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GM ENGINE KNOCK
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125,150,200,000 miles?
Can oil consumption be maintained at a rate of 1 to 2000 mi/qt?
Is this what GM offers in their "free" extended warranty?
Any decent engine I've ever had could, no problem.
Without any knocking side effects!
WARNING: Anyone buying a GM product at this time ends up paying for prime time advertising for GM to sell more of the defective, substandard, misengineered, abnormal engines that you are not aware you are getting when you drive the truck off the lot.
BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html
I had two testings done so far. One at 5k and another at 3k miles. At 5k miles, the oil had some solids that I didn't particularly care for though the lab analysis said it was ok. The test at 3k miles showed none of these solids, so I guess the next test will be at 4k hoping to find a happy medium. Course it may have nothing to do with the oil and could be something in the oil filter. BTW, just to anal, I faxed a copy of each analysis to my dealership to insert into my file for future reference.
I have a request in to answer your question more accurately at: http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html (check it out) I'll let you know here when I find out. In the mean time, please sign the petition at http://emer.homedns.org/ls1_knock/index.asp
Gip'M is not dealing with this piston slap issue because they don't have to. Ford's sales are hurting because of the Firestone-tire debacle. The ultimate winner here will be Dodge when this story hits the mainstream.
It all boils down to - can your local dealership diagnose piston slap with 100% accuracy? When they see many, many engines coming in knocking, do they really know the cause? GM wants to group them with "piston slap" because they know that they do not have to spend any money until the piston goes through the block.
To answer your question "It all boils down to - can your local dealership diagnose piston slap with 100% accuracy? When they see many, many engines coming in knocking, do they really know the cause?"
The dealership's are an extension of GM and are told what to say regarding this problem ie: TSB stating it's normal.
Some dealerships have been brave enough, or make enough sales quota's to keep GM happy, that the dealership can go out on a limb and replace/rebuild the knocker on Service or General Mgrs. say so. Others just toe the line and do as Corporate tells them. I think even you can understand that.
Ray T.
GM does not warrant engine knock either with its original warranty or its extended warraty. If your GM engine knocks, you are SOL.
Ford - (By no means an example of quality) changed engines out because of knock. Why doesn't GM?
Is it because GM owners have MUCH lower expectations?
Maybe even obyone himself can answer this question.
I don't understand - If your GM engine knocks, you have to do engine analysis to prove it knocks? Why will GM not fix this obvious defect?
Ford - (By no means an example of quality) changed engines out because of knock. Why doesn't GM?
Is it because GM owners have MUCH lower expectations?
No, Bama, its because GM owners are not as ANAL as Toyota owners are. This relates to that smelly upper lip post I made.
Good luck on this one now.
I would like to think that the only way to get GM to "fix" the problem is to prove that the knock will cause long term damage. Up till now I haven't seen any data that supports this. Please enlighten me.
Pluto
You should know the answer to that question. Doubt if anyone takes Bama's posts seriously. Given time to comtemplate it, I'm sure you'll agree.
SHould be june sometime Can you wait?
Oby, I just did my oil change a few weeks ago in my Rado, but I think the next time I change my oil, I will send it off and contact you for the results.
Ryan, if/when you send yours out, could you please post the results here or e-mail me?
Thanks!
P.S. Bama, I told you in your Tindra board what I thought of you. I also told you I would not return to your useless topic. I think it would be best to keep to your Toymota links and stay outta this topic, since you DO NOT own a Rado just as Ray T mentioned.
For me it doesn't matter cause if yours don't knock I can't use it for a comparison anyway. For those that do, we can compile the results and look for a common denominator. Course if Ryan's doesn't knock, we could use it as another comparison against those that do. I don't know where this will lead. I do figure, for around $20, it may be good info to have. Especailly if there is a pattern between those that do and those that don't. I'm sure it would help in anyones case against GM.
BTW, just called GM back since they did NOT call me back. Gave them my reference number. I was told that NO ONE followed up. After laying into them a little bit they called my dealer. Of course good old Charlie the service manager at my dealer was not there.
They are now scheduled to call me back on Friday 4/26/02 between 1-3pm EST. Cant wait for this one now!
I am posting against GM, not you. I am not trying to make this a "mah truck is bigger'n your'n" post. Oby and Quad have been doing this in the Tundra topics for years now.
This is nothing to do with GM vs. anybody. This is GM vs. everyone. Sorry for the confusion.
I just received a copy of Rayt's extended letter (am trying to post it--soon I promise).
Although GM is extending these warranties, the warranty is EXPRESSLY NOT TRANSFERABLE to your buyer (except perhaps your Major Guard, OBY--you didn't get that for the knock so please don't rebuke that point). So, the best thing to do perhaps is sell your car or truck while it's still under basic warranty and the new buyer can hang out here with all the GM-loyalists to have his knocking-concerns assuaged.
If you sell the car after the warranty expires, which is why GM is stalling, then GM (Gip'M) has no obligation to fix. Otherwise they would have done like Toyota--8 years, no matter who owns the vehicle. Not bad for a foreign-car maker. Kind of makes you want to eat some sushi now don't it.
Bama: Your point about misdiagnosis is more relevant than you've been given credit for here. Not all knocks are piston slap, for sure. Three different Gip'M dealers that I went to never stethoscoped my car or drove it. They just called it piston slap (verbally) and on the invoice they called it a "normal noise". I had it steth'd at an independent garage and that only narrowed it down to the #8 cylinder. It still could be a pin/rod knock but either way, Gip'M doesn't want to know. They "can't handle the truth!"
For all of Bama's detractor's, here is primer on engine-noise diagnosis--it's brief an concise so happy reading: http://remanufactured-engines.com/page4.htm
BigBlack: Thanks for the prompt reply and assistance to Tonyy and me.
The site, http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html, looks good and I enjoy the forum there also.
File your claim and negotiate thru BBB ,or go to arbitration.GM is NOT interested in helping you get satisfaction at thier expense.
kip
kip
nomoregm
I don't know if my Major Guard is transferrable since I didn't purchase it. I would like to believe it is but am not positive. Since you frequent the other knock sites. Do you know of anyone who has done an oil analysis?
The extended warranty was offered to get me to stop the buy-back, which I excepted. They originally offered the motor only warranty, and I countered with the Major Guard. My warranty was only 6/75K due to the fact that I admitted I drive the truck less than 10k per year, and six years is the maximum they offer with major guard.
I know that GM has become more reluctant to give out these warranties as of late (mine was early last fall, and vehicle had 3K on it, GM would have lost the buy-back based upon one argument: "If it was knocking from the start, the vehicle would not have been purchased", not to mention resale value degradation and so on...
I have the Blackstone kit, and will be performing the test soon, but the oil only has 2K miles on it, but almost six months, so it is time for changing.
-Eric
I havent heard it in over a month now but prior to that (when the temps dipped pretty low) it would knock for a short period of time.
I have over 25K miles
CHEVROLET Customer Assistance Center
February 18, 2002
Dear Mr. Knocker (emphasis mine),
Chevrolet is pleased to provide service coverage for the Engine on your 2000 Chevrolet Silverado, Vehicle Identification Number 1GCF...etc. This Service Coverage will commence upon the expiration of the applicable New Vehicle Limited Warranty and will continue until February 25, 2005 or 100,000 miles, which ever comes first. Chevrolet will make repairs to correct defects related to materials and workmanship occurring during the period specified above. The following items are covered:
Engine block, cylinder heads, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, all internal engine components, valve covers, engine oil pan, timing gear cover engine oil pump, oil pump housing, engine seals and engine gaskets.
Chevrolet will not be responsible for conditions arising from tampering, abuse, or improper maintenance. This coverage is not transferable to any other vehicle or subsequent owner of your vehicle. Pleas keep this letter with your Silverado. Should your vehicle require repairs within the coverage period, present this letter to the Service Manager of an authorized Chevrolet Dealership. This Service Manager should then contact the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center for confirmation and authorization of these claims.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-222-1020 Monday through Friday between 8:00Am and 11:00 PM, Eastern Time. Please fefer to your request number above and any of our Customer Relationship Managers will be happy to assist you.
Sincerely
Justin Thrall
Customer Relationship Manager
Anyone who has questions on oil analysis should go to: http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html
They keep a data base there where you can send your own results. I'm sure you can request from BigBlackMotor what the reports are showing.
Thanks,
-Eric
It runs GREAT
This is my big point (and my truck does knock)
If it is such a bad problem then why hasnt there been 1 report of an engine going bad? There are alot of the newer (99 and up) trucks out there with alot of miles. No one is reporting any engine performance problems.
I would like to hear of at least a few engine failure or problems due to the engine knock tick or whatever then i will start to worry about it. Until then ill sit on my 5 yr 100,000 warranty and not sweat anything.
I went through the BBB and complained about oil usage and piston slap after I found CAC to be useless, typical response from the CAC... "the knock is normal and we will no longer respond to your emails". I demanded that my engine be fixed, replaced or buyback, Chevy countered with a Major Guard 5 year/100,000 miles $0 deductible, and a Smart Care 12 month warranty to cover oil changes. Now I have peace of mind while I am travelling cross country with my camper and family that Chevrolet will stand behind their product.
The major guard will get my truck through my 5 year loan, and by accepting this coverage in no way means I will stop complaining to Chevy. I have already filed a complaint with the California Attorney General about my engine knock, oil consumption and fraud.
Why are some 8.1 engines knocking and not others? My truck's engine didn't knock when I test drove it, the dealer never disclosed that the engine could or would develop a knock, Chevy says it is a normal characteristic of this engine. But some engines knock and some don't? Gee, let's design an engine that develops a knock, oh what the hell, let's also design it so some engines don't knock. And, if we design it so it consumes oil, the consumer won't have to change the oil, just add fresh oil every fillup. Genius!
If I had known this truck would develop a knock and consume oil, I never would have purchased this truck.
I am spending way to much time on this subject!
I noticed a noise that sounded like a tick. I stuck my head under the truck and it was knocking. Sounded like a powerstroke. The truck has about 8000 miles on it. This guy has no idea what is going on. My late father was the same way. He had a 1979 F-150 with a 400 that spark knocked horribly for 120000 miles. Even as a kid I knew that it was a problem, be he just didn't care. I didn't have the heart to tell this guy about the GM engine knock after the nightmare that was his Dodge truck. 6 trannys and a 360 that blew at 70000 miles. This guy drives hard and i'll be watching to see if this Sierra can take it.
Your car might go 100K but who knows. If it's not such a big deal, why did Ford, Subaru and Jeep take care of their customers. No blown engines there either. Your happy with your knock. That's OK. I'm not happy with mine. Good Luck. I'd sign up to help anyway so that GM will give you the fix that they told you to your face was needed! Don't take it from me.
At any rate, if your like me and knock as loud, you can't be that pleased when your freinds ask what all the knocking is from your new engine.
http://emer.homedns.org/ls1_knock/index.asp
C'mon oby, Ray, Tonyy, etc.
Is there a correlation between oil burning and engine knocking?
I have heard people who had engine consumption problems and no knock. I have heard people who had both problems. Are they related?
Ryan, My truck doesn't seem to use any oil unless I am pushing it hard, normal driving it uses 0 between changes. If I'm hot rodding it around it shows on the dip stick but nothing visible out the tailpipes, I still have the knock & 28k miles so far. Correlation between the two I can't say. But I'll say again The Knock Is Not Normal ! The Overstuffed GM CEO Corporate Bastards will pay eventually for this bungle.
Ray T.
Ray T.
I declined and said at a minimum, I want the 6yr 100K mile warranty on the entire transmision. Of course they told me they would have to call me back tomorrow, to see if they could do that or not.
I will keep y'all posted....
http://emer.homedns.org/ls1_knock/index.asp
I am trying to do my part!!!
6.0 L engine knocking/noise was cured by restricting the flow of the heater hose before it gets to the firewall. Evidently, a mechanic clamped the hose with visegrips and the noise stopped. So, the owner clamped it with c-clamp
until he could get to dealer. Dealer put restriction in hose. I don't see how this could be the noise of the knocking engines, but thought I would pass it on FWIW. I have an 02 with the 6.0L and have not had any of the knocking/ticking so far, but just have a little of 5K on it........(knocking on wood) If mine was knocking like the ones here, I would be very unhappy also and pursuing every means to get it fix. Best of luck to all.