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Comments
I have been following the board since Jan and have found it to be very interesting. But I have to say that the sulfur smell topic is turning into a cat fight ! ENOUGH ALREADY! Thankfully I have not noticed any such smell with my V6 ! I ride with the moonnroof and rear window down as often as possible. I've also used the A/C a number of times...again I've noticed nothing. I have to admit I'd be pretty upset if I did! I did drive a V8 for a day and didn't notice the smell in it either...but I don't remember driving with the windows down...this was before the issue came up on the board...but I think if the smell is THAT bad I would have noticed !
I really didn't even consider buying the V8. I never pulled anything with the 93 and I live in Louisiana so I never have to worry about REAL snow ! I'm assuming that's the reason the are so many V8 owners vs V6 ?
The only complaint I originally had was the UGLY cladding...it's the reason I bought the LTD...if I had known Toyota would have offered the appearance pkg for the SR5 , I would have waited and not spend the extra money on the LTD .
I didn't know there were options only available in certain areas. I searched the internet (locally) for the color I wanted and thought the options that were avail was the same for ALL LTDs ...regardless of WHERE they were located. The only option I don't have is the NAV or the DVD (which I think had to be special ordered).
No squeaky seats ! No blurry side mirrors ! Rear wiper works fine! No sulfer smell ! GUESS I GOT THE ONLY PERFECT 03 ! LUCKY ME HUH !
Have a nice day.
I haven't jumped in yet-my '97 4Runner has 194,000 and looks and runs great-it's becoming a part of the family.
I also just spoke to our service director about the issue. He thought I was talking about the Corolla. It seems that is the only car he knows about with a sulphur smell. It does it in cold temperatures. He had not heard about any of the V8s with this. He even logged on to our communication system with Toyota to look for the TSB. Under the "Hot topics" section, there was no TSB listed. I'm sure there is one but Toyota doesn't consider it to be a "hot topic."
Finally, last night I was in a hurry to get home. I was driving much more aggressively than normal. I was hard into the throttle, especially during passing. When I got home, my 2003 Tundra did have a sulphur smell. It wasn't too horrible, but I did notice it. I think there is a direct connection between driving habits, as well as types of fuel.
I spoke to the service manager this morning regarding the status of my vehicle. Here is a quick summary of what I was told:
1) Toyota issued an official bulletin yesterday, 03/25/03, regarding the subject of the sulfur smell entering the cabin.
2) Toyota engineers conducted an "extensive" study as numerous complaints have been received by Toyota.
3) The conclusion of the study was there have been high amounts sulfur added to the gasoline recently, and it is most predominant in the NY, NJ, and CT area.
4) Toyota is not responsible for the refinement of gasoline.
5) Try different gas stations.
6) Take the truck on a long trip to break it in.
7) There is nothing that can be done by Toyota.
8) Keep the windows closed until the problem with the gasosline is corrected.
Cliffy, have you heard anything about this "official bulletin" issued by Toyota?
Martin
Just a thought on the gas smell issue (which could affect my decision):
When I grew up we had one of the old station wagons (Vista Cruiser with the top windows and wood grain) and I suffered unmercifully in the back "3rd row seats" (facing backward) during the summer. Despite my complaints, my Dad would never lower the back window because it was well recognized that the exhaust fumes would enter the car when driving. I imagine this holds true today for 4Runners as well - probably not the fault of Toyota.
But I wonder if the rear air deflector alters this phenomenon. I wonder if those who have the worst experience don't have the rear deflector, and those that haven't noticed it even with the back window down have the deflector. Any comments?
This whole thing reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was driving a horse drawn cart in Grand Central Park. He fed his horse "Rusty" dog food in a feed bag. The horse then had such a case of gas that the people in the cart were having a rough go of it due to Rusty's flatulence.
tidester, host
Yes, our new 4Runners are low emission vehicles, but there's still CO coming out of the exhaust - just less of it than in the past. Here's a quote from a medical journal on what you're doing to yourself, friends and family when you drive with the rear window down: (just some food for thought)
"CO is a lethal poison that is produced when fuels such as gasoline are burned. It is one of many chemicals found in engine exhaust and can rapidly accumulate even in areas that might appear to be well ventilated. Because CO is colorless, tasteless, odorless, and nonirritating, it can overcome the exposed person without warning. It produces weakness and confusion, depriving the person of the ability to seek safety.
CO poisons primarily by tightly binding to hemoglobin in the blood (forming carboxyhemoglobin), replacing oxygen, and reducing the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood. CO may also poison by binding to tissues and cells of the human body and interfering with their normal function. Persons with pre-existing heart disease are at increased risk. Fetuses of pregnant women are also at increased risk-especially when mothers are exposed to high CO levels. Recognizing early warning signs of CO poisoning is sometimes difficult because early symptoms of CO exposure (headache, dizziness, and nausea) are nonspecific and may be mistaken for symptoms of other illnesses such as colds, flu, or food poisoning. Confusion and weakness can inhibit a person's ability to escape the hazardous environment."
The rear window roll-down feature is intended for loading stuff in the back without opening the hatch. Nothing more.
V-6's
Any 4runner in California.
So if you have a 4runner that falls into either of the categories, and you DON'T smell the sulfur smell, than please DON'T post a comment saying so. It's been going on for a while, and it gets really confusing when some people say they have it, and others not, when the others that do not have it fall into those categories listed above.
If you do fall into these categories and you DO smell it constantly, please post because people have asked many times.
I guess I'm glad I'm getting a V-6 and I live in Cali. Good luck to all that have this problem.
-Jared
What part of the country are you in? Is this, indeed, a regional problem due to high sulfer content in NY, NJ, CT? cliffy is in the virginia area (I believe) which MAY indicate why he hasn't seen the same problems as you have.
Unfortunately I will not be able to post that Official Bulletin from Toyota tonight, as I am not able to pick up my car tonight.
I will however post it tomorrow, as I will leave work a bit earlier. I am just as curious as the rest of you to read this Official Bulletin.
As it turns out, I am glad I am not picking up my 4Runner today. I can go out tonight and not be aggravated by that &#!@$?# smell!
Cheers!
Has anyone noticed a difference between fuel grades?
I know it's kind of pricey right now to try a couple of tanks of premium, but might be worth a try.
"Dated 2/24/03 EG003-03
Don't have time to type the whole thing, but basically states if you have the odor, check for codes.
States that the problem could go away by trying a different fuel source."
I'm not able to link to the TSB, but it is out there.
Other isssues
2. I had a squeeky seat and with wd40 in the hinge it no longer squeeks.
3. I do have the sulphur smell but like CLIFFY says only when I floor it. I would prefer that this smell didnt occur at all..
4. The toyota factory stereo leaves much to be desired.
5.I live on a curvy stretch of highway and man does this vehicle handle well for an SUV. I think the handling is the most impressive feature.
6. Some have complained about the engineering of the instrumentation. I find these complaints rediculus. I think the car was very well engineered. The A/C knobs and other controls make perfect sense to me.
7.The car overall is solid and fast. However It is not without flaw.
8.Gas mileage for me is around 17 mpg(overall). Which is in line with Toyota estimates.
These are only my thoughts after 5 weeks with my 4runner. Please do not forget to help me with issue number one if you have info. Of all the issues this is the one most troubling because I am not sure if it normal or perhaps something to be troubled over. Thanks
It will be interesting if we can correlate it to something (gas is some geagraphic region or something).
-Eric
It is possible that when designing its new vehicles for the '03 model year, Toyota anticipated the widespread availability of low-sulfur fuel that will be available in Japan and Europe very soon...however, in the States, the only place the gas companies have already switched over is California because CARB (the air board) mandated it early and because they were already retooling to eliminate MTBE form their formulations.
This has been a double-edged sword - no sulfur smell, that is true, but also gas prices that are averaging $0.30 per gallon MORE than the rest of the nation.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But, if it ever gets into the ground water, it's a very serious pollutant. The Fed's AND the oil industry really screwed up on this one. There was an expose on 60 Minutes a few years back.
martin45 - NY (V8)
leodogs - CT (V8)
reddfish - south FL (V8?)
vaughn4 - FL (V8)
lynleyt - MD/DC area (V8?)
who am I missing?
From the miniscule sampling represented on this board, it APPEARS as though the stink problem is centered around the NE and the Florida areas (regional problem?). I also seem to recall seeing a post from someone in CO who complained about the smell also, but only under hard acceleration. I have also yet to see a single V6 with this problem (or, if I have, I can't recall it).
I enjoyed driving my other car these past couple of days. No stink.
I almost wouldn't mind leaving it at the dealer the rest of the week.
I stopped by a Toyota dealer today—and to my surprise—I see Toyota is now offering the base SR5 with a monochromatic color option, so that it will look like the Limited! Now SR5 owners aren't stuck with that ugly gray cladding; they now have a choice. Good move Toyota!
IIRC, it's a $370 "appearance package." It's not, however, offered on the Sport model, according to the salesman I spoke to.
Toyota must have gotten a lot of early flak about the new SR5's looks, and reacted very quickly.
Now if they could get rid of that fake hood scoop on the Sport (or make it functional!), and offer heated seats with cloth, and not just with leather, I'd be very happy.
Bob
I'll trade you even, but only if you promise to quit moaning about your truck 2-3 times a day.
We get that you are not happy with your truck.
We get that you are not happy with the explanations/service/response you have received.
We get that you feel that Toyota has a major design foulup on their hands (despite the fact that the problem APPEARS to be limited to specific regions of the country and that virtually EVERY manufacturer has cars which also exhibit these same problems with high sulfer content fuels).
But what I don't get is why you feel the need to come onto this board and REPEATEDLY piss and moan about your problems. Yes, your truck may certainly have a problem with it's emissions equipment which makes it more susceptible to high-sulfer content fuel than others. And yes, your local dealership may have simply given you the 'bad gas' line to keep from having to take a hard diagnostic look at it. But personally, if you come across in public the same way I perceive you coming across on this board, I would have been tempted to blow you off myself.
Title: Sulfur odor from exhaust
Problem not limited to specific regions.
RORR, I have a goal that you obviously don't understand.
I agree with the posts that point out how useful this board can be. If you are on this board you are paying attention to your vehicle. Together we will probably be the first to notice issues. If we work together we can even contribute to a resolution.
As Audi found out, blaming the customer, even if the customer is wrong, doesn't help. As a customer, not appreciating the difficulty of resolving some of these issue, doesn't help either.
Introduction:
Some owners of Toyota vehicles may experience a sulfur like or rotten egg odor from the exhaust system. Sulfur is a natural component of crude oil from which gasoline is refined and the amount of sulfur can be decreases through the refining process. The amount of sulfur in fuel in CA is regulated, however gasoline sold in other states can have substantially higher sulfur content. Sulfur content also varies considerably between gasoline brands and locations.
Applicable vehicles:
All models
Repair procedure:
A sulfur odor emitted from the vehicle tailpipe does not necessarily indicate that there is an issue with the engine’s condition, but is most likely directly related to the fuel. If the vehicle is exhibiting an excessive sulfur odor, the following checks should be performed:
If the MIL light is ON, check for DTCs and repair as necessary
If no trouble is found after performing the above check, recommend the customer try a different source of fuel.
Replacement of oxygen sensors, air/fuel ratio sensors or catalytic converters will not reduce the odor and therefore will not be considered warrantable.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - - - -------------------------------------------
I spoke to the GM, and had a very productive conversation. He left my repair order open, and is investigating alternatives that we discussed. He truly recognized the seriousness of the problem.
Draw your own conclusion.
Martin
Pro
Power, lots of it. the torque is awesome. Just revving the engine gets the heart pumping.
Build quality of course. Sturdy.
Paint, much better than my Acura. My Pilot friend said the same about his Honda. It just feels thicker. No rock chips yet. Knock on wood.
Rear sliding glass. Love the feature. There is a con to follow that people have touched on.
Controls. I think the a/c controls and info center are kind of nifty. Not cookie cutter for sure.
Cup holders are adjustable and hold lots of change too.
Seats are comfortable, especially for that commute.
Passing power is excellent, when your not stuck in traffic.
Cargo space is nice. Especially when you shop at IKEA and are putting lots of furniture together. No delivery needed.
3rd row? No way! I would feels sorry for the kids who had to sit back there!
Cons
Stereo. It's kind of weak in my opinion. I like it loud and sometimes it gets really distorted. But that can easily be changed.
The steering wheel controls are better than the Acura's though.
Still undecided about the tripod dash. I know I would have liked any other color besides amber.
Rear sliding glass. Down, but no up feature from the remote. PITA.
Front windshield has a chip, don't know if it's from "soft" glass or gravel trucks.
Side mirrors are foggy on certain days, but no biggie.
GAS usage. About 350-380 miles per tank on 89. Ran it to 0 on the miles left gauge a couple of times.
All in all, some minor yips but no real hollers of agony about this truck. It has been a real pleasure to own and hopefully the next 90K will be as joyful.
Does anyone think that the SR5 color coding makes the 4-runner look too much like the Highlander?
Really? In my perception, you were having a problem with your truck and were not happy with the resolution you were getting from your dealer. Therefore, you decided to trash the truck publicly in this forum as much as you could. Perhaps you intended to create a backlash against Toyota, resulting in them finally taking you seriously. If this was NOT your goal, please educate me.
From reading the TSB you've posted, it seems to me that the problem is EXACTLY as has been related to you several times over: high sulfer content in some fuels (which appear to vary by region and/or brand) leading to the rotten egg odor. All models (and dare we say, all brands?) are effected. If no trouble is found after performing a diagnostic check, recommend to customer they try another brand of fuel.
Now, since the official TSB says essentially same thing that was related to you several times over, I am very curious about the "productive conversation" you had with the GM and the alternatives he is investigating.
Telling you what my conclusion is will simply get this post deleted.