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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier
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The new CTR has a base curb weight of 2618 lb (1190 kg).
I'm curious as to how you define de-contenting. If Honda does go the route you came up with, de-contenting and raising up the price, it wouldn't be the first automakertime, and it would actually help 'em establish themselves as luxury automaker.
The seats are excellent and the car appears to be very well assembled, both inside and out, even if the cabin materials are a slight bit chintzy in places. There is almost no room in the boot with the seats up, and the rear view of the car isn't any better than the front, I'm afraid. In profile, it still looks too much like a mini-minivan for my tastes, but some Type-R cladding would help.
The shifter is very slick, and only a little weird looking. I'd like to put the steering wheel in my Prelude--it's a killer!
The cowl is fairly high, thanks to the Mcstruts, but outward viz is pretty good. The car also sits lower than I expected.
Bring on the Type-R!
Civic Si:
200 HP, 6-speed transmission, 16-inch wheels with performance rubber and brakes, keep EPS, ABS and EBD. Subtract moon-roof and save 20-25 lb. plus some head room.
RSX:
175 HP (to keep redline within range of about 7000 rpm for automatic), 5-speed auto/6-speed manual, 16-inch wheels with all-season rubber, EPS, ABS, EBD
RSX Type-S:
Type-R drive train (220 HP, 6-speed manual), Type-R wheels (17-inch wheels and rubber), Type-R brakes, EPS, VGR, ABS, EBD and optional premium package (leather/moonroof/Bose system etc. to keep base price down).
In case you are wondering,
EPS: Electric Power Steering. Other than no drain of power from engine and slightly improved fuel efficiency (2%, yeah right), the neatest things it offers is ability to tune the steering to personal preference. Honda has offered it from day one on NSX, and later joined by S2000, now the Type-Rs, Civic Si, Insight and Civic Hybrid have it. Eliminates the conventional power steering pump, and is considered safer against sudden loss of power steering.
EBD: Electronic Brake Distribution. It has been a standard feature in several Japanese and European Hondas, and I believe Civic Si (and Civic Hybrid) are the first to have it here in America.
VGR: Variable Gear Ratio. One of the several new things Honda developed in 1997 becoming the first automaker to offer it in production cars. The new Type-Rs have it. It varies the steering gear ratio depending on need (speed and turn). I am not sure if it is the same as the so-called VGS system offered in S2000 Type-V (Japan only), which was the first production car to have such a setup.
Thanks and I hope to here from you soon.
I got mud flaps, extra fabric and paint protectant, 4 floor mats and rear wheel well protectors (sorry for using the wrong language, but I forgot what they're called) for 21k out the door.
I love the styling. It was very important for me to have good visibility, as I'm used to driving that old Civic, which is dang near like having no obstructions at ALL. The SI kicks in more than just the ability to see well... the comfort is sublime and when cornering, it feels like nothing could lift those tires off the ground.
I, for one, love it!
Sandi, please keep us posted on how the car breaks-in.
I stopped by the Honda dealership in Santa Monica yesterday and the salesman there said that they had one Si [silver]... but it was in the back getting leather put in it and the windows tinted. Two thoughts crossed my mind upon hearing this:
1- everybody has been raving about the seats in this car... why the heck are they putting leather on them??
2- this thing is going to go for well over MSRP!
Just an aside about these dealer enhancements: I stopped at a VW dealership later that day, and they had a Passat with an XM radio head unit and charging $995 for it!! This head unit only retails for $300, then maybe another $150 for install.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
I suggest Sandis_si wait and see if he really gets the car in a week. Psych yourself up for possible delaying tactics.
If they're like most dealers, and if another buyer walks in and is Si-crazy enough to offer even more, I'm suspect 'your' car could suddenly not be available (assuming they're really getting one in a week).
This happened when I bought a Honda years ago... also in high demand at that time. I made the deal, I said it was good for the specific car they showed me... next day, "Oh, we made a mistake... that one had been sold... we're really sorry"... didn't get a car for another eight weeks or so.
Sandis_si.... hope you get your car and that you enjoy it enough to justify the price. Me, I'm ambivalent: even though it's not among the hottest hatches, it suits me well (I want sportier, but don't need 200 hp; also want a hatch). But if my dealer is playing games and the deal falls through, I won't be upset... who would mind missing out on paying $1000 over MSPR for an already overpriced hatch? We'll see.
Good luck.......
Good ol' law of supply and demand! Capitalism rules!
Anybody on this post acutally taken possession of an Si yet?
Yes, capitalism rules... more demand for Civic Si and less demand for Infiniti G20 means you probably got a great deal on the G20... but there's an Infiniti dealer in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario... but NO INFINITI dealer in Ann Arbor, Michigan (city of many import luxury models). Canadian market is different.
Infiniti G20 is more refinement than sport...
Civic Si is the other way around.
Why buy an Si? Ohhh... because Civic EX is so boooooring after the redesign.
Boy, for a Honda-Acura partisan, I'm a little loose cannon! (LOL baby!) ... Honda and Acura dealers here have a big audience, so they're probably tougher to deal with. I got my Integra on the East Side of the Detroit Metro area... less demand there.
Si $19,540
leather $ 1,300
tint $ 400
*Dealer Mark-up* $2,000
Basically, over $23K!! Ridiculous, I think. On a positive note, the steering wheel, seats and interior ergonomics were awesome!
Incidentally, I had a '99 Si which I paid 2.5% over invoice (total of $16,500)... unfortunately, this car was stolen from me this past fall (it got totally stripped). For me, this new Si (especially since it is slower than the '99) isn't worth more than $17,500 to me (credit going to the nice seats and steering wheel)... which probably means, I won't own one.
This dealership also had a $10,000 mark-up on a S2000!!!! What the heck?? I could understand this when the car first came out and dot-com money was running amuck... but now? Who are these people paying over MSRP by leaps and bounds?
Incidentally, where is the Invoice price for this car? Edmunds still doesn't have it listed.... are manufacturers no longer releasing this data?
I've seen some discounted last year 200 hp Preludes here in C. Texas that haven't been going for much more than 21k, so....
The larger picturer is that manufacturers have to North Americans more options with high performance cars - not just economy cars with more body cladding. This is already evident in the Subaru WRX which is now being countered by the Lancer Evo VII.
Anyway I was looking at the 2002 SI and it was my lead candidate after I had given up on the Sentra SE-R. I eventually ended up with a VW GTI 1.8t and looking back I'm glad I did.
However, if someone needs a five sits in a car thats a different story.
Tom
At the same time (I believe it was the same publication) said that the CTR is the best looking vehicle Honda has put out since the S2000.
Kind of funny I thought... and then later, I realized that I think they are on to something!
MSRP*******invoice
$19,000*****$17,801.80 2002 Silver Civic Si
$229********$182.10 Side Molding
$124********$76.18 Sunroof visor
$99*********$51.85 Cargo Tray
$99*********$66.74 Floor mats
$79*********$40.80 splash guards
$79*********$40.00 wheel locks
$440********$440 destination fee
you trying to negotiate with dealers to buy a SI--as a journalist I get official info from Honda
USA and they say some 12000 of the SI's are being
brought in--so if any dealer hits you with that
nonsense about only 5000 coming in, just ignore them and keep negotiating...
and good luck!
That new shifter is interesting but where do you rest your arm between shifts in traffic? The car is almost 2800 lbs now. In person it looks like a Mini-Minivan. The seats look ready for the race track but not a long trip. Looks like there is less room in the hatch area now. I just think they priced them a bit high for this area (NY). There are many other choices now that are just as fun and almost as fast. My new Elantra GT is 8.0 seconds to 60 and the Si is 7.6. $14.5K vs $19K. It was a no-brainer. I wish Honda luck.
But the new Si isn't what my OLD Si is. My '93 was a bargain ($12,500) for a sporty car with a nice moonroof, a cammy v-tech engine and a tight suspension. The new Si is more refined, but it's also pricey! $19.5k for a Civic Si with mini-van-bland styling and mediocre performance? I think Honda might be missing the mark with this car. Look at the SVT Focus - that's what the old Si was - a reliable driver's car that is a real value. The new Si leaves me a little flat.
Oh well, I think I'm going to but a Protege5 instead. Not as powerful, but it's a good handler with enough power to raise a smile and costs about $2,000 less than the Si. And it looks nice, too.
-jim