Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
But for $25k you're mostly stuck with wrong-wheel drive.
-juice
Wait!! Toyota Tacoma with a cap!! Oops, handling and ride.. never mind..LOL
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Yeah, 9-2x will be AWD.
I refer to FWD as "wrong wheel drive" because I personally don't care much for it.
There aren't really any RWD-for-a-bugdet sporty cars. The Nissan 240SX is gone.
I guess some might include the Mustang, but the new one still doesn't even get an indy rear until you get to the Cobra, which again is pricey.
There will be an A3 quattro soon.
-juice
It's my 2nd car.
-juice
- Exterior: I like it a lot. It's easily the most successful of the new age BMW's and recaptures that BMW sense of "speeding while standing still," a sporty focus that the 7 and 5 series lack for me but is a hallmark of the current 3-series. It's really, REALLY too bad the 4 door hatch isn't coming here, as it was my long term plan for a daily driver to own one day in future (would make a great CPO vehicle). Will Canada get them? Do Americans really want 2-door 2-series sedans more than 4 door sport hatches? Does Mazda know something else here everyone else doesn't?
- Interior: I like the overall design theme greatly, as the Z4-esque "intense ergonomics" of the tight gauge binnacle and narrow console seem to be the opposite of the way some makers (like Audi, for example) are going. I love the chrome shifter and start button as well. The plastic quality looks somewhat X3-iffy and there is, of course, I-drive there. I wonder if by American standards this car would feel really, really small, maybe even "feel" smaller than a Focus (with its high roof and set back dash).
- Mechanics: The power, for a car of its size, seems quite good actually. Has anyone seen estimated performance numbers?
- Price: The wild card here, with the Euro and all. I can see Americans paying $22,000 for a loaded Mazda 3 sport hatch (which is nearly identical to this car in mission and focus), but would Americans pay near 30K? Interesting question... It appears that BMW doesn't want to even go there, unfortunately...
- Bret
Two 4 cyl. engines: double-Vanos with Valvetronic has 150 bhp, lesser version on the 116i (no Valvetronic?) has 115bhp.
Transmission: 5 speed on 116i, 6 speed on higher output version.
It's a pain in the neck to sift through the naviation on the newsletter site and it's vague anyway, but some other details are aluminum front axle, multi link rear, dynamic stability control, electronic brake force, xenon headlights, 1100 litre cargo room (30 or so ft.) with seats folded. Looks like Idrive with nav is an option.
No pricing and no dates.
Those are the highlights. I had to list my home address when I registered, so I don't know why I'd be getting the Euro specs.
I still think it is just plain silly for the NA market to miss this car - why there is a perceived audience for the Mini, the upcoming A3, the Golf [which can reach into the low 20's], but not this car, is beyond me. All this hoo-hah about our market "rejecting" hatchbacks is so much baloney - if the alleged "failure" of the 318ti is the issue [and I don't concede it was a failure at all], then analyze its shortcomings - the hatchback body was hardly the issue - it needed more power, and looked a bit odd to some eyes because of the "chopped" feel of the body - but the fact that it was a hatch instead of a sedan sounds ludicrous as the reason this car didn't sell well. Whatever...
The Porsche Cayenne needed a sophisticated SUV market to be appreciated, and it has surpassed all other Porsche sales...
The hatch is seeing a minor revival, but BMW is in the once bitten, twice shy mode right now. They have a lot of unresolved issues...like can they bring the US enough power to satisfy our hungers and still keep the price low enough to get out away from safer choices like SUVs, coupes and sedans?
Will the US adopt a sporty sedan that is smallish, like we did the Acura TSX? (aka Honda Accord made for the rest of the world)
Maybe what BMW needs to do is release it in the US as a Mini...it would fire off the charts then, and at a premium price!
Toyota/Lexus did it to us with the IS300...why not BMW doing it to us with the 1-series...
What would they call it then?
The Mini...
This would have been a better US strategy, IMO. Too bad the calls were made years ago when the car went into development, and the success of Mini in the US was a marketing plan in the making, not a reality.
Ask MB how well they're doing with that miserable C coupe. About as well as BMW did with the ti.
If there were a market for hatches, we'd see them everywhere. The fact is hatches have becomes pretty rare. Acura has one. Toyota's got one and another on the way. Nissan has one. Mitsu one.
Any lux brands beyond BMW? Maybe you could call the lambo and modena hatches?
The wagon looks good and 2 or 4 door models would probably look good also.
I'd get the wagon if it had enough power and a usable back seat.
I would have to see and drive one to know if it would meet my needs.
Heck, about 20 years ago, not a single manufacturer was in a hurry to build a new SUV for the market...now everyone of them has one, wants one, or is busy making more of them.
fads, fashion, and reality all play roles in things. As gas gets more expensive and we get more and more congested in our big cities, it is only a reality that hatches will grow in popularity...I like them, always have, though I must be strange for that reason...
I don't think a car needs a trunk to be consider luxurious...besides, hatches are tons more useful than a sedan of the same size...the Matrix, Vibe, and Mazda hatches are all doing just fine.
The C230 is sharp...I see one around my parts almost everyday...I like that little bugger.
Ford produced more green F150s on Thursdays than Mini does all year.
-juice
The Mini is not a luxury car. It's a sporty unreliable econobox.
Heck, about 20 years ago, not a single manufacturer was in a hurry to build a new SUV for the market...now everyone of them has one, wants one, or is busy making more of them.
SUVs were popular 20 years ago. Hatches were too. One fell out of favor.
As gas gets more expensive and we get more and more congested in our big cities, it is only a reality that hatches will grow in popularity...I like them, always have, though I must be strange for that reason...
To each his own. Hatch to me signals cars from the likes of Toyota, Honda, GM.
I don't think a car needs a trunk to be consider luxurious...besides, hatches are tons more useful than a sedan of the same size...the Matrix, Vibe, and Mazda hatches are all doing just fine.
Again you bring up cruddy econoboxes. Great Ford sells oodles of Focus variants, guess every manufacturer should move to producing substandard egg-shaped, recall-hungry little FWDers.
A hatch offers a sizable upside in space. I don't buy my cars for space in the trunk or for storage space. You know what's in the back of my BMW? A cargo net. The back of my Protege? A window wiper. That's it. Two cars, neither trunk has anything in them. Why the heck would I need 10 more cubic space? I don't.
We're all different and for some of us trunk space has zero bearing on the purchase of a vehicle. I bought both my cars because they were fun to drive.
You can buy them for a song. Go for it.
just where do you get this information? The MINI problems board here on Edmunds has a whopping 110 posts in almost 2 years of existence. And nowhere near all of those posts are problems.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
It might (just maybe) be more significant to compare the # of posts in complaints to the # of posts in the regular threads.
Even then, no. People come to the Subaru Problems threads to find out why their lights are on, but dim (it's the parking light switch on the top of the steering wheel). 5 posts later that wasn't really a problem.
-juice
There is only one vehicle made that is more trouble prone than the mini: the H2. The Mini had the dubious distinction of being the most trouble-prone car sold last year. It beat out Korean makes.
Check JD Power. The Mini is a rolling piece of garbage. Cute and fun but still a very poorly made car.
"On May 6, the highly regarded J.D. Power & Associates survey of initial quality ranked the Mini 25th of 28 brands, with 166 consumer complaints per 100 vehicles sold, compared with an industry average of 133 complaints."
http://ad-rag.com/104350.php
The H2 is unreliable because it's inefficient with fuel. Gimme break #2.
That source isn't really that credible, if you ask me.
-juice
and juice, you're right about the number of posts. But I do watch the MINI boards here and there are many more posts on the general MINI board (about 1800 now) and I just don't see that many complaints. I actually see alot more on the new TL board and JD powers and Consumer Reports and any other one of those types of surveys consistently place HOnda and Acura very favorably. So what does that tell you? Yup, you guessed it, absolutely nothing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Personally, I think the cupholder thing is spin generated by BMW, who happens to also have lousy (average is lousy) reliability/workmanship.
To each his own.
PS Bet the Mini does very well in their APEAL study. Which matters more to you? That you like driving it, or the cup holders?
Appeal is not a good indicator of anything beyond the fact many people want something. VW was high on the appeal list for a long time. BMW still is. Doesn't mean either are good makes.
LOL
It wasn't BMW's spin about the cup holders, that fact was mentioned in a couple of different articles. Presumably the information came from JDP's own press releases.
So let's see, you'd rather have a completely lousy, bore-you-to-death car that was perfectly reliable, vs. a passionate/fun car that might have a nit-pick or two?
To each his/her own. It's nice to have choices.
-juice
I do not for a second believe you can't build a solid car that's fun. The Miata is a great example.
BMW is already switching its seat supplier for the upcoming face-lifted version w/o the Chrysler engine built in Brazil.
I know it's still the resale champ due to production shortage.
"...the steering has a meaty feel, with direct responses to inputs...Both cars suffered ride vibration on fine surface ripples - the type you find in Britain where frost pits the road. This may be to do with the 17-inch rubber on our test models (16-inch will be standard in the UK), or the the fact that they were run-flat tyres, as there's no space for a spare wheel."
I own a Miata, BTW. )
Let's be fair, though, rentals get beat up pretty bad.
The CS1 concept looked better, so maybe the coupe/sedan/convertibles will be better styled.
-juice
From a style-only perspective, the MB Hatch is 10X better looking than the BMW in my books...and I here they are giving them away.
The pictures they had looked decent enough (not Bangelized, but not incredibly great-looking).. they great part were the specs-- a car lighter and tighter than the E46, with 250-300hp!
I hope they are close to being right on this.
On one level, I'm fine with that [I bought one of the original 1600-2s imported to the West Coast in 1967]; on another, I still think they are missing a bet by not importing the 5-door 1er. No one from BMWNA asked me, of course...
You're not gonna believe how much Performance Car(now merged w/ CAR) loved the E36 even w/o sport suspension when compared to the Mercedes C-class sport. This soft-riding Beemer still oversteers/understeers intuitively, albeit the steering ratio was a little slow. I think I only need to add the LSD &, when driving on unfamiliar or slick roads, the DSC.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Looks a lot better than the 5-door hatch. Put a small I6 (190hp) in it and it should do pretty well.
M
Latest stuff points to 1 series as the name for all the smaller than 3 series cars. The i, cic and ci already differentiate among the car types.
IIRC, the Z3 turned into the Z4 to prepare for the upcoming renaming.
Shocked BMW isn't renaming its two seat mini convertible for the same reason.
M
My guess is that we'll see a 2.0-liter I-4 engine rated at 145 bhp (220i) and a 2.5-liter I-6 engine rated at 175 bhp (225i) for the US models, with a future M2 version using a 3.0-liter I-6 engine rated at 225 bhp down the line. The 220i and 225i will use either the 5-speed automatic or 6-speeed manual, and the M2 will use a close-ratio six-speed manual or an optional SMG clutchless manual.
Also, BMW's very leery of using NA 4 cylinder cars in the usa as they're simply not in keeping with the way Americans view luxury brands. i wouldn't expect anything smaller than a 2.5 inline 6 in the base 23-24k 1/2 series. Then the 3 and then probably the 3.2 for the M.
Some reports even mention a 3.5 for the next gen 3. hopefully that's wrong.
The BMW 2002tii is not beautiful, but it's become a cult car for its performance/value.
-juice