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Comments
I had a 94 S-Blazer and it was my first vehicle with a rear wiper. It had a feature that would let you know when the fluid was becoming low. The rear wiper would always go dry first. It may be a way of prioritizing for safety purposes.
This is a forum about the Triplets or people that are actually thinking of getting one. People that know they don't want one should go to the whiner forum!
By the way, who would want a Jeep Liberty. It's smaller, less powerful, gets worse gas mileage, and Chrysler is known for reliability issues.
--
Doug
Regarding money down...I totally recommend NOT putting anything down. The idea of leasing is to reduce captial expenditures and to maintain all the money your account. The added interest paid is very minimal over the course of the lease. The various risks involved while you are leasing the car just aren't worth the savings. Worst case, you can be left in a situation where that money is gone forever and you're in need of a new vehicle. All that before your lease is completed. Not a pretty place to be in.
Again, no money down, pay the higher payment and draw from the money you would normally put down. Chances are if the lease is a "good one" you won't complete it anyway. If the payments are still too high, then you're on the wrong car.
Another comment was made that list price is not related to monthly payment. Actually it is. List price is where the residual is derived from, thus a higher list, higher residual but also a higher payment. Contrary to what many believe, an inflated or high residually incentivised lease is NOT the best bet for most. Monthly payments are lower, but the options and flexibilities that are the benefits of leasing are then limited. Best off getting a "balanced lease residual & rate"
Regarding lease end..turning in the vehicle is not the goal. That's a protection and limits risk, but ideally, you want to retail or sell the vehicle to another person prior to or at the same time you lease or buy your next vehicle. Most dealers will perform a "courtesy delivery" for a nominal fee of $100-$300.
Next case would be to trade in the vehicle to a dealer. Both of these options should be done if there is equity to be had. It's all negotitable too. Contrary to many who believe otherwise, you can have equity on a lease. typically 6mos prior to the end of the lease is when you should start working on the numbers and plan for the next car. I've never leased for longer than 30 months with nothing but ink and a handshake down and have all but once sold the cars on my own. $3,800 profit is the most made. Only turned in one and that was on a Camery back in 1997....Famous Toyota $200mo. Lease Deal. That's another story.
Regarding taxes....here in Ohio and many states, the state gov't is getting smart and changing leasing laws to their favor as in reality, consumers were making out. They are requiring all taxes be paid up front. You can roll them into the lease and finance them or pay them up front. IMO, I'd roll them in as again, no money up front is the key. You're not going to get it back from the state if you don't complete the contract, which is a bummer, but then, that's a state thing. Laws very by state, but again, I don't believe any state will refund the difference.
Enjoy the new vehicle..whoever started the thread! Hope I helped somewhat.
tim
former dealer
One point you made about List Price/Monthly Payment is wrong as it relates to what were were talking about. In reality, if you have two leases for the same exact terms AND you paid List Price (which I hope no one would do) then yes, it counts. However, on those same cars the residual always remains the same so the List Price makes no difference. What makes the difference in the monthly payments is the Capitalized Cost which is the amount agreed on the vehicle (preferrably somewhere just North of the invoice price) minus any cap cost reduction.
In my case I lease for the following reasons:
Tax write off as I lease it through my company
I NEVER keep a car that I lease.
I HATE trying to sell/trade in a car.
I want to pay the least amount of interest possible.
In reality, I should probably purchase my vehicles outright but I can't stand the process of trading in/selling.
To each his own but I use the website where you put in your lease terms and it grades it and I always get a very good deal on my leases.
Regarding the new TNF, has anyone seen any of these on the road? I really like the uniqueness of this setup. All comments are welcome.
Nothing in my post or advice does the opposite of your goal which is to get the best deal. I simply pointed out many of the overlooked facts on leasing and those facts are mostly safety nets. Please point out any specifics in question as I'd be happy to go into more detail.
"As a former Dealer Kid I understand your points on leasing although I disagree. Your points come from the "Get a person in the car for the least amount of money" goal, while mine, as a consumer, is to get the best deal for my needs."
Regarding my comments on residual value....they were there to clarify the matter for other vs just directly responding to a specific post. Residual value is a % of list price. It's directly related to the payment regardless of what you pay for the vehicle. That value is set by the lending institution for each specific make, model and trim level. It will very from lender to lender. Yes, the purchase price also affects the payment too. That's a given, as is any variable within a lease comparison between two leases that only have one variable different.
Your reasons for leasing are valid ones and while they may not apply to everyone, nothing ever does. That's normal. You may wish to look into putting together or working with a simple excel spreadsheet for leasing. I have several from the simple calcs. to ones that general full contracts. I also understand your dislike for the whole process, but to maximize your benefits or to ideally get the best deal, you should look into alternatives to just turning the vehicle in at the end. It's always there to do should you choose to do that.
tim
No, I haven't seen any TNF TBs in the Detroit area. I've been watching for them.
Frank
I really need help with the front passenger seat belt. After the last use, the belt retracted OK but now it refuses to extend. Is this a common problem? will it require a trip to the dealer. We have a 2002 TB LS with 25K on the odometer.
Thanks for any help.
tidester, host
No, wait a minute. They're 2 Base Camp duffel bags and a Nuptse blanket. Whatever the hell Nuptse means, I don't think it's worth $2000.
As you may have deduced, I'm against all these Eddie Bauer, L.L. Bean, etc. editions of things. What next, the Lexus ES300 Armani edition?
You need to get out of the city. I just paid $1.32 at a BP/Amoco in the Schaumburg area. That's not even counting the 6% off for using their credit card.
By the way, in keeping with the informal requests to keep this medium as a car talk chat forum, I do drive my TB LTZ to Schaumburg.
Frank
Just in case anyone is interested...My Envoy gets between 12 and 20 miles per gallon. 12 when I drive my 5 miles to work and back. 20 when I drive on the highway at 65mph. I didn't buy my Envoy because it was fuel efficient. I bought it because it could tow my boat and handle the Chicago winters.
I've said it many times...This is the best vehicle I've ever owned. 11,000 miles and still loving it!!!
My Envoy XL SLT is the most satisfying ride I have owned. Now that Wisconsin winter has set in my commute from Kenosha to Milwaukee (37 miles one way) is much more pleasant and safe. I've used all trans-axle settings except 4LO and they all engage/disengage seamlessly and are as quiet as 2 wheel drive. Heated seats are turned on at the beginning of each trip and automatic climate control works wonderfully. Windows never been steamed-up either. I usually have the Bose cranked just past mid-way. Can anyone stand it any louder? Never had any distortion or rattled anything loose either. I also enjoy the headlight washers. Salt on roads here is already so thick that you can taste it in the air, nice experience right northerner's! At night you can really tell what a great job the headlight washers perform. Try it, you'll like it. Mileage is slightly better than sticker 15 city/20 highway. I am convinced that on a substantial length highway trip I can achieve at least 20 mpg. Some posts mentioned fuel being spilled on fill-ups. I had some of that but my experience is that when I fill-up at Mobil stations (just got Speed Pass it's great) the nozzle seems to have better shut-off control. Not all Mobil's have Speed Pass and I suspect their nozzle design may be more advanced. No-name gas stations may pump similar/same gas but look at the nozzle design, they are 10 years old.
Chris
The system was developed by WABCO. Check out http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/01-2002/page2.htm. I actually found a web site with illustrations on how to adjust the height. Unfortunately, I cannot find that URL, but you should gain enough information from the above URL to get you started. Couple of pointers to keep in mind:
1. Do not take the rear tires off, as you can reach in behind them and loosen the bolts to make the adjustment.
2. Once you adjust the height, let the ECAS cycle 3 times, which allows it to settle in.
Have fun with it!
Ficuss, how does that gasohol stuff work up there? Tried it for a few tankfulls several years ago, wound up with a gas tank with mud and water in it that totally clogged up the fuel filter. Had to pull the tank flush the system and replace the filter. Then a couple of months later had to replace the fuel pump. Not good. I personally do not look forward to the day ethanol-diluted gas comes back to Texas, but the farm bill that was passed will probably cause that to happen. Poiltics winning out over "good science".
"North Face Edition": sheesh... what would be more suitable would be a JCPenney, Target or WalMart edition! Ridiculous!
Frank
I like my 5/01 Envoy a lot but I have had 8 service calls on it (6000 miles). One call was my fault but the replacement mirror had the $%%@% wandering mirror problem. Sigh. If my dealer wasn't as good to work with and convenient (I always have a loaner car ready) I would be very annoyed.
I still like my Envoy and only regret not buying the Bose upgrade.
Tom
Thanks
Snow, High gas prices etc... This stuff cracks me up. I am so glad I am no longer a chicagoian. I was outside today doing christmas shopping in a short sleeve shirt. Might hit 70 here tomorrow. I'm still a die hard bears and sox fan.
(back on topic)
Oh by the way I am considering an envoy XL. It is between that and an expedition. The engine and ride is really smooth in the XL but the handling leaves a lot to be desired. Any XL or EXT owners out there and how have your rides faired?
Chris
12579241 calibration to correct cold start idle surge and hesitation
12579255 new calibration to improve feel of 1-2 upshift
Frank
Thank You
Steven
At least in my case the cross winds have to be severe for the noise to occur and I say this because I haven't experienced it since. My speed was whatever the prevailing speed limit posted was :') so 70'ish and the cross wind was bad enough that to go straight I had to hold the steering wheel to the left like the truck was out of alignment. Needless to say my arms and shoulders were killing me by the time the high winds were done with me.
Any way back to the noise, in my case the noise wasn't coming from the window, it was emanating from the door frame. While investigating where the noise was coming from, I pressed my fingers to the door frame at the top where the door meets the seal above the window, and my fingers got pinched. With further probing it felt like the door was being pulled open slightly with every little gust of wind. Insert picture of gremlin holding onto the door handle with both hands and trying to pry open the door with it's feet.
The gap was never more than a few millimeters, and it oscillated like a flag fluttering in high winds. It only occurred on the drivers door, and like I said I haven't experienced it since. So maybe it's the same noise, maybe not. Next time it happens to you, push your fingers against the door frame where it meets the seal and see if you have the same experience.
BTW: for those of you who gave suggestions on my bad rear washer, it turned out to be a bad switch. Also, I was having a weird problem with the rear wiper occilating between 'parked' and 'ready to wipe' after running for awhile. Turned out the read door module was on the fritz.
thanks,
-John
1. stretch of highway doing between 50-55 mph in the rain...DIC showing 25.7. This was on a 200 mile round trip. Used 8.1 gallons!
2. I use straight 87 octane SHELL gas..that's the only gas I use
3. In Tennessee I pay around 129.9 per gallon.. at this price for about the last couple of weeks
4. Back roads, very clear to run 55/60mph other than watching out for DEER!!!
Frank
I turned it in tonight.
The whole buypack paperwork process took 15 minutes.
I signed a bunch of stuff, turned my keys and registration over and got my check.
The funny thing is, the dealer said in 23 years they've never processed a buyback (note: I did not buy the bravada from this dealer. Mine was their first AND they were sent paperwork for a second bravada buyback later this week!)
To everyone with problem triplets, good luck in getting them fixed to your satisfaction, and to everyone with problem free or minimum problems, knock on wood and hope that the vehicle lasts you as long as you plan. They're great vehicles, and I will miss mine.
I brought it to the dealer the day we left with that TSB in hand the morning before we left...no luck. They tried the TSB, didn't work. They found the transfer case control module was bad, busted their asses to get a new one the same day, put it in, programmed it (twice), still no luck and time had run out. I do commend the dealer for trying so hard. I just showed up with no appointment and they tried their best but there was not enough time.
So, we got to take our trip with a 2WD. It sucked. If I didn't need a 4WD I would have bought a 2WD! Damn near $40K for a brand new 4WD vehicle so we wouldn't have to worry about these things...our '51 Willey's Jeep hasn't ever had the 4WD go out.... We lucked out weather-wise for the most part (it could have been worse) but it still sucked.
I couldn't hunt in the thing because there was a fair amount of snow on the ground. I drove it offroad some and while it does have very good traction compared to many 2WD vehicles I've used in the past, it simply couldn't get where I was going. After being spoiled in the "YuppyMobile" let me tell you, stuffing three guys and their rifles in the cab of a 20 year old diesel pickup that barely runs, most of the stuff doesn't work, is loud as a freight train, rides like somebody welded the shocks solid, heater doesn't work, etc...sucks. It really sucks.
On the way back, the first 200 miles or so were glare ice on the roads. People were sliding off the road left and right in front of us. There were 5 serious accidents in front of us within the first 100 miles. Going up a steep hill on glare ice, fighting to keep the rear end behind the front end all because the 4WD on you brand new damn truck doesn't work really, REALLY, SUCKED!
For the first time, I really feel like this thing has failed me. All the other problems we've had (wandering mirrors, license plate gasket--on my second one now--rear hatch seal, rear hatch strap, etc, etc, yada, yada yada) have pretty much been annoyances. But this was a major failure.
My dad always distrusted any 4WD where there wasn't an actual physical connection between his dirty, pissed off hand and the gears of the transfer case. After owning a '98 Jimmy with a "push button system" for a few years, that thing was flawless. Never any type of problem with the 4WD. I learned to trust the "electronic" systems.
Well, they have taken a serious step backward in the reliability department with these new rigs. This is the 3rd time my 4WD has acted up on this thing in 1 year. That is not a good sign. At least the first two times the 4WD still worked (even if it was stuck in 4WD when it shouldn't be). This time it didn't simply "act up." It failed. Done. Dead. Caput. And I needed it.
In the past, for something like this to happen a few large METAL parts would need to BREAK. Not so now. A "Module" gets "confused." An "encoder motor" decides not to "encode." There is nothing a shadetree mechanic (or even most small town shops) can do to fix that. They can weld broken metal parts (as could I) but they can't pull "modules" out of their posteriors.
The more I think about it the more infuriated it makes me. But what the hell can I do? Lemon law the thing? We've had it long enough and haven't documented anything I think would actually qualify. Besides, we really love it 99% of the time. Talk about a love-hate relationship. It's the most wonderfull vehicle we have ever owned. But it sucks and can't be trusted.
Anyway, it was back at the dealer today and the found the encoder motor was bad. They'll put a new one in tomorrow. It'll probably work after that. But how will I ever know it will work when I really need it?
Sorry for the rant. I feel better now.
In case you're wondering, we did OK despite having to "rough it."
http://www.JonAadland.com/HuntingPics.html
BTW, I think your best trophy is Gina! ;-)
John
Big bummer!
Nice.
Therein lies the question.. typical of doing any operating system update to a computer, will having the updates done fix problems and make things better, or cause differences that might not necessarily be better or improved? Only thing there I saw that interested me was the 12579255 "improve feel of 1-2 upshift". Wonder what they mean by that.
Our Envoy, full load SLT, 4.10's is now 19 months old and has 16,000 miles on it. We're averaging 14.4 MPG, (based on actually fuel used, not the hugely optimistic DIC). Highway mileage is around 19 with an occasional high in the 21-22 range when winds are favourable, and city gets us about 12 mpg, mostly winter driving as dry roads = stay in the garage, I'm taking the Camaro (o:
It goes in for LOF and a second attempt to get the dealer to correct the:
* wandering mirrors
* clunk from the left rear when crossing irregular/diagonal bumps
* loose and squeeking center console
* rear 12 volt outlet chewing up the seat
* loose valve on the auxilary air pump
* Updated calibration
* check on the rear license housing paint wear.
Cosmetically, I've removed the roof rack, all badging, and the body side mouldings. I'd love to lower it a couple of inches too, but so far have not been able to source a kit for the air suspension )o:
Performance wise it's good. The gears give it a lively feel, and it tows the Camaro on a trailer very well.
We're generally satisfied with the vehicle, but the overall experience, considering price, what the vehicle could have been if GM paid a little more attention to detail and dealer apathy to problems leaves us neutral to negative on the overall experience.