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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
Any idea what a good price over invoice is?
Thanks
1. The interior is larger and seats more comfortable.
2. The car is significantly quieter.
3. Safety equipment is much enhanced.
4. It now acts like more of a cruising sedan than a sports car - since the IS fills the sporty bill.
Overall, it is as comfortable a car as I have owned. The only thing I would improve is to add some HP under the hood, which I understand the 04's will have. The power it has is more than adequate - but a little more zip would just enhance the overall car.
Is that true, is this symptom common to all ES300. Why has Lexus not provided any fix to this yet. Have other people noticed this ? Is n't this a serious problem which should be addressed. It could be personal style also but I am especially concerned when parking my car inside my garage since I have to be dead slow to avoid hitting the walls due to lurching.
Has anyone else opened a case with Lexus ?
My current cars are white; easy to take care of, good visibility, but this time, want something different.
My wife likes the Alabaster, which may make it unanimous. It's kind of a stealth color. I wasn't sure I cared for it at first, but the more I look at it, the more I like it. Something subtle about it.
I also like the silver, and to a lesser extent, the gold. (Decisions, decisions!) And I think the darker colors are very rich looking. But I wonder whether they'd be a bear to keep clean, and scratch free.
And I'm guessing (since I haven't seen the color) that the Starlite Pearl might be somewhat darker than the alabaster or silver, and a bit lighter than the Mystic Sea. I wonder where the Starlite falls in the "easy to keep clean" spectrum.
Cheers,
Bill
It's not a real problem to me.
I have been reading about the service and oil changes on this forum and had a question. I have always used Jiffy Lube or some type of quick-change location. It's fast and about $30.00. They also provide a lot of the services that are required on the 30K service. Would there be a reason that I would not want use these types of places? Thanks a lot.
Car color - Colors that are close to silver or gray are the easiest to maintain, as dust accumulation seems to blend in the best with these colors. It's hard to tell unless you're close up or you wash the car...then you think, wow, that was a lot of dust on the car. I used to think white was the easiest to keep looking clean, but silver tops it easily.
Service - I can think of a lot of reasons not to take your new ES to Jiffy Lube, or "these type of places". For starters, you're guaranteed to get an 'el cheapo' oil filter, and who knows if they change your oil with the right type of oil. Secondly, who knows what fluids they're using for the other services...it's certainly not Toyota's. For oil changes, Jiffy Lube and the other chains seem a safer bet than a lot of the gas stations and independent shops out there though. I know a local gas station which uses recycled oil (without telling the customer) and has a complete disregard for the oil weight requirements for a car.
Want the best for your car without paying the Lexus dealer markup? Pick up a bunch of 90915-20004 Toyota oil filters (Made in Japan by Denso, the best and largest OEM filter you can get for your ES) for ~$8/each from your Toyota dealer. And pick up a case or more of quality brand motor oil (Castrol, Pennzoil, any of the name-brands like Chevron), whatever is on sale. They go for as low as 59 cents/qt ($3 for the 5qts you need). Go to an oil change place that isn't busy and where you can watch them do the oil change. Labor shouldn't be more than $10-12. An oil change is a really simple thing as long as you have a lift so you don't have to crawl under the car. Total cost isn't more than $25, and not only are you giving your car the highest quality parts, but you know that it's being done right. And it usually takes less than half the time that the Lexus dealer would take. Not to mention you're getting a much higher quality filter than the Lexus dealer is going to give you, at half the price.
If this sounds like too much of a bother and you don't even want to think about the parts or how the service should be done, I would recommend going to the Lexus dealer for service. Lexus dealers aren't perfect either though. You'd think paying $50 for a tire rotation means they'll do it right. I know 3 instances when the service was paid for and they never even rotated the tires! (determined by marks placed on the tires). That's why I don't like it when i can't see my car being worked on. if it doesn't involving replacing parts and fluids that you can see have been changed, you never know whether it's done or not.
Good Luck.
Tire rotation is a service in which you do want your tires to be hand-tightened with a torque wrench to the proper 76 ft-lb (103N-m)spec. Once again, going to the dealer is no guarantee that this will be done.
Do you really mean that filter is better than the one the Lexus dealer will install? What filter would that be?
Also, my experience is that my Silver car is wonderful at hiding dust - of course, my last car was black, so anything is an upgrade in that department.
Who has pictures of their ES with custom 16" rims? I want to look at some...
Thanks Nick
I have a 2002 ES300 with high density headlights and of course the fogs. I have found that the headlights are so bright (and wonderful I might add) that when I turn on the fogs, I only see their incandescent impact to the sides and below the area lit by the HID's. In addition, fogs should be aimed down and to the outside. I have driven in pea soup fog in the country on a two lane road. You want the fogs to show you the center lane markers and the white shoulder markers. To have them pointing straight ahead and down is useless. You already know where the ground is, and anything you shine into the soup just comes back in your face. Hope that helps.
Nick
Anyway, last August I accidentally left the dome light on at an airport while going out of town. After getting a jump, I noticed while driving the car that the transmission shifted better. Apparently, the power failure caused the computer software to re-set and made things a lot better, but there still was a problem. At least I didn't feel like I was in danger any longer. In November Lexus installed a computer up grade which again helped, but I still occasionally have problems and this has been going on for eleven months. This is my first Lexus and I can say I've been shocked at the poor quality of service. They don't return phone calls and say they will look into things and blow me off. They even blew off the Quality Service Rep which she found shocking.
My hearing is February 19th. My only problem is that the Lemon Law won't apply to a manufacturers defects. I have to represent this as an individual problem. If the Lexus Rep calls it a manufacturers defect then I may not prevail. A friend told me a software fix is forthcoming in May, but I've heard that before, plus that is over a year since I bought the car. I do feel there may be liability under the Texas Deceptive Trades Practices Act, since Lexus new very well that many transmissions were suffering this problem when they sold me the car.
Perhaps if it gets fixed in May and I haven't purchased a different car by then, I'll reconsider.
For drivers 0f 2002-3 what octane gas are most using?
have you hired an attorney to represent you in the lemon law hearing? it might be worth the cost. BTW, there are two types of product defects- manufacturing defects and design defects. a manufacturing defect is a one-off defect (one bad car) and a design defect is a problem that effects every single car in the production line. I have not studied lemon laws but it seems a manufacturing defect is the type prescisely covered by lemon laws, whereas design defects may not be? You should talk to an attorney before entering that room.
I have talked with an attorney and the State Rep. for the Motor Vehicle Division and both said that a manufacturers defect is not covered by the Lemon Law. I have to present it as an individual problem. This may differ in other states. A friend of mine that is currently a factory rep. for Hyundai will be joining me as a witness. He's also worked for Toyota and Chrysler. One thing in my favor, it's certainly been more than long enough for Lexus to have fixed this. I think we are seeing a very arrogant company using it's former credibility to avoid dealing with a real problem.
But I have had an assortment of other problems with the car and poor service from the Lexus dealership. I sold an Infiniti to buy the Lexus. The Infiniti dealership in Richmond, VA offers far better service than Lexus.
I drove the G35 and came close to buying it, but I didn't care for the interior.
I still own a 1991 Acura Legend (original owner, 93,000 miles) that is close to bullet proof. And the Acura dealership has a better service department than Lexus.
Obviously, I would not buy the ES 300 if I had it to do over again.
You might want to consider waiting for the new Acura TL coming out soon as an early 04 model. I may be trading the Lexus for that. If you can live with rear wheel drive and like the interior, you will not be disappointed by the customer service at Infiniti.
That would lead me to think it will be offered at some point on the ES as well. It's fairly well known, although not confirmed, that the LS 430 and next GS 300/430 will offer AWD.
Most of us feel a slight hesitation, and many don't feel any symptom at all.
I was able to repeat this on several new ES300s, and thus ended up with a different car.
If you are fine with this unfortunate "characteristic" of this drivetrain, or can't feel it, you have a high likelihood of liking the car.
Can't go wrong with the rear drive and the stigma of camry twin.
Lexus Continues to Set the Industry Benchmark
In Long-Term Vehicle Dependability
Problems Reported at Four to Five Years of Ownership
Drops 7 Percent for the Industry
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: November 21, 2002
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—Lexus ranks highest in long-term dependability for the eighth consecutive year, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Vehicle Dependability Index (VDI) StudySM released today. All of the top five ranking nameplates in the study are Japanese brands, with Infiniti, Acura, Honda and Toyota following Lexus, respectively.
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=692&- amp;CatID=1
I bought my car with reliability the number 1 issue. I love BMWs, and owned a 320i, but I live far from a BMW dealer, and BMWs simply need more expensive repair/maintenance than Lexus.
I will be the first to say that anyone who purchases an ES300 for its handling is bound to be sorely disappointed. And none of us likes the idea of a "luxury" car with a hesitating transmission. If you want great handling, you'd better go for a different vehicle.
All in all, despite the fact that I experience the hestiation problem, I am satisfied with the car I bought, love my car, am comfortable in my car, and would purchase the vehicle again if I had the decision to make over again. That said, I really wish Lexus would issue an ECU fix for the ES300 transmission.
Also, athough I do not own an ES 300 or for that matter an Acura TL, I had seriously considered buying either one of these cars. However, after reading the postings on the respective boards, I decided not to risk owning a car with reliability problem, which is the most important factor in my car buying decision process.
I also agree that a car does not have to be a sports car to have a responsive transmission. You just want to make sure you can rely on your car, knowing what it can and cannot do, and that your car behaves in a predictable manner.
I now have an LS430, and that makes for another good story: All OEM Dunlops replaced due to uncurable vibration with a set of Michelins (now smooth). Steering wheel off to the left (now fixed). Rattles from driver's door and central dashboard (hopefully to be fixed).
Lesson: There are no perfect cars, just less expensive piles of sh**, and more expensive piles of sh**, no matter what make you buy.
One thing I will say: Lexus and the deal have been very responsive, and that has been a somewhat saving grace.
One of my previous posts (I don't remember the number) describes a simple road test one can do with an ES. Any prospective buyer should consider what I have said at least, since I speak from personal experience with the current ES300.
Now the down side. It sounds like I forfeit all my previous payments and interests no matter whether I go with the Lexus solution, or the state solution, and will have to pony up about $2-3,000 for use of the car. Then I have to buy the new car, which will be granted at a great discount. I'm not sure how much money I will be out in total yet. So this still isn't a cheap solution. I was thinking I would get a replacement car and simply maintain payments like I never changed cars. I'm considering, not settling, getting a ruling from the judge, and then taking this up in a suit under the Texas Deceptive Trades Practices Act. You can see I'm really upset. I bought the car for service as much as for quality, and all I've received from Lexus is a slap in the face. Any way I've had to put in a good deal of time and endure some pretty strong anxiety over this thing, and I'm not sure how much longer I want to keep pushing it.
A word to the wise when going to a dealer. They really know how to manipulate their records. When I went several times for the ceiling rattle as well as the transmission, they noted the ceiling rattle in the service ticket, but because they didn't have the software upgrade they purposely exclude that from the ticket. When I used some of my service tickets as evidence that I was there, I had nothing other than verbal testimony about the transmission software issue. Also, I went in once and they told me there was nothing they could do for my transmission or my rattle and sent me on my way in about 15 minutes. Lexus provided their service log, because I didn't request a service ticket, there was no record I came in that day even though they scheduled me with an appointment. In Texas you have to have four attempts with the dealer to qualify under the law. However, my testimony was pretty obvious that I wasn't telling a lie. The other thing that I learned was that it's in the dealers best interest to string you along as much as they can. You get dinged for the use of the vehicle and it's based on mileage exclusively of any reason for the delay. I pointed out this is a detriment to the customer for trying to work with the dealer. The judge said that's the law. Be sure you document things well, and remember it's in your best interest not to work with the dealer any more than possible.
In closing, Lexus still doesn't know when a final software upgrade is coming.
I'm curious whether there is a relation between the VSC option and the delay when flooring the gas pedal in the '02/'03 ES.
And was it ever determined whether the '03 ES experienced the same symptoms as the '02 ES?
texas83 - Glad to hear your court date went relatively well. Good luck in settling the situation! Car manufacturers tend to be more willing to make things right if news about problems with their cars hits the newspapers or other public sources. Toyota sure did when a vocal minority got the oil sludge issue into the media spotlight.
richm4 - Sounds more and more like it'd be more complicated to fix than just a software update.