GM ENGINE KNOCK

nomoregm

Seems there are so many problems, they couldn't narrow it down to one specifically like gmlemonowner did here. Well, I learned alot about motorcycles while I was there. One Tundra dude's paint on the ctr console don't match. And his window rattles when its half-way down--I think that would be the guide adjustment. And some even knock for like 15 whole seconds! Anti-drain back filter maybe? Is there some specific post I should read there or should I go back (after I finish my 12-pack). No, I think I'll peal my fingernails back instead--Sheeez!

The next time I type the word Toyota will be on the bank-check I use to buy one.

sonjaab

Put a brick on the gas pedal. Smoke
the motor ! GM will repLACE it !
check out www.toyotasolutions.com
THERE ARE NO FLAWLESS CARS OR TRUCKS !
LOOK how long toyota stepped up on the
sludge issue...GM will prob. take just as
long................Geo

losangelesemt

"Nice to be missed. Had to go to New Hampshire ("Live free or die"), and get in touch with the mountains"

Hey you didn't floor that ole dog and send him into orbit on a treacherous switchback did ya now ??? lol. I came across a thought here after the last few posts ...

Toyota in their continuing sludge saga, has finally offered what seems to be a satisfactory resolution, at least to the majority of people. Heres whats interesting though ... The exact cause or causes are yet to be determined, yet the company is still offering the 8 year unlimited mileage policy. Has GM even informally brought any theories out in the open regarding the widespread engine knocking ???

I realize that to some of you who have complained, that you were offered the 5 or 6 year 100,000 mile warranty or something similar (someone feel free to be exact). Is this in addition to a factory warranty or what exactly is the GM customer gaining here which will be of benefit with regards to engine knocking and further complications ???

We may very well find out that Toyotas sludge problem wasn't caused by Toyota much at all. Or conversly maybe they are overwhelmingly at fault. Either way they have still offered up something to the table which seems to have eased minds for now. Anyone who's accepted GMs ext. warranty feel this same way ???

Cheers

rayt2

A couple hundred posts ago was the content of the GM Extended Component Warranty letter posted for all to see, so for your benefit here it is again.........

CHEVROLET Customer Assistance Center

February 18, 2002

Dear Mr. Knocker (emphasis mine),

Chevrolet is pleased to provide service coverage for the Engine on your 2000 Chevrolet Silverado, Vehicle Identification Number 1GCF...etc. This Service Coverage will commence upon the expiration of the applicable New Vehicle Limited Warranty and will continue until February 25, 2005 or 100,000 miles, which ever comes first. Chevrolet will make repairs to correct defects related to materials and workmanship occurring during the period specified above. The following items are covered:

Engine block, cylinder heads, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, all internal engine components, valve covers, engine oil pan, timing gear cover engine oil pump, oil pump housing, engine seals and engine gaskets.

Chevrolet will not be responsible for conditions arising from tampering, abuse, or improper maintenance. This coverage is not transferable to any other vehicle or subsequent owner of your vehicle. Pleas keep this letter with your Silverado. Should your vehicle require repairs within the coverage period, present this letter to the Service Manager of an authorized Chevrolet Dealership. This Service Manager should then contact the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center for confirmation and authorization of these claims.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-222-1020 Monday through Friday between 8:00Am and 11:00 PM, Eastern Time. Please fefer to your request number above and any of our Customer Relationship Managers will be happy to assist you.

Sincerely

Justin Thrall
Customer Relationship Manager

So there you have it........ does it give me a comfy cozy warm all over feeling knowing GM will cover the inards of my knocker? NOT! but I won't know what good the letter is till I try to use it, and won't be able to use it till the engine blows, I'm sure. But GM has already failed to honor it's present 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty on this very issue which has started this whole snow ball effect we now have. First their working on a fix for our knockers, 6 months later NO FIX but now it's a "normal" engine noise. Until their layed out on the carpet by consumer advocates and the like, GM is just a "General Malfunction" w/overpayed CEO"s stuffing their pockets while we owners are taking it in the shorts w/o the jelly! I'm beyond ability to apply New Yorks Lemon Law so I must rely on the GM piece of paper or hope for the "Fix".
Where's that beer for my early morning reality check!

Ray T.

nomoregm

You say, "THERE ARE NO FLAWLESS CARS OR TRUCKS..."

Please, read my post #698. I've conceded that fact. I said the Japanese make one of the world's "most" reliable automobiles and easily "blow the doors off" GM, specifically. If you disagree, fine. Obviously, none of your GM's knock. Be warned. I suggest you put a "brick" on your check book before you buy that new Cadillac. You might just find yourself in the same position that we are--knocked, doggy-style. Just trying to help-out a fellow American.

I've always thought that comparing Toyota with GM is sort-of like comparing Harman Kardon with RCA. Thank you, however, for the interesting links.

It's my sincere hope that GM will redeem themselves and warrant their engine defects sooner than Toyota did. They are running out of time, however, as both sludge and knocking started at roughly the same time, circa 1997-98. Ford, if I'm not mistaken, did it in two years.

losangelesemt

Thanks for reposting that. I think what was confusing me was my neighbor has a knocking Sierra and he was telling me that the factory warranty is 5 years. So then I read the GM letter and see that it applies until 2005 and it kinna threw things off. Made it sound like the ext. warranty wasn't really extended ya know. I personally thought GM did the 3/36K but my neighbor who owns one keeps telling me otherwise lol.

Oh well ... maybe they'll throw in some jelly for the shorts there sometime in the future. General Malfunction, thats a new one I like it lol.

Cheers

nomoregm

Your quote: "Has GM even informally brought any theories out in the open regarding the widespread engine knocking ???"

The insanity of this is that yes, they have. They have expressly stated (TSB's), that the "noise" is a result of "interaction" between the "piston" and "cylinder wall". That's a euphemism for the term, "piston slap", a commonly-known term which for obvious reasons, GM avoids using.

When these same engines started experiencing the predictable high oil-consumption which is associated with piston slap, GM countered with the now-famous, oil-use TSB which raised the bar on oil use to 1 quart per 2000 miles. It actually contradicts the knocking TSB's and GM's claim of "normalcy" by closing with: "Engine Wear, Piston scuffing, 'excessive piston-to-wall clearance', tapered or out of round cylinders, worn, damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will all cause an increase in oil consumption."

Those TSB's fly directly in the face of what every pundit is saying. They deny modern technological achievement. They disagree with what GM's competitors have all concluded regarding pistonslap. They will go down in automotive history as the most incredibly ludicrous technical directives from any car company, let alone the largest, which uses propaganda such as "World Class" and "Professional Grade".

Here again, are the "Fabulous-4" TSB's:

http://www.expage.com/gmtsbs

rayt2

The illustration view page is no longer available from the link on the TSB, in case ya didn't know.

I'm going to be firing off a letter to my State Attorney General using their own TSB's against them. Furhter I'll throw in the copy of my first complaint regarding "knock" where the dealer stated in writing on service ticket that "GM is aware of problem and working on a fix". If that's not enough I'll give em a copy of my extended warranty letter for the engine and ask the obvious, why do I need another warranty for a vehicle that presently has one to cover this problem?
Now how they gonna explain that to the Attorney General's office ???????????

Anything to rattle our sabres at the lower than pond scum Corporate Dogs of GM ! "Like a Rock" ?? more so "Like a Crock"
Ray T.

nomoregm

But the text is still there. That's what kills me. Such BS. You can get the illustration from the link at GMPS.com, I think.

nomoregm

Do you believe me? If I were, would I really have to insist it upon you? GM would like you to believe they are in a league of professionals like their Japanese and German competition. But they merely subscribe to the lemmings' theory. That the mass of lemmings will believe what the mass media tells them--no matter if the facts dictate otherwise.

"Pass it along"

nomoregm

sonjaab

Ask my cousin about his Flawless 96 Camry
Belt broke at 69k...BYe BYE motor !
So hes driving his old 90 Cavilier with
119k....He sez 3k rebate on new cavs plus
gm family discount. He knows which car to
buy again !..............geo

jaijay

I was looking at the current issue of my Good Sam camping magazine and two different folks wrote in with knocking problems with their new GM trucks. Both trucks began knocking while pulling a trailer with the knock sound increasing with engine RPM. Each problem was solved at two different dealerships.

From the column in the magazine, the first dealership decided to replace the pistons claiming that they were all carboned up. This seemed to correct the first person's problem.

The other dealership decided to take the engine-knocking truck for a test drive and during that drive applied a pair of vicegrips to the heater inlet hose slowing the flow of water. During the test drive experiment, the pinging sound went away. When the customer got home from their trip, the customer added a restrictor to the heater hose per the dealer's suggestion and the problem has never happened again.

The article continued to say how different dealers are correcting the annoying knock problem with various approaches. The magazine mentions that the heater hose restrictor approach has been a common fix for the pinging sound which is being interpreted as engine knock.

Just my .02

rayt2

There is a distinct difference between (piston slap) knock & pinging. Replacing the pistons may have worked on the one truck provided they rebored the cylinder which you didn't mention(and they probably didn't either)
Cripping a heater hose to stop ping, well I guess Iv'e heard it all now, but GM can still top it with their lore don't ya know! They need to fess up and FIX the problem not smoke & mirrors!

Ray T.

nomoregm

The rubber timing belt in the 96 Toyota needs to be replaced ($220) at 60,000 miles (owner's manual) or the pistons will smash into the valves which stop moving when the belt breaks. It will not last much longer than 60k as your cousin found out. They use rubber belts to make the engine quieter. Nissan uses a chain (100K life) which is why I bought a Maxima.

Go visit Alldata.com and compare the number of TSB's between the Cavalier and the Toyota Camry, the latter of which trades honors with the Honda Accord year after year as the best selling car in America. The best selling car in history is the Toyota Corolla which is in the same class as the Cavalier but twice the car. Rebates are just that-- "Re-BAITS". Don't get hooked. You're beating up on a dead horse, my good friend.

I apologize for going off topic, Gentlemen, but the man is persistent.

nomoregm

Both examples you gave are solutions to two different defects.

The first, piston-slap knock, can be repaired by replacing the pistons but as Rayt pointed out, the block MUST be rebored and a new ring-pack installed to be done correctly. Unfortunately, very few mechanics can tear down an engine and put it back together "like-new". The call-back ratio will be high on these types of repairs. The most desirable and deserved fix for a new-car owner is the installation of an entire new (crate), correctly-assembled engine. Some warranties, however, allow for a remanufactured engine (less desirable). GM's warranty is one. Read the fine print.

GM has opted to do NO repairs for most owners because they mis-assembled so many engines and it will cost them too much money. I'll bet the article failed mention that. Perhaps GM is a valuable sponsor of the magazine?

Secondly, the "heater-hose fix" for knocking engines has nothing to do with piston slap and even my baby sister would cringe at that one. It will, however, fix what some GM vehicles have shown as a "Whirling" noise from the heater-core which is behind the dash in the passenger compartment. By constricting the hose, reduced water flow stops the noise.

Thanks for the head's up!--which issue of Good Sam did you find that in?

nomoregm

GM...

#10) "We're making all kinds of noise!"

#9) "We'll be there! And if we can't fix it, we won't."

#8) "Hey, if it does break, how's a 're-manufactured' sound?"

#7) "Why be normal?"

#6) "A knocker born every minute."

#5) "Extended warranties--no questions asked."

#4) "We're flying into your town, one burnin', seven turnin'."

#3) "We will not be silenced!"

#2) "Is that oil on your tail-pipe or are you just happy to see me?

And the number one 2003 GM slogan:

"Just add gas and, 'Snap, Crackle, Pop!'"

losangelesemt

Lmao man ... don't know where you find this stuff but it keeps a light mood to a dark situation.

plutonious

diesel fuel in their knocking Chevys?? Maybe the knocking characteristics of both the diesel fuel and the engine will cancel eachother out!

kg11

tomh12

Not much going on in this topic...

A few weeks back, some people would rag on others for posting anything other than certified complaints about knocking engines.

Now we have Tundra or Taco owners suggesting diesel fuel for a fix.

You would think this site would be over flowing with new complaints from GM owners, but rather it seems to be the same old complaints from the same people over and over....urged on by the Toyota crowd, of course.

Could this be just to keep the topic near the top of the list? I predict a flurry of personal attacks rather than any new information, so I will state again.......I do not work for GM or any subsidiary thereof....I do not know anyone who does....I do not own any GM stock or any stock in any company that does business with them to my knowledge....I own a 2001 GMC 2500 6.0L that has a "tick" on cold start. I have an extended warranty that I purchased when I bought the truck new. I am not concerned with my engine's longevity, BUT I probably do not have an engine that exhibits the WORST example of "knocking". If I did, I would hire an attorney.

Tom

kg11

My 8.1 sounds like a diesel when you start it in the morning,that's why Pluto's post was funny.When it blows up I hope the new engine will have been re-designed.

kip

tomh12

I can appreciate that. I just think it's funny that the Toyota guys...Pluto and Bama... come in here posting for no obvious reason other than to keep this topic in view near the top of the list. But they will [non-permissible content removed]-slap a GM owner in a minute for posting in the Tundra problems topic. My post was really a parody of Pluto's posts about things being quiet in the Tundra problems topic other than the GM guys posting there. I sincerely hope you won't need a new engine for any reason.
Tom

bamatundra

How about "GM - We've got the biggest knockers" LMAO!

kg11

bamatundra

No need to get upset. This is a GM engine knock topic. I think we need a little more levity - don't you? You are taking this much too seriously!

nomoregm

As I see it, here is where we stand vis a' vis the GM Knock. We are waiting for GM to make a move. The ball is in their court. I am not sitting on my thumbs, holding my breath, whining about this guy or that guy's personality. I do alot of research. I send alot of mail. I try to be pro-active. I am in contact with my GM dealer and have an open case at the BBB. I have no problem knocking GM as they are knocking me. I purchased the right. If someone trys to mitigate my grievance, I will challenge them. I welcome all takers. I pray that you are from GM. I want you especially.

When you talk about a car-builder whose selling defective engines, it's simply unavoidable to compare them with their rivals. That's what drives companies to improve their products. I see no problem with this topic evolving to include such a discourse. It's also important to compare how those companies ultimately fixed their defects. Recently, when Toyota accepted their customers' warranty claims on sludge engines, it must have shook the timbers at GM's executive board as they are now the last "hold-out" with respect to denied engine-warranty claims. All the rest have conceded.

Tom, you have a "tick?" Maybe you should get a flea collar. I'm not entirely impressed with your contributions here either but I respect your right to post your bitterness nonetheless. Are you the receptionist at the trial-lawyer's association? Read my lips--I don't want a lawyer and I suspect that many others here don't either.

Kg11--"Get a room?" Send me some pics, when GM is finished with me, maybe I'll give you a shot at the title.

sonjaab

100plus k miles caviler still running
what can I say?

nomoregm

If the engine was built right to begin with, it'll go 100K miles when maintained and not abused and in most cases, not knock or even burn oil. My 96 Ford Bronco has 125k. No Knock, No oil burn--much power. That year Bronco is one of the worst rated vehicles for reliability in Ford's history.

I've driven a 1977 new Chevy El Camino (305) to 125k before selling because it rotted through the bed. I wish I could have taken the engine out and installed it in my next car--tight! What a sweet car--my first new car.

I'm not here to say Japanese good, American's bad. But the Japanese are statistically far more reliable. That's undeniable. I'm here to say that some engines are good and some are indeed bad, no matter who the maker. That's why God made warranties.

Hey, if I didn't believe in GM, I wouldn't have purchased. One needs to be careful right now though. They are feeding us some real s#!+.

nomoregm

I hear that it has been revised once more from 1 Qt. per 2000 miles to 1 Qt. per 100 gallons of gas consumed. I've tried to find it (TSB) but haven't had any luck. In my case, that would mean 1 qt per 1600 miles of travel city driving. I think I still qualify.

Jesus, you better tune-up your sense of humor for that one boys.

allchevy

Can consumers become so "throw away" brain washed by knock head General Motors that banging, oil consuming modern engines that would have been laughed at in recent automotive history are now normal, maybe a little unwanted, but acceptable?
It does not matter if your GM engine purred quietly on the dealers lot when you paid many thousands of after tax earnings from your paychecks.
Now GM can rewrite and change the specifications of your engine performance that they helped establish in the past to suit their convenience and cover their mistakes all while riding the backs of a unsuspecting, trusting public.
It's obvious many people are not buying the TSB's (Totally Silly Bulletins) that GM changes with the seasons. How long can they keep their head in the sand ?
When they finally come up for air, there will be less "customers" dreaming about that shiny new GM vehicle in their driveway.
If it won't last... don't buy it !!

kg11

Yeah,my last post was a cheap shot,like most of Bama's posts here AND in the Toyota threads as well.Nomore if you're gonna stand on the same side of the net as him you gotta expect the ball to come your way.
Fact is both of your top 10 posts were funny(Bama's being the best by far)but I'm not laughing about the noise that comes out from under my hood and it pisses me off when someone with an undersized truck tells me that I'd be better off with less than half the payload and torque cuz it says Toyota on it.I bought the most capable pickup on the market and GM owes me what Toyota don't even want to make.

kip

tomh12

Since you are taking up Bamatundra's habit of renaming people, you really are beginning to sound much more like a Tundra troll than a disgruntled GM owner. If I had an engine that sounds like your description of yours (IF you really own one), I would want to get rid of it too. The thing that you seem best at doing is attacking GM as if every engine they build is a piece of junk....just isn't the case. Even the ones that do knock seem to be doing just what GM says they will.....running with no effect on engine life. The 1 quart per 2000 mile oil use figure has been around a lot longer than the new engines.
You may not be impressed with my contributions, that's fine since I didn't write to impress you, but I think you are seeing a reflection of your own bitterness, not mine. I am a satisfied GMC owner. I hope you win your BBB case and go buy a Tundra so you and Bama can ride off into the sunset.
Tom

PF_Flyer

Time to remind you all AGAIN to stay away from the namecalling and personal comments and stick to the trucks.

Just a reminder that every Thursday you can join the Subaru Crew for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Stop in to talk about Subaru or just to say hello! Either way, I hope to see you there!

/direct/view/.eea5f48

PF Flyer

Host

Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

ryanbab

PF how in the heck does subaru crew chat have anything to do with gm engine knock?

plutonious

"The thing that you (nomoregm) seem best at doing is attacking GM as if every engine they build is a piece of junk....just isn't the case. Even the ones that do knock seem to be doing just what GM says they will.....running with no effect on engine life."

What a perfect illustration of something I've believed all along - GMC fans sure have low expectations. I think most people who would buy a used truck for maybe $8K wouldn't mind putting up with a knocking engine, interiors that fall apart, misaligned doors, shaking steering columns (do I really need to go on?) etc. BUT these trucks COST TOO MUCH DAMN MONEY to be putting up with that CRAP. For $30K, I think a truck buyer has every right to be a little demanding, don't you??

If I were to spend that kind of money on a truck, I would also hope that it have some kind of decent resale value. Good luck selling a knocker, nobody's going to want it, even though it's "the longest lasting, most dependable truck on the road."

bamatundra

"Since you are taking up Bamatundra's habit of renaming people"

When you stop your incessant, puerile banter - I will call you by your posted name. I'm not holding my breath.

People have certain expectations whenever they buy a new vehicle. One is that it will always start and run. If you ask your Gm salesman, I'll bet they will argue that knockerados always will start and run.

What happens if you ask you GM salesman if the engine will knock? Will he tell the ugly truth - that if you are lucky, it won't knock, but if you are unlucky - you get to live with your knocker because GM refuses to repair it? What does this say about GM's warranty?

Ford went through a very similar situation several years ago, and they stepped up to the plate (although belatedly) and did warranty repairs on their knockers. Why shouldn't GM do the same?

plutonious

to inferior quality control. Most of the knocking engines only have one or two bad pistons. If GM knew anything about quality control, only 1 piston out of 1000 would be bad, not 1 out of 8.

Oh well, what can you expect from a company that still can't align doors...

sonjaab

I hate repeating myself
www.tundrasolutions.com
knocking engines,peeling paint
etc.......
NO ONE makes a perfect truck or car !
Nice day in Alexandria Bay NY !!!!
Time to fish.................

h0udini

nobody makes a perfect car or truck. But it's a well known fact some makes are closer to perfection than others and the consumer simply chooses the lesser of two evils. Thanks to you, we've all heard about www.tundrasolutions.com about 100 times now, but what's your point? GMC's problems are tenfold to Toyota's both in number and severity.

sonjaab

Who sells the most trucks ? Sure if you
sell 10x as many. Shouldn't there be
more probs to that brand ?

BTW; Ask ME about my 2 POS toyota
trucks.................
And yup if somebody whos looking for
a flawless toy...They should visit
that site first ! Truth hurts no
matter what brand they end up with !

bamatundra

I am having a hard time trying to find why a lady such as you is posting to Tundra Problems topics. You don't own one.

GM has a very well documented problem with engine knock. While you keep trying to divert attention away from this ugly problem topic, it DOES exist.

I have not made mention of Toyota trucks anywhere in this topic - unless in response to bashes from Tundra wannabees. This is a GM ENGINE KNOCK topic. Some GM owners have not yet realized this.

h0udini

argument about as many times as you've brought up tundrasolutions and it's just as worthless. Elementary level arithmetic dictates percentages (in this case, problem percentages) are unaffected by numbers sold.

I'll pass on your offer to be enlightened about your "2 POS toyota trucks."

sonjaab

But my experience with toyotas were
very painfull...But the bitter taste
remains to this day !
And HEY what about non tundra posters
over there......There are a few guys
posting who own tacos are u yelling
at them too?............Geo

bamatundra

A lady such as yourself should realize that lies told in any forum will be challenged. Sort of like the lies you tell repeatedly about Tundra paint peeling.

I think that if she(Sonja) is real - she will post her source. I predict total silence.

Sort of like I said - some unfortunate GM owners are trying to divert this topic into a Tundra vs. knockerado topic.

If you guys want to start a Tundra vs. Knockerado topic fine - do it!

h0udini

YOU seem to be doing all the yelling, and it's the same thing over and over. Do you really think anybody cares about your experiences with Toyota trucks in this thread? Do you really think people will believe your experiences are indicative of ALL Toyota trucks?

sonjaab

www.tundrasolutions.com

sonjaab

Sure i posted about my pos toyotas
I have posted here about engine knock.
Have had much better luck with my GM
trucks than my toys.......
so why are YOU here ?

sonjaab

Make this the BEST place on the net.
Keep it coming guys!!!!!!!!!

bamatundra

How about this one "If you want a great pair of knockers - buy 2 GMs"

LMFAO!