Lexus ES 300/ES 330

movingup · August 2002

I think I may have built this car up too much in my head before test driving. I took the demo out yesterday for about an hour on all kinds of roads. It had the NAV option (which I can't afford) that was very cool! I think I would love this at night when I'm in unfamiliar surrounding and it is hard to read street signs. However, several things were disappointing to me.

First, I never could find a comfortable driving position. I was either straining for the steering wheel or was too close for leg comfort. The leather felt pretty stiff (does it soften with time?) Second, the visibility out the back window through the rear view mirror was very limited. I was surprised at this, but suspect it is related to the new body style since I didn't notice this on the 2001 model. The most disappointing of all was the quality of the ride. It was a rougher ride than I expected out of this car. I can honestly say it wasn't as quiet as I expected, either. Now, I'm coming out of a '95 Camry (lots of noise due to age of car) so it should have seemed like a dream come true. As I drove home in my old reliable Camry I noticed that the seats were more comfortable than the ES300! Has anyone else had similar reactions? I'll drive it one more time before my final decision and after I drive the Acura TL. But, I'm not feeling good about it right now.

awhoughton · August 2002

I have a friend who purchased an 1994 ES300 with approx. 50,000 miles on it from a Lexus dealer. The dealer did the standard 128 point inspection on the car.

The car recently had some problems (after about 6,000 miles of use) and the dealership said it needed a new engine. Now, the car is under the mileage limit for the warranty, but over the years (6 years, 70,000 miles drivetrain warranty). The vehicle was not certified.

Is there anyway to get any warranty relief from the dealer or from Lexus on this matter? Any suggestions? Is this something that the dealer should have noticed in their '128-point' inspection?

Thanks!

alpha01 · August 2002

The standard 128 point inspection occurs only with the "Certified" pre-owned sale. If the vehicle was not certified, then I see no reason to believe it went through the 128 point inspection.

Had the car been eligible for the certification (but it is NOT, b/c it is a 1994-too old), a major engine problem should have been noticed(theoretically), and at that point, once that problem became known the dealer would have had to make a choice-
1) repair/replace the engine and sell as a "Certified" car
2) sell as is, if the fix is too costly.

However, the dealer did not need to make this choice, as stated, because a 1994 model is too old to be considered for certification. Your friend got a bad sample- they always tell you to beware of especially low milage used cars.

It sucks, but your friend is screwed.
~alpha

bartalk2 · August 2002

Thanks for your comments. The ES300 interior is gorgeous and certainly sets it apart from the Camry line. I did test drive one, but it was before a lot of transmission complaints surfaced here, and I didn't focus on it. But I recall something about it bothered me; it didn't seem particularly smooth or responsive, but I dismissed it in my mind because Toyota is renowned for excellent and smooth-shifting transmissions (best in the business along with GM probably). I need to drive another one. The comment above, however, on expensive replacement of shocks on cars with adaptive suspension gives me pause, however.

Reluctant as we are to admit it--given Lexus' sterling reliability reputation--based on what I've read here over the last months, my conclusion is: this car has lots of bugs. Hard to believe. A Lexus? The gold standard of the auto industry? How can it be? Say it isn't so. (Someone will.)

rtorreca · August 2002

mmccloskey - looks exactly like mine. Same with the others I test drove. It would be nice if it blended right in.

atoews - that's how my car drives plus the shuddering. Still drives me crazy to this day.

I get a feeling that the 02 es300 will have the lowest resale value compared to the previous es's due to this problem.

fredvh · August 2002

Does anyone have an idea when the 2003 ES300 will be here and if there are any changes?
mike: I see what you are talking about. If it was mine I probably would not have noticed it. It would not bother me.

lenscap · August 2002

You knew this was coming

I'm not quite sure I agree with your assessment that this car has "lots of bugs."

Yes, it does seem that some people appear to have a slight hesitation in their transmission. That is the only problem I have read about in the 10 months this car has been out.

My car has no transmission problem, so I can't comment on what others are experiencing. But if what they say is true, that does not mean the car has "lots of bugs." That would be one bug.

Check out the BMW 7 Series boards and you'll see what "lots of bugs" really means. Further, check out the new Car & Driver - a guy writes in that not only does his 745i have lots of problems, BMW told him he should expect these things. After that you can read the Mercedes C-Class board and all the problems with that car. And if I had time, I'd tell you about the myriad of problems (both mechanical and dealer-related) two of my coworkers have endured with their new Audis.

Having owned a 1995 ES 300 prior to my 2002, I can say this car is far superior to my old one (which was a great car too) in every way. If there were any type of problem I would be the first to admit it. But my car has stellar so far. Enough so that two of my friends have bought them also.

Although some people are unhappy with their purchase, that probably happens with every car. I just haven't experienced or read enough evidence to think that Lexus' reputation is tarnished. And compared to BMW, Mercedes and Audi Lexus is still world's ahead in quality.

Your opinion is certainly valued, but I repsectfully disagree.

(Don't be too harsh on your reply!)

maxhonda99 · August 2002

bartalk2, Any reasonable person would expect the shocks for AVS equipped cars to be more expensive. After all the AVS shocks do have more mechanical and some electrical parts that probably go with them. I wouldn't call that a bug.

SO far, it seems like the tranny issue is the only big issue. And therefore that is one bug.

joeh80 · August 2002

Do you really think you are getting a fair all around opinion about the ES300? Naturally you are going to here about all the complaints and nitpickers in this forum. The majority of the owners and I happen to be one of them are ecstatic about the 02 ES300. I have tried to figure out what all the transmission talk is about but mine shifts perfectly. Overall it is the best car I have ever owned. I have 1000 miles and 2 months with the car and my wife and I love it.

atoews · August 2002

Lenscap, I agree with your opinion. Judging by this board, there is only one bug - the transmission.

In fact the complaints on this board indicate what a good car it really is. I'd give the ES300 board the award for citing the nitpickingest complaints of any other car!!

1) Someone on this board said the leather was stiff. WHAT!!!! Geez, Louise. If the leather were any softer, people would be complaining about how squishy it is. And it certainly would not hold together at the stitching line.

2) There has been about one half a page dedicated to 1/4" misalignment on the dash design. Really. If we dedicate space on our board complaint for a 1/4" misalignment, then that in itself indicates that the car is close to perfect.

3) Noise? Goodness, the noise level has been MEASURED, for goodness sake, and PROVEN lower than other vehicles.

I think my car is close to perfection. I don't even have a "power" problem. In fact, I am more concerned that during the course of my ownership the gas situation in this country will cause me to wish I had a Corolla or something like that.

I am one happy camper with my vehicle.

atoews · August 2002

Yes, kreativ, I read a complaint on the LS board where the symptom sounded exactly like mine. Shuddering, jerkinesss, delay all are descriptions of the same problem.
Interestingly enough, the LS owner was wondering why she was the only one who felt the problem. No one else on the LS board mentioned it or responded to her complaint. Since the message was written 2001, I did not respond.

I have no doubt the problem was there in the LS. And that makes me not feel so bad, if my only problem is also in the LS. It raises my hope that they will fix it in the ES300. If they do, I will smile a lot because I will feel that I have the perfect car.

kreativ · August 2002

This issue may be hard to spot because I've noticed in my LS that it's difficult to reproduce. For some reason, I've only experienced it on the same stretch of road. Perhaps the way I drive there (certain speed, letting off gas at certain area, etc.) is what is needed to reproduce this issue. Anyways, it's been over a year since the last time I experienced that.

Keep in mind this is a first-gen LS. If we are in fact talking about the same issue, I wouldn't expect a fix for it anytime soon if owners of newer LS and GS, as well as the '02 ES in your case, experience the same thing.

kymmy123 · August 2002

Atoews, did you hear from Lexus as yet? I also posted a leter on planetfeedback.com. I am sure they are going to try to maintain thet car was desigened this way, this is what we bought so there is no problem.

Kreativ, can you email me some for info on your friends experience regarding your post #2822? Thanks!

atoews · August 2002

movingup and mccloskey - did not mean to denegrate or diminish your opinions.

As far as seat comfort goes, Consumer Reports reported that some longer legged drivers find a lack of support in the seats. I myself find them wickedly comfortable, and so do most of my passengers.

As far as stiffness of leather goes, it is much softer and more pliable than that of the Camrys and Solaras I test drove.

I think the leather is the same as that in the higher end Lexuses, isn't it, kreativ?

atoews · August 2002

But I really don't expect to. I have spoken with several employees of various Lexus dealers. The answer differs depending upon who answers the question. I'd accuse them of giving me the runaround, but their responses run along the range of those you hear on this board.

The majority of employess (salesman, fleet managers, service department personnel) say they haven't heard of, or felt the problem. (Makes sense, because most on this board don't seem to feel it.) Some say yes, it is there, but it is no big deal - not worth making a huge complaint about. (Not surprising either, since some on this board express the same sentiment.) And a minority say they really hate it.

Bottom line is this: Since the majority of owners don't have the problem, those of us who want the problem fixed need to complain loudly and clearly and in as many forums as we can. How Lexus responds to me or whether they respond personnally doesn't really matter. As an owner who has no desire to sell my car, my only concern is whether Lexus provides a fix.

Of course, if you are in the position where a response will determine whether or not you will make a purchase, you want resolution ASAP.

bartalk2 · August 2002

I guess I concluded that the ES300 was troublesome because Lexus standards are so high, one expects their cars to be 100% perfect, so anything less seems surprising. It's all a matter of expectations. This is obviously unrealistic on my part. With other cars, when you hear about problems, you're not surprised. Problems with Audis, MB, VW, even BMW--that's to be expected. On a level playing field, I guess, Lexus' record is still quite amazing.

Problems with the BMW 7 Series even made "All Things Considered." To do simple things like turn on the radio you have to scroll through a half dozen menus or something. Talk about computer overkill. Whatever happened to the old fashioned and remarkably user friendly...knob???

mmccloskey · August 2002

Greetings:

I was not taken aback by your comments about my nitpicking on the gap between the door trim and dash. I am one to 'tilt windmills' - examining something until I find a flaw. I was lead to believe that Lexus is the pinacale of automotive perfection. In this life there is no such thing as perfection but my ES300 comes darn close.

I know I made the best choice in this particular class of car. I wanted luxury, quietness, quality and dependability and the ES300 has all those attributes and more. There may be more prestige associated with Mercedes, BMW, Audi and the like, but when I'm behind the wheel of my ES300, those other cars don't hold a candle.

Transmission: I did give that 'test' that someone suggested a try and noticed a lag in the time I pressed the accelerator and the transmission kicking down to move out. Still, I don't think it's anything serious. I have been cruising along at about 60MPH and would 'kick it' and the car would move out and I'd be up to 80MPH in short order.

Milage: I can't believe I'm getting such good gas mileage! I filled up again (8 gal Exxon Premium) and got just over 28MPG based on miles traveled (90% highway) - quite good in my book!

Happy motoring to all

atoews · August 2002

Good to hear that. My boyfriend hypothesizes that trying to find the flaw is largely a female trait. :-)

kreativ · August 2002

Yes, the "Regency" leather used in the '02 ES is the same as that used in the flagship LS430. I've read it's one of the best being used in luxury cars. Don't know about that, but I do like the feel of it.

kymmy - Sorry, I don't have any other info other than what I already posted (which was what I had heard).

movingup · August 2002

atoews, don't worry, not much offends me. Different things are important to different people. I plan to drive another ES300. My boyfriend told me that tire pressure could have made a difference in the smoothness of the drive. His 2002 ES300 came off the lot with too much pressure in the tires and he blew a tire driving home! Wouldn't that just make your day? So, I'm driving one from a different dealer today and trying harder to get comfortable. I do have long legs, but at 5'9" I don't think I am any more than average in that department. I think the leather feels stiff to me because I am coming from an older car with cloth seats.

Thanks

mjs4 · August 2002

It's been a while since I wrote. The last time was when I said I had a wobble in the steering wheel when I applied the brakes. It was the rotor. They turned it and now it's just like new. I asked the shop what would make it do that and he said riding the brakes. Never had that problem before, but it's fixed and I'm happy. If you look at the door and how it is made you will see that the gap has to be there between the door and the dash. I really don't see the problem!! As for the leather it is GREAT!! I've had leather in my last 2 cars and this is the best.. One of those was a 2000 Avalon. As for being quite and smooth, it doesn't get much better. Yes I do like the car and would buy it all over again. The tranny is a little slow sometimes , but most of the time it's just fine. It all depends on what speed I am at when I step on it. I think I'll go for a drive... P.S. Love the ML stereo Van Morrison sounds real good!!!

maxhonda99 · August 2002

Cars come shipped with over 40lbs of pressure. Some dealers don't check it either. The last car I picked up had the pressure set at over 40lbs. I noticed it about 2 days after I brought it home. That could definately be causing the rough ride. Also, a brand new car is going to ride rougher than a car with 1000 miles on it because the shocks, springs, etc. aren't broken in yet. The car will get smoother riding as it is used a bit.

ruggedland · August 2002

I've had over 9k miles on my 02 ES300 (bought in Feb). I've been reading a lot on this board about the transmission problem other owners have (or "perceived to have"). In my opinion the transmission problem is a real issue. I can't believe some others are saying that there's no problem at all. I'm still hoping that Lexus would come out with some fix with 03 model.

To me, this problem is most noticeable when in stop-go situation. In other word, when you try to accelerate the car right after pushing the brake pedal, the car will hesitate for a second or so, and the accelleration is not smooth in this situation. This is my first Toyota-made car. Most of my previous cars were Hondas, and I didn't have such a problem before.

Eerything else about this car is very good so far. But transmission is transmission, and if Lexus doesn't fix it soon, they may start to lose market share in this segment.

mz1234 · August 2002

What is the percentage of (other) cars having transmission hesitation problem?

I used to have a 1990 Ford Tempo. Among many problems of that car, the transmission of Ford Tempo "hesitates" for roughly 0.5-1.0 sec when one speeds up.

I also remember Consumer Report mentioned Lexus ES300 5-spd tran is NOT as smooth as some of cheaper Toyota cars (Camry?), as one previous post pointed out before.

Was tran. a problem for earlier ES300 models, namely 4-spd transmission days? Lexus eggineers can't handle upgrading a 4-spd tran. to a 5-spd tran.? If indeed it's due to software/firmware bugs, I don't think it's that difficult to fix.

-mz1234

rtorreca · August 2002

I have driven a 00 ES300 4-Spd and it shifts much smoother than the 02.

If I had a ford tempo and the tranny hesitates, I wouldn't be surprised. I'd expect it even. It's a low-end car. You get what you pay for.

But on a 35K Lexus, there's no excuse. I didn't get what I paid for in this case. I paid too much.

Here's a snippet for Edmund's First Drive:

"The V6 has been mated to a new transmission, upgraded from a four-speed to a closer-ratio five-gear unit. Upshifts are crisp enough, but downshifts are sludgy and come only after the car thinks about it for a while. Under most normal driving circumstances, it's perfectly acceptable, but trying to wring some spirit out of the ES 300 is more of an exercise in futility; it's as if some goblin had poured butterscotch sauce into the fluid reservoir. This could be attributed to our test car's status as a prototype vehicle; future production units could be in for more fine-tuning."

Even the Edmunds editors felt something wrong with the tranny. This is not a "perceived" problem.

atoews · August 2002

What I meant when I said "perceived" is that there are some owners, perhaps the majority, who do not experience or perceive the symptom. There are others who experience the symptom, but who do not perceive the symptom as a problem. I am NOT saying that those who experience the problem are making it up in their minds!!!!

I am convinced that if rtorecca or texas83 or I were to drive the vehicles of those who claim no symptom, we would indeed be able to recreate the symptom in those vehicles. Put another way, I am convinced that the problem causing the symptom is in all 02 ES300s.

But it is also true that the symptom only happens with some, not all, drivers and under some, not all, driving conditions. Perhaps those with no symptom do not drive in ways that would cause the symptom.

The only point in saying that it is a perception issue is to explain why many owners and Lexus employees "deny" the issue. If you don't consider this a perception issue, then the only alternative is accuse owners who say they don't have the problem as being in abject denial and dealers who say there is no problem of being abject liars. Unbelievable as it is to you and me, we need to accept that some are not perceiving the symptom.

aceking2000 · August 2002

Hi! Everyone:

Looks like the transmission has been a hot topic here again for the ES300. After reading a the most recent messages, I feel it is necessary to give some comments. Just to keep this board interesting.

Atoews, I agreed with what you said in your response to rtorreca, who appears to have unfortunately bought the worst Lexus ES300 among us. Perceptions and road conditions can definitely affect the performance of the car but I can't see how they can affect the performance that much.

I do not know what to tell you but I consider myself as a 'sporty' driver and I can have this car overtake other cars any time I want with NO hesitation. I would really like to drive your cars just want to see how demanding you guys are. If you want this car to be a race car or to be a car like Acura TL Type R, then this car is not going to serve that purpose. But if you just want comfort ride..then you have chosen the right car.

atoews · August 2002

You live in the Troy, Mich area, don't you?

Next time I visit my relatives, maybe I can drive your car! I live in California so it is a long way to drive mine, but if I do someday, maybe we could test drive one another's vehicles.

My guess is that I could make your car do exactly what mine does!!! Furthermore, I think that when I repeated the problem you would know what I was talking about.

Even if we never make the opportunity for such a meeting, at least it is a good fantasy. We could meet, swap cars for respective test drives, and then report our results to this board.

In reality, although I would love to drive my car back to the Michigan area, I fly back for visits because I am reluctant to take the vacation time from work to make the 2500 mile trek. But who knows?

I noticed that you do not post as regularly to the board as a couple of others of us do. If you want, we can trade email contact info. My email address is: atoews@ridgecrest.ca.us. If I have your email address, perhaps I can notify you of visits to Michigan

rhrose · August 2002

I postponed purchasing a 2002 ES300 in the hope that Lexus would get more competitve in the HP department with the 2003 model. From the "rumors" I'm hearing the 2003 Lexus (dubbed the ES330) will get a increase in engine size to 3.3 liters with a corresponding increase in HP to the 240-250 range. Can anyone knowledgeable add credence to this rumor and give me a estimate as to when the 2003 model with the bigger engine will be available? Also, I would appreciate hearing any "rumors" regarding other changes/improvements one can expect with the 03 model. TIA

lenscap · August 2002

There will most likely be no changes to the 2003 ES 300. The bigger engine is coming, but probably not until fall of 2003 as a 2004. The engine will first appear in the new RX, and that will not be until next spring.

Also, I have yet to see a confirmation as to whether the engine will be a 3.3 or 3.5.

mz1234 · August 2002

More than one car websites (probably plus ES300 manual) states than fuel required for this car is **unlead regular**. Some post on this board
before mentioned the car is designed for premimu fuel and do notice performance difference between
premium gas vs. non-premium. Other post claimed otherwise.

Just like then transmission issue, it is supposed to be a clear-cut issue but again one can not draw conclusion based on the discussion here.

What is it, really?

kreativ · August 2002

atoews - "Even if we never make the opportunity for such a meeting, at least it is a good fantasy. We could meet, swap cars for respective test drives, and then report our results to this board."

Okay, why can't my girlfriend have these kind of fantasies...

mz1234 - Look in your owner's manual for the official word on what your car is tuned for. For the '02 ES, it is 91 premium unleaded. For the V6 Camry, it is 87 regular unleaded. Why the difference when they're essentially the same engine? The ES V6 has VVT-i and is tuned for more Horsepower. The car can run on regular unleaded though (knock sensors retard the timing), although with decreased performance and a possible decrease in MPG.

maxhonda99 · August 2002

The bigger more powerful engine is coming for the 2004 model year, which would mean in 4th quarter of 2003. They won't switch to a new engine in the middle of a model year.

Since there are conflicting reports on the size of the engine in the '04 ES300, it could be that the ES300 will get a 3.3L V6 while the RX300 gets a 3.5L V6. This would primarily be due to the increased mass of the RX300 as well as AWD system and. SUVs typically need more torque for towing as well as acceleration as compared to traditional cars.

Overall though, more than one source I've read said 3.3L V6 in the ES300. I would think that would be right then.

coolguyky7 · August 2002

Is it necessary to have a 2 door ES model serving as a convertible?

http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/windom0203/index.html

atoews · August 2002

Anyone have a prediction on the gas mileage range of such a vehicle as opposed to that of the 02 ES300? Also, would more HP likely cause a price increase?

whotheman · August 2002

Either get a good deal now, or wait until next fall for the '04 facelift.

trinbago · August 2002

anyone has an idea what a fully loaded 300 is going for in the NJ area (everything less sport mode)?

mmccloskey · August 2002

I want to obtain an additional 6-Disk Cartridge for the CD-Changer mounted in the armrest of my 2K2 ES300 and was wondering if there is an alternate source besides the Lexus dealer.

etc. -

I now have over 1,700 miles on my 'dream boat' and truly look forward to every moment behind the wheel. I know the transmission issue is causing havoc for some but I am more than pleased with the performance, especially since I'm getting such great mileage. With the advent of a new/larger engine in another year or so, I would assume that the prices would increase while estimated mileage would decrease. More power has it's advantages, but the driving experience is so pleasant that I find no need to hurry!

M. J. McCloskey

kreativ · August 2002

Hmm, well I know with the Pioneer system in my LS I can get a Pioneer CD changer cartridge without going through the (rip-off) dealer. If I remember correctly, you have the Mark Levinson system though. Anything Mark Levinson is going to be expensive, but you might want to take the cartridge to a car audio shop in the chance that they use the same cartridge design as other units.

As for the price of the '04 ES330, there's a good chance it won't go up. There was no increase in pricing with the '01 to '02 transition...yet quite a few substantial upgrades in luxury, safety, etc. We should all be glad the ES has lower-priced competitors so Lexus can't jack up the price that much higher.

coolguyky7 · August 2002

Shouldn't the facelift come in 2005?

mm04 · August 2002

Too much pressure from my wife! I finally promised her an ES300. (she has been driving a 92 Accord since 92 so I owe it to her)

Local dealership offers 3000.00 off sticker, however they will match any other dealer's price.

Please help me out here and reply with the best price you've found on a new 2002 ES300 with Premium package and HID.

Thanks

rtorreca · August 2002

I think someone here got one for 1000 over invoice. The dealership was I think in northern NJ.

What is the standard audio included in the premium package (not ML)? My friend insists it's a Nakamichi(?). Bose? Pioneer?

Does your dealership give a free car wash even without a scheduled service?

I washed my car this morning and could not get some stubborn water spots from the hood. Any tips? I'd like to avoid letting someone else do the detailing because they might scratch the paint or wood trim.

(Hey, look! No mention of the tranny this time!)

kymmy123 · August 2002

do you want to discuss off line? send me your email address and maybe we can discuss off line!

kreativ · August 2002

The standard Premium Audio System in the '02 ES is made by Pioneer. Pioneer has been and is used in all standard Lexus audio systems except for the IS, which uses FujitsuTen for audio.

Mark Levinson replaced Nakamichi as the upgraded audio system option in all Lexus' that have that option.

Some Lexus dealerships give free car washes without service, most don't. Mine doesn't.

Any mild paint cleaner should take care of those water spots you have. A method to remove embedded contaminents on the surface that is preferred by many is to clay the car (ClayMagic from Autozone, Mother's from Pep Boys). Then, apply a quality polymer sealant afterwards (Klasse, Zaino). This will protect your paint for much longer than a traditional wax. With traditional waxes, I reapplied monthly. With a polymer sealant, I don't expect to have to reapply until a year later (have 3 layers on).

Still planning to get rid of your '02 ES?

rwong1998 · August 2002

for all those complaining about the hesitation in the transmission...take note that this reviewer in the third to last paragraph has the same complaint.

http://www.thecarplace.com/brlexes.htm

sopecreek · August 2002

Finally, I took my (wife's) 2001 ES300 (19K miles driven)to the dealer to check out the brake issues (grinding noise before it comes to complete stop and steering wheel vibration at high speed). The grinding noise was diagnosed to the metal contents in the pad that were too high. The pad was replaced under warranty. As expected, the vibration was due to the rotor slighly being warped. Lucky for me, it was also fixed (the rotor was turned) without any charge. The invoice does state it as one time good will service. The noise is gone now, so is the vibration.
The service took about 4 hours and as usual the dealer gave us the loaner car (RX300), and our ES was washed cleanly when we got it back. Last time we had service (15K scheduled maintenance), the loaner car was also RX300. My wife had never driven any SUV before (did ride in 4Runner but she thought it was harsh ride). She now vows her next vehicle will be SUV (I guess a car-based one). She is 5'2" tall, and the visibility (along with comfort) of RX300 seems to have impressed her quite a lot.
Anyway, I am quite satisfied with the results and the service. FYI, I'm in Atlanta area and the dealer is Hennessy Lexus of Atlanta. BTW, this dealer does wash our car whenever it is brought in to the dealer for any occasion.

atoews · August 2002

Thanks for that review link. One issue that is never mentioned, it seems, in reviews, has to do with the Nav. All reviews seem to state that the Lexus/ES300 Nav system is the best in the industry. What the reviews do NOT mention is that the same Nav system is in the Camry and the 2003 Avalon!!

So, one has to rule out the Nav system as a distinguishing factor from the Toyota line.

rtorreca · August 2002

Kreativ-thanks for the tip. Some questions: Is there a chance claying the car would scratch it? How long does it usually take?

As for getting rid of the car, I'll keep it for another year or two. I already lost a lot of money on the trade-in and I can't bear losing more if I get another one 6 months into this one.

Two weeks after posting my complaint on planetfeedback, I received a voice mail from Lexus Customer Satisfaction last friday apologizing for my "disappointment" with the es300. They left a number- 1-800 25-Lexus. I will call on Monday to find out my options.

atoews · August 2002

Clay bar should not scratch your car. But make sure you do not drop it on the ground (will pick up dirt) and be sure you use lubrication in accordance with instructions.

For some good tips, go to the "Zaino" board under "Maintenance and Repair" topic on the edmunds Town Hall. There are some fanatics on that board who post pictures of their "Z'd" vehicles.

I was a complete detailing novice until I started using Zaino. I don't know if Zaino is the best system or not, but it certainly seems the least controversial product/topic I have ever encountered. Seldom do you ever find a product where the negative comments are so few.

I have had good luck with Zaino Z-6 for removing water spots. Try the Zaino process. Your beautiful dark blue car would be an ideal candidate for the process. Also, note the following web sites:

http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html

http://www.autoswalk.com/dailautarjun11.html

for two studies involving Zaino.

dardson1 · August 2002

Toyota/Lexus has moved from fairly simple and clean design to the latest and greatest fad. Like everyone else they have mono-chromed their profiles and raised the belt-line which (industry wide) makes vehilces in general and Toyota/Lexus in particular look over-weight. When my lease is up on my '01 ES300 next year I may buy another one as it's best car I've ever owned, but it won't be because they're pretty. The new ones look like they need a few months at the gym to work off that fat belly. On the other hand I may drive the legs off my '01 'til the fad passes.

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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