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Now I always bring my car back to Exchange even though they are quiet far away from my home because it is a big SAAB ONLY site. The site is beautiful, large, and more up-scale. It is not liked a "local" dealership. Service people there are nice and knowledge. I always reserve a loaner car for major services. I got a new 9-5 one time.
Linear-Launch, Touring, Heated seats, Auto -$27.6K +TTL, put me in the low 29's drive-out. (end of month purchase Jan)
VERY Nice Car..I wonder how long its gonna take to figure out all the quirks everyone talks about.
Compared to A4 1.8t CVT, Passat GLX auto.
Price point for all were 28K. Germans have the transmission down, both were way smoother than the 9-3 (turbo lag/sentronic-fraction slow to shift at times), but if I'm correct the transmission on the 9-3 is also from germany. Interior styling was highest in the Passat. A4 best overall handling. I felt though the 9-3 had everything else though, plus the deal. Definitely exterior styling, safey rating and technical amenities more in the 9-3. It's always good to be a little different too. Basically it was splitting hairs on which one.
Thanks for all the info and tips...I think I got a pretty good deal. I might try this next time too...I cold called the finance guy to explain lease options, GM Smartbuy etc. etc. then inadvertently found out about the discounts....still not sure I got all of 'em but I think they only made minimal on the car.
I'm thinking about the Arc at $27,000 with GMO and rebates vs. a 325i with European Delivery at about $28,000 ($1500 over ED invoice).
Any comments?
BTW, according to the sticker, the transmission is actually made in Japan! I believe the engine is made in Germany, though, Saab-engineered Opel/Vauxhall.
hungshy: Was the 9-3 with the leather armrest an Arc? The Linears I have looked at have a fabric leather armrest. However, I think there is, or will be, an accessory to replace it with a vinyl or leather armrest. It's hard to tell at www.SaabCatalog.com because they don't make it fully clear if some accessories are for the 9-3 Sports Sedan.
fedlawman: IMHO, with pre-GMO discounts, the 9-3 is a European sedan bargain. With GMO, it's even more so. The only risks I see are potential first-year reliability issues, though it's important to note that the previous 9-3 and the current 9-5 are actually better than average, at least according to Consumer Reports.
That all said, if I could get a comparably-equipped 325i for the same price, I'd get that instead. The 9-3 may be the best-handling FWD sedan out there (the FWD A4 may be the only challenger). But the RWD 325i is simply going to provide more fun and refinement if your interest is in a sports sedan. Of course, there are other factors to consider like interior room, level of luxury, etc.
Similarly, if it wasn't for the sharp 9-3 discounts, I'd probably buy an A4 quattro.
I thought you preferred the G35, though. Have you soured on it, or is it the relatively high asking price compared to discounted vehicles?
I'm planning on purchasing sometime this week, I'll post the results when they happen. As for the friend I mentioned before, she's holding off for the arc and wants to compare it to the A4(played out i say) and the g35 sedan(no point unless you get the coupe right?) beats me... but looks like I'm going in alone.
One last thing: I want the laser red but I've only seen the color on a convertible. What are your opinions on the red? If not red, I will go with the black.
Are all of the 9-3 convertibles turbos?
Are they reliable or should I get the aftermarket warranty?
Anything to lookout for while making the purchase?
My friend offered me a 1999 convertible Automatic 36,000 miles for $13,500. It's a very nice car and I'm considering it carefully.
Yeah, they all have been turbos for a while. They have come in 185, 205 and 230HP flavors. You can get them all up to 230HP easily with aftermarket products that aren't all that expensive.
> Are they reliable or should I get the
> aftermarket warranty?
The engine is supposed to be a longevity wonder. The car is a dated design, which has pros and cons: it's proven and sorted out, but it is also flexier than some more recent designs.
> Anything to lookout for while making the
> purchase?
The major issue seem to be interior squeaks and rattles. Drive the car, and not only over rpistine pavement, to see if you can live with that. Mind you, most queaks and rattles can be fixed, but they'll eventually turn up again.
I got an '02 SE convertible, full spec, last year and have loved it. It is quirkier and an acquired taste, but I like the unique value proposition a lot. New as it is, the dealer had to fix several squeaks in the interior.
Ride comfort is of course an extremely subjective thing. The 9-3 doesn't ride as comfortably as, say, a Passat, but it doesn't have the Passat's body roll or softness in corners.
What kind of tires were on the vehicles you've driven? E.g. some 9-3's have the Pilot Sport HX MXM4's, which are pretty good (not great, though), but they are a bit noisey and do affect ride comfort. Some dealerships, but not all, will let you swap tires, e.g. for Michelin MXV4+'s.
Finally, proper tire inflation helps too. It's amazing how many dealer demos aren't inflated correctly.
That all said, though, the vehicle does ride firmly and I can see your concerns with ride comfort.
It does have trade-offs, however. The A4 has some pros and cons over the 9-3.
- Smaller on the inside; especially the rear seat and trunk.
- First-year reliability not good.
- European crash test scores good but not as good as the 9-3.
- No anti-whiplash head restraints.
- With the automatic and quattro, the 1.8T strains to really move the vehicle; lots of folks opt for the manual or have to go to the more expensive 3.0.
+ More luxurious and refined inside than the 9-3.
+ Better resale.
+ More prestige if that matters to the buyer.
+ quattro makes a big difference, for sure-footedness if you live in a colder climate, and nice handling even if you don't.
+ Scheduled maintenance for 4 years instead of 3 IIRC.
+ Available in a wagon (Avant) trim).
Ultimately it comes down to price, though. I think the way Saab has MSRP'ed the 9-3 means that discounts are inevitable, as I don't think that most mainstream buyers will buy a same-priced 9-3 over an A4 (especially if one can get quattro at a similar price). But Saab dealers are aggressively discounting so we all win, and the 9-3 thus stands out really well vs. the A4.
I remember the speed and the cornering of the G35, but I just can't remember well enough to compare the tightness, refinement, or comfort of the G35 vs. the BMW's I have recently driven.
The BMW's just have this feeling of oneness, of supreme confidence and competence that I have not experienced in many cars before.
Before I make a final decision, I will need to drive the G35 and 9-3 Arc back to back with the BMW to truly decide where my priorities lie.
And I must admit, if I go for the BMW, I don't know if I'll settle for the 325i, so I'm probably looking at $35K for a 330i...which is a little more expensive than the 9-3 or G35.
Decisions, decisions...
Agreed that a back-to-back test is in order. Perhaps when the Arc hits the showrooms Real Soon Now.
BTW, besides Carter Saab in Seattle, and Barrier Saab in Bellevue, you may or may not have heard that a third Saab dealership is opening up in Fife. It'll be a Cadillac/Saab dealership, an interesting combination that does reflect the corporate roots.
I went to Bellevue Saab for my Linear test drive and thought the salespeople were uninformed, and rather low quality. Traffic in and out of Bellevue is a nightmare too...and what's up with that trailer they have for a "showroom?"
Also, I remember the Infiniti salesman told me they are opening a Tacoma dealership too...probably in Fife as well, I'm guessing. That's a plus because I wouldn't want to go to Kirkland every time I need service.
You're right about the BMW though. I plan on keeping this car for a long time and want to be completely satisfied. BMW offers tangible superiority in performance and general road worthiness, something I'm willing to pay a premium for...to a certain extent.
I have seen one new red 9-3. I thought the car looked very good in red. The red is as rich and lustrous as any I have seen south of Ferrari. Red really brings out the clean lines of the new design.
Be warned, it is very bold. The car will definitely be noticed. I am leaning toward the dolphin with the parchment interior myself.
I had a negative experience with Carter Saab and am still working on my letter to the dealership/Saab USA. BTW, Carter is in a ramshackle old building with about four customer spots (!) but they are moving to a new building (along with their VW dealership).
Yes, if you're planning to keep your sports sedan for a long time, you definitely should be happy with it. I suspect the BMW, and maybe the G35, would be the best route to it. Only other vehicle is the MB C230K Sedan but that is not cheap.
In my own situation, I've decided to lease a 9-3 for a number of reasons. I'm willing to overlook some of its negatives (e.g. less luxury in the Linear, concerns over long-term reliability) since, worse case, it's just three years.
However, the C230K Sedan is relatively expensive when you equip it, and there are no incentives yet. So it was out of my price range.
Overall, the vehicles I was most interested in were separated by $2k-$3k apiece (once equipped to the level i wanted):
- VW Passat
- Saab 9-3 Sports Sedan Linear
- Audi A4 1.8T quattro
- MB C230 Kompressor Sports Sedan
And IMHO, the equation was Passat < 9-3 < A4 < C230K SS.
My neighbor got one of it. The more I look the more I feel luck for didn't go for it.
about the incentives I found that in other discuss room someone got $2500 off the MSRP for 2002 model when he bought it at 2002.
Yes, for RWD on c230 is great on corning. Then I do the same thing on 9-3 I don't feel much different.
about the 9-3 accessries cat. I picked up from dealer, it's new. Still not many of them, but there are some new feature you can add in on the 9-3.
If "new" visitors to this site go back to the early December posts there is alot of discussion similiar to what is happening now, ie Audi, BMW, Mercedes v 9-3. I test drove all of the above. I just happen to be a idiosyncratic Saab guy. . . lets see I've had my car for 2 months and I've seen exactly one other 9-3 on the road. I've seen in that time thousands of the others. . . In the end, go with your "gut feeling" and I hope you look forward to getting into your car. Anything over 28K you deserve that much!
One way or the other, irrational aspects weigh very heavily when it comes to buying a car, and rationalizing it too much becomes very tedious.
The only thing that matters is that you're happy, and that the car isn't plagued by issues (even though some people put up happily with them if the car choice is irrational enough to start with... I know a friend with Mercedes CL600 that has his car in the shop for some serious malfunction once a month, and yet loves it)...
Seriously, though, I doubt if any vehicle purchase decision is made on purely rational grounds. Especially a European sedan in the U.S., when there are usually cheaper and/or more reliable Japanese and domestic alternatives.
The harder part is picking from the array of excellent European vehicles. Sometimes the gut feel will tell you (as I suspect it will for fedlawman if the price is reasonable), sometimes it won't if you find the vehicles close in your passions.
Saab obviously can't rely on its hard-core fan base and stay in business, so it was crucial that they created a vehicle that fits mainstream requirements too. They have succeeded.
I think the 9-3 gets close to the MB in terms of safety, which is saying a lot. And the 9-3 arguably exceeds the Volvo S60 in that department too. All this and sporty handling at a great price!
Some dealers will still have, or can get a hold off (through swaps), 9-3's with the Launch Package, however.
The $2,595 Launch Package consists of:
- Saab Infotainment Audio (150 watt)
- In Dash 6 Disc CD Changer
- Exterior Color Matched Trim
- 16" wheels with P215/55R16H tires
- Power Driver's Seat
- Power Sunroof
Saab will offer a $995 "Driver's Package" which will have:
- Saab Infotainment Audio (150 watt)
- In Dash 6 Disc CD Changer
- Power Driver's Seat
As for the stuff it doesn't include, the sunroof package costs another $1,100. I think you can get the 16" wheels and tires from Saab, and if not, from the dealer.
So you can pretty much get the equivalent of the Launch Package after it's gone. It remains to be seen what kind of discount will be offered then, but I'll bet there'll be something to keep the Linear under the Arc.
So we'll see the different is the point,"Exterior Color Matched Trim" wont be exist.
Later, Linear will be looked like linear not Arc.
Yeah, the t still not equal to the T.
The following is what I received from Saab:
Thank you for contacting Saab!
In the U.S. we will offer the navigation system in model year 2004. We made the decision to wait until model year 2004 rather than offer it in the middle of the current model year. Bluetooth was expected to be offered at the same time as the navigation system but it is delayed. We were going to take Bluetooth at the beginning of the 2004 model year. That timeline looks to be accuate.
Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.
Thanks Again,
Steve
Saab Cars USA
Usually, Saab introduces its next year models around late September early October.
Interesting is that if I choose the MB i will probably buy it. If i choose the Saab, almost certainly a lease.
There is one additional doc. I read from net which is good to share. It's about car safety issue.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5693
The only dilemma is the colors. It stems from the fact that I'm a 21 short asian girl at only 5'4- i don't want to look like a 16 yr old kid in her mom's car, on top of that I need to consider the weather here in chicago.
So, no white(it'll look gray all winter), the cosmic blue looks nice but it's too much of a guy's color, black will be hard to maintain in such weather and it may look like my mom's car again.
That leaves me with: laser red, maroon, dolphin gray(a bit masculine), dark silver(silvers aren't my first choices), and silver.
I'm very partial to the red tones and I would go with that choice except, for the laser, I don't know how well non-metallic colors hold up in Chicago weather. And the maroon would also be nice, although again it may seem like an older person's car. With both red tones, I have to consider the disadvantages of higher insurance also. Please input.
i know i've mentioned the laser red matter before but it's the last thing I need to decide on before i go to purchase and it's driving me crazy. I know it's a bit annoying that I'm posting about my lil color problems but your opinions will be greatly appreciated.
merci beaucoup.
-renee-
I think the dolphin gray is sharp, but I am a 36 y.o. guy, so our cools are going to diverge.
I say you should go with the laser red. The 9-3 really looks good in laser red. And assuming you have either brown or black hair, the color will match your appearance.
As long as you wax and wash properly, modern paint will hold up well. It is good to be mindful of insurance costs. But the 9-3 is a solid 4 cyl. car with abs and other standard safety features. You should be able to get a pretty decent rate.
a bien tot
(Yes, my poor 9-3 has been idle [but not idling <grin>] in the garage all that time. Got to take it for a drive before I get flat spots on the tires. Heh heh.)
-The arm rest (leather vs. fabric) is interesting. They really need to fix this. It is like sandpaper. Leather, (good) plastic, or pleather would be fine by me.
-Is it worth getting the engine block heater (I’m in the Midwest, where it is cold as all heck)? If so, what about the timer option that plugs into the Saab computer? Anyone have this? It seems cheap enough (relatively speaking, considering that most car manufacturers charge you $150 [plus labor]) for a replacement reading light bulb).
-I’ve had a few (more) E-mails with a nice guy at Saab USA. While he didn’t give me all the answer I wanted, he did give me honest and true answers which is always helpful. He told me
-“The instructions for the programming of the Daytime Running Lights should be sent to the dealerships by the end of the month [January.]” I see some of you have had it done already, so I’m guessing that the dealers do indeed know how to do this. He also told me that when in “default” mode (from the factory) the Bi-Xenon lights are used for normal, high-beam, and flash-to-pass. However, if you re-code it so they work the “normal” way we are used to, there is a bulb (halogen, not Bi-Xenon) that gets used for flash-to-pass. This bulb is unused (dormant) in the “default” mode. Funky, eh?
-My comments concerning the comma (versus a period as the delimiter in the odometer) and the shift up warning (how annoying it is, and that I want it disabled) were “shared with the master technicians, who work closely with Saab in Sweden.” Not sure if they plan on fixing these annoyances, but at least they know.
-As for the fact that some literature shows the Linear having the (auto) rain sensor, he told me, “I have done some research for the rain sensor. Unfortunately it is only available on the Arc and Vector. The original plan was to include it in the Touring package for the Linear, but based on customer comments it was decided to add the Automatic Climate Control instead of the Rain Sensor. Unfortunately that was not removed as an option on the forms, but was not included in the description of the Touring package next to the Saab Forms section. We apologize for that misprint.”
-His reply to my complaint about the very poor quality of the radio (rear speakers and poor power output) was interesting. I asked him if and when the radio was going to be “fixed” and his reply was, “I do not know what is being done concerning the radio or the timeline. When a decision is reached, owners will be notified. I am sorry that I cannot provide any additional information on that concern.” That would make me believe they are aware of the problem and are considering doing something to fix this flaw. I would suggest all of your write Saab USA and express your concerns. I drove many cars that were much cheaper and had way better radios, which is bad. The good thing is that Saab can easily fix this if they wanted to make us happy.
-Lastly, and one of my biggest pet peeves was the (un)Infotainment system. I still feel that there is no difference between the cheap radio and the “upgraded” Infotainment system not to mention Bluetooth (they even have a commercial on their web site showing a guy using Bluetooth). I think my question was something to the effect of how is the basic radio any different than the more expensive Infotainment system. His reply was, “The integrated keypad on the Infotainment system is to allow the user to enter a code if they are trying to check voice mail, or similar activities. As of now, it is only designed to work with the On-Star system. Saab does not have a way to integrate a personal phone system in, as the electronics do not allow for dual codes. (Similar to having to purchase a new phone if you change wireless carriers because the phone is not compatible with the rest of the system.) It has been decided not to offer the Bluetooth technology until the 2004 model year as to not have two versions of the 2003 9-3.”
Funny you mentioned that you felt that Cosmic Blue was a guy's color. This is purely personal viewpoint and one that I don't mean to offend anyone, but I feel that the Cosmic Blue is somewhat of a "girly" color.
The Steel Gray is nice, very unique, and so is the Dolphin Gray, but I agree they're more masculine colors.
The idea is that if these actually happen, it would occur when current Linear owners return to the dealer to get the Onstar upgrade installed. There was also mention of a redesigned butterfly cup holder because of complaints of flimsiness.
Whether or not these items are true remain to be seen. It'd be nice if Saab took the effort to support its early 9-3 SS customers.
Though I don't think a software upgrade to the stereo will do too much.
The SaabUSA catalogue shows a vinyl armrest that sells for 68$; perhaps the dealers are replacing the fabric with these instead of the cars being output this way from the factory
.
needashave: I will be financing with the 0-0-0 and I'm thinking of buying with The Exchange's internet manager.
Perillo seemed flaky and didn't give me a quote but bounced the question around with excuses.
Flikemma asked for too much although they were very attentive- they seem to value customer satisfaction a lot. Gartner would be my second choice if the Exchange doesn't work out for some reason, plus Gartner gave me a competitive first quote.
As for Patrick's, after you told me about their lack of linear's with launch pkgs, I didnt even contac them. I figure even if they had what I wanted, it'd be harder to negotiate a lower price. If you have any other questions you're always welcome to email me.
Thanks for all the comments about my color problem everyone. I'll post a pic of my car when I finally get it in my garage, that way you can all see which color I picked and how it looks
The Exchange is near my Dad and sibling's home. When the Arc hits the dealers, I will probably be at the Exchange. I'll check out Gartner's too.
I'm guessing Saab USA reads this board (and if they don't, the marketing VP should be fired for not doing their homework) and have a good idea of what we think.
It'd be nice if we could get some more firm answers or dates for stuff, but then again, even where I work, we're not exactly perfect at handing out answers or dates. =8)
have fun in your shortly abandoned ride
As I said in my E-mail, I'm sure they made some money. They'd be dumb to sell the car at loss. After all, isn't that the objective of almost any business? Make as much money as possible.
On the flip side, a few dollars is better than nothing. Plus, they were able to move the car off the lot, which is a big deal. With new orders coming all the time, it is very expensive to keep cars sitting around.
How can you do this? I'd just call the fleet manager and say, "Hi, I'm <your name here>, I want to buy a Saab 9-3 with the following options, etc. I am willing to give you $x profit, and if you are willing to do the deal, I'll come down today and sign the paper work."
Be sure you are very specific about the exterior color, interior color, and all options. They may not be able to find your exact car, but one similar. If so, you'll need to readjust your price.
The willingness of the dealer to meet your price will depend on a lot of things, and I do not think all will give up the full holdback amount, so be practical. Even if you can get the car at invoice, it is a good deal. In the end, $706 isn't exactly a ton of money. If you can't get the holdback, but you really like the car, you'll just fork up the extra money. I would have if I had to.
for an auto, non-metallic, launch, heated seats linear using 0-0-0, it'll be $26,900. I'm hoping to ask for a couple hundred off of that- there's something fishy about the quote coming out so easily.
I find this a pretty good deal, maybe I can ask for the touring package for $27,300, but I get the feeling I'm being greedy.
As for the exchange, I'll call back one more time to see if they'll contest the gartner quote or else i think it'll be gartner i shop at.