GM ENGINE KNOCK

nomoregm

Doesn't the water-pump drive that doohicky? Maybe the F'n water pump is knocking! Add a little back-pressure and "presto chanjo". And, when the water gets hot, it stops! (Nomore slaps forehead), I'm going to go get my vice-grips.... This is a fix even I can perform. I'll try anything. Hmmmm...maybe if I run Mobil 1 through the cooling system... BTW, does anyone have THAT service-bulletin handy?

Just poking fun, mcr. Tonite I'll get drunk and actually try it!

eric2001

Just for your info, the 8.1L is not a "new engine design", but it has been altered for 2001. It was the original 454 motor, stroked to increase the displacement, with some upgrades (coil over plug, changed from TBI...)

The old 454 was known by many to consume oil at the same rate many are complaining about with the 496. Don't know if that means anything or not, just trying to give everyone some more useless information.
-Eric

nomoregm

I got this little sports car,
I bought it from GM.
But then it started knocking,
So I said, "Gentlemen?"

"This car you sold me makes a noise,
It sounds just like a knock."
"That's just a normal noise" they said,
To me that was a crock.

I took my lit'l knocker home,
while crying all the way.
I thought, "I've never heard of that"
I'll make those bad men pay.

I called the service folks that night,
they'd told me, "We'll Be There".
They read to me from memo forms,
more stuff that sounded queer.

So now I type and type all day,
a typer whose been scorned.
I type to all the sale's people,
At Dodge and then at Ford.

I think my knocker I will sell,
Dear Oby says I outta,
I'll dump it on some GM chump,
and buy a new Toyota.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

ryanbab

someone has way to much time on their hands

If i was really that upset about engine knock I would be trying to fix it instead of writing poetry

nomoregm

Think you're missing the point, ryan. Lighten up and smile a little. I can't fix it myself. It would void my precious Gip'M warranty. You know, that piece of paper that we're all holding in one hand (no extended for me) while we slap our mouse with the other?

All they gave you was a lousy good-will warranty that any reputable manufacturer would have given you anyway after your basic runs out. And if it was worth the paper it's printed on, it would be transferable. GM knows that many will bail-out before the clock even expires on their basic, never mind 100K. Besides, some of us sophisticated posters might enjoy a little piston-poetry. Wait till you see my cartoons--coming soon.... Perhaps you prefer free-verse over the iambic pantameter?

ryanbab

"some of us sophisticated posters "

Sorry i am not to that status as of yet

crosley4

now that is funny.

A friend of mine whom owns a small engine machine shop in the west phoenix Az area told me last week that he has machine about a dozen 6.0 motors .010 over in the cylinders.

I told him according to GM he is not doing that...... LOL

nomoregm

Those are probably for the GM high-level employees who've threatened to quit and go to the media unless Gip'M fixes their trucks and gives them a pay raise! It won't save their asses though because we are the un-silent/knocking majority. Can you imagine being a GM service manager right now? "Um, yes sir, our vehicles knock now, It's ummmm...normal". That must suck sooooooo bad. I'll bet all the mechanics are laughing their asses off.

xyz71

What is Gip'M?

plutonious

I don't know all the facts behind the GM knocking engines, but didn't the knocking start in 1999 with their new Vortech engines? Why didn't the older GM engines knock as well? Is the knocking a side-effect to some "improvement" done to the engines in good-faith or is it plain old cost-cutting/inferior quality-control at its worst?

ryanbab

according to many people the older pre99s knock also

Havent heard of any mass problems with them

Ryan

nomoregm

I had one Service Mgr. tell me that the "Vortec" was causing the knock in my 2001 5.7. He stood there making a whirling motion with his hands saying that, "all that air streaming around makes all kind-of noise". Hmmmm, I thought to myself (but couldn't say it)...the only noise I hear is when the air goes in your left ear, swirls around and exits out of your right.

Xyz, I promise not to crack yours if you don't crack mine.

plutonious

the knocking started when GM started using new pistons which, upon expanding after achieving operating temperatures, would provide tighter tolerances between the piston/rings and cylinder bore walls. Seems like a good concept in theory but everybody knows that the tighter the tolerances between parts, the more quality control is needed. I find it interesting that most of these knocking engines only have 1 or 2 pistons that are actually knocking, or more correctly, slapping. If tighter quality-control protocol was used by GM, maybe 1 out of 1000 pistons would slap, versus 1 out of 8.

At any rate, why exactly were tighter tolerances needed in this case? Did the older engines have too much "slop" in them? Couldn't the tolerance issue have been solved with better piston rings?

obyone

Have you read my post at http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html

or was it deleted. Apparently the host of the forum can't take the heat. He answers questions before and after your post but not yours. Go figure. Well its the last time I'm going there anyway.

Now, if you or he would like to discuss this further you can take it here:

http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/

This is a place where one can discuss other's opinions without fear of being banned or having their posts altered. It was originally designed for those Tundra owners who would have liked to have a more SPIRITED discussion. Course none of them ever showed. So you are welcome to join as I will make a post there stating my point of view and what I think of Mr. Bigblackmotor.

GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE NOW!!!

Oh Pluto and Bama, if you want to stop by there and put in your two cents you are more than welcome.

And yes this is on topic as we don't want to violate our TERMS OF USE here at Edmund's and is a continuation of GM engine knock.

plutonious

I just might have to do that. Why were people ignoring and deleting your posts there? Hmmmmm...

nomoregm

I don't see any post by your username (oby) there. Did you confirm it was posted? BigBlack might have deleted--I don't know. Only he can answer. It's his baby. This is a hot issue and sometimes you get burned. But you know how I feel about free speach. I'll check you out at teleweb.
I sure wish GM would step up to the plate at some of these forums. Pretty damn gutless not to. Like were a bunch a friggin small frys to them. We'll see....

nomoregm

Your's truly and others now appearing at: http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/ Check your restraints and firearms at the door, please.

smith53

my 96 silverado 5.7 engine had a cold knock problem. it lasted about five seconds. the longer i had the truck the louder it got. while under warranty it was called a lifter noise by the dealer(it wasnt very loud when i first heard it)but as the miles increased on the engine so did the noise in the engine.

obyone

People weren't ignoring and/or deleting my posts. I had made one post. It was a comment on the host ignoring nomoregm's request for oil analysis info. Guess he didn't like the idea of me addressing that issue. Course I did it in the same fashion I post here. No profanity. No name calling....well you know.

plutonious

lotech1

What's up with the Major Guard for the knocking motors. I got MG on my Buick (72months/75,000 with 0 deduct) and it's transferable. Sounds like a mind game being played on the owners of these vehicles.

obyone

its transferable. I doubt that it will be transferred though figuring this truck will be run past the 100k.

nomoregm

My basic that is, Gip'M has told me [knock!] I can transfer it from my filing [knock! knock!] cabinet and into the hole behind my [knock!] knuts. And I don't have to [knock!] use any Mobil 1, they said. SAHWHEET!

losangelesemt

nomoregm

If you heard a knocking noise on my last post, it's a normal characteristic of nomoregm. It will not cause any damage to durability or longevity of my post. Please don't ask me anything more about this issue. Nomore [k-nock!] GM.

losangelesemt

Just curious, have you had any other problem GMs in the past or is it just your current one that's got you on this mission to Mars ??? I smell a GM commercial in your future.

nomoregm

GM changed my oil and sealed it up to monitor my oil-burn (2001, 5.7 SS knocker, 8k miles). Right kind of them fellers. I'm down just about a 1/2 qt. low with 480 (that's "foe-ate-tee") miles since. My tail pipe (custom ctr mount), is black as "Texas tea." I run my finger on the inside of the pipe and it's wet, "BLACK GOLD". What a piece of s#!t! Just like the big rigs' diesels. Burn, baby, burn!

Hmmmmm...I'll take one of those big-[non-permissible content removed] (SLP) chrome horns with my extended warranty. Paahlease!

"List'n to a storah 'bowt a main name Jed....o/ o/

nomoregm

Mission perhaps, but not to Mars. To the heart of GM. The reason I bought my Camaro, California, is because I never had any problem with a GM engine. The rest of the cars are Ho-hum cheap plastic. They make their money on styling and carpet-bomb advertising. This is my second new one. First was a 305 that ran like a dream. I thought I'd try'm again after having bought a Maxima--second car. I actually had more faith in the American warranty. Boy I learned fast. Hence my name.

I smell a GM commercial too. The one where they have to explain why their engines knocked for X-number of years without fixing them for their loyal customers like me. The longer they wait, the worse the smell. They are gambling with this non-fix policy and I'm sure they weighed their options beforehand. In the near term it looks good right now. But the chickens will come home to roost. When it comes to cars and women, a man does not forget.

I hope only the GM jackasses who caused this crap will lose their jobs when the share-price falls as a result.

nomoregm

January, 2002 story:

One Knocker made the news...and got $1500.00 back from his dealer to make him feel better...BooHoo.

Now how's that for incentive to write to your local I-team! Free money boys! All ya got to do is WHINE!

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/health/11502_a13_chevy.html

losangelesemt

"When it comes to cars and women, a man does not forget."

Very true my friend, very true. Just don't be dating any female GM employees ya hear. That would only be setting you up for the worst of disasters, not to mention, sleeping with the enemy.

nomoregm

I could also be screwing the enemy...Had you previously seen that artcle I posted on my last link? Re-[non-permissible content removed]-diculous.

nomoregm

Would like to know if that's possible. Thank you.

nomoregm

Hope you're not out drinking in your knocking GM trucks--ya might spill your drink.

bamatundra

I'm still here.

I am amazed at how few Lemonado owners are posting in the Tundra topics now. Maybe this topic has had a beneficial effect?

nomoregm

Howd it feel when Toyota finally fessed-up? Maybe now that they have, the slaperado people have no gripe with anyone except for our fellow patriots at GM. I mean, I can understand being dogged by a foreign country's corporation. But when your own comrades screw you--man that's lower than Britney Spear's jeans.

bamatundra

All Tundras ever built are not included in the sludge topic. ObywannaTundra was just trying to divert attention away from the GM Knock topic. Too painful for him, apparently.

We ARE talking pickups - aren't we?

ryanbab

Worked the past 2 days

Gotta make money for truck mods

ryanbab

I mean

tonnaeu cover, seat covers, rear speakers, etc

No engine mods (truck runs fine as is)

bamatundra

As far as mods go - I would say GO FOR IT! Chev will not honor their non-existent warranty anyway.

bamatundra

I am outraged that GM will not honor its warranty. I do not own a GM vehicle (Thank God!) but I would be the first one to remind them of the warranty obligation that they are ignoring.

Does GM admit that a knocking engine is "normal"? If so, can new Chev buyers hear a tape of the knocking before they buy their vehicles? It just seems fair.

PF_Flyer

I don't have an exact number, but I know there are more than 500,000 registered Town Hall used ID's.

PF Flyer

Host

Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

nomoregm

But not at the dealership. They can click the sound-link at gmps.com and other places. I'll bet the dealers themselves want to hear some of these trucks before they buy them from the factory. That's why we have to get the word out. People say I'm just bashing GM. But If you go down the road and flash your headlights to warn others of a speed trap, does that mean you're bashing the coppers? I don't think so. I'm trying to educate others and get my car repaired also.

I would like to have been warned before I purchased. I researched cars for two years on the internet, etc. I spent alot of time at LS1.com as a matter of fact. I do, however, know how I missed the knocking pages/info. LS1.com makes money on GM sales/advertising. They're not about to put a notice to consumers that will hurt them. The info about the knock is buried deep and needs to be put in the forefront. I think this stuff just surfaced less than a year ago, I don't know.

Yes, GM admits knocking is normal, in writing, on thousands of service invoices and on their own TSB's. That's the insanity of it. If I was writing the debut/knock warning article in Car & Driver magazine, I would reply to GM's claim that knocking is "normal" like this: "It's also normal for humans to lie, cheat, shrug their responsibility and fleece one another." In GM's case, it's easy to do because they have the major-mass media as their hushed-up (with advertising dollars), accomplice. Perhaps LS1 and Pickuptruck.com can push a new "mod" for GM owners: Ear Plugs!

A sad irony: I don't mind if a business makes a profit on me, that's fair. But, most of us were charged advertising and paid it as part of the invoice. We actually paid for all the false confidence they instilled in us with slogans like, "We'll be there", "Professional Grade", and "Like a rock". Further, when you buy a warranted product, you pay a premium for that warranty. In this case, perhaps GM didn't charge enough of a premium to cover the fix that is required.

Like a Crock!

losangelesemt

In accordance with this topic, I think you mean ... "Like a knock" = )

xyz71

I would like to know what you mean when you post Gip'M. Since I live in Texas I know what Gig'M (not sure of the spelling) means, as in Gig'M Horns!! Is this just something else you made up? You know like your 12 trips to 3 different dealers, BBB, State AG and lawyer ($$) working to get your engine replaced.

Bamma -
I know Toyota has a few knocking Tundra V-8's - (not as many as GM) what is Toyota doing about it - have they offered the 8 year no limit warranty - or is that just for the sludge problem?

nomoregm

TSB# 2002-69-0000000-86

RE: Noises under the hood

Service Technicians:

Some of our hyperacusic customers are noticing a sort-of "noise" coming from somewhere in front of the car. The noise, which sometimes goes away, is almost always associated with an incessant whine coming from the customer's pie-hole. As you are aware, during the GM-union strike of 1997-98, we had to outsource parts-manufacturing to offshore suppliers like Mexico. We suspect that some of the workers there inadvertently dropped "Mexican jumping-beans" into the engine blocks. The condition is likely caused when the bean comes into contact with gasoline which irritates them, causing them to jump violently. Though we conclude that this condition causes no harm to the longevity of the engine or the beans, we will now offer a "fix" for those customers who suffer from the noise.

Step 1: Vehicles exhibiting this condition will first be given a jumping-bean tonic: Tequila (1 quart--"professional grade"). Place one-ounce of Tequila in the vehicle's gas tank (This has no affect on the noise but gives the customer the impression that you're interested in his vehicle). Give the remainder of the Tequila to the customer, intravenously. Use caution, this will make the customer very happy. Industry data shows that the customer will quickly leave the dealership with his/her CD-player cranked at high volume. The noise is then no-longer audible.

Step 2: Allow 6 years or 100,000 miles to elapse. If the customer returns anytime prior, repeat step 1.

"Pass it along"

nomoregm

Gip'M as in "jip them" customers out of their warranty. Also, I really don't mind if you don't believe what I've done to get my engine replaced. Be that as it may, I don't understand how anyone can be so indolent not to have researched the fact that I'm not the only one with this Knock whose also exhausted all those same avenues. If I believed for a moment that you were someone who could help in this matter, I'd e-mail you copys of the correspondence. BTW, the Better-for Business Bureau, without my consent, settled my case prior to affording me an arbitration which I insisted on in writing. That now negates any arbitration hearing for me. They completely ignored the knock issue and sided with GM.

The Massachusetts' State Attorney General's office sent me a boiler-plate reply to my letter saying, "We're looking into it". They will likely not act unless numerous complaints are received. I had previously consulted an attorney but have not issued a retainer($$). I believe there is more that can be done without the expense of an attorney at this point. Can you believe that?

You may disagree with me if you like but I think if your going to question a poster's integrity as to the veracity of his story, then your motives are questionable at best.

kg11

"I believe there is more that can be done without the expense of an attorney at this point.Can you believe that?"
NO I can't.Are you sure you do? What are you doing other than trying to entertain us here?If you've got something up your sleeve then PLEASE SHARE IT WITH US,and no more phony TSBs.You got me all excited over nothing.

As for Xyz questioning a poster's integrity,your user profile IS questionable.If we know you're not WHO you say you are ...

kip

PF_Flyer

The topic is GM Engine Knock. It is not each other.

Disagree all you want about the trucks, even facts, but don't let it spill over into talking about each other rather than the topics at hand.

Thanks

PF Flyer

Host

Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

ryanbab

The whole thing can be found at http://www.gm-trucks.com under the heavy duty section titles meeting with gm

"well went to the metting with gm on friday at my dealer.. My faith in gm is back. i found out alot of info on oil consuption and other issues i have with the 8.1l vortec.. well the reason i was given that inorder for them to get and have a more powerful truck and get better mpg as well as longivity. they put low tension rings in the truck. so that everything they wanted would be achieved. they had to sacrifice something so they figured 1-2 quarts per 3k miles was ok. it was a pretty informed metting and as the result of that i have my 8.1 back "

nomoregm

I was afraid that might happen. I'm sure you'll agree that my phony TSB is no-more phony than the real ones that GM is pumping out to save much needed corporate-executive annual-bonus money.

I'm sorry but I have hired attorney's in the past and have had some success (non-related issues), but it is expensive, in my experience. Just my opinion. I DO believe it. I only resort to humor, in this case, to help expose the sad truth about GM. They did, however, have a strike in 1997-98 and they did have engine blocks made in Mexico .

Joe3891, I used the r-word in an editorial context to illuminate the irony that we Americans believe our vehicles are more reliable, better engineered and beyond reproach. I agree it was a poor choice of words and I could have got my point across without using it. I thought it appropriate given the oil-burning, apple-pie analogy. I apologize if I offended anyone by using the rice, apple-pie or jumping-bean metaphors. The fact is, I own a Japanese vehicle and it owes me nothing.

My user profile is now updated to address the numerous complaints I've received about its validity.