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~alpha
-Andrew L
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/event/auto_shows/toyota/index.html
My wife wants a new car and test drove the 04 Avalon yesterday. Any advice on whether we should wait for the 05 to come out? I liked the 04 - especially the room. Nonetheless, I would prefer to have a "newer" model, everything else equal. I'm also concerned about buying a car in the first model year. I did, however, buy the first Sequoia our dealership had (but that was basically a Tundra underneath).
Any comments?
And I'm sure there will be something in the '05 you wish you had.
But the more I look into this (and possibly wait until 05 for the new Avalon), the more I think this is bad info.
From what I read the Crown Concept is more what the next generation of Lexus will be, not the Avalon. I also read that the Crown sold in Japan is really their top-of-the-line luxury auto, aka Lexus, not a high-end Toyota.
So all that that link referred to may have more to do with the 06 GS Lexus than the 05 Avalon. While I think the 05 Avalon may be worth the wait, I'm not sure it will be a radical change from what the current model is. I hope I'm wrong.
Can anyone confirm that the Toyota Crown is more Lexus than Avalon?
This is not true. The Japanese version of the LS has always been the Celsior. Starting in a few years this will change as all Lexus models will be Lexuses in Japan and elsewhere as they get redesigned.
Also, the Crown has nothing to do with Lexus. All future Lexus models will use the new Lexus-specific exterior styling (which the Crown does not have) and will be badged as Lexus worldwide, even in Japan (again, the Crown does not have). So far, the only vehicles shown to the public that have this styling are the LF-S concept sedan, LF-X crossover concept and next-generation GS production car. The coupe concept to be shown at the NY Auto Show will be the next in line.
I want to believe the reason Toyota currently displays the Crown Concept on their website is because it is in fact the replacement for the Avalon!
Your message has given me hope...
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/crown.html
Here is a link you may enjoy.
http://response.jp/event/tms2003/list/toy_crown.html
With respect, I think that this is not a good indicator of the future. I have finished reading The Toyota Way, which is a business book on the principles of Toyota. There are two chapters at the beginning of the book that talk about the genesis of the original Lexus 400 and of the Prius.
What I get from the chapter on the Prius is that it was a test for making Toyotas for the new century. We know for sure that there is a (relatively) large hybrid engine on the way for at least the Lexus 330. My impression is that Toyota is about to change from a relatively conservative car maker into one distinguished by its advanced technology.
When you consider how much each Toyota car depends on another, the likely outcome is that things will change quickly. I would not be very surprised if the Toyota line-up for 2007 is considerably different from what they have now.
I like the looks better and the new features, if available, would make this a car worth of consideration.
I hadn't heard of the Celsior, so I guess I'll have to look that up.
Key words are: "to propose the ideal for a next-generation luxury class sedan"
Those words points to the fact that 05/06 Avalon is not the Crown Concept. The Avalon is not a luxury car, unless Toyota has plans to move it into the $40K and up market.
The Avalon is not a luxury car, unless Toyota has plans to move it into the $40K and up market
Teereeves, I disagree, the Avalon XLS is a luxury car at a budget price. Compared to pretenders like the Volvo S-80, Saab 9-5, Infinti M45 and Acura RL the Avalon is a genuine luxury car. It is a poor man's Lexus or to say it differently, it is a Lexus with a Toyota badge.
In terms of evolution, Toyota should make only incremental changes. For example, a sleeker externior design, a better and more intuitive NAV system, thicker glass windows, a five-speed automatic transmission system at 250 hp and 17-inch tire option.
Toyota should resist adding those superfluous gadgets that adds to cost but not to function or performance such as rear-wheel drive, HID lights and all-wheel drive.
But here is were I disagree, the auto industry sedan classifications are Family, Upscale, Large, and Luxury. The Avalon is considered a Large sedan, not an Upscale or Luxury sedan. I love the Avalon, but I can't see Toyota packing the Crown Concept features in the next redesigned Avalon without increasing the price dramatically.
Definitely, the look of the interior and exterior of a Large sedan can appear to be luxurious.
Do you care to elaborate on this? What does the Avalon have that those cars don't? I'm not following your logic here.
"Toyota should resist adding those superfluous gadgets that adds to cost but not to function or performance such as rear-wheel drive, HID lights and all-wheel drive."
RWD does not add to the cost of a vehicle, it is simply different than FWD. And RWD definitely adds to performance since it balances the weight of the car, helps "push" you through turns and prevents torque steer during acceleration. You don't need to worry here because the Avalon will stay FWD. As for HID lights and AWD, these are not superfluous gadgets as you call them. They are key safety features and most certainly functional.
I have HID on my Lexus and have a very hard time driving cars without HID at night (rental cars, my girlfriend's car, etc.). Once you have a car with HID you'll notice how much more you can see and will probably never want to go back to standard headlights again.
And AWD can be very important when driving in parts of the country that get snow. Further, many times AWD is optional and therefore you only pay for it if you want/need it.
Since giving up my Lexus ES300 for an Avalon I've thought a lot about this.
My overall view is that the two cars are about the same, and I bought the Avalon because I wanted a bigger car (and then I lost 80 pounds, so the extra space wasn't necessary).
But in terms of what you get, I can see how the Avalon could be Lexus-ized. The Avalon is noisier, and thicker glass and better engine mounts could bring that down. But for some reason there is less wind noise in the Avalon, so just when you think the noise will rise, it stays quiet. But in the Lexus I never noticed engine noise.
I also think the suspension on the Avalon is a little less refined than the Lexus. We all agree that the Avalon's road-holding could improve. I was often reminded of driving a sports car with the Lexus, but not yet with the Avalon.
However, all these differences are from someone who was looking hard at the changes. I've never regretted making the move to the Avalon.
~alpha
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Well, after a long four hour guest drive I bought an Avalon XLS (silver spruce) and so far I am pretty satisfied with my purchase.
Regarding my earlier comments on luxury car pretenders, I said that because these cars are in my family and they don't match up to the Avalon.
There is one down side to the Toyota nameplate though. I felt a little embarrassed at a fancy hotel dinner when the valet parking attendant asked what I was driving and I replied a Toyota. Unlike the deliberate and pampered attention he showered on the Mercedes Benz, BMW and Lexus patrons, he treated me like a lump of protoplasm.
Next time?.....it will probably be a Lexus LS.
I would have said, "It's a bit large! Are you sure you can manage it?"
Can someone tell me when the opinions of protoplasmic parking attendants became important? Hey, buddy, can you spell "NO TIP"?
Probably not consistently
You can't always tell what kind of $$ or class someone's got by the vehicle they're driving. When I pull up in my Chrysler minivan, a valet attendant with good customer service skills will treat me the same as he/she treats the Jag driver.
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http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/pdf/toyota_world/TOYOTA-PDF.pdf
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~alpha
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6957
With cars growing bigger and the same engine usually being used in several sizes of cars it will make economic sense to make a bigger engine rather than have different engine sizes for different cars.
The current Avalon weighs a couple of hundred pounds more than my 96. The 2005 will probably add another couple of hundred pounds - maybe more if it has a FWD option.
My Avalon, with about 190 hp does fine, though it could use more power when there is five aboard.
If my Avalon had a five speed transmission, with a deeper overdrive, it would need more engine or it would be very sluggish on freeways (it isn't with the four speed transmission).
That is a rather dramatic overstatement. Many vehicles with 5 speed autos do not loaf around haplessly on the highway, as you seem to imply. The 5th gear usually drops crusing RPM by less than or about 500 revs, hardly dramatic. Additionally, if downshifts are prompt and imperceptible, it is not necessarily true that a vehilce feel sluggish on the highway. Go drive an Accord 5 speed auto, and tell me there is any hint of laziness at 75 MPH. (I use this vehicle, because it has 160 hp and 161 foot pounds... to elaborate on my point).
~alpha