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Most electronics have capacitors on the input circuits for filtering, they can store enough power to keep up some memory circuits even in the absence of a conventional power source due to the ultra low requirements. Hence the common instruction to wait 30 minutes after disconnecting the battery. But the writer is saying that another load on the system, such as the brake lights, will cause the caps to give up their stored charge in a hurry.
I can't confirm its true for the Subaru, but it's highly likely.
Steve
-Dave
Michael: I posted a response in another topic, since you also asked there.
-juice
I read about that trick over at NAISOC too, but I think it only works for turboed vehicles. The ECU in our N/A engines can only retard timing to avoid knock, IIRC.
Ken
i am so bummed. i had an '85 GL wagon that was amazing. it had 240000 miles when i hit a deer at about 85 mph and totalled it. may she rest in peace. as for my outback, it is going straight to the auction block. i thought that i would own subarus for the rest of my life. maybe not.
Look on the bright side. 129000 miles, that works out to about $0.20 to a mile over 5 years.
Should have lasted as long as your 240000 miles '85 GL, but $0.20/miles is still money well spent
-Dave
Personally, I've never taken any car I've ever owned that far. I got 86k out of a Datsun and sold it with a slipping clutch. About the same out of a Sprint. 107k out of my Escort GT before it was totalled, but it's clutch was going out too.
Any how, bummer. Did the engine overheat and blow up?
-juice
Also, i bought the car used last fall and I have only put about 5K miles on it, so all things considered it has probably cost me about 2 bucks a mile. I could probably hire a taxi for that much. Also, I know the person who owned it before and probably 95% of the miles were highway miles and the car was maintained very well.
I've looked on the google subaru newsgroup, as well as this one, I've called several mechanics, talked to several other people who have owned outbacks and it is pretty phenomenal how many outbacks are suffering this problem.
I was driving on a remote highway, it was cold and snowing. i pulled over to look at a map and my engine started knocking. I started driving again and within 30 seconds noticed that my temp gage was above 'H'. The rest is pretty much history. It didn't seize up or anything, but for the same amount of money I figured that I should just get a new engine.
When you say the temp gauge "went AWOL", could you clarify? Do you mean it gave you no indication there was a problem, or it just plain didn't work? I tend to watch mine religiously due to this known problem, but maybe that's no help.
I can't speak for all owners obviously, but I think the great disappointment in this failure even at 100K+ miles is due to the fact that many OB owners (especially the '96-'99) previously owned these older GL's that just kept going (at least engine-wise). Our expectations of the brand are high. If it was something less expensive like a water pump, alternator, cv joints, etc. that failed, that's one thing, but when the hg goes, it's big $$$. And, if things overheat and get warped, even bigger $$$.
utahsteve
edit: didn't see post 1380 before I posted this.
Must have owned a bunch of Hondas from the 80s would be my guess.
-mike
The number affected was 8% according to one survey, and mostly those were leaky gaskets, not complete failures like yours.
Any how, call 800-SUBARU3 just to open up a case. They may try to help out financially in some way, it's worth asking.
-juice
the other 4 cars that i have owned:
1988 toyota corolla: currently has about 240K miles, i bought it when it had about 138K miles. i had to put in a new alternator, i chose to replace the timing belt at 180K, tonight she is going to go in for a brake job. she has had 2 tune-ups (spark plugs, spark plug wires, etc.)
1985 subaru GL wagon: bought it at 125K miles, totalled it in a auto/deer colision at about 240K. In that time period she had a timing belt change, replaced water pump and clutch (my girlfriend rides the clutch REAL bad). my best friend drove it head on into a tree at about 15 mph and the radiator miraculously survived. a lot of hard miles on skiing and climbing trips and she never let me down.
1984 Toyota pickup: bought at 150K sold to friend at about 220K. i don't remember if i ever replace anything on this beast. my friend totalled it within 6 months.
1986 Honda Civic: bought at 120K, sold it at 210K to same friend as above and I think he sold it a couple years later.
I drive about 50K a year for work and play, so I can't really afford to lease a car or buy a new one. I had bought the outback for my girlfriend and we used it as a weekend car. we just split up and she couldn't afford to keep it, so i got it. i figured it would be my weekend car for the next 10years.
Also, regarding the 8% failure rate, that is completely unacceptable. Especially considering that a head gasket should be at least a 3 sigma component, and subaru prides themselves on their quality management program. i've read that the outbacks are made in america, that might partially explain the problem. thanks everybody for the support and not flaming me for my complaining. i'm just really sad.
Even so, mine has just 41k miles. My clutch slave cylinder is leaking, though that's a cheap fix. The valves are a bit loud. It runs fine, but I'll be happy to get 129k out of it.
Do you know if it's the gaskets? If so, you could put her back together, assuming the valves are OK, and use a part number from more recent 2.5l engines (say, 2003). I have not seen any gasket failures from 2002-2003 vehicles out of the ones I've seen reported.
We're sad to see a Subie go to the grave, too. I'd love to joing the 1/4 million mile club.
-juice
Greg
All mid-80s era Japanese cars.
Nuff said. They don't make them like that anymore, period end of story. If you believe ANY car produced today will last as long, i've got a bridge to sell you real cheap. You are living in a totally different era!
-mike
I think today's cars are more durable than the mid 80s cars due to advances in everything from assembly technique to metallurgy. I think what's changed is that the internet makes us all aware of failures we previously were ignorant of. We all participate in these boards, and generally the things of interest involve failures. Indeed, these are magnets for people who have problems to get on and rant. So, I think the profile of the failures has been raised in the eyes of the typical motorist as opposed to their being more absolute failures.
Interestingly, in a multi year test of the most durable cars in the world at GM during the 80s, a 1987 Honda Prelude outlasted them all - from Mercedes S class to Caprice Taxi Cab. This despite having the crap beat out of it by the test drivers who were - you guessed it - Japanese hating UAW members.
IdahoDoug
Here's an example. The 1998 CR-V was one of the very best cars in the CR survey this year. So you could expect those to last 300k miles with zero problems, right?
Well, read up here on Edmunds, and you'll find that hard to believe. They even nick-named the most common complaint, "PTTR", for pull to the right. Alignment seems to be real tricky. You'll find complaints of clunky RT4WD engagement, driveline noises, overall noise levels, shifters that go past "D" when you shift, poor tires, lack of passing power, check engine lights, etc.
You'd come out thinking it was a horrible car, but not so, it's still among the best in terms of reliability.
People that are not happy are far more likely to speak up, seek out a forum like this one.
-juice
Greg
-juice
Also, think the hot spots / warpage on my brakes are back. Ughh, 3rd time. Maybe I'll just install Brembo brakes.
Greg
BTW, my 41K miles black bean looks good dirty or not (well, definitely better not...)...
My front rotors/pads now have 20K miles and no repeat of hot spots/warping. Subaru needs to press their suppliers on quality...
Remote start died this week :-(
Ralph
I'll wait another month or so to make sure and then bring it in. If they fix it again without charging me, I will praise this dealer to all.
Greg
P.S. That's WEAR not WERE! Time for a cup of coffee.
Lifelong Asian vehicle buyers have been conditioned to have nearly zero failures and also go nuts over the same power lock failure, so the deck's stacked against the Asian mfrs in terms of complaint volume when one happens (rare).
We used to study this phenomenon and it led to all kinds of humorous market segmentation titles that decorum prevents mentioning here. Jaguar owners were the most comical. A typical owner would rate their cars as "excellent" in terms of reliability after 24 months of ownerships. Then we'd cross ref their VIN with service surveys and discover they'd had the diff bearings fail, 3 "no starts", a power steering failure, and the rear power windows were not working over this same time period. People don't like to admit they've bought a piece of junk in surveys. We switched to just using the reported absolute number of failures per 100 vehicles after that. Somewhere, I have saved a list of every single nameplate in the entire US market (something north of 250) ranked by this simple but telling measure. No domestic vehicle was in the top third and no Japanese vehicle was in the bottom third....
IdahoDoug
IdahoDoug
If so, does the steering actually feel like the AWD system is binding? If it's binding, the car may have a problem with the transfer clutch, duty-C soleniod or have a groove worn in the extension housing. I had the binding problem in my '96 Legacy Outback automatic.
It could also be caused by tires that are mismatched or unevenly worn.
DaveM
Steve
I just purchased Yokohamas from Tirerack for my Sienna. Nice tires.
Greg
Can anyone give me some diagnosis advice on how to troubleshoot my A/C. It is blowing ambient temperature air out of the vents when I have the A/C button activated and the lever fully to the cold side.
The fuse in the fuse box in the engine compartment looks good but I don't know how to test the relays. (Side question: Why are there 4 relays).
With the engine running and the A/C turned on, I popped the hood and the compressor was not engaged. The belt is fine and turning the compressor, but the clutch is not engaged.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Alan
98 OBW Ltd
Greg
On the A/C - the most likely scenario is the low freon switch has activated to protect your expensive compressor. Your most productive move would be to have the system recharged for around $80 as it should have this done by now anyhow. If it turns out to be something else (unlikely), at least you've gotten this service out of the way.
IdahoDoug
Subaru said some rear suspension components were manufactured with poor paint quality, resulting in possible corrosion from road salts. The recall is for cars only in the "salt belt" states in the Midwest, Northeast and mid-Atlantic regions of the United States.
An estimated 170,000 cars are affected, manufactured from May 1, 1999, to April 30, 2002. Owners will be notified in late June and early July. The affected components will be inspected and rustproofed free of charge.
No accidents or injuries have been reported; the problem was found in Subaru's quality assurance testing.
-mike
The front pads were replaced and the front rotors turned within the past few months (by the previous owner) but it appears nothing was done to the rears. My question: what is the sound that the pads make as the wear warning? Is it a ringing/squealing sound? Or is it a groaning or grinding? Or something else?
--K9Leader
Does my subie know that I just got my first SubaruBucks $100 certificate and wants some TLC now??? I know there are numerous sensors in these vehicles but I don't think that they have documented the "Full Wallet Sensor" in my Haynes manual
Alan
98 OBW Ltd
LOL paisan, I remember that recall. Wonder if our 2002 L is affected.
-juice
If you had the brakes recently serviced, it is more likely that the pads and backing shims are just vibrating slightly and making the ruckus. Sometimes some backing grease will help to quell the movement that induces the sounds. But get them checked anyhow to be sure....
Steve
There is still some occasional braking squeal, but very minor, and does appear to be coming from the fronts, which are not ceramics, so will just have to be lived with until the next brake job. The ringing/whistling sound while driving is still there but much less frequent -- before it was maybe 30% of the time, and now it is maybe 5%. Hard to figure out exactly where it is coming from -- front or back? left or right? Maybe I need to strap myself to the roof rack and get my wife to take us out for a spin!
--K9Leader
2000 OB Ltd. wagon
I can actually picture the roof rack idea! ;-)
-juice
Looking for help and advice, John had already placed a call to a private foreign shop nearby, that by coincidence I have used as well. I once worked with the shop owners wife, and know that she drives a '00 OBW. The owner told John that he has replaced blown gaskets on several late model Subi's (assume Ej-25's). Always cylinder #4 (I am not sure - is that the rear drivers side???). He reported that there is usually little damage, but that for some reason the head bolts seem to loosen up here more than others. (Sounds to me like some unusual thermal cycling at this corner of the engine??). He even suggested head bolt retorque as a possible routine maintainance to prevent this from happening. (This does not look like a bad suggestion - remove spark plug wires and crankcase breather tube, remove valve cover and torque head bolts???).
Anyhow, more as the story progresses. My first suggestion was to open a case with SoA and appeal for help as it seems the dealer is looking to maximize profit on this one.
Steve
If he stopped before things got too hot, it shouldn't be too bad, but from what the dealer is saying that's probably not the case.
I would call 800-SUBARU3 and plead my case, 70k is just out of warranty, maybe they'll split the cost. Or get a price quote from an indy mechanic that charges less.
Tom: pretty clever, come to the problems topic to uncover the real issues! :-)
Any how, wheel bearing issues affected Imprezas before 2002 and Foresters before 2003, but not Legacys or Outbacks.
Although if you're going to test drive a car that is more than 5 years old, and it has not happened already, it probably won't. Turn off the radio, open the windows, listen for any strange noises that change pitch with speed. If it's quiet, the bearings should be good.
Next thing to check is the head gaskets and front seal. Sounds complicated? No, actually it couldn't be simpler. Peek under the car, look at the block towards the sides. There should be no oil stains where the gaskets are. Also look at the front portion of the engine block for any oil stains.
Make sure if it's a clutch that it operates smoothly.
Go over those 3 areas and you've hit the most common problem areas.
BTW, don't think that Honda and Toyota don't have their own set of issues too. Honda has had 24,000 auto tranny failures across several model lines, and Toyota has 3 million engines on the road succeptible to oil sludge.
-juice
Greg
P.S. I am an incurable optimist.
I know we'll never agree on this, but I think Toyota's response was to deny, lie, deceive, lose in court, and then finally realize it would cost more to continue denying the problem existed, so finally they caved in to an already lost cause.
That was their real response.
-juice (incurable conspiracy theorist?)
PS Cylinder 10? They sell H10s now? I want one! :-)
OK, maybe not.
Greg
thanks