After the IIHS report on midsize cars in side crashes, I bet Subaru is breathing a sigh of relief they it has chosen to equip its new Legacy and Outback vehicles with Side Impact curtains and seat mounted thoracic bags for the front passengers. Kudos, FHI.
I share your sentiments too. Although most of my decision to go from manual to auto was primarily wife driven, part of it was due to the fact that the rift between continuous and VTD AWD was getting big. Plus, the wheel mounted shift buttons were nice too.
The wife acceptance factor (WAF) is critical, isn't it? We have to get a car that gets favorable ratings from both IIHS and NHTSA (it does make a difference on your insurance rates...add up over 8 to 10 years) but also has some of the more desirable safety features. Not because we autocross and race but because other folks around sometimes are not paying attention. The same reason as Ken we are looking at Auto. Now I have to decide whether the navigation unit is worth pursuing because other WAF AWD cars have it and Legacy might not. Although the pictures on need-desire show a rectangular piece of trim right about the CD that could be (made into?) the location for a 3x5 navigation unit. Anyone else notice that?
It's funny you should mention the shift buttons. I was at the NY auto show Friday night where I asked one of the Subaru reps what are the buttons for. The first 2 people replied that they're not sure, maybe it's for the radio? One person told me it controls everything on the center console (radio, climate control, & trip computer). Finally I found one woman who was pretty sure it was for the sport shift. I found that most of the Subaru reps had very little knowledge of the new OB or Legacy. They ususally referred me to the need-desire web site. It seemed I knew more than they did (not too surprising when you consider I get most of my info from the Crew here, that is pretty disappointing). My friend who was with me could not belleve they did not even know what the mileage was on the 05's. The answer I kept on getting was that they will know more after they attend a regional class in July.
The good thing was I was able to see/feel the difference in the increased ground clearance on the OB. I definitely felt it getting in to the car, and it may be enough to lean me towards the OB over the Legacy - I like the higher feel. Unfortunately, the Subaru reps did not know if there will be any type of front armor (skid plate) available.
Just as an FYI - they seem to think that a NAV system will be offered on the 06's.
If you're on a budget, a left over '04 is a good deal. '05s are much improved, but they'll cost a good $2-3 grand more for at least a few months, until supply catches up.
I am not very knowledgeable on Subarus, never considered one until now. Mostly due to interior quality and having to take AWD which I don't think I would find any need for. After looking at the specs of the entry-level 4-speed automatic version of the Legacy I'm somewhat interested in this car. It seems to have a nice interior, ABS and side curtains standard, 4-wheel discs, and judging from the previous post of the crash test scores seems to be a safe car overall.
If anyone could answer any of my questions I would appreciate it.
How is the reliability of Subarus in general? Again I'm interested in the 4-speed auto version of the Legacy. Is the AWD system, transmission/engine, etc. reliable in this car?
Anyone who has seen the car in person, how is the interior quality of it? How does it compare to say, an Acura TSX? How is the quality of the cloth? I would prefer leather but don't want a sunroof and don't have the money for the limited version. I have seen the new Volvo S40 interior and thought the cloth kind of cheapened the interior overall. I was wondering if the cloth in the Subaru did the same thing as cloth in the Volvo did.
What is the weight of the 4-speed auto version of the Legacy? I have not seen the specs for it yet. I was afraid the AWD system might add too much weight because I thought the 4-cyl auto version of the Mazda6 was a bit sluggish but could deal with it. I would think the Legacy will be similar to the Mazda6 in acceleration right?
Finally, I have not seen any pictures of the 16" alloys on the base version. I have seen a couple but they were at an angle so you can't see them very well. Any clear shots of what they look like?
Reliability is better than average. More importantly, the Subaru Crew here on Edmunds has a rep from SoA as an active member, and she really takes care of us. That's why a lot of us have more than one Subaru. My family has owned 6 total, 4 currently.
I've seen them in person in Detroit and then again in Philly, plus I own a 2002. It's a big improvement, no doubt. Nicer headliner, padded too, fabric covered A-pillars, better finished carpeting edges, stuff like that. 4 level heated seats and side curtain air bags are standard, too.
I have not driven a TSX. The Volvo S40's rear seat is smaller compared to the Legacy's, it's closer to WRX in size. Actually I think the WRX has more head room.
With an aluminum hood, roof rails, front and rear bumper beams, the Legacy will lose 180 lbs, so the 2.5l engine should feel more than adequate unless you're Speed Racer.
IMO the Subie boxer mates up well to an automatic because it's a torquey engine that doesn't have to rev high to make power.
I am in the situation where I have been offered a deal of $500 over invoice for a Legacy sedan GT MT if I commit within the next week. The question I still have is what the acceleration performance is likely to be. I would be very dissapointed if I put my money down and then the car tested with 0-60 in the 6's. Can anyone shed any light in this area (I guess the driving factors will be weight and gearing, both of which I have no info on), Thanks
0-60 in the 6s is not too shabby. That's quicker than the automatic Altimas and Accord with a V6, and about where the MT models are.
Having said that, the Forester XT was clocked at 5.3 seconds, and while the Legacy is slightly heavier (though the different will decrease) it's also rated for 40 extra horses, and 15 extra lb-ft.
I'd guess about 5.5 conservatively, with the MT. Maybe 6.4 for the auto. The auto might be quicker since this is the new 5 speed with Sportshift controls on the steering wheels.
I think $500 over is a good price right now, if you hesitate you might have to wait a few months to match that.
Subaru's preliminary estimates on the GT 0-60 time is 5.5 seconds. Given that all things considering, the GT will be somewhere between the STi and FXT, 5.5 seconds sounds about right. Subaru typically will provide conservative estimates until a car magazine posts their data. Keep a heads up for next month's car magazines -- they'll probably have reviews.
I was driving home last night, and while on I-95 South in Mass, I saw a transport truck loaded up with new '05 Legacys! There were 4 or 5 Legacy sedans, and the rest were Bajas. No Legacy wagons or OBs, though. Has anyone seen the '05 Legacy on a dealer's lot yet?
Just talked to my sales guy today as he got my VIP letter from Subaru yesterday. He's got a Silver GT Ltd. Wagon with the AT and a Black with the MT coming in the second or third week of May. Guess I need to decide. I may wait to drive both before deciding but I'd say I'm 90% sure I'd go with the MT. Says he may try to trade the Black one for a Silver one with another dealer for me. ;-)
Actually the storage lot is in Westborough - I believe it is run by the logistics firm that hauls for most manufacturers. I stopped by the Subaru port location in Boston - nothing there but a few Foresters.
We have a 2002 outback H6 3.0 and like it alot. Do alot of skiing and and wilderness stuff. Thinking of adding a second outback b/c one of us does not like to share!!!
My question is..., acceleration from a slow speed (20mph to 65) seems adequate, but Ive felt that going from 65 to 80 in order to pass someone seems slow. Wondering whether others have experienced this and whether the the new 250hp will help with this. Im particularly concerned with passing the slow car on the mountain roads.
Another question... How has Subaru's reliability been with the first year of new model in the past?
The H6 was reliable right from the start in 2001 MY. Subaru took some build quality hits in the 2000 MY and knew they had to get an upscale version right...
I'm pretty sure that the new 3.0R will have a much flatter response curve at all speeds and RPMS. This new engine uses both variable cam timing as well as lift and it also comes with a 5-speed transmission. Not only will it be better able to stay in the right gear, it will also be able get more power at a given RPM.
I test drove a manual XT Forester last night, and it was a riot. I did so because I figured that it would be the closest to the new Legacy in operation.
I found the front leg room to be very good for me - a tall fellow.
In what ways will the Legacy GT MT be different than the Forester XT? Better handling? Smoother ride due to longer wheel base? Lower to ground and nicer interior?
I am really looking forward to the Legacy GT but I have to admit, the Forester XT has charms of its own.
Several Crew regulars have had that fun drive in a Forester XT and are waiting to test drive and compare the FXT and the new Legacy GT and OB XT before making a decision. Differences in seat position, rear leg room,ground clearance, cargo room all figure into the equation. But a good time should be had by all.
I spoke to my local dealer in Santa Monica, CA yeterday. He said Nav maybe offered in 06 MY but was not sure. As many others have been saying as well... Oh well looks like I'm gonna have to wait as well...
Yes, the FXT MT is a compelling ride. It'll remain the most affordable 2.5T Subaru model for some time.
The Legacy GT will most likely have better handling due to it's lower center of gravity, stiffer suspension setup and lower profile tires. It's longer wheel base will probably make it less nimble than the FXT, but it should still be a hoot to toss around. Also, keep in mind that the FXT is really a Forester XS with a turbo engine and beefier transmission. The suspension is identical.
The Legacy interior is also a notch up from the Forester. I've seen the new Legacy GT in person at the Detroit Auto Show and it is impressive.
As for power and acceleration, it's hard to say. The Legacy GT engine, although it shares the same 2.5 block, will probably have more output. The intercooler is different and maybe so the turbo. However, the FXT MT has very short gearing that does add to it's 0-60 times.
I'm sure we'll start seeing some road tests on the Leg GT soon.
The new H6 will be better than the current one, plus the 5 Speed auto with the manual mode will give you more control over shifts.
If you are driving in the mountains, you may also want to consider the XT. It will be slightly cheaper than the H6, plus it will offer a 5 speed manual along with the auto.
The big advantage of the turbo is that air pressure differences in the mountains will not affect the engine, especially handy if the car is loaded down with people and cargo.
The XT will also have a performance advantage over the H6 as it increases the torque to 250 over 218.
Just posted this on future models - have been offered 2% over invoice for Leg GT sedan MT, has anyone else been offered similar or better ? (will probably sign up tomorow)
Thanks for the help from everyone; Ive been reading this forum for several weeks but was inhibited about posting! Now that Ive started, I wont be able to stop. This is a great resource. I need the auto shift for family duty. Will the auto in the XT be near as peppy as with the manual. I test-drove the auto/XT forester and was not overwhelmed. The sales rep said that the manual just zooms in comparison to the auto.
Sounds like people are getting anywhere from 500 to 1500 dollars off MSRP on 2005 MY. The dealers here in the SF bay area are very tight-lipped. Im not getting much info.
Comments
Well, the sportshift will hopefully make up for that.
~alpha
Ken
I found that most of the Subaru reps had very little knowledge of the new OB or Legacy. They ususally referred me to the need-desire web site. It seemed I knew more than they did (not too surprising when you consider I get most of my info from the Crew here, that is pretty disappointing). My friend who was with me could not belleve they did not even know what the mileage was on the 05's. The answer I kept on getting was that they will know more after they attend a regional class in July.
The good thing was I was able to see/feel the difference in the increased ground clearance on the OB. I definitely felt it getting in to the car, and it may be enough to lean me towards the OB over the Legacy - I like the higher feel. Unfortunately, the Subaru reps did not know if there will be any type of front armor (skid plate) available.
Just as an FYI - they seem to think that a NAV system will be offered on the 06's.
Mark
-juice
DaveM
If anyone could answer any of my questions I would appreciate it.
How is the reliability of Subarus in general? Again I'm interested in the 4-speed auto version of the Legacy. Is the AWD system, transmission/engine, etc. reliable in this car?
Anyone who has seen the car in person, how is the interior quality of it? How does it compare to say, an Acura TSX? How is the quality of the cloth? I would prefer leather but don't want a sunroof and don't have the money for the limited version. I have seen the new Volvo S40 interior and thought the cloth kind of cheapened the interior overall. I was wondering if the cloth in the Subaru did the same thing as cloth in the Volvo did.
What is the weight of the 4-speed auto version of the Legacy? I have not seen the specs for it yet. I was afraid the AWD system might add too much weight because I thought the 4-cyl auto version of the Mazda6 was a bit sluggish but could deal with it. I would think the Legacy will be similar to the Mazda6 in acceleration right?
Finally, I have not seen any pictures of the 16" alloys on the base version. I have seen a couple but they were at an angle so you can't see them very well. Any clear shots of what they look like?
Thanks in advance for any help!
I've seen them in person in Detroit and then again in Philly, plus I own a 2002. It's a big improvement, no doubt. Nicer headliner, padded too, fabric covered A-pillars, better finished carpeting edges, stuff like that. 4 level heated seats and side curtain air bags are standard, too.
I have not driven a TSX. The Volvo S40's rear seat is smaller compared to the Legacy's, it's closer to WRX in size. Actually I think the WRX has more head room.
With an aluminum hood, roof rails, front and rear bumper beams, the Legacy will lose 180 lbs, so the 2.5l engine should feel more than adequate unless you're Speed Racer.
IMO the Subie boxer mates up well to an automatic because it's a torquey engine that doesn't have to rev high to make power.
-juice
The question I still have is what the acceleration performance is likely to be. I would be very dissapointed if I put my money down and then the car tested with 0-60 in the 6's. Can anyone shed any light in this area (I guess the driving factors will be weight and gearing, both of which I have no info on), Thanks
Having said that, the Forester XT was clocked at 5.3 seconds, and while the Legacy is slightly heavier (though the different will decrease) it's also rated for 40 extra horses, and 15 extra lb-ft.
I'd guess about 5.5 conservatively, with the MT. Maybe 6.4 for the auto. The auto might be quicker since this is the new 5 speed with Sportshift controls on the steering wheels.
I think $500 over is a good price right now, if you hesitate you might have to wait a few months to match that.
-juice
Ken
-juice
Oh yeah, *if* I fit in the seat!
-juice
Hey, as long as it's accurate, size doesn't matter. ;-)
Ken
Cheers Pat.
-juice
Oh my.... :-)
Bob
I believe there is a big auto storage facility in Westwood somewhere.
Norwood Subaru still has a sea of '04 cars, so who knows when I'll see the '05s there.....
So, regarding the steering wheel buttons. Will the XT manual have radio controls?
-juice
So, maybe end of May or early June for me!
-Ian
My question is..., acceleration from a slow speed (20mph to 65) seems adequate, but Ive felt that going from 65 to 80 in order to pass someone seems slow. Wondering whether others have experienced this and whether the the new 250hp will help with this. Im particularly concerned with passing the slow car on the mountain roads.
Another question... How has Subaru's reliability been with the first year of new model in the past?
thanks
Hard to predict the future though...
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Share your vehicle reviews
Ken
I found the front leg room to be very good for me - a tall fellow.
In what ways will the Legacy GT MT be different than the Forester XT? Better handling? Smoother ride due to longer wheel base? Lower to ground and nicer interior?
I am really looking forward to the Legacy GT but I have to admit, the Forester XT has charms of its own.
Several Crew regulars have had that fun drive in a Forester XT and are waiting to test drive and compare the FXT and the new Legacy GT and OB XT before making a decision. Differences in seat position, rear leg room,ground clearance, cargo room all figure into the equation. But a good time should be had by all.
mark
The Legacy GT will most likely have better handling due to it's lower center of gravity, stiffer suspension setup and lower profile tires. It's longer wheel base will probably make it less nimble than the FXT, but it should still be a hoot to toss around. Also, keep in mind that the FXT is really a Forester XS with a turbo engine and beefier transmission. The suspension is identical.
The Legacy interior is also a notch up from the Forester. I've seen the new Legacy GT in person at the Detroit Auto Show and it is impressive.
As for power and acceleration, it's hard to say. The Legacy GT engine, although it shares the same 2.5 block, will probably have more output. The intercooler is different and maybe so the turbo. However, the FXT MT has very short gearing that does add to it's 0-60 times.
I'm sure we'll start seeing some road tests on the Leg GT soon.
Ken
If you are driving in the mountains, you may also want to consider the XT. It will be slightly cheaper than the H6, plus it will offer a 5 speed manual along with the auto.
The big advantage of the turbo is that air pressure differences in the mountains will not affect the engine, especially handy if the car is loaded down with people and cargo.
The XT will also have a performance advantage over the H6 as it increases the torque to 250 over 218.
Have fun in whatever you decide!
Pete
I need the auto shift for family duty. Will the auto in the XT be near as peppy as with the manual. I test-drove the auto/XT forester and was not overwhelmed. The sales rep said that the manual just zooms in comparison to the auto.
Sounds like people are getting anywhere from 500 to 1500 dollars off MSRP on 2005 MY. The dealers here in the SF bay area are very tight-lipped. Im not getting much info.
Any thoughts.