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GM ENGINE KNOCK

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    allchevyallchevy Member Posts: 28
    What is a reasonable life expectancy for a properly driven,regularly maintained (engine-oil changes,tune ups etc.)in a light truck?
    125,150,200,000 miles?
    Can oil consumption be maintained at a rate of 1 to 2000 mi/qt?
    Is this what GM offers in their "free" extended warranty?
    Any decent engine I've ever had could, no problem.
    Without any knocking side effects!
    WARNING: Anyone buying a GM product at this time ends up paying for prime time advertising for GM to sell more of the defective, substandard, misengineered, abnormal engines that you are not aware you are getting when you drive the truck off the lot.
    BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    tonyytonyy Member Posts: 26
    Looking for a little info without having to search back a lot of posts, what's your recommendation for independent lab analysis of engine oil. I remember mention of a "blackburn???" or something, any suggestions for test source and how much do I need to trickle in the bottle and how much does it cost?
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    around again. The link:


    http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html


    I had two testings done so far. One at 5k and another at 3k miles. At 5k miles, the oil had some solids that I didn't particularly care for though the lab analysis said it was ok. The test at 3k miles showed none of these solids, so I guess the next test will be at 4k hoping to find a happy medium. Course it may have nothing to do with the oil and could be something in the oil filter. BTW, just to anal, I faxed a copy of each analysis to my dealership to insert into my file for future reference.

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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    I've heard of many doing engine oil analysis and I'm sure it's relatively inexpensive. I haven't done it because I think it's a moot point. A knocking motor is cutting steel--everybody knows that. Is it going to show up in an analysis? Who knows. Most of the posts talk of high "copper" levels but I'm not sure what that means.I just want GM take my noisy knocker and shove it up their assets. I've never heard of "blackburn" per se, but I can tell you that my exhausts are "black" from all the oil I'm burning on my Camaro SS 5.7.


    I have a request in to answer your question more accurately at: http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html (check it out) I'll let you know here when I find out. In the mean time, please sign the petition at http://emer.homedns.org/ls1_knock/index.asp


    Gip'M is not dealing with this piston slap issue because they don't have to. Ford's sales are hurting because of the Firestone-tire debacle. The ultimate winner here will be Dodge when this story hits the mainstream.

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    jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    Well yesterday passed by with NO return phone call from GM. I plan to call them back within a day or two if I don't hear back from them by then.
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    bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    You have purchased three lemon GMs out of three. At what point do you consider buying a different brand? Just curious.
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    bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    The question I have is - what happens when some other problem happens with your "normal" knocking engines? If a rod bearing is going out and knocks, will GM call this "normal". What happens when your main bearings go out? Since your engine is knocking, will GM repair it?

    It all boils down to - can your local dealership diagnose piston slap with 100% accuracy? When they see many, many engines coming in knocking, do they really know the cause? GM wants to group them with "piston slap" because they know that they do not have to spend any money until the piston goes through the block.
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    rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    Your disdain for GM products is apparent but as a Toyata owner your info regarding the extended component warranty for GM owners is lacking. The piston does not have to go thru the block for this component warrany to take effect, it covers the ENGINE from any mechanical malfuntion. If you owned one of our "knockers" and had the extended component warranty you would know that, please don't surmise the coverage it's not factual and your summation is misleading to Silverado owners.

    To answer your question "It all boils down to - can your local dealership diagnose piston slap with 100% accuracy? When they see many, many engines coming in knocking, do they really know the cause?"
    The dealership's are an extension of GM and are told what to say regarding this problem ie: TSB stating it's normal.
    Some dealerships have been brave enough, or make enough sales quota's to keep GM happy, that the dealership can go out on a limb and replace/rebuild the knocker on Service or General Mgrs. say so. Others just toe the line and do as Corporate tells them. I think even you can understand that.

    Ray T.
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    bigblackmotorbigblackmotor Member Posts: 11
    Tonyy and Nomore GM, You can use Blackstone at http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html or Oil Analyzers at http://www.oaitesting.com/ . There are probably more out there. I haven't tried Oil Analyzers but have heard of folks being very satisfied with them. If you go to Blackstone, they will send you a test kit for free. You will need about 1/3 to 1/4 of a quart. If you need to change oil now, there is no problem getting a sample in a clean sealable container and keeping until you are ready to send it in. The cost to send it in is $18.50 and $1.49 postage. They claim to turn the sample around and send out the report within 24 hours. Hope this helps! http://www.gmpistonslap.cjb.net
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    bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    I think that you have been mislead by GM on this one. I am not surprised.

    GM does not warrant engine knock either with its original warranty or its extended warraty. If your GM engine knocks, you are SOL.
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    bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    I don't understand - If your GM engine knocks, you have to do engine analysis to prove it knocks? Why will GM not fix this obvious defect?

    Ford - (By no means an example of quality) changed engines out because of knock. Why doesn't GM?

    Is it because GM owners have MUCH lower expectations?
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    losangelesemtlosangelesemt Member Posts: 279
    quite a few guys in here rallying to get GMs attention. NomoreGM, keep terrorizing through all the different sites and gathering info. . I know there's plenty more unsatisfied owners out there who just don't have the courage or time to hassle with research and business bureaus and so on. It would be nice to see the company first off, openly acknowledge there is a mechanical problem, and secondly, make right by it. Whether that means replacing defective components, buybacks, etc etc. A good business can always find ways to please a customer, if they really want to. Best of luck.
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    plutoniousplutonious Member Posts: 799
    Are you joking or serious when you say obyone has purchased three GM lemons out of three? I'm not going to read through pages of his posts; I'm just curious if this is true.

    Maybe even obyone himself can answer this question.
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    #562 of 564 Bigblack by bamatundra Apr 24, 2002 (12:08 pm)
    I don't understand - If your GM engine knocks, you have to do engine analysis to prove it knocks? Why will GM not fix this obvious defect?

    Ford - (By no means an example of quality) changed engines out because of knock. Why doesn't GM?

    Is it because GM owners have MUCH lower expectations?

    No, Bama, its because GM owners are not as ANAL as Toyota owners are. This relates to that smelly upper lip post I made.

    Good luck on this one now.
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Has any knocker owner done an oil analysis? If so, could you post or email me the results? I'm interested in comparing your results with mine, a non-knocker to see what differences exist. I don't doubt for a minute that there will be, but I'd like to see exactly what differences exist.

    I would like to think that the only way to get GM to "fix" the problem is to prove that the knock will cause long term damage. Up till now I haven't seen any data that supports this. Please enlighten me.

    Pluto

    You should know the answer to that question. Doubt if anyone takes Bama's posts seriously. Given time to comtemplate it, I'm sure you'll agree.
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    ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Next oil change ill get mine tested and compare with yours ok?

    SHould be june sometime Can you wait?
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    jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    You guys are all right on the money with Bama and his useless posting.

    Oby, I just did my oil change a few weeks ago in my Rado, but I think the next time I change my oil, I will send it off and contact you for the results.

    Ryan, if/when you send yours out, could you please post the results here or e-mail me?

    Thanks!

    P.S. Bama, I told you in your Tindra board what I thought of you. I also told you I would not return to your useless topic. I think it would be best to keep to your Toymota links and stay outta this topic, since you DO NOT own a Rado just as Ray T mentioned.
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Hahaha!! Do I have a choice?

    For me it doesn't matter cause if yours don't knock I can't use it for a comparison anyway. For those that do, we can compile the results and look for a common denominator. Course if Ryan's doesn't knock, we could use it as another comparison against those that do. I don't know where this will lead. I do figure, for around $20, it may be good info to have. Especailly if there is a pattern between those that do and those that don't. I'm sure it would help in anyones case against GM.
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    jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    Well mine does knock so I will send away for the oil analysis kit.

    BTW, just called GM back since they did NOT call me back. Gave them my reference number. I was told that NO ONE followed up. After laying into them a little bit they called my dealer. Of course good old Charlie the service manager at my dealer was not there.

    They are now scheduled to call me back on Friday 4/26/02 between 1-3pm EST. Cant wait for this one now!
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    bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    I'm on your side. If I bought a knocker, I would be just as outraged as you.

    I am posting against GM, not you. I am not trying to make this a "mah truck is bigger'n your'n" post. Oby and Quad have been doing this in the Tundra topics for years now.

    This is nothing to do with GM vs. anybody. This is GM vs. everyone. Sorry for the confusion.
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    Fact is, Oby made a good/lucky decision when he leased instead of purchased, as many other's have, I'm sure--especially self-employed and business owners. At the end of the lease, they may simply bail-out (and never purchase a GM truck again). Some other unsuspecting chump will get the knocker off a used lot.


    I just received a copy of Rayt's extended letter (am trying to post it--soon I promise).

    Although GM is extending these warranties, the warranty is EXPRESSLY NOT TRANSFERABLE to your buyer (except perhaps your Major Guard, OBY--you didn't get that for the knock so please don't rebuke that point). So, the best thing to do perhaps is sell your car or truck while it's still under basic warranty and the new buyer can hang out here with all the GM-loyalists to have his knocking-concerns assuaged.


    If you sell the car after the warranty expires, which is why GM is stalling, then GM (Gip'M) has no obligation to fix. Otherwise they would have done like Toyota--8 years, no matter who owns the vehicle. Not bad for a foreign-car maker. Kind of makes you want to eat some sushi now don't it.


    Bama: Your point about misdiagnosis is more relevant than you've been given credit for here. Not all knocks are piston slap, for sure. Three different Gip'M dealers that I went to never stethoscoped my car or drove it. They just called it piston slap (verbally) and on the invoice they called it a "normal noise". I had it steth'd at an independent garage and that only narrowed it down to the #8 cylinder. It still could be a pin/rod knock but either way, Gip'M doesn't want to know. They "can't handle the truth!"


    For all of Bama's detractor's, here is primer on engine-noise diagnosis--it's brief an concise so happy reading: http://remanufactured-engines.com/page4.htm

    BigBlack: Thanks for the prompt reply and assistance to Tonyy and me.
    The site, http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html, looks good and I enjoy the forum there also.

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    kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    GM cust service DOES NOT EXIST!In the month I dealt with BBB I got one call from GM to confirm my complaint/buyback claim.He said he would call back in a few days but never did.I filed the claim after numerous calls and e-mails to GM with no response except a call from an independant marketing firm verifying a call I never recieved.
    File your claim and negotiate thru BBB ,or go to arbitration.GM is NOT interested in helping you get satisfaction at thier expense.

    kip
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    kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    Thanks for Blackstone's link.I'll get my knocking 8.1 analized soon and post the results here.

    kip
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    to file with the BBB is online. I had a quick response from them within one working day.

    nomoregm

    I don't know if my Major Guard is transferrable since I didn't purchase it. I would like to believe it is but am not positive. Since you frequent the other knock sites. Do you know of anyone who has done an oil analysis?
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    eric2001eric2001 Member Posts: 482
    I also, like Dean, received the Major Guard $0 deductible bumper to bumper, but I filed on-line with the BBB for buy-back due to the cold start knock (mine only knocks during start-up when sitting for long periods).

    The extended warranty was offered to get me to stop the buy-back, which I excepted. They originally offered the motor only warranty, and I countered with the Major Guard. My warranty was only 6/75K due to the fact that I admitted I drive the truck less than 10k per year, and six years is the maximum they offer with major guard.

    I know that GM has become more reluctant to give out these warranties as of late (mine was early last fall, and vehicle had 3K on it, GM would have lost the buy-back based upon one argument: "If it was knocking from the start, the vehicle would not have been purchased", not to mention resale value degradation and so on...

    I have the Blackstone kit, and will be performing the test soon, but the oil only has 2K miles on it, but almost six months, so it is time for changing.
    -Eric
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    ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    My truck is moody. Knocks when it wants

    I havent heard it in over a month now but prior to that (when the temps dipped pretty low) it would knock for a short period of time.

    I have over 25K miles
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    I'll type it verbatim (almost) from Rayt's letter:

    CHEVROLET Customer Assistance Center

    February 18, 2002

    Dear Mr. Knocker (emphasis mine),

    Chevrolet is pleased to provide service coverage for the Engine on your 2000 Chevrolet Silverado, Vehicle Identification Number 1GCF...etc. This Service Coverage will commence upon the expiration of the applicable New Vehicle Limited Warranty and will continue until February 25, 2005 or 100,000 miles, which ever comes first. Chevrolet will make repairs to correct defects related to materials and workmanship occurring during the period specified above. The following items are covered:

    Engine block, cylinder heads, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, all internal engine components, valve covers, engine oil pan, timing gear cover engine oil pump, oil pump housing, engine seals and engine gaskets.

    Chevrolet will not be responsible for conditions arising from tampering, abuse, or improper maintenance. This coverage is not transferable to any other vehicle or subsequent owner of your vehicle. Pleas keep this letter with your Silverado. Should your vehicle require repairs within the coverage period, present this letter to the Service Manager of an authorized Chevrolet Dealership. This Service Manager should then contact the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center for confirmation and authorization of these claims.

    If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-222-1020 Monday through Friday between 8:00Am and 11:00 PM, Eastern Time. Please fefer to your request number above and any of our Customer Relationship Managers will be happy to assist you.

    Sincerely

    Justin Thrall
    Customer Relationship Manager
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    Please let me know if your Major Guard warranty is transferable. Thanks.


    Anyone who has questions on oil analysis should go to: http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html


    They keep a data base there where you can send your own results. I'm sure you can request from BigBlackMotor what the reports are showing.

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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    People, it's a little time consumming but take a minute and E-mail your local Dodge Ford, Toyota, etc. sales managers. Send the site link at gmps.com with a personal note about your "normal" knocker. Tell them how you'd hate to see some other unsuspecting comparison-shopper fall into the same lemonade. It's our civic duty. Hue and Cry. Remember Paul Revere! "The GM's are Knocking!"
    Thanks,
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    ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    id rather push my chevy than drive a ford or dodge
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    Push that Chevy oh GM loyalist. Push it right down to the engine-rebuilder's shop. If I could push my Chevy, I'll tell you where I'd like to push it....
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    What about Toyota? Then you can E-mail the Toyota dealers if it makes you feel better, O.K.? One determined man with a computer can make a big difference. Two determined men, etc. etc. Please take the time. Full-court press! "Oh the power of cheese (the net)."
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    tonyytonyy Member Posts: 26
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    eric2001eric2001 Member Posts: 482
    No, it is not transferable, sorry, forgot to post that earlier. I specifically asked that when I was dealing with the GM customer rep. I also was told that I was on the list for whatever repair was to be done, when they determined what the repair was going to be (piston replacement was discussed then).
    -Eric
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    ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Im not pushing my truck anywhere.

    It runs GREAT

    This is my big point (and my truck does knock)

    If it is such a bad problem then why hasnt there been 1 report of an engine going bad? There are alot of the newer (99 and up) trucks out there with alot of miles. No one is reporting any engine performance problems.

    I would like to hear of at least a few engine failure or problems due to the engine knock tick or whatever then i will start to worry about it. Until then ill sit on my 5 yr 100,000 warranty and not sweat anything.
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    chevy3500chevy3500 Member Posts: 1
    The 8.1 liter engine was new for 2001, this engine was designed to last 200,000+ miles. Why is Chevy only giving a 3year/36,000 mile warranty? Why are you satisifed with your knock? It is obviously a Chevy engineering design flaw. I also think my truck runs great once it stops knocking.
    I went through the BBB and complained about oil usage and piston slap after I found CAC to be useless, typical response from the CAC... "the knock is normal and we will no longer respond to your emails". I demanded that my engine be fixed, replaced or buyback, Chevy countered with a Major Guard 5 year/100,000 miles $0 deductible, and a Smart Care 12 month warranty to cover oil changes. Now I have peace of mind while I am travelling cross country with my camper and family that Chevrolet will stand behind their product.
    The major guard will get my truck through my 5 year loan, and by accepting this coverage in no way means I will stop complaining to Chevy. I have already filed a complaint with the California Attorney General about my engine knock, oil consumption and fraud.
    Why are some 8.1 engines knocking and not others? My truck's engine didn't knock when I test drove it, the dealer never disclosed that the engine could or would develop a knock, Chevy says it is a normal characteristic of this engine. But some engines knock and some don't? Gee, let's design an engine that develops a knock, oh what the hell, let's also design it so some engines don't knock. And, if we design it so it consumes oil, the consumer won't have to change the oil, just add fresh oil every fillup. Genius!
    If I had known this truck would develop a knock and consume oil, I never would have purchased this truck.
    I am spending way to much time on this subject!
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    pallypally Member Posts: 17
    I was talking to a friend the other day while he was sitting in his 02' Sierra 6.0 idling.
    I noticed a noise that sounded like a tick. I stuck my head under the truck and it was knocking. Sounded like a powerstroke. The truck has about 8000 miles on it. This guy has no idea what is going on. My late father was the same way. He had a 1979 F-150 with a 400 that spark knocked horribly for 120000 miles. Even as a kid I knew that it was a problem, be he just didn't care. I didn't have the heart to tell this guy about the GM engine knock after the nightmare that was his Dodge truck. 6 trannys and a 360 that blew at 70000 miles. This guy drives hard and i'll be watching to see if this Sierra can take it.
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    What about those that burn oil? And how many have had dyno's done to report on performance. I had a x-service manager drive my SS Camaro 350 knocker the other night and he said it was a pig. Can't break it loose on turns, burnouts, etc. He also couldn't believe his ears. Does that qualify as a report of lower performance to you? I'll get it dyno'd as well and let you know.

    Your car might go 100K but who knows. If it's not such a big deal, why did Ford, Subaru and Jeep take care of their customers. No blown engines there either. Your happy with your knock. That's OK. I'm not happy with mine. Good Luck. I'd sign up to help anyway so that GM will give you the fix that they told you to your face was needed! Don't take it from me.

    At any rate, if your like me and knock as loud, you can't be that pleased when your freinds ask what all the knocking is from your new engine.
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    That's unfortunate that Major Guard is not transferable. Usually those pricey warranties are. It will not help you much if you decide to sell. Gip'M strikes again!
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    I just saw a truck (Denali) posted at the LS1.com petition. Thanks Tim. We need more. Go on over and sign up! I'ts easy.

    http://emer.homedns.org/ls1_knock/index.asp


    C'mon oby, Ray, Tonyy, etc.

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    ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    What about those that burn oil?

    Is there a correlation between oil burning and engine knocking?

    I have heard people who had engine consumption problems and no knock. I have heard people who had both problems. Are they related?
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    rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    Chevy3500, nice post I couldn't have said it better.

    Ryan, My truck doesn't seem to use any oil unless I am pushing it hard, normal driving it uses 0 between changes. If I'm hot rodding it around it shows on the dip stick but nothing visible out the tailpipes, I still have the knock & 28k miles so far. Correlation between the two I can't say. But I'll say again The Knock Is Not Normal ! The Overstuffed GM CEO Corporate Bastards will pay eventually for this bungle.

    Ray T.
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    When you read a good one, or when you post one, click on the "MARK" tab here and you can name it in a file for future reference. Then click "MESSAGE CENTER" to retrieve it. It will save you some time finding it again to show others here. Hey, I just figured it out so if you knew, call me stupid.
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    rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    Did you post my warranty letter anyplace? I haven't seen it yet.

    Ray T.
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    losangelesemtlosangelesemt Member Posts: 279
    Try # 578
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    jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    Just got a call back from GM. They offered me the 6yr 100k mile warranty on the engine. They also offered me the same on the slip yoke.

    I declined and said at a minimum, I want the 6yr 100K mile warranty on the entire transmision. Of course they told me they would have to call me back tomorrow, to see if they could do that or not.

    I will keep y'all posted....
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    nomoregmnomoregm Member Posts: 158
    Good one to save--I did. Oh, and thanks for picking up the slack, California (city of angels).
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    losangelesemtlosangelesemt Member Posts: 279
    Well we can't expect you to do ALL the work right lol. BTW, there aren't very many angels in this city, quite the opposite = )
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    jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    I have registered at...


    http://emer.homedns.org/ls1_knock/index.asp


    I am trying to do my part!!!

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    mcrmcr Member Posts: 15
    I just read in the most recent Highways mag. under "Tech Tips" about a case of the 5.3 or
    6.0 L engine knocking/noise was cured by restricting the flow of the heater hose before it gets to the firewall. Evidently, a mechanic clamped the hose with visegrips and the noise stopped. So, the owner clamped it with c-clamp
    until he could get to dealer. Dealer put restriction in hose. I don't see how this could be the noise of the knocking engines, but thought I would pass it on FWIW. I have an 02 with the 6.0L and have not had any of the knocking/ticking so far, but just have a little of 5K on it........(knocking on wood) If mine was knocking like the ones here, I would be very unhappy also and pursuing every means to get it fix. Best of luck to all.
This discussion has been closed.