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Comments
So, your light comes on, you don't know how to make it go off, and you go to the dealer to have your oil changed at the same time. Pretty smart of Toyota if you ask me!
Personally, I was just so glad to find that it was possible to turn off the light without visiting the friendly dealer, and I do read the manual cover to cover.
This reminds me of someone at the post office commenting about his red leSabre and my red leSabre. He told me his had been driven by his adult daughter for 37 or 39K miles and he said she never changed the oil. He had given it to her and this was near the 100K mile mark. If sludging we possible that would be the time! He changed oil. Drove 500 miles in his work where he drives a route and drained the oil. He said there was a heavy goo coming out when the mechanic showed him the car draining. Car's running fine at about 250K. But he continued changing the oil frequently.
BTW this car has the indicator light for oil change due...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Obviously my comments are just speculation.
Please keep us posted on the outcome. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Walmart's only defense could be your daughter took out the oil drain plug to get a new engine. Most illogical.
If the engine shows the classic signs of oil starvation that's really all Walmart needs to know. The car couldn't burn 5 quarts in 277 miles and it didn't leak it, so that's your answer.
You may need to tape over your daughter's mouth about driving with the oil light on---that was definitely not a great thing to do.
Red oil light means STOP, as in right now, right here.
MrShiftright
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Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
On another forum, it was mentioned that two longer filters, a PH43 and PH8A should fit. I've used both of those filters, as the PH8A was commoon on Mopar smallblocks and big-blocks. The PH43 was called for in tighter situations, such as the V-8 Dart and all the Aspen/Volare derivatives (F/M/J body).
The PH8A is about an inch and a half longer than the PH16. Would putting a longer filter on, presuming that it will, indeed, fit, help out much with lubrication? I figure a larger filter increases capacity a bit, but also greatly improves filtering capacity, and it much less likely to clog.
Also, is there a way to tell whether the filter will fit, without actually trying to put it on? I don't want to try it and end up stripping something, and messing up my car!
There's a code stamped on the bottom of each filter. The PH16 has "2X", and the PH8A has "2Y". I'm presuming that has something to do with the compatibility?
So basically, would the PH8A work on my car, and if so, is there really any benefit to using it?
A few link to pictures of a few pictures of some of the filters that I've tried (note, I refuse to use Fram filters so you won't see them in the photos):
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1202/1347538474_9b4b68dbde_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1284/1347539118_86ccb3c5c6_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1039/1346649005_25b7f5d63f_o.jpg
FWIW, the above pictures are NOT 56K friendly, so if you (or anyone else for that matter) want links to smaller sizes, just let me know. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
The thread patterns look the same, but I know that's a hard thing to eyeball. I also found an old oil filter over there from when I had my '86 Monte Carlo 305, and I could tell its thread pattern was a bit different.
Oh, I also found an old Purolator PER-1 filter, their equivalent to the Fram PH8A. It's still in its cardboard/plastic wrap. I'm guessing it's from 1972, because looking on the back, where it says what cars it fits on, it only goes up to 1972. It actually lists the 1958-61 DeSoto, too.
Shipo, why don't you like Fram filters? I've heard other people mention that, too. Is there something inherently evil/cheap/bad about them?
**Edit: I just looked up Fram's specs for various Mopar engines. And it does look like the 3.2/3.5 and 3.3/3.8, as well as the old Mitsu 3.0 V-6 all call for the same filter as the 2.7...the PH16. So if an oversized cannister fits a Grand Caravan 3.8, it should fit a 2.7 Intrepid.
On the Intrepid 2.7, the filter upside down, right ahead of the suspension, so it's real easy to get to. I can change it without jacking the car up. It's sort of recessed a bit with the oil pan surrounding it. Something longer, like a PH8A, might stick out a bit and be more at risk for scraping/puncturing. Not sure though...I'd have to look again.
I remember years ago, putting the extra long filter on my '68 Dart. A combination of a collapsing engine mount and bent exhaust system actually brought the filter into contact with the exhaust. The exhaust burned/rubbed a hole in the filter, causing a leak and a lot of smoke. I guess I'm lucky the danged thing didn't catch on fire! :surprise:
There have been a number of studies that show that some of the Fram oil filters are decidedly inferior to even elcheapo off brand filters and WAY less effective than OEMs specify for filters. By the same token, some of their filters seem to test out okay, but at a premium price. Given all of the noise of their advertising, I find the company to be hypocritical to say the least and as such won't patronize them, even if some of their products are acceptable.
Regarding your intrepid, I highly suspect that even the longest of the long canister filters (i.e. the Mobil 1) won't hang lower on your car than say your oil pan or other components, and as such it would be HIGHLY unlikely for the filter to get damaged from normal driving conditions. ;-)
FWIW, the Motorcraft FL-1A seems to be the best bargain for a high quality filter, and easily one of the most widely available.
Best Regards,
Shipo
On the other hand, they are capable of making top quality filters for OEM manufacturers and they do. These just aren't sold many places compared to the more common orange ones.
Yeah, I'm aware of that and I try and avoid all products manufactured by Fram (regardless of label) because I don't like their business practices.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Fram is a HUGE filter builder. They cater to the Wal-Mart crowd who only care about price but they can make top quality filters too and the do!
Only a Norwegian would drive a car over 200 miles with an oil light on!
If you look at my last name on my profile yoy will see how I can get away with saying that. :P
I just can't see taking a car to Wal Mart for ANYTHING!
I was in a Wal-Mart once and that was enough!
In light of what I've been hearing here, I think I'm just going to stick it out with the stock-size oil filter. Although I think I'm going to switch to a brand other than Fram!
Y'know, that Fram 3387 number sounds familiar, too. Strange how numbers can stick in your head. I wonder if my '80 Malibu, which had a 229 V-6, used a 3387? Or I wonder if it's the Buick 231? I had an '82 Cutlass with that engine, and my Dad has an '03 Regal. I've changed his oil a couple times.
I have a feeling that number stamped on the bottom of the filter (where it screws up) is some kind of compatibility code. And since it's different on the PH16 from the PH43/PH8A, I'm going to just take that as a sign to leave well enough alone, and not experiment!
I changed the oil and filter without incident, I thought. Until I started the car up and moved it back over to my side of the street. It was making kind of a squishing, almost obscene noise. I thought it was the power steering pump at first. When I got it back over to my side, I noticed a trail of oil all the way from where I had changed it in Grandma's yard. It turns out the gasket had come off the old filter and stuck to the underside of the car! So when I put the new filter on, I got the double gasket effect!
I've heard that can happen but I swear I have NEVER seen that happen ANY time I've ever changed the oil! If nothing else it taught me to pay more attention next time I change the oil and filter.
I can't really see much benefit in using a larger filter even if they do happen to fit. For those of us who change our oil pretty often, I doubt if there would be any benefit.
Well, for those of us who believe in extended oil change intervals, the extra filter area is useful, that and the extra oil spreads your bet just a little bit more. In the case of our vans, the larger filter moves my oil capacity from five quarts to five and a half quarts, fully a ten percent increase.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I just don't see it making a measurable difference. I'm not as anal about oil changes as I once was but I won't go over 4500-5000 miles so in my case I'm sure it wouldn't make much of a difference.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Here's my question to you, thebigal, since you seem to know something about their system. When two of the shop managers asked to go with me to take pictures of the car, I pointed out that they had not capped off the windshield fluid (that was part of the package). He said that their windshield fluid equipment wasn't working well that day. Does the same pressure system run all their fluid delivery systems.
We know it was Walmart's fault. I could get over 50 affidavits from family and friends that would say my daughter's engine ran great, and that she never said to them that it wasn't performing well. Only the very next day after the service two of her friends riding with her to the fair said her engine sounded terrible. The mystery still to be solved is whether it is possible for a car to go 277 miles, running roughly, on a little over 1 1/2 quarts of oil??? Remember, the cylinder where the oil enters the engine looked good, only the last two were bad and threw both rods. If there were oil in the pan, their own inspector said that it should have sprayed oil down the undercarriage, and it was perfectly clean.
I'm still open to more suggestions. I am either going to small claims court (I know someone who once taught law who would help me with court documents). Or, we were told to check with our auto insurance company and they might represent us in court.
By the way, so far they have refused to let us see the video, although they could. When we go to court we will subpoena not only the part of the video showing my daughter's car being serviced, but all videos used on all four stalls for the entire day. I saw some pretty crazy stuff going on as I waited. Thanks again to all! 0h....... My daughter is only 1/2 Norsk ;-)
What kind of a car is this? That poor car had one TOUGH engine to have lasted that long!
An engine light means turn off motor NOW, not half a block later when it's convenient. I recall a radio mechanic talking about training his daughter when she started driving about the lights.
I am not piling on. I'm just remind others we should remind our drivers in our households about the lights and what to do. My wife drove our car home from Olive Garden with the low tire pressure light on without checking visually to see--in an ultrasafe area for stopping to check.
I kept thinking about the 266 miles. There used to be a commercial for an oil additive where they drained the motors of oil and drove the cars to see how long they'd go. of course the one where the oil had had the special additive went further.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If I were a judge hearing this case,just based on what I've read, I don't think I would award 100% of the damages to the owner of the car. I see at least "some" shared responsibility here. But, then, I'm not a judge.
If I were REAL cynical, I could be thinking that a driver could realize the oil had been left out and with visions of a new engine being installed in my old car courtesy of Wal Mart to simply keep driving until it blew.
But, I'm not thinking that here.
I remember with my '68 Dart 318, when it got down to about 2 quarts, the oil pressure light would come on if I accelerated too fast, cornered too quickly, or braked too hard. I tried to NOT let it get down that low, but slipped up from time to time.
Just out of curiosity, how long would an engine last with no oil in it, under a no-load condition, such as idling? I'm thinking in terms of those tests they used to do for Slick 50 and such wehre they'd drain the oil and then run the engine until it siezed up.
Actually, doing the math, it looks like that would yield about an extra 1/3 quart capacity! That adds about 19 cubic inches more capacity. There's about 231 cubic inches in a gallon, or about 57.75 cubic inches to a quart.
I was thinking though, that a bigger advantage might be filtering capacity. If one filter is, say, 25% longer than another, wouldn't it have 25% more filtering capacity? Seems like it would also last much longer before getting clogged up, since it has much more filtering area.
Still, I've traditionally tried to change my oil every 3-4,000 miles. Although I have to admit, I think the Intrepid's gone about 7K at this point! :surprise: That may not seem bad to some of you extended-interval fans, but my Granddad actually raised me on 2K intervals, and it took me a long time to break myself of THAT habit!
Granddad probably had a good excuse, though. He worked on a farm where it was dusty, and his commute was maybe 2 miles at best. Grandmom worked at a nearby hospital that was maybe 2.5. It wasn't until the 1960's that many of the side roads around here were paved. There used to be a lot of farms in general around here. So I guess all the dust from the farms and dirt/gravel roads, plus the ultra-short commutes made it a good idea to change the oil more often.
Plus, oil technologies have improved, although I've heard that those little synthetic thingies that make multi-grade oil possible are more likely to break down and cause problems as you increase the distance from one number to the next. So a 5W30 would break down quicker than a 10W30.
I use conventional oil, OEM filters and try to change it around the 4000 mile mark, maybe stretching to 5000 miles.
I figure oil changes aren't expensive and I look on it is cheap insurance.
From placement of the brick to seizure (which came after a lot of noise and damage had already been occurring), the longest engine, as I recall, was a flathead Hudson that went 9 minutes. A VW was almost instantaneous.
Another reason why the Slick 50 ads are bogus.
Well, kinda sorta. I suppose that if you're talking about conventional oil that is true, however, fully synthetic PAO based oils are so stable they don't need any viscosity improvers (VIs) to work as multi grade oils. No VIs, no tendency to break down.
In this case, a 0W-40 is no more likely to break down than a straight weight 40 weight oil is, maybe even less so.
Best Regards,
Shipo
" A lot of noise" That was an understatement!!
Yup, me too, but not from engines running on synthetic oil. I just happened to replace the head gaskets on one of our engines that had exactly 143,625 miles on it, and had used synthetic oil on a 10,000 to 12,000 mile OCI schedule since the engine had about 15,000 miles on it. As you can see by the following pictures, not only is the engine not "gunked up", it still has the honing marks on the cylinder walls.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1262/616655435_2aecf3ffe3_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1418/751628521_5567e459ae_o.jpg
Best Regards,
Shipo
Secondly, we bought this car because of its low mileage for its age 1998/78,000 miles. When we go to court there will be two groups of affidavites: One group of roughly 50+ that will say that when they were with my daughter in her car it ran swell or that they never heard my daughter complaining of the car running poorly. The second "group" will number 2. These are her two friends who road with her to the fair and said that her engine was running terribly. Then she left for Fargo, ND and her car broke down on the Interstate.
Once again, I would be very pleased if someone could give me a good explanation as to how the car could go 277 miles on very low oil. (And I DO appreciate some of you who have made some observations). Remember, the location where the oil entered the engine the cylinder looked good. It was the last two cylinders that were dry and threw rods. The best theory to date is that the engine was under-filled, ran roughly, but had enough oil spray to keep it going for 277 miles. The last two cylinders/pistons continued to overheat, however, causing the oil to burn off and finally there was not enough oil to lubricate and that's when the engine blew. Please advise... Thanks!
I ran a lawnmower for about 3 minutes before I recalled I had drained the oil and not refilled it the previous day. I later sold it to a coworker and last I asked a few years later he was still mowing his city lot with it. It didn't smoke after that any more than a typical 4-cycle B&S motor does.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess you just never know when one is going to stick. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Or, they could offer to settle out of court but I doubt very much if the will offer to foot the entire bill for a new engine on a ten year old car.
I'm still predicting if it does go to court that the judge will offset it and rule a partial payment for a new engine.
I can see strong and convincing arguments either way.
I'm a relative young'un, I guess, but I've been changing oil changes for about 20 years now, and this was the first time I'd ever seen a gasket come off!
Now I do remember, years ago, with my first car, a 1980 Malibu, I put a filter on too tight and it wouldn't come off. The filter wrench just crumpled it. And yeah, I knew that trick of putting oil on the gasket before putting the new filter on, so that it *shouldn't* stick. My Granddad showed me how to just hammer a screwdriver through it and use that as leverage. That doesn't always work either, though. A few years ago, the filter on my '79 New Yorker was too tight and wouldn't come off. The wrench crumpled it, and all the screwdriver did was tear it up worse. I ultimately had to just cut the thing apart, while it was on the car, until it was just the base left on. Then I started drilling on the base until it weakened enough to loosen its death grip. Probably a miracle that I didn't mess up the threads or something...
The red light usually goes off at around 5 lbs oil pressure, something like that, and it's really a warning of dire consequences to follow.
A menancing RED LIGHT along with "terrible" sounds from the engine and not realizing something was terribly wrong?
Do we know what kind of a car this is? The cost of a replacement engine could exceed the limits of a Small Claims Court. I don't even know what those limits are but I know they vary by state.
Now, what's my point. My daughter knew that her car had just been serviced--the old oil taken out and replaced with new oil. A mechanic had done that. In her mind it was impossible that her car could be low on oil... it could only mean that it was slightly over filled.
My daughter also purchased new tires that same day. I told her the car would drive differently. She, as I said before, is 18, this was her first car and she has had it for three months.
To their credit, Walmart discovered that she had the wrong size tire and made the correction. She was also told that the car might handle differently due to the change in tire size.
To those of us who understand something about how a car works, we would clearly differentiate between engine performance and tire performance. She didn't, and when the car (as noted by her two fiends) sounded rough, she just didn't know what to do. I wish she would have asked me about it.
As far as the engine, I couldn't wait around... she is already attending a tech school in a distant city, and I need our second car back. I realized that if we settled I could not expect a new engine from Walmart. Your right, that would be unfair. So I had the mechanic look around and he found an engine with about the same amount of miles on it... that is far.
Thanks again folks for broadening the field. David
My advise is to do your homework before you walk in there. The judge liked to see detailed time lines, and things like that. Go to the Attorney General's office and see if any similar complaints have been lodged against this Wal-Mart. This leads me to a funny story about what happened in my hearing...
As part of the prep work for the hearing, I went down to the Attorney General's office (very helpful) and made copies of the complaints lodged with them regarding the company I was suing. There were dozens. A few of them were for the exact reason I was suing them. The last thing I did when I was testifying was to try to submit these complaints to make a record of the poor service history they have. The Judge told me "You can't submit those because they do not pertain to your case. You can only submit them if the defendant uses thier reputation as a defense." So, I held on to them. My turn was over and the defendant had his turn. The first thing he does is tell the judge that his company has a great reputation and this has never happened before. Then the judge turns to me. Looks me straight in the eye and says:
"NOW you can submit those complaints for the record." I think he even had a slight grin on his face.
From a purely dollar standpoint it would be cheaper to give you the few thousand dollars that small claims is limited to than fly in a lawyer, have him/her spend a few days preparing the case, paying for food and dinner, etc...
I just can't understand how hearing horrible engine sounds could be attributed to having new tires on a car.
And (I guess)I can understand driving maybe a SHORT distance with an oil light on but 277 miles??
I can tell you are not trying to enrich yourself because of a mistake by Wal Mart and I do hope they are fair with you as it looks you are trying to be with them.
I do wish you well.