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18. Chevy Cavalier
Pros: Good power
Cons: Cheap and uncomfortable interior, noisy, harsh ride, terrible crash scores, short warranty
Verdict: Not a bad small car--for 1994
17. Pontiac Sunfire - See Chevy Cavalier (tiebreaker based on styling)
16. Kia Rio
Pros: Low price, good driving position, great warranty
Cons: Rough and inefficient drivetrain, lack of interior space
Verdict: Decent city or school car, but sorely needs a redesign
15. Dodge Neon
Pros: Roomy back seat, long powertrain warranty
Cons: Noisy, stiff ride, cheap interior bits
Verdict: After ten years, DC still hasn't figured out how to put power controls on all four windows.
14. Hyundai Accent
Pros: Low price, good driving position, decent ride, great warranty
Cons: Rough and inefficient drivetrain, lack of interior space
Verdict: There's much better cars for not much more money
13. Nissan Sentra
Pros: Decent power, nice interior trim, PZEV engine available
Cons: Cramped rear seat, sloppy handling, subpar braking
Verdict: Not bad when introduced, but has been surpassed by newer models
12. Saturn ION
Pros: Compliant ride, rustproof panels, good reliability
Cons: Noisy engine, cramped and uncomfortable interior
Verdict: Good platform but unsatisfying overall package
11. Chevy Aveo (I've sat in it but not driven it)
Pros: Low price, roomy interior, smooth ride (reported)
Cons: Low power, short warranty compared to competitors
Verdict: A nice little Korean car but without the warranty advantage of other Korean cars
10. Mitsubishi Lancer
Pros: Good interior room, good crash scores, long powertrain warranty
Cons: Noisy, relatively low fuel economy
Verdict: A capable small car that doesn't stand out against tough competition
9. Suzuki Forenza
Pros: Feature content, interior room and comfort, comfortable ride, long powertrain warranty
Cons: No SABs available, rough powertrain, low fuel economy for the class
Verdict: A pleasant car but lacking in safety and refinement
8. Suzuki Aerio
Pros: Roomy interior, good power, decent handling, long powertrain warranty, good crash scores
Cons: Stiff ride, rear seats not too comfortable, some cheap interior bits
Verdict: A lot of car for the money, but not as refined as some competitors
7. Toyota ECHO
Pros: Great fuel economy, good interior room for its size, good performance and handling, Toyota quality and reliability
Cons: Some cheap interior bits, pricey when loaded up
Verdict: A fine but unappreciated small car, but a questionable value when optioned out
6. Toyota Corolla
Pros: Smooth ride and powertrain, great fuel economy, good power, roomy interior, good crash scores, Toyota quality and reliability
Cons: Uncomfortable driving position, cheap-feeling HVAC controls, floaty ride
Verdict: One of the best small cars, but desparately needs a telescoping steering wheel
5. Kia Spectra
Pros: Smooth and compliant ride, quiet, roomy interior with quality feel, good power, standard safety features, great warranty
Cons: Unknown reliability and crash scores, doesn't match the best in fuel economy
Verdict: If it holds up, it will join the top cars in the class
4. Ford Focus
Pros: Great ride and handling, PZEV engine available, good interior room, good powertrain warranty, good crash scores
Cons: Uncomfortable drivers seat, poor but improving reliability history
Verdict: One of the best small cars has gotten better with a '05 refresh and improved quality
3. Honda Civic
Pros: Great fuel economy, good blend of ride and handling, great shifter, roomy and comfortable interior, good crash scores, Honda quality and reliability
Cons: Low feature content, short warranty, somewhat noisy and underpowered compared to competitors
Verdict: No major weak spots and a lot of plusses--but Honda quality comes at a price
2. Mazda3
Pros: Great handling and power, fine shifter, quality feel, PZEV engine available, roomy interior, good driving position
Cons: Not much feature content, crash scores not great for a new design
Verdict: Best in class, if you don't mind a dearth of features
1. Hyundai Elantra
Pros: Good balance of ride and handling, roomy interior, great driving position, high feature content, good reliability, great warranty
Cons: Doesn't match the best in fuel economy
Verdict: If you can find a better car for under $15,000 MSRP, buy it!
Less than flattering article on the Aveo: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-05-20-aveo_x.htm.
~alpha
Yes, a comfortable driving position is a key decision criterion for me. If I can't be comfortable behind the wheel of my car, why would I want to drive it?
I did note that I haven't driven the Aveo (but have driven all the others, including the Sentra 1.8) so my ranking of the Aveo is tentative until I can find one to drive. Three visits to my local dealer to drive a 5-speed Aveo have been futile.
As I recall, you don't own a Sentra with the 1.8 engine, but the more powerful model, right? I didn't consider that here because those list for over $15k. All the cars I compared have an MSRP under $15k w/o destination--which is how Edmunds.com determines its price categories. If we don't consider MSRP here, we'll be comparing Spec-Vs to Rios.
Another big criterion for me is back-seat room, as I sometimes need to put three people back there. So Sentra and other cars with skimpy back seat room lost points.
The Corolla has a pretty nice interior, as far as materials quality, but it's pretty bland IMO and the HVAC controls do feel cheap to me, sorry. They're not nearly as smooth as the Civic's or even those on low-buck cars like the Forenza or Elantra. I only mention it because everyone always raves about the "smooth Toyota switchgear." Well, on the Corolla they are cutting some corners I think.
You're pretty good about picking apart my opinions--how about posting your own rankings and rationale?
My top concerns are good long term reliability and low maintenace cost, attractiveness to my eye, and price.
NOT APPEALING:
Dodge Neon-I need a car that has a good chance to get me to 120K miles in 5 years with no major repairs. This is not the one.
Saturn ION-Horrid styling. Center gauges suck. As bad as the seats are in my Saturn, this car is not much better. As soon as these debuted I thought to myself, this car will have big incentives within a year. I was right.
Chevy Aveo-Ugly. And too small. I had a Festiva ten years ago, dont want to go that small again. And its based on a Daewoo design -'nuff said for reliability.
Mitsubishi Lancer-Ugly inside and out. Overpriced.
Suzuki Forenza-Attractive in and out, great price, but it's a Daewoo design....
Suzuki Aerio-Seriously ugly. Digital dash is nasty. Overpriced.
Toyota ECHO-Butt ugly. Reveiews are not kind to this cars driving dynamics. High price.
Kia Spectra-4 door hatch, my preferred body style. Price is reasonable. But its a Kia, reliability is questionable.
Toyota Corolla-High priced new and used, otherwise appealing.
Honda Civic-High priced new and used, otherwise un-appealing. I just dont get what is so great about this car. Interior looked below-average to me at the car show. Styling is dull and anonymous. It places midpack in comparisons at C&D, the only mag whose opinions I generally trust. Yet some people think its still the greatest thing ever. I like Honda, 15 years ago I owned a CRX. 10 years ago a Civic was very appealing when I was shopping for a small car....but time marches on, folks, and this car has not.
BREIFLY CONSIDERED:
Kia Rio-The funky Cinco wagon has a certain appeal at times, but its the most expensive model and my wife would kill me if I got one of these.
Chevy Cavalier-My wife has one and I dont want two of the same kind of car in the garage. The seats are not that bad-they are much better than my Saturn. Clunky suspension, weak and noisy engine on acceleration are the worst points. Good MPG, attractive styling, smooth highway ride. Not as bad a car as many people say.
Pontiac Sunfire-The front end styling is gross. It was an attractive little car when it first came out but they really screwed it up with this latest nose job. And everyone Ive known who has owned a Pontiac has not had good luck with them.
Mazda3-Was not available last year. But I considered the Protege. Attractive inside and out and reliable, but out of my budget.
Nissan Sentra-Unappealing styling, but I could live with it. Good reputaion. But, high priced new and used.
SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED:
Hyundai Accent-The hatch is a big plus for me but would like a 5 door model. Good seat comfort. But I had owned an Excel in 1991 and didnt want another Hyundai. Sometimes wish I had got one, as I try seat cushions and covers in my Saturn to tame the massively uncomfortable drivers seat.
Hyundai Elantra-Good equipment at a good price. I could have got a brand new 5 speed for under 10K last spring. But this car and the Accent have timing belts. Wish they made a GL hatchback without all the extra cost stuff that's on the GT....or an L sedan with only AC and manual windows/locks and no radio for us cheapskates.
Ford Focus-My top pick as far the car itself. Has everything I want and need-appealing styling in and out, decent seat comfort, fun to drive, smooth ride, crisp handling, 4 door hatch model-and many cars on the dealers lots. But even with 3K rebates last spring, Id have to get a six year loan...and the damn reputation would follow it along like a welded-on trailer. I had good luck with another recall-plagued Ford product, a Mercury Mystique, but decided that the risk was not worth the investment.
I had to reduce my budget to the 7-8K range, and ended up buying a used 2002 Saturn SL. Lousy seats and a clunky shifter are the worst features. Sprightly engine, flat cornering and great MPG are pluses.
I had terrible luck with my Mystique but I did enjoy driving it (when it wasn't in the dealer's service bay). I might even consider a Focus next time if the quality keeps improving and the driver's seat is changed--just something about it that doesn't fit me well. But by then there will be a new Elantra, Civic, Sentra, Accent, Rio, Neon, and the Cobalt to offer competition.
I drove the Aerio upon its introduction, when it was 140hp (before the bumps to the 145 2.0L, and subsequent larger displacement 155 hp engine). It felt like a heavier, stronger ECHO with a darker Fisher Price interior, and worse MPG. The ECHO is a great car, IF your only consideration is highway MPG. I was on a road trip (already mentioned) one time and the car was seriously disturbed by wind, which is a rather disconcerting feeling. Space utilization in both the Aerio and ECHO is impressive though.
The Focus ZX5 2.3L that I drove impressed me. However, like you, I did not like the drivers seat. Handling was top notch, and the ride felt absorbent. Unfortunately, Ford seriously messed with the functional yet stylish dash/center stack this year, and the radio especially is very ugly to behold, and imparts a far less youthful feel. Sytling is subjective though, and overall, with continuous improvements in quality, this is an impressive design. However, my test ZX5, which was FAR from loaded, stickered above $16,000, so Im not sure if this impression means much. Engine is a big deal to me, and I dont think Id be happy with the Focus' guttural 2.0Ls.
The only Civic that competes in the $15,000 category is the DX or DX VP. No power amenities, a paucity of torque, no rear stabilizer bar, ABS not even an option, lacks the trick instrumentation of LX and EX models. No thanks, next. Phenomenal back seat room, ergonomics, and fuel economy, though. Corolla suffers similarly but the CE trim line includes a rear stabilizer bar, 15 inch wheels and tires, tach, front and rear cupholders, and a few other niceties that the Civic DX VP lacks. Additionally, the Corolla will outsprint the Civic DX/VP/LX by a full second to 60 while offering the same excellent fuel economy and rear seat room. While I agree that the driving position isnt the best, its not a complete deterrant for me, and I'd easily pick the Corolla over the Civic because its a better overall package at this price.
In reality, the Mazda 3i is pretty unappealing in this price category. It is far and away the best car, but it is NOT remotely a complete package at $15,000.
The ION and Lancer have ZERO competitive advantages compared to anything in this class, but between the two, Id probably pick the Mitsu for the free maintenance and longer warranty.
The Rio is not a contender. Why buy it when the Accent is available with standard side impact airbags, a nicer interior, and a newer (though still kinda old) design? Both have poop fuel economy for the size, though.
So, that leaves the Spectra and Elantra. My dime would likely be put on the Spectra, for its side and curtain airbags, and to me, more appealing interior. The Elantras seats arent firm, they're hard, and the Spectra's felt nicer. Since they share powertrains, both are strong but not exactly fuel efficient. The Elantras "Poor" rating from the IIHS is a pretty big negative, but allegedly, the design/crashworthiness has been changed for 2004, so we'll keep our fingers crossed. Airbags that fire late and seat tracks that dont lock arent things a mfr. should be lauded for (especially when it takes that mfr years to attempt a remedy), but the standard side head protection airbags are HUGE! Styling, as always, is subjective, and I dont like the Spectra's [non-permissible content removed]. But I do like the front end fascia, very clean, without being cute. Both are well equipped at the price, the Hyundai being the better deal on the surface, but the Kia is newer. Its kind of nice to have a car that isnt scheduled for a redesign in one calendar year.
My vote in the sub $15,000 class? The Kia Spectra, by a nose over the Hyundai Elantra. To be honest though, I would try my hardest to save/invest for a longer period, just to have more choices by rising to the next price bracket in the small/compact class.
[My vote in the $15,000 to $20,000 class? The Mazda 3i or s, in a decided margin over the neck-and-neck 2005 Corolla LE (love the VSC option as well as the Optitron instrumentation!) and Civic EX. Dont get me wrong, I love my Sentra 2.5, but many things have changed in the market in the 18 months since I purchased it.]
~alpha
PS- You're right, I havent driven the Spectra yet. But, since its essentially an Elantra- Im confident that it will have the same fairly refined manners, though I'd trade some of the Elantras ride quality for a bit more roll control.
As for Spectra over Elantra, I see your points. The main reasons I put the Elantra ahead of the Spectra are: 1) driving position (Kia changed the seat height adjuster on the new Spectra from a dual-knob setup to a single lever, not nearly as adjustable), 2) more equipment on the Elantra GT vs. the Spectra EX for about the same money, 3) unknown reliability on the Spectra (although I expect it will be improved over the old Spectra, given Kia's improvements lately). The Spectra does have the side curtains, but the side crash scores on the Elantra are quite good. And as you mentioned, the IIHS will be testing the '04 Elantra with its redesigned seat track, so I expect the frontal offset score to be much improved. Hyundai has too much at stake (risking having the only compact car with a "Poor" frontal offset crash test score) not to have fixed this problem.
As for lack of equipment, I did take that into account in my ratings. That's why the Mazda3i was second to the Elantra. If we went up to $20k, I'd put the Mazda3s first, and the Civic would be higher in EX trim also--but still behind the Mazda3s, and a nudge behind the Elantra GT. Recall that Edmunds.com rated the Civic EX first in their comparo of small sedans, with the Elantra GLS second. So I'm not the only one who thinks the Civic and Elantra are at the top of the class of small cars. Later, they named the Mazda3 the "Most Wanted" under $15k--as long as you don't mind rolling down your own windows, manually adjusting mirrors, and running around the car to unlock the doors for your other riders. ;-)
As for the "sloppy" handling of the Sentra, that's based on multiple drives of the current design, but in 1.8/GXE trim. It just did not have the crisp handling of cars like the Mazda3, Civic, Focus, Spectra, or the Elantra GT. I felt like I was driving a compact Buick when I drove the Sentras. That surprised me because my '92 and '97 Sentras handled much better. I just didn't enjoy driving the current Sentra, and the cramped back seat was the knockout. Maybe it's a much different car with the bigger engine. Is the suspension any different on the 2.5 Sentras?
On the Corolla:
2005 Corolla LE: $15405 (manual trans, incl. destination).
2005 Corolla S: $15240 (manual trans, incl. destination).
You said "So I agree they are a lot more car than the Civic DX/VP/HX, and if it were not for the seating position problem, which I find a killer issue, I would have put the Corolla higher, at least third. I see no reason to spend $15k on a car that I hate driving."
-Fair enough, I certainly agree that it makes no sense to drive a car in which one cannot be comfortable. For those that can, (usually shorter-legged people) 3rd is a good finish in this crowd!
On the Sentra:
Truth be told, I do not know if the Sentra 2.5 has a different suspension than the 1.8/GXE. However, my car handles significantly better than my aunt's 1995 model.
Here's what Edmunds had to say about the Sentra in its most recent test- of a 2.5LE
Conclusion:
"Surprising power and handling, but its age shows when stacked against newer competitors."
Also- I have a question for you- how is the Elantra GT's suspension different from the GLS? I wasnt aware there was substance to the GT designation, I just thought it was a trim differentiation, of the same ilk as the Corolla S.
~alpha
PS- With respect to the Edmunds.com comparo from which I quoted, I will be honest and tell you that the Sentra 2.5LE finished higher than it deserved. The Corolla was short-changed, the Civic FAR over-rated in comparison, and the Elantra probably should have won.
And backy, seriously check out how ugly they made the Focus center stack for 2005! EW!
The Elantra GT has a "sport suspension" that includes gas-filled shocks and springs that are about 10 percent stiffer than on the GLS, and larger anti-roll bars--24 mm (versus 23) in front, and 14 mm (versus 12) in back. The GT also has alloys, which may or may not help. These little enhancements add up to "a taut, responsive feel that doesn’t make for a harsh ride but is most appreciated on twisty roads or your favorite cloverleaf interchange" (from a Road & Track review).
Re the Focus' new dashboard, it is a lot more boring than the old design but also cleaner. Apparently Ford figured they would be better off with more buttoned-down exterior and interior styling to appeal to a wider range of potential buyers.
They offer a Focus, too, but I rented one last year and drove it around North Carolina on all types of roads. The standard engine is woefully underpowered. It feels peppy in town - lots of acceleration - but it is not the engine to have if you want to pass someone in the 50-75MPH range. If I only had 10-15k to invest in a car I would certainly look around for last year's compact rather than a new subcompact. I'd also stay away from an Aveo. Chevy badged foreign cars come and go but Toyota, Hyundai, and Nissan will be around for a long time and the warranty on the Aveo is lousy compared to a Hyundai.
~alpha
the zx cars appeal to a younger customer. i just don't think the volume is there overall, for two designs.
My first job was cleaning and maintaining rental cars. I have news for you, as a car mechanic Ive seen how mercilessily people treat their OWN cars which is often incredibly bad. I dont see any difference at all, on average. MostlyI wouldnt buy a rental because they want too much for it, at least IME.
At least you know that the oil has been changed a few times. I would wonder more about the late model one owner inexpensive car. Why is it on the market and what kind of care has it had? If it is not for sale by a private owner you may never know. And maybe that off-lease creampuff was driven by the owners teenagers. If you know any upper middle class parents you know that many of them will get brand new cars for their kids.
Avoiding a former rental isnt as obvious as not going to Budget or Hertz to buy your late model used car. You might not know if you dont do some research. Virtually every car I looked at last year turned up as a "fleet" vehicle on Carfax, even several with a 5 speed which surprised me. These can be former rentals. My 99 Mystique was such a car. I bought it at a L-M dealer, Carfax said leased fleet vehicle, but I found a small rental car sticker sticker on the rear door window.
I think there are great bargains in one and two year old cars at all ends of the market. I got that Mystique for 60% of the new sticker price. I have made similar deals for all the late model cars I have bought over the years. If I had the money Id buy new all the time but I do not so I look for the bargain, and getting a car with a year or two of warranty is great. I think the "certified" stuff is mostly worthless unless the car is out of warranty, and even then it isnt worth the extra money the dealer tends to charge for it.
~alpha
Any used car should be inspected by the dealer and worn tires or brakes should be replaced, or at least noted. Most used cars I have looked at have come with an inspection sheet telling me the % wear on the tires and brake pads. The Cavalier my wife bought last year was certified, but we didnt even get the sheet listing what was inspected. I wasnt on top of this purchase as I normally am or I would have asked for it. Also we had to pay extra to have the mfg warranty extended to 50K.
Maybe on a 26K Cadillac there is more margin for the dealer to install new tires and bump up the warranty. Remember this is a discussion of low end sedans and the profit margins are probably much slimmer. I wouldn't normally consider a one year old car with 30K miles, but if I did I might wonder about the need to replace the original Michelins so soon.
Even with a carfax, you still dont know how the previous owner treated the car. With a manufacturer's certified used program, you have basically an insurance policy of a very attractive extended warranty (some more than others- Honda's is particularly outstanding given the cars very mediocre new warranty, for example), and the manufacturer's certification that the car was in great shape to begin with- having passed a thorough inspection. The mfr. isnt going to certify a car that it feels is substantially likely to need repairs, after all. Additionally, many certified used programs offer roadside support for the life of the warranty, and I belive that most are transferrable to subsequent owners, easing any further resale.
To me, a 3 year certified used car (under a good program) with a clean carfax is just as safe as buying a new car, and backy's plan to get a certified used BMW sounds like a great one, especially given the so-so repair record of the make.
Im not saying its perfect for everyone, but to me- it seems the SAFEST way to save a bunch of cash vs. buying new.
~alpha
15. Dodge Neon - loud unrefined engine, ultra cheap looking interior, no power rear windows, not very comfortable though roomy, unfinished look to the rear, poor rear visibility. in desperate need of a redesign.
14. Saturn Ion - can't stand the styling inside and out. seats are uncomfortable and the car isn't as roomy as it should be. acceleration is also a disappointment with the auto. expensive when features are added. Ride is good; handling, engine, and mileage are competent.
13. Kia Rio - good cheap basic transportation with great warranty. comfortable driver's seat. doors are tinny sounding, small back seat, low fuel economy, not much style, adequate acceleration though loud when pushed. standard 14" tires.
12. Toyota Echo - Much better looking on the outside then previously but still a tad odd. Don't like the interior style, the fabrics are cheap, door sounds too tinny to be a Toyota. spunky engine with great fuel economy. poor stability on the highway.
11. Suzuki Aerio - funky looks on the sedan. hatch looks much better. room and comfort is top notch. good stereo. good crash test scores though poor bumpers. cheap interior pieces with way too odd styling (about to be fixed for 05). tinny doors that buzz constantly. so-so handling and the ride is a tad too firm. the 145 horse 2.0 feels slower then the 135 horse Elantra and is also a very rough feeling slow to rev engine (haven't driven the 2.3 but I doubt much changed). low mileage. poor paint quality and fit and finish.
10. Chevy Aveo - great looking inside and out. comfortable. expensive msrp. too short warranty. haven't driven one so not sure how well it drives. fuel economy is competent but low for size. unknown reliability. this car has the potential of moving up the scale.
9. Suzuki Forenza - attractive styling inside and out. great fit and finish. shimmering paint. great price. good warranty. dismal engine and fuel economy. unknown reliability. put a better engine in it and this car has potential.
8. Chevy Cavalier - exterior styling still looks good on the coupe after all these years. reasonably roomy with a big car feel. strong engine. cheap though semiattractive and ergonomic interior. uncomfortable front seats. cheap tires squeal at every turn and handling is just ok. low fit and finish and poor crash ratings. solid reliable powertrain. smooth responsive automatic and comfortable ride. competent mileage. big rebates and cheap financing.
7. Hyundai Accent - great basic transportation. attractive styling. great warranty. comfortable seats. peppy though loud when pushed. better mileage then the Rio but still too low. tires are too small. Comfy ride and adequate handling. solid sound to the doors and relatively quiet on the highway. reasonably roomy considering size. side airbags standard, along with good safety scores. good reliability. rebates.
6. Honda Civic - roomy, comfortable, great fuel economy and crash test scores, good reliability and resale, better handling then Corolla but a busier ride. buzzy sounding on the highway, low power, low warranty, low feature content, high prices, bland styling.
5. Ford Focus - great handling, fun to drive, comfortable ride, great power in pzev form, pleasing style inside and out, roomy, competent mileage, good crash ratings, big rebates. uncomfortable driver's seat, questionable reliability, build quality and resale.
3.(tie) Toyota Corolla - roomy, comfortable seats and ride, great mileage power and crash scores, good resale and reliability, attractive mini-Lexus interior style, better warranty then Honda. funky driving position, loud engine, subpar handling, bland exterior, expensive and low feature content.
3.(tie) Mitsubishi Lancer - roomy, good looking inside and out, comfortable yet composed ride, good handling, good reliability, solid expensive sounding thunk to doors and excellent fit and finish, quiet at idle and on highway, good crash ratings, rebates. low resale, buzzy sound quality when floored, not the best mileage, a few cheap interior pieces, driver's seat a little uncomfortable.
3.(tie) Mazda3 - sporty, great handling, attractive on the outside, audilike on the inside, neat options, powerful engines. high price, low standard equipment, firm ride.
1. Hyundai Elantra/Kia Spectra - great duo. awesome price, standard feature list, warranty; good reliability on the Elantra, pleasant styling inside and out, great fit and finish, good power and ride, roomy, comfy seats, competent mileage. mixed crash results, not the best handler.
As I pointed out, this was not true for the Cavalier we bought, thats not what I found for most cars I have looked at, and so it is not always the case.
If there is paperwork that the car is certified by a factory backed program and includes the things you are describing, thats great. But I would expect a higher asking price on a certified car, and if I am buying a car that is still under warranty I would have to judge whether it is worth the extra cost.
"Certified" means whatever the dealer wants it to mean. It could mean what you are talking about. It could also mean they want to ask a higher price while doing nothing more than the normal inspection-if that. This is the meaning I have seen more often than not.
Here is a real-life example. Last year my sister purchased a 1999 Toyota 4runner, supposedly a "cerified" vehicle, from a Toyota dealer in Cincinnati. This thing cost 18K, so I was glad that it was ceritified when she told me about it. I thought that would be a good thing since she has normally only bought new cars. Then she found that the dealer had lied, and had told people that used cars were ceritfied and had not actually done anything to certify them. After much complaining and, I believe, threatening legal action, she got the certification along with some no-cost maintenance that was needed. Even so she had to have a brake job this spring and pay for it out of her pocket.
Im sure that this was a not a typical occurance, so dont flame me for knocking all dealers, but it shows that "certified" can mean anything the dealer says.
Brochures are available from the manufactures who provide certification programs, about their certification programs, that detail exactly what should have been done. My guess is that your sisters 4Runner was not mfr. certified, because it would be pretty tough for a dealer to pull off a claim about Toyota's certification process without paperwork presented to her, detailing the checkpoints, car specs, warranty etc. And the saying still holds-"Caveat Emptor".
~alpha
Should prove interesting. CR already had a preview of the Mazda 3 in an earlier issue, and it looks like its poised to take over as the class leader. Formerly, this had been the Ford Focus, after its reliability improved to average, and before that, the Civic.
~alpha
Im not sure why you say the Accent didnt fare well- in that particular issue (March 2003), the Accent acheived the second highest rating of the vehicles tested- just below the Aerio, but well above the Neon, the brand new ION, and the aged Cavalier. In fact, CR cited that the Accent was a good deal, fine basic transportation given its higher score than the more expensive models. If you were to separate out the Accent, you'd be left with a uselessly small category- the Accent, Rio, Aveo sedan, and the on-its-way-out ECHO. EVEN here, in recent posts, said cars have been included by many in their personal overall rankings, so why shouldnt CR do the same?
About the Scions- my biggest peeve are the tiny engines that are used, which do a good job of offering efficiency, but what seems to be a paucity of power. However, MT, in this months issue, scooted the xA manual to 60 in just 8.8 seconds, which surprised me. Id really like to see a Car and Driver "street start" on an xA 5M, which would give a better idea of what consumers like you and I could achieve in everyday driving.
~alpha
CR groups cars by type. For example, they compare 4-cylinder family cars together and 6-cylinder family cars together, as in the May issue. I just think they could do a better job separating the very small cars from the compacts that can sell for $5000+ more.
Also, is Mitsubishi the only one of these who does not support the Lemon Law?
Thanks.
I will keep checking here too to see what anyone else has to say in response to my question. Thanks.
That being said, I would stay away from Mitsubishi as at this point it is questionable whether they will stay in business. They have some real problems.
Focus has the advantage at this point of quite a few years production and a lot of attention to correcting initial defects. I wouldn't hesitate to consider one if I was in the market.
The rebate on the Focus is most likely on leftover 2004s. The 2005s are out, and are not as heavily discounted. If youre really strongly in favor of that car, you might want to act sooner than later.
~alpha
I was wondering if any of the other low end sedans discussed here have the same steering wheel shimmy issue. I'm going to guess the answer is no for some (or most) of them. So, what is it about the Elantra that makes it more sensitive to this than the competition?
I hope Hyundai fixes this for the 06 Elantra -- and I also hope that the new Spectra (based on the Elantra) doesn't have the issue either.
Is it true that Ford cars take a long time to warm up or they will not perform? I read on another board where one owner commented on that.