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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
area. Whose offering the best deals on the ES300? Looking at all options except Nav and Mark Levinson. Is $1000 over invoice out of the question. Compared to the Acura TL and the I35, the ES300 is way overpriced in my opinion.
1. Do not consider the I35 since it will be discontinued. Infiniti has stated they will only make RWD and AWD cars/trucks. Further, in their latest ads showing the full-line the I35 is not even shown. (I understand it's possible this fact may not bother you.). Also, the I35 will have a lower resale value.
2. The TL is a fine car. But the ES costs more for a reason. It's a brand new design (TL is near the end of its cycle), the interior is far richer and nicer in looks and quality, the ES has more safety features, the ES has a nicer ride, etc. Again, I do like the TL. But you are getting a nicer car in the ES (although less sporty) and that is what you are paying for.
Check out the details (if that matters to you) and you'll see the ES is superior to the TL. Things like the ES has real wood (fake in TL), separate rear-seat headrests (integrated in TL), dual-zone climate control (not in TL), curtain airbags (not in TL), key with integrated remote (TL uses cumbersome separate key chain), compass (TL has none), power rear shade (not on TL), trip computer (not on TL), etc.
If you decide to spend less, though, you can't go wrong with the TL.
I am just curious. It seems that you had a real good deal on the ES, and I think the market price of the 02 ES is coming down. Enjoy your new ES.
To test this out, just vist www.lexus.com and select the "Build a Lexus" option. By entering different zip codes, you can get a good feel for the sticker price and standard option packages sold in different areas.
For example, I bought my 2002 ES300 in LA, where two trim options are offered. Only the loaded option has heated seats, and neither options in LA include all-season tires.
By contrast the 48224 (Michigan) offers four options, all of which have heated seats and all-weather tires.
1. Premium package
2. Above + HID + Wood
3. Above + ML + NAV + Rear Sunshade + VSC/TRAC
4. Above + AVS
I'm surprised heated seats are now in a standard package for cars sold in southern California.
I saw some ES' on the lot with all-season tires, but I got the Toyo Proxes J33 summer tires. I've been told you can tell them you want all-season tires instead without any extra charge.
I am surprised that the dealer told you it was not covered under warranty. I checked my 02 warranty manual, unfortunately it does not contain too much useful information.
But if you go to www.lexus.com, and search for platinum warranty which I believe it is the same as the bumper-to-bumper coverage as the original warranty, see if you can find the roter is covered or not. The dealer may use a different name as in the warranty though.
Or you can call Lexus customer service to find out the coverage.
Or bring your ES to another Lexus dealer, sometimes the willingness to cover under warranty for each dealer varies. It is just like filing an insurance claim, some insurance company will approve the claim, but some won't, IMHO.
I am wondering how many miles you have had for your ES since you have your car for only two months.
I was disappointed about the transmission just like you when I received the car in early Feb. But I told myself that the transmission should become smoother after driving more miles. So I tried to ignore what was happening during gear shifting and keep driving it. Sometime I tried to accelerate faster, and sometimes I tried to accelerate normally.
What I can tell you about the transmission is that it is much smoother now, and it will do whatever you want it to do, cannot do like a racing car though.
By the way, I have over 5700 miles for my ES.
Even the definition of "premium package" varies by location. Check out which package/area you want on www.lexus.com. Do so by selecting "build your lexus" and it will give you an MSRP to go by. Then when folks from your area tell you what price to expect, you know how much off the MSRP it is.
Any time I can drive over 40, the problem is not as apparent. But slowing down and speeding up at low speeds is beginning to annoy me.
I currently have 2500 miles on my vehicle, which I purchased on March 15. I am beginning to really hope that Lexus comes out with a fix for this, because I plan to keep my car for a long time and do not look forward to having the problem for the next 10 years.
Sticker (MSRP) with all those options plus delivery = $39,963.
Dealer's invoice at the time was $35,275.
I purchased for $37,775 on March 15. This is $2,187 below MSRP and $2500 over dealer's invoice.
Prices may be lower now than they were two months ago.
I liked the car so much that I drove it out 3 times during work to have some fun.
To my diappointment today, I found a small (as big as this letter 'O') sized paint chip in the front portion of the car. I have no idea how I got it.
Now I am thinking whether it's worthwhile to have the $895 3M front protection thing (basically a clear, invisible car bra) that the lady in the Finance and Insurance department pitched to me when I bought the car.
Fellow ES300 drivers, did you get the thing? Is it worth it?
I hope it gets better. Actually, I'm frustrated with the dealer as well. Lexus dealer on the west side of Houston on I-10. They promised to call me back three times to set up an appointment with a Lexus Engineering Rep. and then they blow me off. It's been a month now and I'm taking up the issue with Lexus Headquarters in California.
I think the only way this will be addressed is through negative publicity. I urge everyone to complain as much as possible.
Thanks
But in the end, I figured the feature is to cool down the car, and what better place to let hot air escape than up through the moonroof (since heat rises).
>Probably just told me that to get to shut up.
Haha, yah, I think they do that to me too.
Does anyone else have this feeling?
My son had an accident to my wife ES 300 -97 w/ 27,000 miles on it last Sunday morning. The car still under warranty.The impact so bad the whole front and side is gone.Luckily no bad injuries to my family.And so amazing, both airbags,driver and passenger side do not work.Stayed peaceful in their enclosures.It happened once during last year w/ my brother 91 LS 400 accident.The car was totally lost and the airbag still intact.So this time I want talk to the Lexus people before bring it up by my lawyer.Some one have Lexus representative in US email, phone # so I can call or email to them w/ all supporting pics.
Thank you- Can email me @ :"mle204@hotmail.com"
Here is an e-mail for a Toyota representative. Please e-mail him and he will try to help or he surely will direct you to someone in Toyota who can assist you: corpcomms@toyota.com
Was this a direct front-end crash (head-on) or were they hit off-front or to the front side? Airbags are designed to only activate on frontal crashes. Please keep us informed of your progress. Please let me know if you were able to contact the Toyota representative at the above-mentioned e-mail address. Your insurance agent should know if the airbags should have deployed in this type of crash. Please talk to him and I am sure he can help you. You may e-mail me if you wish at fredvh@yahoo.com
This morning when I drove my ES to work, I tried to leave the gear in the 4th gear instead of D(overdrive), the car seemed to accelerate to higher rev. before up-shifting to a higher gear. When the car was slowed down, the transmission seemed to stay on the same gear as long as it could.
I will suggest you to try it out to see if staying with the 4th gear will fit your driving needs. It seems that the ES300 transmission uses different kind of gear shifting algorithms when the gear is in the 4th or overdrive.
This makes a drastic difference in gas mileage, and depending upon where one drives every day, can have more of an impact than stop and go traffic.
As a car owner, I thought when someone purchase the car, he think about safety first by always picking the car w/more safety feature if they can afford it.Basicly seat belt first and after came air bags .Driver air bags,next is passenger side airbags and...now side airbags. No one told me that in order to make airbag working, the car must met a certain parameters as you said.Only they said that to provide more safety for oeople.Luckily no one want have opportunity to test the functioning of their airbag by involving into an accident.If not lucky, during a bad accident like mine, they lost their live and no one complains that his air bag do not meet some parameters to deploy and he not here either to understand why.
I'm not against Lexus,actually I driving a LS 400, and I still planning upgrade it to LS 430 this coming september.But before that,I will pursuit this matter till it's solved friendly or legally.
It's nt first time, it happened once w/ my brother 91 LS 400 last year which is totally lost and airbag not deploy.He got a 97 LS and forgot it because may be it's too old so airbag can be mal functioned.
Mine is different, it had two,driver and passenger side and none is deployed.
My goal is very simple, just to get the refund of the non functioning air bags when they are not working as advertised , secondly want lexus people provide some place, some way to test the air bag functioning of mine and other lexus owner (including you too,if you own a lexus.) So every one will be sure that their car are reliable and SAFE.
I don't want make any money on them.We are so lucky that no serious things happened to us.If some one tell me how to post pics in this page I will post them so lexus owner will understand why I wrote these lines. Thanks.
This accident happened during a curved turn in a 2 lanes drive, to avoid an other car head on us, we moved to the right and lost control, hit to a tree, bounced to an other tree......
Is it the purpose or airbag to protect us in these circumstances?
We can test airbags only once not twice.
Just as mentioned though, certain accelerative (decelerative) forces must be experienced for the airbags to inflate. So, even though you may have careened from one tree to the next, and your car incurred multiple thousands of dollars worht of damage, the forces experienced may just not have been high enough to activate the SRS. I can imagine the incredibly small probability that both you AND your direct relative experienced a Lexus airbag failure, especially since neither of those vehicles have been recalled or investigated by the NHTSA for faulty deployment (or lack thereof), which has happened with various makes and models from time to time.
In addition, I would agree that the fact that you were thankfully uninjured perhaps speaks to the fact that the airbags did not need to be activated for the car to offer significant crash protection.. it almost seems as though you feel to a degree that they should have inflated just because the car was equipped with them, although perhaps I am not reading your post correctly.
Had you (God forbid) sustained an injury which the airbag could have prevented possibly, you might have a better case with Lexus.
Good luck, though, and I hope you dont face the airbag inflation dilemma again.
~Joe
After reading about all the problems you Lexus ES300 owners are having with your cars, I am soooo glad I didn't lease one. I am not ANTI LEXUS...in fact just the opposite. My parents both have 2001 LS430's and I love the cars. They drive great and are beautiful inside. But I will say this at the risk of offending Lexus owners. They are going to lose a lot of would be owners of their cars (like myself) because they think their cars are made out of gold and are losing the focus of what made their cars such a great bargain compared to BMW, Mercedes and other cars that go head to head at what used to be much higher prices.
I also looked at the Acura TL, Volvo S80, and the Audi A6. I wound up with the new Audi A6 3.0 loaded with every possible option (Xenon headlights, back up crash avoidance alarm, leather, sunroof, etc...). This car drives like a dream and all scheduled maintenance as well as all repairs are covered for my entire lease...4 years of 50,000 miles (brake jobs, oil changes, even wiper blades). The drive of this car isn't the same "cushiony" ride as the Lexus...you can actually feel the road and it has the German performance to back up the name. Lexus better get their act together!!! Plus, I found out afterward, that Lexus has already had a recall on the 2002 Lexus/Camry for something with the steering wheel.
If you are looking for a mid-lux car thats perfect, you wont find one, but the ES is close.
~alpha
Yesterday I already talked to Lexus satisfaction department and they will send some one to inspect it within 2 WEEKS.I'm not yet know what's decision of my insurance 'bout the car now,only 2 days after the wreck, the appraiser back from towing yard, give me call telling that my car might be totaled.So you can guess what kind of impact the car already suffered.I'm waiting on Lexus inspection results and I guess will be similar with your opinion.Think about Ford Explorer problems , do they accept their mistake ? Obviously,never they recognize their mistake .They afraid of their consequences. My case very simple.Good things ubder God protection no serious things harm us.What I'm asking for very simple and easy too.My goal is for the safety of myself and all other Lexus owners.My self I'm a Lexus fanince 91, my actual car is a LS 400-96, 3rd revised model,my 1st was a 91 LS 400. Because they are so great, I got a ES 300-97 for my wife and planning trade mine in to get a LS430.Never checking paper work to find out air bag problem or some thing else, because I trust on their reliability and their safety.Thanks to GOD.Since 91 till now, no accident to me.And I'm sure that no body wish to have an accident to test the functioning of their air bags,so they can examine point by point as your opinion if they do not deploy.Remenber that, can test once only, second time if they are lucky enough to survive.Last night on TV there is an ad for a car, I forgot the brand name, the car just been hit by an animal, and driver airbag, passenger airbag, side air bag, every thing deployed.They do not mentioned anything 'bout accelarating or decelerating. Just saying to protect people . An other gentleman told me that in order to get it work, the speed must be 15 miles/hr min.Actually on the roads now , none driving that speed, may be in parking deck or garage.
I want mentioned one more time that never I want make money on this matter.God already gave me enough so I enjoying luxury cars now, not a Yugo.Just to ask Lexus to act now, how? don't know beside What I'm asking.Do not wait until dozen of lexus owner been killed or recall required by National safety Transportation Board or some thing else happened.Do we need bring cars within a certain years old in for inspection or ...
My ES 300 still under warranty.I copied these line for info to all actual or furure Lexus Owner.
1. The 2002 ES 300 is faster than your friend's 1999. Maybe your friend drives harder, maybe it's perception. Whatever, the 1999 is slower. And if I'm not mistaken, the A6 3.0 is pretty slow itself.
2. Lexus cars are still great bargains vs. BMW. I have a 2002 ES 300. I also looked at a BMW 330i. Comparably equipped that car was $44,000. And the Mercedes C-Class goes toward $50,000. What was the price on your Audi? I'm sure as much if not more than the ES 300.
3. While the Audi's maintenance cost is covered, that does not make up for the inconvenience of servicing the car. Two people in my office have Audis (both bought new). Here's what they have experienced:
a. 2001 A4 - Car was six months old. My co-worker was driving 75 miles to home from a client when all of the lights, inside and out, went out. Since it was dark out, she called roadside assistance. They would not come out since the car could be driven. Ridiculous. It then took three days to fix the car (electrical malfunction).
b. 2002 A6 - Car was three months old. Wipers started going beserk when it wasn't raining. Dealer said they could fix it in one day. Gave a Cavalier from Enterprise as a loaner. Dealer then needed one full week to address the electrical issues. Finally car was ready. A few days later the car stopped shifting out of first gear and is now back at the dealer.
c. Another co-worker has a two-year-old Passat (I know, it's a VW) that has also had numerous electrical problems. And the car has not started on several occasions.
Getting the service paid for under warranty doesn't help having to deal with the inconvenience of constantly going back to the dealer. Or wondering if your car will start. Or thinking what will go wrong next.
No question the Audis are nice to look at and sit in. I know this is only based on two examples (and one VW), but that's enough evidence for me to stay away from these cars.
I am not an Audi-hater, and I do hope you enjoy your car. But it is wrong to say Lexus needs to get their act together. While you may think this, the majority of car buyers in this market think Lexus is doing just fine as the ES 300 is far outselling its Audi counterpart.
Again, I don't want any hard feelings. I'm just stating my opinion. Enjoy your new car.
lk5727@aol.com
Be aware that the gas mileage might drop a little bit because the higher ratio of the 4th gear vs. the overdrive.
If you have chances to drive on the freeway with speed over 60 miles, try to use the overdrive. By this way, your transmission might "learn" how to shift with your driving habit.
My ES has over 6K miles, and I am still trying to "teach" the transmission how I want it to shift. The major difference I can feel between now and day one is the transmission can hold one gear up to 3K rpm before shifting up if press the gas harder vs 2.2K rpm when it was 2k/3K miles. And the acceleration of the car is much, much better and smoother now, I can feel the momentum when I press the pedal.
Although the ES transmission has all these issues, but I can see it will continue to improve when I get to 10K. And thinking about enjoying the luxury interior and many other fine features(NAV,ML,etc.), I can live with the transmission problem as long as it always functions.
I buy a new car about every 7-10 years, so I'm not sure if today that represents a good deal. On paper it looks like the dealer more than split the difference between invoice and sticker. What do you think?
Also, am not sure if I want the black leather or charcoal. Am a little concern that the lighter charcoal coler will show scuff marks more than the black will. Would appreciate actual upkeep experience from owners with the charcoal color.
However, I am single and have no children. There have not been many scuff marks. Over the regular mats, I have places those little bathroom rugs, which I purchased from Bed Bath and Beyond. I have sheepskin seat covers on the front seats, and I keep charcoal colored towels in the car, one on the passenger seat, and one on the rear seat, because I fear that something (like the ink from an ink jet printer) will get on the seat cover (front) or the leather (rear seat).
If I were concerned, or if I often carried other passengers, particularly children, I would get the black, provided it were an option for you.
I think ramzak got one of the best deals on a loaded car, but he is in the West, not the east as you are. My deal is on msg 2517. But it appears as though I had a different MSRP than you do. Does the vehicle you are looking at come with AVS?
From this board, it looks as though prices have come down a little in the past couple of months. I think it is because of the shortage because Sept 11 fears caused Lexus to scale down production. Put another way, cars were in short supply back in March. Good luck.
As for color, I wanted something lighter so it would not be so hot during the summer. The drawback is wear and tear will be more visible but I still prefer the lighter interior. Personal preference.
My car should be arriving in a couple of weeks.
Hope this helps.
the same snapping noise. when it first happened
I thought a stone hit the windshield. I checked
with the service manager and he said the noise comes from the dash. I kind of think that this popping noise is fairly common with the ES300 model. After a while you get use to it....ha
Just got a letter today from Lexus Division saying that engine damage can occur if oil isn't changed often enough. Engine can become damaged from "oil gelling" or sludge. They stated that engine will be covered for eight years (unlimited miles) against any oil related damage. Everyone should change their oil at the recommended intervals.
I should add that I am not asking this rhetorically: I sat in a Lexus because I hoped it would be MUCH more comfortable, and if it was, I would consider buying it now, and take the trade-in loss, as I am tired of trying to fix my Camry seat. Incidentally, I also sat in a Mercedes C class - the seat was so hard and ill-shaped (for me) that I didn't even take it for a test drive. The new CTS Cadillac was similar. The Accord was more comfortable than the Mercedes or Caddy, but less so than the Camry/Lexus. In this regard, three different auto upholsterers have told me that they get all makes in for seat problems, and that the fault is in the new style of preformed foam seats with few or no springs which are used in virtually all cars now.
The snapping noise comments were for the previous generation ES, not the '02.
I have not had any issues with the '02 transmission personally, although I wouldn't mind getting a code update if they ever release one. My friends with the same '02 ES don't have any issues with it either. I wonder what % of '02 ES owners have to complain b4 Lexus takes some action.
I find the seats in the '02 ES to be very comfortable. I'm sorry to hear the Camry and ES seats don't suit your body. The front seats of the ES supposedly have an active suspension system.
On a side note, I like the Camry they sell in Asia. They've made it more upscale for the Asian market.
I will say I have had no problems whatsoever with my 2002 ES 300. The car shifts very smoothly and the seats are among the best I've ever sat in.
I find the ES to be a great car.
As for the seat, several of you say you find it very comfortable. That suggests to me that it is different from the Camry seat - I am by no means the only Camry owner complaining about the seat. Can you tell me if Lexus offers different seats for different models of the ES300? Perhaps I should try it again. Also, does anyone know if a Lexus 2002 ES300 seat - that is, the entire assembly, not just the foam insert - can be installed in a 2002 Camry LE? After all, there are many structural similarities between the cars. Thanks again.