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From what I gather, AWD in my area may be overkill. Even the occassional drives to the snow do not require it. This is great news! I can get the GLX 5-speed, save a few bucks, gain some power, and still feel safe.
Again, thanks for your input.
I definitely would choose the Passat over the Accord/Camry for the ride and driving experience (as well as the looks). The Passat is a better car in terms of safety as well. But, considering I plan to keep this car for 5-7 years, I think you have to give the advantage to the CamCord in that department.
I'm still a few months away from making a decision and there are lots of test drives in my future. All of the VW's (even down to the Golf) are loaded with lots of standard features not found on similarly priced cars. And with the new 4 year/50,000 mile warranty it's an attractive package. Thanks again for the info.
The Passat is a car that people either love dearly or hate if they've had a lot of problems with it. Those people who feel they've been "had" by VW and that their Passat is a lemon do seem to be very vocal, sometimes more so than those who have had a great experience with the car. I guess that's like anything else in life. People who've had a good experience tell 3 others, whereas those who've had a bad experience tell 30 others. (or something like that).
I have been tossing around the idea of trading my Camry for a Passat but I'm still undecided. I want to feel comfortable and happy with my decision and have no regrets. There are many good things to say about both cars, they are both excellent choices. However, I'm in no rush and I'm not pressed to get rid of my car, so like you, I'll continue to read and research until I'm ready to decide.
Good luck in your quest!!
SilverCrown
You just can't say a Camry or Accord is more reliable than a Passat, or the other way around. I am on my 3rd VW. All three have been problem free. Was my flawless Golf, Jetta or Passat any less reliable than a Camry or Accord? I don't think so. You can't get any more reliable than no problems.
Are the odds of getting a perfect Camry or Accord higher than the odds of getting a perfect VW? Maybe. There are plenty of people out there complaining about there Camry and Accords as well.
Is peace of mind your highest priority? If so, go with the Camry/Accord. Will it be perfect, probably. Will your VW be perfect, probably! It's not like you are buying a British car, odds are you will be fine.
Thanks in advance
I made some of the comments below on that board in the past but am repeating them on this board because of the current discussion.
Before the web I would have bought the Passat, for all I would have known was that I loved the test drive and that the Passat received great reviews in magazines. It wouldn't have been possible to hear about the experiences of very many owners. But with message boards, that experience is right before our eyes. And the experience is troubling.
One possible answer, which some Passat owners give, is that people with complaints are more likely to post on the various boards than people who are happy. That is no doubt true. But surely it is equally true of owners of _all_ cars. And yet, if you read the boards for different vehicles, the Passat boards (vortex, club b5, edmunds-vwpassat) have more complaints than most of the others I have seen. That is especially true if you try to factor in the number of vehicles of a particular brand on the road. {You would expect Honda Accords to generate more complaints than Passats because there are more of them.}
I'll call this the complaint to cars ratio.
I currently drive a trouble-free Honda Accord EX. Maybe it is especially difficult for us Honda owners to buy into the Passat because so many of us have grown accustomed to reliability.
How do Passat defenders respond to my point about the "complaint to cars ratio"? I would like to see evidence that it makes sense to buy a Passat, but every week or so there are comments on here that make me doubt that.
I need to purchase an extended warranty for my 2000 Passat V6, since I have 23,500 miles on my original warranty of 24K miles.
As I recall, there is an internet site where one can purchase an extended warranty that is apparently universally accepted without hassle but is available at a lower cost than one would pay at a dealer. I found the site once, and haven't been able to locate it since. It was not one of those one-size-fits-all Warranty Gold type companies, but had the Volkswagen name on it. However, I don't think it was endorsed by them. (As I write this, I'm wondering whether this is the way to go...)
Any help in locating this company's website would REALLY be appreciated --- also any advice about the overall best way to get this done quickly and efficiently from a good source.
Based upon looks, road manners, and the fun factor, the Passat is the clear winner. But the bullet-proof reliability of the Toyota line can't be beat either.
There are just TOO MANY choices out there when it comes to new cars. I'm only 39, but I believe there used to be a day in this country where you only had a choice between Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Chrysler...not no more!!
I think a lot of problems with cars can be prevented by just performing the recommended maintenance on the car. Oil change every 3,000 miles, factory recommended maintenance every 7,500 miles, and so forth. I've done that with every car I've ever owned and had absolutely no problems at all (3 cars over 100,000 miles trouble free)...Honda, Mazda, and Toyota.
The lease deals are so cheap right now that I might be able to simply trade cars and wind up with a LOWER lease payment than I have now with zero money down... my only new cost would be the license and tags.
This looks like a pretty balanced list of issues, under the heading "What problems have you had with your new Passat"
One thing is clear. VW has a dealer and service network that stinks. There are good ones out there, but they are rare. I'd be much braver about taking my chances with a Passat if I knew the local dealership was one of the rare ones with a good service department.
I do respedt the Camry,and actually like the brand new one,but all I remeber about the 98 my wife had is the color...
In terms of personal experience, I own a Toyota Avalon (Camry's brother), a Honda Accord and a VW Passat. I think they are all good cars. If I had to keep just one, I would probably the Passat. I feel more "connected" to it when I drive. But again, it is only my opinion. In other words, you cannot go wrong if you pick one of the three.
Good luck with your future purchase.
I've got a lot of homework and research to do, but if I end up buying the Passat, I think I might spend the extra money and get an extended warranty. I didn't realize there were so many issues with dealers, though. It sounds as if VW's have become very popular, but the dealer networks have not been able to keep up with the number of new owners and the related new work load. Thus, you end up with long waits for appointments and parts that are on back order. I never had that problem with the Honda or Toyota cars that I've owned in the past.
However, in terms of driving enjoyment, standard features, and looks, the Passat has the Accord and Camry beat in my opinion. This will definitely be a tough choice. Thanks again.
That's why you go to independent data-gathering organizations with data bases large enough to get beyond the relatively tiny sample that shows up on online message boards [and I don't care how many of them there are...the numbers are still a tiny % of the owner base]. The two that are the biggest and most trustworthy, Consumers Union and J.D. Powers, both agree that no VW model currently imported is going to be as trouble-free, either in the short or long run, as the Honda/Toyota/Nissan competition. That mirrors my own rather extensive experience over the past 40 years, as well, but my experience is like all those other micro-samples...too small to mean anything.
Buy what you want for whatever reasons you want; just don't let us yield to the temptation to deny the data because it doesn't happen to fit what we want to believe, or doesn't support the decision we want to make for other reasons. Love the car for what it is, but be realistic about what it isn't, as well...
And incidentally, those same large data bases suggest that the turbo-4 will in fact be more trouble-free than the V6, no matter what your intuition may tell you.
Thanks for the info.
CU rates the Passat as average reliability. If this was 1991, I would not buy any car rated average. Honda's and Toyotas in 1991 were the cars to buy if you wanted reliable transportation. The gap between average and better than average was huge.
Over the last 12 years the European and American cars have improved there reliability to the point where several models are as or more realiable as the Honda's and Toyotas of 10 ago. And those Hondas and Toyotas were reliable. Honda's and Toyota have also improved their relaibility but the gap has narrowed. Hondas and Toyotas are still rated much above average. However the relative average rating of the Passat now points to it being a reliable car.
If my 2001.5 Passat proves to be as reliable as my '87 Accord was I will be very very happy. So far with the first 7000 miles that has proven to be true. And it is lots more fun to drive.
Dave
Storyteller: I have visited this site and I agree with you. The Passat owners there generally rate their cars at 9 & 10 or 1 & 2 (out of 10). There's a wide gap, they either love the car and would recommend it to the world or warn everyone else away from it. It's quite interesting to see the responses. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding VW's poor reputation for dealer service. I, too, would feel better about buying a Passat if I had the assurance that any problems that I might have would be dealt with in a timely and efficient manner without a huge hassle.
Timtran: Thanks so much for the compliment! I try to make wiser decisions in my "old age". LOL
You made some good points about worldwide VW sales in comparison to the competition. I never really thought about it that way.
Dpr5: Another excellent point about reliability history over time. I think our expectations have gotten higher over the years. I know that I have been spoiled by my trouble-free Saturns and Toyotas. Or maybe I've just been lucky. Probably both.
It is interesting that the turbo 4 gets a higher reliabilty rating than the V6. Intuitively, I would have thought the opposite because I'm not familiar with turbo and it somehow seems riskier than a non-turbo engine. However, I like the smooth, quiet, power of a V6 (and my last 3 cars have had V6 enginers) so I guess this is not the best news for me regarding the Passat.
In a perfect world, we would be able to have all (or most) of the things we want in a single vehicle without having to settle for less or make difficult trade-offs. I'd love to have a car with the many virtues of a Passat, the reliability and excellent dealer network of my Toyota and at an affordable price. Am I asking for too much? Right now, it's just a beautiful dream.
However, we still have so many excellent choices out there and the cars are getting better over time. It's a wonderful thing and it generates lots of great discussions like this one.
On the other hand, I have yet to have an enjoyable experience at a Honda dealership. Hondas are very popular here where I live, and my impressions from the dealerships has been that they feel superior and treat customers like stupid cattle. I have never been able to get a Honda salesmen to negotiate a fair deal and I have left the dealerships with a sour taste in my mouth everytime. Is this experience typical for Honda dealers? Probably not, but it is MY impressions. People may feel the same way about VW or Toyota. Impressions about cars, dealerships, and service departments are extremely subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Just my $.02
I've purchased several Hondas from the local dealer [which is family-owned, not corporate, again, for whatever that is worth] and have never had trouble getting a market-correct price. Service has been timely and inexpensive compared to the EU makes I've owned, including VW.
There are only two VW dealers in our immediate area...neither does much dealing, and I have had little direct recent experience with their service departments, though at least one of the two has a reputation locally for being slipshod and expensive to boot.
And my Hondas and Toyotas have simply spent far less time at their respective dealers than any of my VW/Audi products. All that driver-involvement is great stuff when it works...but my "appliance cars" can be and are driven, at least by me, with the same amount of brio I use when I drive my German cars. Guess I just don't get bored as easily as I'm supposed to...
This is going to be such a hard decision to make, but knowing I can get an extended warranty might sway me towards the Passat. I prefer the looks, the large amount of standard features, the safety, and the "fun factor" of the Passat over the Camry/Accord. I think any of those three cars will be an excellent choice to be honest.
Anyway, thanks again for everybody's input. I'll continue to watch this board and maybe I'll be able to offer some advice as a new Passat owner in the near future
But logic and reason have less to do with it than emotion. When I park my Camry, I lock it and walk away without a glance back. When I park my Passat, I lock it and walk away BACKWARDS so I can look at it.
Bitburg, who cares if the salesman doesnt know as much as you. I have come across that as well. Just proves how smart you were to do your homework and learn everything you could about the car(s) you were considering for purchase. I rarely have questions for a car salesman other than price issues.
I have had my Passat since June and had it back at the dealer for its 5,000 service and have been happy with the dealer for both sales and service.
I bought the 1.8t and intend to keep it for 8-10 years and had no qualms about doing so. I have owned 2 Hondas and 1 Toyota and I enjoy the Passat so much more.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
I guess that's why the "Passat Passion" is alive and well in many Passat owners. Even with those people who experience minor problems, many of them still say they love their car in spite of that.
Who knows, maybe one day I'll throw caution to the wind and take the Passat plunge!
VW was near the bottom, 35 out of 42. VW dealerships were ranked just below Cheverolet and just above Daewoo (ouch!). That doesn't mean all VW dealerships suck, just most.
Maybe someone with inside information can clue us in on this. I'd assume it is hard for a car maker to get and hold good dealerships when their product lines are not moving well. VW faded as the Japanese cars began coming on strong in the 80s and 90s, and now that VW has caught fire again with the current Jetta and (especially) Passat it finds itself with hot cars and mediocre dealerships.
If anyone wants to see this survey, it is found on the Car Talk site under "Actual Car Information" and then under "Surveys."
To sum it up quickly: when the brand all but died in the US, no one cared much. Now that they want to be another Mercedes, they care, but the franschise laws that dominate the business in this country give the manufacturer limited choices about moving dealers in the right direction. VW can use both carrots and sticks in the quest to get these people straightened out, but first, it is a lengthy process, and second, in some states you have to prove something close to downright fraud to pull a franchise.
Eventually the various incentives [allocations based on CSI, financial incentives, etc.] available to VW will probably start to make a difference, if they are strong enough and persistent enough...but this is a cautionary tale.
When you start with a high standard from scratch [Lexus, Saturn] and make it part of the franchise agreement, you have a better chance at keeping things consistent. Playing catch-up in dealer service is very, very difficult because the law is all on the side of the dealer...Ford just tried to use a carrot/stick approach on this topic, and immediately got dragged into court by the dealers' association, and is still spending millions on lawyers...all in the name of getting these people to behave as if the customer really matters.
I'm used to the quietness and power of a V6 engine, but test drove a 2002 1.8 turbo automatic. It's power was impressive but not as quiet as the V6. What should I keep in mind in making my decision?
I also enjoyed a 2000 1.8 turbo manual but I sure had trouble shifting and talking on the cell phone. Is there a good hands-free set-up that works well for the Passat? Your comments would be greatly appreciated.