 300 or 400 miles. It probably did this 7 or 8 times and usually would do it if I had decelerated to a stop off of a hill(coming down) and then accelerated and turning right or left at the same time. It felt like a lag. It hasnt done this in the past 1200 miles or so. But I cant explain it.

intmed99

vaughn4

Folks, we are not talking about a mild sulfur smell. Mine made a potent (almost made your eyes tear) type of sulfur smell that would stay with the truck (on the inside) for several minutes. Yes, a light sulfur odor under hard acceleration is pretty normal, but this truck's smell was overpowering, it was not normal. We could not stand it any more after 4300 miles and got rid of the truck. Yes, we used all brands and grades of fuel and it didn't make a difference. Do yourself a favor and do not purchase a V8 Runner. The V6 do not appear to have this problem.

714cut

Hesitation is a function of the automatic transmission. When putting it in to drive from park or reverse the transmission goes into a higher gear than 1st then after a slight hesitation goes into 1st. This is to avoid the "lurching ahead" that is so common. It's a great feature and described in the owners' manual.

4runner_03

Just got a new 03' Limited w/nav and X-reas. I wanted to know does anyone know where I can get a brush guard for it?

martin45

It was Vaughn who got rid of his stink machine. Although I too will be getting rid of mine. Vaughn is absolutely correct in saying the smell is overpowering. It is not normal in any way. You must first experience it from the 2003 4Runner before you can make any comparisons. The smell is unbearable. The vehicle is overrated and junk.

tomcat83

Martin45's 4Runner is junk! (as everyone who reads this board is reminded of almost daily!) My 2003 V8 4Runner is not junk. Don't deprive yourself of a test drive based on the comments of a few who are dissatisfied. It is a GREAT SUV!

714cut

Martin45- you've made your point many times about your problem. It doesn't mean the vehicle is overrated and junk. There are many satisfied owners out there and on this forum. Surely even you can appreciate some of the many positives about this vehicle. You would probably have a lot more credibility if you didn't rely on hyperbole as your way of communicating.

vodgut

Yep, Martin45's 4Runner is junk. Vaughn's is junk. Mine is not in the slighest. I don't blame those who have the stink problem for being mad about it - I would be, too.

There are going to be some bad apples in every bunch of vehicles, for whatever reasons. Anyone know of any model of vehicle that doesn't have any? That doesn't, however, mean that the manufacturer shouldn't stand behind the vehicle.

Again, I'm slightly distrubed that Toyota just blames this on bad gas. If other cars don't experience it using the same gas, why does the 4Runner? I realize, as stated before, this problem isn't just with the 4Runner - that other vehicles have had similar problems, too.

My suspicion is that it's an emissions system problem on some vehicles, that perhaps when combined with certain types of gas - which may only be present in certain locales, that causes the problem. Seems like this warrants more investigation on the part of Toyota. Have they tried running multiple 4Runners on the same gas that has given people problems, seeing if some stink and some don't? Then perhaps comparing it between V6 and V8, or to another model of vehicle entirely? I'd like to know the testing methodology they used to arrive at the 'bad gas' conclusion.

martin45

I do appreciate some of the vehicle. There were several reasons that encouraged me to get one. But if I were aware of the smell, I would never have selected the 2003 4Runner. Why take that risk?

People are losing money getting rid of the 2003 4Runners because of the smell being so severe. The vehicle is what it is.

Peace

delguy

I still plan on getting a 4Runner. Of course, I've been planning on the v6 all along so perhaps this is moot.

I do agree w/ Vodgut in that Toyota should be more proactive about the whole mess.

sstatic

Pat, Sween, intmed, cut...Thanks for the info guys! )

I guess I'll have to take one out for a full day test drive to see if it'll be a nuisance with the hesitation.

Thanks again!

jg

cliffy1

Its hard to diagnose things by reading comments. What you describe as hesitation may not be what I am imagining. I will tell you that these transmissions "learn" how you drive. Over time, if you are a lead foot, they will get used to how you drive and respond quicker. I'm not kidding.

Next, you may be describing a characteristic of the fly by wire throttle. When you mash the gas pedal, there is a delay before the throttle is opened all the way. It is an emissions issue. I notice it less on the 2003 Runners than I did on my 2000 Tundra V8 but it is still there.

intmed99

I am starting to really dislike "drive-by-wire"! I testdrove the Lexus SC430 and i felt the delay when i push hard on the pedal...i hated it, especially in a sports car! Your body and mind anticipate acceleration, but the car does not move. Very annoying for first-time drivers...i guess you get used to it after a while.

That is why, i am really waiting for technology to fix this delay in response (yet maintain low emissions) before buying a sports car. I love my '02 4Runner because it does not have this technology...very quick response (no delay) when i accelerate from stop. Of course, my 4runner is slow as a turtle, but at least it is "responsive".

rentschl

I don't think it was ever functional on any versions of the 4Runner. However...

I test drove a friends 3.4L 4Runner that had the TRD supercharger. He did NOT have the hood scoop and when you looked under the hood you saw that the insulation inside the hood had been rubbed apart by the top of the supercharger. The story was that if you had the hood scoop you would have enough clearence that the insulation would NOT get rubbed away.

BTW I was not impressed with the power of the supercharged 3.4L V6, especially considering that TRD was claiming 275 HP I believe.

I haven't seen or heard from anyone with the supercharger for the '03 4Runner (or on any of the Toyotas with the 4.7L V8) yet so I don't have any info.

For now I'm happy with my '03 V8 the way it is and ~$4k is alot to spend after what I already spent.

-Eric

mrwhipple

The ML's also have the hesitation due to the drive-by-wire system. It's becoming more common in newer vehicles with this system.

jaredmsd

4runner_03,

Do a search in this board for 'brush guard' or just 'guard' and you will find that it has been discussed at least a couple of times to my memory, maybe 3 times even. There were a couple of brands/websites suggested. If the search doesn't work, try some different words, but I'm sure it has been discussed.

-Jared

andrews928

Do either one of you guys work for a company that make a product??

I have a computer company and under your criteria Intel makes junky CPU's and motherboards, Seagate,Western Digital make junky hard drives and the list could go on and on including IBM and Dell making junky computers because a few people have problems. It sounds ridiculous.

Anyone know how many "sulfur smell complaints" have been registered with the NHTSA???

barbarian71

I have 3500 miles now on my V8 LTD. I had the smell one time for about 5 seconds. I had the windows up and the air on. I live in Minnesota FYI, and try to only use name brand gas, and I have been mostly using premium. I love my 4runner and I think it is of the highest build and engineering quality. I must say though that if I had that odor every day for longer intervals I would be concerned...I can understand why someone might not want to deal with it, but this car is certainly not junk. It would really be a shame if toyota refuses to find some responsiblilty for this issue. If I had the problem more seriously and Toyota was thumbing their nose at me it would tick me off to the point of not wanting to keep the vehicle I suppose...but so far so good for my car.

powder73

quick question i just bought a 03 4runnersr5 v8 sport edition and was under the impression, both by the vendor and the flyer, that they where a 6 disc changer coming with the premium jbl. To my surprise i only have a single changer. I've talk to them and after 2 weeks they are still waiting for an answer from toyota. First they told me it was a print mistake but now they are not sure!!!

so basically all i wanna know is wether or not the 6 disc changer should have come with my sport package.....

vodgut

I've noticed one type of hesitation and one possible type.

One of the posts may have mentioned before it takes the tranny a little time to actually get in gear when shifting from, say, P to R, P to D, or R to D. It doen't actually seem to get in gear for a second or two until after the gate is selected. Not really a problem in my book.

As for the throttle, nothing glaring has stood out with hesitation, but when I think about it compared to the throttle response on my 1998 A4, it does seem a bit slower. Of course, my A4 is a stick. I'll have to see if I notice any engine response hesitation now that I'm actually looking for it.

On a different note, I also remember many posts back that Denver was nominated for the SUV capitol of the world. Perhaps that's right, I took an informal qualitative poll of SUV's in the Chicago area when I was out there a couple weeks ago. They may have fewer by percentage, but what they lack in numbers they make up in size. All sorts of Navigators and Excursions. Of course, this was driving through the western suburbs to the North Shore...

Also, parked my 4Runner next to an Excursion the other day. It looked small. But compared to the Excuse. . .er, Excursion, that's a good thing.

sween77

1.Are the "Drive by wire" and "fly by wire throttle" the same thing?
2.Can I find info about these in my owners manual?

Its fun to be eductaed and this is why I like this board. Thanks to all those who contine to answer tough questins and help all of us better understnd our vehicle.

pat84

I have the 6 disk in - dash CD player in my V-8 Sport with JBL sound system. It looks like a single player. You just keep hitting the "load" button and feed the disks in one at a time. There is a little time delay between disk loads. I am trying to figure out where, or how it stores the disks. It plays the disk, loaded last, first; then in sequence with first loaded and then consecutive loads. It works really well.

vodgut

I'd been wondering how/where it stores the disc's, too. My current theory is that it's built like Dr. Who's Tardis, and is actually bigger on the inside than outside, through some sort of cross-dimensional gateway wizardry.

714cut

It is confusing in the brochures but the Canadian sport models do not come with 6 disc changer. They do come with 10 speaker JBL but no changer.

pat84

And here I was thinking the 6 CD storage was in a Klein bottle. not Dr.Who's phone booth.

http://www.kleinbottle.com/

intmed99

Well, if you check out NAKAMICHI.COM website, you can see the different 6-disc in-dash cd changers. Toyota based their changer's design on Nakamichi.