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GM ENGINE KNOCK
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Comments
You can brag about how perfect your Chebbies are, but it doesn't help the present poster. Babs - Didn't you have to have your intermediate steering shaft replaced on your "perfect chev"? Didn't you have your rear rotors turned? Man, Chev owners sure have low expectations!
Tom
Temps have been in the 80s the past few days. Smooth as silk
I think that many of these unfortunate GM lemon owners could be a wealth of information to this topic. The sad thing is that they choose to stir things up Toyota topics instead.
That being said, my father-in-law bought a knocker. Certain Chev lemon owners do not want to help. What should he do?
Tom
Buying a truck should not be a gamble. Why should someone have to "bet"? If the dealer told him when he bought the truck that the truck will sound someone is hammering on the block but the he "bet" it wouldn't be a problem, do you think that he would have bought it?
The saddest part is that when he tries to rid himself of his lemon, he will get chump change for it. Who would buy a truck that sounds like it is about to explode? If he tells the prospective buyer that he "bets" that it isn't a problem, do you think the buyer will go for it?
GM has backed up the "BET" with a 100,000 mile warranty.
What's the gamble?
You get a great truck that will perform with anything in it's class and out perform many that CLAIM they are in it's class. You get a 100,000 mile warranty on the engine, which far exceeds anything the foreign manufacturers are offering. And, you know, if a "knock" hasn't caused any harm by the end of 100,000 miles, I don't think it is really a problem, do you?
Tom
You kinda call 'em like you see 'em, don't you?
LOL
Tom
P.S. After you read the attached link, note that it quotes an article from Automotive News, a respected and popular American periodical highlighting Toyota's "serious misstep" for blaming American consumers for its engine problems: http://www.autonews.com/search.cms. I've yet to see Automotive News, however, pick up on GM's Knocking issues. Is that normal also? Sounds like collusion to me.
This is not a hauling-specification debate between GM and Toyota. It's a warranty issue. I'm real happy you got a new engine. That's a fact. We have got pure [non-permissible content removed]. That's a fact. I don't own a Toyota. I wish I did. I own a 2001 Camaro SS 5.7 liter that I can hear knocking from inside my house (windows closed), while my wife drives it down the street. That's a fact. Give me a F'n break, Dude.
It makes it a lot easier to acknowledge the fact, when someone such as yourself who owns a GM lemon can step out of loyaltyville and give an honest take on it. Toyota isn't necessarily the answer for all, because we know that they don't cater to manys needs in a truck. I sure get tired though, of all the GM truck owners who would rather die than admit there's something wrong with some of these trucks.
Hey BTW, I hate to laugh man, but hearing a car knocking as it goes down the street from inside the house gets a chuckle out of me. I myself have had a GM or two that you could hear down the street lol. At least there's someone in here that isn't afraid to put GM in its place when it needs to be.
I sure get tired though, of all the GM truck owners who would rather die than admit there's something wrong with some of these trucks.
That's real good. For someone who drives what you do, you sure pass it around now don't ya?
If you want to disagree about trucks, that's not a problem. If you want to call each other liars and take personal shots at each other it IS a problem and you need to take it somewhere else.
If you can't restrain yourselves, you're putting your access to these forums at risk.
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
I have spent many hours at numerous GM dealers, internet sites, forums, publications, and engine builder's shops, etc. When someone comes in here unprepared, laughing, going off-topic (my truck's bigger than yours, etc.), and attempting to extenuate what we have virtually proven to be real engine defects, I'm going to debate them.
Further, I don't recall anyone being called a "liar" as you infer. Perhaps that's your interpretation/opinion. Everyone has an opinion--it doesn't mean they are "liars". In your attempts at diplomacy, you only incite. I had suggested that the laughers support their "opinions" with up-to-date, factual data/links and references so we can learn from them intelligently.
I stand by my statement that anyone who thinks knocking pistons/engines are "knormal" either sells the engine or is indeed, "knuts". I learned that when I was 5-years old. Ask any certified "independent" mechanic. You should know that GM themselves "initially" agreed and replaced or repaired some engines--research: http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html. "Big Daddy's odor of mendacity".
I will not restrain myself in our pursuit for warranty coverage. Spirited debate is the "engine" of justice and I welcome all contributors. "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". And if I'm "knocked" off my soap box, I will climb back up. We will not be silenced.
Sincerely,
Nomoregm, 2001 Camaro SS 5.7 SLP all over, $29,900.00 hard earned.
(expressed by a NON-GM employee who has no relatives or friends who work for GM, and who does not know one single person who works for GM, and who owns not one share of GM stock, and who does no work for any subsidiary or supplier to GM, and who knows no one who does.)
Tom
As far as engine knock.. My '01 1500 5.3 ext cab does have knock. Upon complaining to my dealer, I was told that its 'normal for this engine' and the engine is 'running to spec at this time'. I know that this is bs but I plan to call GM and get the 5 or 6yr 100K mile warranty. I also plan to go to the gm piston slap site and register.
I agree that something should be done, I just don't see mighty GM doing anything about it though. After all, the Silverado is there top selling vehihcle and people (myself included) continue to by them. The only way they will do something is if people stop buying them and go to Ford, Dodge, or Toyota. I mean look at it from there standpoint. Why spend a bunch of $$$ on fixing it when they keep selling??? Do I agree with this concept? Absolutely not. If enough of us gripe and complain who knows????
My two cents anyway....
Since you asked me to leave, hear this: You have a "Tick"? Go find a GM "tick" site and laugh with them. This is a "Knock" site. It's titled, "GM Knock Site" and it's not limited to pickup trucks. It's not the Tundra vs. Siera site either. If I mention another auto maker, it's specific to reliability and warranty integrity. Specification comparisons don't help anyone here.
If I had a little tick instead of a big knock, I wouldn't need to come in here for valuable, relevant updates from knowledgable participants. It's just tiring trying to weed through all the BS.
Tom
Tom
Tom
nomoregm
I often wonder about people who in their bio refuse to give out any info on themselves. Let's just say it lends to your credibility. I find that people who like to troll these boards have a bio similar yours. Posts like this,
GM IS STILL SCREWING US, YOURSELF INCLUDED--WAKE UP. IT'S THE WARRANTY, STUPID.
also lend to your credibility, or lack of it. What you're stating is that people not agreeing with you is stupid. Think you may want to read, HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE.
I choose not to post my bio as a security option. I would hope you'd respect that as I would for you. I wouldn't believe them anyway if I were you. I'm flattered, however, that you took the time to research me.
I make every attempt to support my opinions here with facts and references. I've invited anyone to debate me on the facts and have tried (unsuccessfully at times) to avoid the emotion and anger that we all justifiably feel. I make no claim to be an engine expert--I've expressly stated otherwise in previous posts. I do, however, know how to research an issue and I know when I'm being buffalo'd--most of the time.
Perhaps we all need to channel our anger where it ultimately belongs--at GM's unwillingness to honor our warranties. Not all of us are having the same serious knocking problem that I and many others have. Those that don't, take issue with the way that we have been "bashing" GM. I make no apology for that. I'm thankful there are some people out there (like John and Emer) sticking there necks out with some great sites trying to get a fix for us all. I support them 100%.
I know theres plenty of people in here with knocking/pinging/ticking engines who have put miles and miles on them with seemingly no consequences, and thats great. Like Nomoregm though, I'm not going to settle and say that there isn't a problem with the quality. I've owned almost all GM and primarily worked on GM in the shop over the years. I've formed my own ideas of what is and isn't acceptable. From what I hear in here and from others, these engines and the complimenting service from GM are sub par.
Just to ease your mind a bit lol. My roomate was exiting his Rado the other day and with no extraordinary effort, the door handle snapped in two. So we go to fix it and on the way to auto parts, truck dies ... his fuel pump went out. It gets towed to shop. While I'm there I see a very sharp looking dark blue 02 ext. cab Rado. Guy walks out to get in and come to find out, its my old auto shop teacher from high school. I almost fell in love with the truck right there.
We got to talking and I told him I'm looking for a Tundra. He's a die hard Chevy guy, I think thats all I've ever seen him drive the last 10 years. He was telling me that he was happy with truck except for piston slap and cold start clatter as he called it. He then points over to the rack and I look and notice theres 4 total vehicles. 2 Sierras, 1 Rado, and a S-10. Even with all that said, I tell him, if the Tundra doesn't work out, then Rado is next on the list. We agree it's a nice looking truck, and go our ways. I'm probably not as anti GM as you would think.
Some of the auto products put out lately are lacking quality. This isn't specific to GM at all. I apply the same concept as I do with tools and much else. If it's junk, I don't use it. I'm not gonna say a knocking engine is necessarily junk, because theres other pieces to the engine puzzle. Yet even with all the complaints of knocking and so on, GM still rakes in an overwhelming amount of the truck market. Getting them to give extended warranties is great to ease individuals minds I suppose. Like you say though, I'm not sure if it's enough to make them more responsible overall. As long as the sales figures remain somewhat constant, what are they really losing ???
La
My point is this. Everyone is entitled to post their opinion whether it is supported by fact or not. My thing is there is nothing to be gained by bashing GM. Whether their QC is or isn't acceptable won't matter much until you decide whether you'd buy one or not. However, to come here and fan the flames, well, I find that as a nonproductive use of time. I usually don't comment much on other people's problems simply because I think I have enough of my own.
The poster who had the long list of problems with their GM vehicle should've research their options earlier. At this point, with the vehicle being out of warranty, I'd simply dump it and move on. Some say it's not economically feasible to do something like that. For me, my well being is more important than a vehicle or money lost by dumping it. I'd consider it the cost of a lesson learned. Remember one thing when and if you do purchase that Tundra. Toyota service ranks among the lowest in terms of customer satisfaction.
The very title of this forum suggests a fire storm of dissatisfaction. If I fan the flames, I try to back up my statements toward a productive end. I believe that there is something to be gained by questioning GM, and telling our stories. A deal is a deal and they have reneged. The same is true for any car or truck maker who follows suit. I purchased the car on the strength of its engine--it's my second new GM (first was a 305 that ran like a sewing machine well over 100k).
I did plenty of research before buying but curiously, I found nothing on the knock issue. Forums such as these are not on the cover of any web pages that I've found. All the hype is. Consumer Reports and Automotive News have not reported on this to my knowledge. Do you find that strange? These quirks interest me greatly and I like to bring them out in the open and discuss them. If I sold my car (it's for sale), tomorrow I would still post and follow this issue. I like cars.
The media is taking a back seat on the whole deal. Dare I suggest that the major corporations are in collusion with the media? Would the media turn on Big Business and risk losing all those advertising dollars? I learned today that the LS1.com internet petition has been dropped and nobody knows why (at least one of their sponsors is a GMC dealer). Have we been silenced there? I hope its back up soon, my name is on it. Is yours?
I share your grief and I too realize the physical and psychological cost of holding on to one's principles. It doesn't mean you give them up. My second car is a '97 Nissan. If Consumer Reports (I'm guessing that was your source as you supplied none), a domestic magazine tells me that a foreign make lacks in customer service compared to others, I question their sources. And if they are such an authority, why are they silent now? I wonder.
Bottom line is I don't give up on principles very easily, but I do know when to stop banging my head against the wall. There are a ton of auto and truck manufacturers out there. Hopefully one has the vehicle you're looking for. If I was to buy that type of car today, I'd probably opt for the Viper or the Vette...second childhood ya know.
Oh and btw, I've signed up on most of the petitions at ls1 all cept this one cause I haven't visited their website on a regular basis for awhile now. And when I do visit its usually at their anything goes topic.
The info regarding foreign dealer's service department was taken right off of Edmund's just can't find that link. I was particularly interested in following that Toyota sludge topic....course till it got shut down...makes you wonder doesn't it?
The cylinders with marginal specification clearances then began to knock.
This reminds me of the old story of the unreputable used car lot dealer adding sawdust to the rear differential and loading the engine up with STP just to trick people into thinking they were buying a normal car.
Only instead it's one of Americas largest corporations!Are our lawmakers and elected representitives being funded by campaign contributions by mighty GM so they will look the other way??
I've kept my end of the deal making the payments agreed on, but as my truck engine eats itself from the inside, GM states this change is "not desirable,but normal and characteristic"
Enron and Big tobacco had the same attitude.....
With your easier going attitude, it sounds like you live in the Carribean or something. I think Americans for most part will take issues to heart and demand resolution no matter how small an issue. To each his own as far as how much effort in vs. benefit there is to gain. If it's a matter of principle then so be it.
As I've stated before, I do believe Toyota has a ways to go before they're considered at the top of customer service. I solely say this based on the experiences of OTHERS. I admire their recent sludge warranty, maybe it came a little late but better late than never. We'll see what lies in store next year for the "bigger" Tundra. Otherwise, that Silverado remains tempting.
You know how serious and outspoken I am? Would you believe that a close friend of mine just purchased a new Silverado, 5.3? It doesn't knock--yet. Think I need to read that "How To Win Friends And Influence People" book real soon. .
I know another friend (I have two, Oby), who has a 1-year old slaperado with about 16k and it just recently started to "tick"--hmmmm....
"What we got heah is a failya ta cumunikyte. Some men ya jus kaint reach".
1 chevy and 1 gmc. All 4wd ext cabs. Each over 100K miles. Neither has had any problems (other than normal maintenance) and 1 has the engine knock
-- Don
-- Don
La
Life is like a game of poker. Sometimes you just gotta fold em. The key to it is knowing exactly when. While I don't live in the Caribbean we do share the same type of weather in the 50th state.
nomoregm
Yes, you should read the book before talking to this friend of yours. Or at least wait till it knocks. One thng for sure, the service manager wouldn't be lying when he says ...they all do that. The 5.7 has been around for ages. Hasn't this been an ongoing thing with the 5.7 and it's pint sized brother the 4.3?
Ive never heard of this
My 2001 Tahoe purchased 4/12/01 has never knocked. In fact it has not been back to the dealer for anything except the free oil change at 1,500 miles. This is the first time I have ever owned a car or truck that did not need at least one trip back top the dealer in the first year. I have owned mostly Toyota, Nissan and GM.
Wow, that's a lot of trucks for just 2 people!
(couldn't resist)
If a dealer or a poster here says, "the ones that knock are just as normal as the ones that don't", again, I slap my forehead and say, "Duh, ya think?"
I'll take a non-knocker please. And I don't doubt that some here "might" be getting 100K miles out of a knocker but I wonder if your performance is poorer along with oil consumption, mileage and emissions, etc. Do tell.
Let's say we use the sound clip below as a water mark--which my 5.7 sounds like.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/PistonSlap.wav
Does that sound normal to you? If so, for what duration and at what outside temperature? Mine will go for 30 minutes at 30 degrees F. It continues, just-audible when hot. Nobody that has heard my car (incl. two engine builders) considers it normal and all tell me it is piston slap.
Oby, perhaps this has been an ongoing problem with the 350 but my sister's 74 Camaro didn't do it (xcept when I was in the back seat with a black-haired beauty). I've had friends that would beat on new 1980's vintage 350's that never had it. And why are these sites, forums and dealer complaints only popping up recently? Why are most of the entries at the LS1 Petition (now apparently silenced), from model years 98-02? (almost all 5.7 liter there).
(nomore takes deep breath...) Why are GM's own TSB's only now addressing the knocking (since about 2001)? Why have they only now proclaimed that 1 U.S. Qt. per 2000 miles oil-consumption is "acceptable"? Do you agree? Why did all the dealers admit there was a fix on order just prior to the "main office" issuing all the related TSB's except for one (3.1 liter engine): http://www.expage.com/gmtsbs The 3.1 liter is in the Malibu and GM is fixing or replacing those--why? Why am I concerned? I've had several GM service managers tell me it's because of the Internet. Is that it? Did the Internet cause Ford, Subaru and Jeep to have knocking engines also--whose warranties they honored BTW.
Didn't GM have an assembly-line strike in 1997? Maybe scabs and disgruntled assemblers don't cut good blocks. I don't have all the answers.
As far as the gambling analogy goes, I'm a crack blackjack player. I've read everything from Thorpe to Uston. I know how big a differece a small percentage can make. The Casinos don't offer warranties. GM, however, does. Casinos always pay their losses. GM, the largest and most powerful auto maker in the world, has (IMHO), found a way not to pay and they have egg (and lemons) all over their face.
minikin, I hope that you will speak your mind here freely as I try to. I'll continue until I'm removed by our gracious hosts. I hope I add some perspective here at least, before I stir the soup.