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Where in my post did I do that?
My point is, it's not just about "muscle car performance", which is the common theme of all your arguments for the Mustang. Some people have other considerations, and really aren't concerned if you can "blow (or suck) their doors off" for the same or less money.
In fact Ford has said itself that Quality is sub standard. In 1987 when I was in College a Ford Mustang LX 5.0 was about $13,000 and at that price it was a good bang for the buck. 25K today seems like alot for a car that has not improved on the raw materials that go into it.
I would take the Z ANY day over a stank, I mean stang.
Quality vs. quantity.
I publically apologize to dohc32 if a previous post addressed to him suggested that quality is an attribute that can only be appreciated by the affluent. I wanted to suggest just the opposite. Frankly, I am impressed everytime I see a young person driving a nice, clean Honda Civic. For the same money, they could have gotten something flashier by Ford or GM that I am sure would "blow the doors off" the Civic. And in five years, they will have twice the residual value for overlooking this infantile urge. Who would you want dating your daughter or working for your company?
Jimxo has it right, Ford Quality is not "Job 1". And it pisses me off that they have the balls to advertise that slogan. Just deliver a product that doesn't rattle when new and fall completely apart in half the time of the Japanese and European competition. They simply can't or choose not to do it.
I am damn proud to be an American. I am damn dissapointed that the auto industry in this country is second rate when it comes to quality.
>>>>Who would you want dating your daughter or working for your company?<<<<<
I guess if I was looking for a Bookkeeper or an Aministrative Assistant, the Civic minded individual might do. But if I was looking for someone who had fire in his belly, ready to think outside of the box and a self starter, I certainly would be more inclined to hire the youngster with the modified Muscle machine. I suspect my daughter, if I had one, would go after the Muscle man in a heart beat ~ LOL. Be interesting to take a pole to find out how many Marines bought Honda Civic's verse Mustangs & Camaros ~ LOL. You a betting man ? Remember you brought the subject up <Grin>.
Enjoy your NSX and keep us posted on it's performance. I don't know anyone who owns one and would be interested to know about your experience. I'm leaning toward a 2003 Viper, when the new model is released. (500Hp/500FtLbs of torque)
Well ford also sold more mustangs than the total combined amount of RX7's, Supra's, and 300z's. That said, I see more 5 to 10 year old Honda civics daily than I do Mustangs. That should tell you something, considering there were also less Civics made(a lot closer to the Mustang production than the Z's, RX7's, Supra's though). The reason they are disapearing is not because of bad reliability. It's their relatively affordable resale value these days. Anyone(inexperienced) can get them, and as a result they're ending up in junk yards.
Let me ask you this dohc32v, would you buy a new Z?
Well I'm very Nationalistic about my auto selections, but I suppose if the 350Z came out with a 400hp + mill and it had a V-8, I would have to give it some serious consideration (if the price were below $50K). Biggest thing in my eyes is the V-8. I have never warmed up to a V-6 or a six of any kind for that matter. That is why IMHO, the NSX has been a fizzle in the market place. I love the rumble, throb and thrust of a V-8. If the NSX had a screaming high reving powerful V-8 in it, and sold for under $100K, it would be a marketing knock out punch for Porche, Mercedes, Ferrai, Viper, you name it. The Z is going to encountered the same market reception of resistance by guys that have been born, raised and always driven V-8's. That IMO is what killed the RX-7's, Supras, Z's and Mitsubishi's, and of course along with an astronomical price tag. V-6's suck canal juice, God intended for all good engines to be V-8's ~ LOL.
So what? There's plenty of people younger than you with the means to buy nice cars.
> Well I'm very Nationalistic about my auto selections...
Really? What with all your "rice cooker" comments, we hadn't noticed.
> Be interesting to take a pole [sic] to find out how many Marines bought Honda Civic's verse [sic] Mustangs & Camaros
What does this have to do with anything? Because Marines protect America, we should buy Mustangs? Because Marines are tough, we should buy Camaros? Should we only buy cars from dealers with Lee Greenwood belting out "God Bless the USA" on the P.A.?
> Biggest thing in my eyes is the V-8
Then why do you keep posting to this group, when you know darn well the 350Z has a six?
Just to get a rise out of you ~ LOL.Take your blood pressure medication <Grin>. Happy New Year to you and others, let us all hope 2002 is a better year than 2001 has been.
With all of your time, energy, and love affair with Ford, why don't you convince them to get their act together with respect to product quality?
Check out the attached for the latest on how they have managed to further screw up Jaguar.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/48463/article.html
P.S. Roadrunnernsx: Be proud that your NSX isn't (and hopefully never will be) trying to compete with the Viper and Corvette. It is Acura's limited production alternative to a Ferrari, M-class, AMG or Porsche 911. If Acura decides to compete with the Corvette, they will need a lot of work on incorporating "rattles" into their designs.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/archives/features/feature01_0202.jsp
http://freshalloy.com/
Now I have a few good website references to all my favorite manufacturers!
Anyways, I found this pucture on another board. The Z car that you posted is quite ugly, but this one is beautiful. Hopefully the real production skyline will loook closer to this:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t19344.html
***Trim 1: STANDARD MODEL (Base)
Suspension:
-independent multi-link
-stabilizer bars: front and rear
-rear strut tower brace
-Steering: engine speed sensitive rack and pinion
Brakes/Wheels/Tires:
-power assisted 11.65" vented front/11.50" vented rear discs
-4-wheel ABS w/ brake assist
-Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD)
-17" x 7.8" 7-spoke alloys
-P225/50WR17 (front) P235/50WR17 (rear) high performance compound
Interior:
-6-way manual driver's seat
-Automatic temp control (ATC)
-160Watt 6 speaker AM/FM/CD (Not BOSE)
-Sunglass storage
-3-bay gauge cluster (oil pressure,voltmeter,trip computer)
-Tilt steering column with integrated gauges
-aluminum accents
-Leather wrapped steering wheel and shift knob
-power windows, doors, mirrors
***Trim 2: "ENTHUSIASTS MODEL"
(Includes Standard equipment mentioned plus...)
-TCS
-Viscous limited slip rear diff
-cruise control
-HID Xenon
-Aluminum Pedals
-Universal transceiver
-dual illuminated visor vanities
-auto dimming rear view mirror
-Standard 6-speed MANUAL / optional 5-speed AUTO w/ manual shift
***Trim 3: "TOURING MODEL"
(Includes Standard equipment mentioned plus...)
-Bose audio 240Watt 6-disc in dash 7-speakers w/ sub
-Leather seats
- 4-way driver power seat / 2-way passenger power seat
-Heated seats
-Heated outside mirrors
-TCS
-limited slip
-Cruise control
-HID XENON
-aluminum pedals
-universal transceiver
-dual lighted vanity
-auto dimming mirror
-Standard 6-speed MANUAL / optional 5-speed AUTO w/ manual shift
*** Trim 4: "PERFORMANCE MODEL"
(Includes Standard equipment mentioned plus...)
-Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)
-tire pressure monitor
-18"x8.0" 6-spoke alloys
P225/45WR18 (front) / P245/45WR18 (rear)
-TCS
-limited slip
-cruise control
-HID XENON
-aluminum pedals
-universal tranceiver
-auto dimming mirror
-dual lighted vanity
-Standard 6-speed MANUAL "ONLY"
***Trim 5: "TRACK MODEL"
(Includes Standard equipment mentioned plus...)
-FRONT AND REAR SPOILERS
-BREMBO Braking system (4-piston caliper with 12.75" vented front and 2 caliper 12.67" vented rear discs)
-RAYS super light-weight 18"x8.0" 6-spoke forged-alloy
-Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)
P225/45WR18 (front) / P245/45WR18 (rear)
-TCS
-limited slip
-cruise control
-HID XENON
-aluminum pedals
-universal tranceiver
-auto dimming mirror
-dual lighted vanity
-Standard 6-speed MANUAL "ONLY"
OPTIONAL on all models:
-Nissan NAV with GPS DVD-ROM 7" LCD (available only on performance , touring, track models)
***Available Colors:
EXTERIOR:
-pikes peak white
-chrome silver (shown at show today)
-silverstone (dark gray)
-super black
-daytona blue
-brickyard (really really dark brown/maroon)
-Redline (super red)
-Le Mans Sunset (concept orange)
INTERIOR:
-Frost Leather (perforated)
-Charcoal Leather (perforated)
-Burnt Orange Leather (perforated)
-Carbon Cloth
Final pricing will be announced January 8 at the Detroit Auto Show.
http://www.nissannews.com/nissan/pr_events/2002/detroit/350z/pricing.html
It is crazy! The Z starts at $26,269 with 280+ hp!
280+ hp starting at $27k is very competitive. This car would have redefined "sports car" at this price range if it came out two years ago. It'll be interesting to see how well it does. How much does it weigh? I'm holding my breath because I've seen some other cars put out stellar numbers despite the HP ratings, lately. An Acura RSX-S routinely hits 60 in a shade over 6 seconds and pulls strongly at all speeds, from a tiny engine. The WRX has a slightly less tiny engine and puts out even better numbers. A part of me thinks I'd rather have an older but stronger 300ZX than the new 350Z. Too bad it's not convertible. Hmmmmm, options.
http://www.ncchelp.org/index.htm
Overall, I was very impressed with the exterior design. The interior design, I was a little put off with the three round instrument pods hung on the steering column, otherwise the over all package was extremely nice. I still regret it is a V-6, but if it is priced in the mid 20's it will be a smashing market success IMO. It definately is an enthusiasts car and a sweet looking offering at that.
Can't wait!
Speed
If this is a 4 v. 6 thing, forget it. There's no comparing a wheezing gerbil powered 4 to the amazing torque of a 6. Especially a Nissan 6. Yummy.
Stephen
A V8 in a Z? Seems a tad heavy. Could work I guess.
Yeah.. I can see the Z with four cylinder now.. it would be called the 240 SX
At this price, every man, woman, and child (of legal driving age) in the developed world will own one! Wow, Nissan wasn't bluffing!!
Well then go to Nissan's website and 'see it'.
http://www.nissannews.com/nissan/pr_events/2002/detroit/350z/pricing.html