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What's your reason for buying a Hybrid?
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Comments
Well said and I couldn't agree more. Moreover, I think you could apply that to almost any car - people buy what, to them, was the coolest car they could afford. I'd say style/coolness accounts for at least 50% of the decision.
People buy Escalade SUVs for the same reason, and lots of other cars. How come it took so long for people to come up with this (perfectly understandable) reason in this forum?
This is one reason I can completely understand...
The Prius is the car for fuel efficiency. The Lexus hybrid is 40% more
fuel
efficient than the Audi Allroad, also a crossover, that I traded. But
it has so
many better features that I regard the fuel improvement of the Lexus as
a bonus.
Here are some examples: When you accelerate in the Audi there is a
turbo lag. On
the Lexus the electric motors are on instantaneously with full
torque:they're
like powerful superchargers without any lag. The batteries are under the
rear
seat and their weight balances the chassis and so lowers the center of
gravity
that it corners at least as fast and flatter than the Audi. I was
surprised
that the ride is as good as the Audi, because the Audi had air
suspension. The
Lexus is much quieter and the sound system (premium) is the best I've
experienced. The electric steering has been criticized but I find it the
most
precise I've yet experienced. When the cost of fuel cells comes down,
one
simply needs to replace the engine in the hybrid system with the fuel
cell.
Fuel cells are costly because of the amount of platinum currently
needed. I'm
rather confidant the amount needed will be greatly reduced and Toyota
will be
first with PRODUCTION fuel cell vehicles. Provided, of course, that
there is a
suitable hydrogen fueling system widely available. By the way a few
weeks ago
you had an item on robots. I believe Toyota/Yaskawa will be the leaders
in
household and nursing robots.
Diesels can also be used as the hybrid internal combustion engine and
Toyota has
excellent automotive diesel engines.
:confuse:
Does that apply to SUV owners or hybrid owners? Or both?
Don't get carried away with these superlatives though. Remember... Some folks thought the YUGO was cool and the VEGA and a few others that only each of you can share. You know what I like best about my Prius? It fits in the garage with so much more room left over for my wife to add clutter and still gobs of room. Smart car I'd say!
Railroadjames (Prius is a whole lotta car) :shades:
So we finally agree
Cheers,
MidCow
P.S. -I am glad to see someone who really truly and enthusiastically enjoys his car!
Railroadjames (Pass "GO"...Collect $200.00..&..Go Directly past the Gas-Station)
Good Luck MidCow!
My HCH has averaged 66MPG all summer, the highest was 69.2/941miles which in itself is cool.
This year my 12 year old began a new school and I drove the HCH to pick him up one day and a group of kids came over to look at my car. Since my car looks pretty normal I wondered what they were doing. When my son jumped in I asked him what they were looking at?
My hybrid car of course! Kind of silly I thought but it was nice to see an interest by those kids.
A few times it happened as I'm walking across the parking lot I found someone looking over my car. It kinda bothered me at first but after talking to them I felt pretty good about it.
Same with curious people at the gas pump.
They have no idea these cars are capable of almost 70MPG. All they've heard is 30's and 40's and that people in general are disappointed.
Wow....There goes media misinformation!
They are usually skeptical until they see both my tank distance and FCD.
Does anybody here think people would gather in curiosity and around a 1.8 year old Corolla asking questions?
My wife got Hers because she believes in doing her part for the Ecology...
My niece in Houston wanted to evacuate but her Pickup only gets 12 Miles per gallon and there was no way she could sit in those lines and NOT RUN OUT OF GAS...(She could not buy Extra Gas tanks or Gas to fill them.) How nice it would have been for her to own a Hybrid where the engine turns itself off in stop and go traffic and at very low speeds you can run on the battery...
She is shopping for one ....Is interested in the NEW CIVIC...and maybe the Accord.
People are still questioning the hybrid premium, the cost of being forced to go to the dealer for service, high parts costs, and questionable long-term reliability.
Why do you have a problem with a 40-70MPG commuter car not having a bed?
Dealer service-
There are countless people who don't go to the dealer for routine maintenance.
Higher parts cost-
What are you basing this on?
Questionable long-term reliability-
Honda and Toyotas are known for long-term reliability. Hybrids have been out since the late 90's and haven't suffered any long-term reliability issues.
I would, however question long-term reliability issues with other MFG's.....such as VW?
Leave it up to some to completely disregard any hybrid benefits and inject vague reasons "Why not" when the thread is "What's your reason for buying a Hybrid?"
My wife drives it and traded in her 2002 VW Bug... turbo... running on premium... 23mpg. With a 80 mile round trip work commute, I calculated the gas savings to be about $1,400-$1,500 annually. Not bad.
We bought is because we fell in love with the car as a green vehicle. More importantly, however, this is an in your face to the oil companies and Detroit. We need to improve vehicle mileage in all categories so that we can lower our dependance upon foreign oil.
I intend to buy a Prius for myself in the ext 1-2 years also.
Love that car!
----------
I write:
Before you blather on about giving an 'in your face' to the oil companies and Detroit by buying a Prius, how about cutting your work commute? Eighty miles a day? That's still two gallons of gas a day! Just for work! You sure are a Greenie all right. Smug, yes. Green, no.
That attitude is right up there with Hollywood celebs who tout their environmental hipness by driving a Prius -- right into the garage of their 12,000 sq. ft. air-conditioned mansion.
And does it really 'save' the enviroment when you build a new car? Hate to tell you, but Toyota pours as much [non-permissible content removed] in the air and water as any other car company when they build a car, even your beloved Prius.
Just wanted to clear a bit of smugness out of the air.....
So having a car payment that is $425 a month versus a car payment that is $385 a month is not usually that major of a deal for many people. It's the cost of having a nice, newer model car to drive and to enjoy.
My point is that if you have to pay $3000 more to get a Hybrid Civic versus a non-hybrid Civic EX, and the payment is only $40 more per month, to most people, that's not a deal breaker.
Where the benefit comes in and REALLY GET NOTICED is when you are paying only $700 a year in gas money for the Hybrid instead of $1200 a year in gas money for the gasoline-only car.
Most people take "gas money" out of their budgeted "spending money" for that week or month, right? So spending $58 a month on gas hurts most people a lot less in their everyday budget money than spending $100 a month does.
So you "feel" the hit of the car payment far less, because you have a car payment every month ANYWAY, and you get the tangible benefit of more spending money in your pocket each month because you spend less on fuel.
Even though the hybrid "costs more" in the monthly payment, it costs less in the money that you notice more readily.
And in addition, you get the peace of mind in knowing that upwardly moving gas prices will affect you personally far less it will most people. That's not a tangible benefit, but it is definitely a stress-reducer !!
I calculated the savings in gas costs on our Toyota Prius...Based on 15,000 miles per yr....Our old car got an avg. of 23 MPG in Mixed driving or Prius gets 52 MPG...Our old car used about 652 gallons per Yr. at say 2.80 per Gallon 652 X 2.80 Equal $1825.60 per yr. 15,000 at 52 MPG equal 288 gallons per yr. at $2.80 equal....$806.40 per yr.
The extra $3000 it is claimed we paid for our Prius, Pays off in 3 years... The higher the gas prices the quicker the payoff.
What type of service is required less? Fewer oil changes, fewer air filters, fewer spark plugs,?
...he correctly diagnosed the problem and fixed it. Dealerships GOUGE. They once quoted me a price of $89 to change a brake light!!!!!
You forgot something important, even though the hybrid is more expensive, say, $3,000 more than a regular, the higher price translates into higher resale value. Say you save $2,000 in gas over 4 years, cars depreciates by 50%, you can still sell the car for $1,500 more than a regular car, so overall you'll still be ahead.
I don't understand why so many criticts don't see this, they think the higher MPG does not justify the higher price because the saving is not enough, but how about the re-sale? Not to mention the tax credit, usage of carpool.
I don't understand why so many criticts don't see this, they think the higher MPG does not justify the higher price because the saving is not enough, but how about the re-sale? Not to mention the tax credit, usage of carpool."
You are making assumptions about resale value. There are extensive arguments in the forums about this. You might start with the "great battery debate" forum...
That's a tough argument when it comes to Toyota. I traded in a three year old Rav4 earlier this year that I originally paid $20,000 for and got back $17,000 for it from the dealership. I doubt a hybrid can hold their value any better than that.
Right now, hybrids are going for MSRP (or more) because they are fairly scarce in most areas, demand is waaaay up, competition is lacking and the technology is new. Logic dictates that as competition increases in the next few years, as supply begins to meet demand, and as technology improves, prices will drop under MSRP. What do you think will happen to these guys when you trade them in? They have little chance of holding that original "over MSRP" value.
If there are as many HCH's as there are Honda Civics running around, then factories will tool up, aftermarkets will develop and so will service technicians.
If the numbers aren't there (they aren't now), it doesn't matter how much better the hybrids look on paper, the support system will just not be there and any out-of-waranty work will be very pricey indeed.
And all this talk about resale values holding up are out the window when the support infrastructure isn't there. And they won't be until the hybrids come out of the niche markets and into the mainstream.
1. 100K units out of 17 Million.
2. If the infrastructure is there by Toyota, you will be forced to use their dealers.
That's not new, nor is it a "Hybrid" thing. Modern cars are complicated - if you want the best service with the best trained mechanics FOR YOUR CAR, use the dealer.
For me, it's not an issue because I bought a bump-to-bump 100K warranty when I bought the car. I will trade the car before 100K miles. So why do I care where it gets serviced?
Because the person who buys that used car is going to care; if repair costs are expected to be high, the resale (or trade in) value will be less. Only time will tell. If the hybrid technology takes off even more, then parts will be plentiful. If some of the other technologies become common (low sulfur diesel is probably the biggest possiblity in the near term), then the parts may cost. Most likely, it will be somewhere in between the extremes of either possiblity.
You are making an assumption about hybrid parts availablity and training of hybrid technicians. Maybe both will be common; maybe not. Note also that while hybrids remain so popular, Toyota has little incentive to expand their spare parts or training; the dealers make $$ doing those exclusive repairs.
In other words, an old Prius will be more like repairing both a computer AND a car, and the technician is going to have to be a REAL SMART person. Will anyone that smart want to work in a car dealership?
Time will tell. I'm thinking old hybrids will not be repaired when they have a major breakdown, but recycled. It will not be cost efficient to repair them.
Nothing wrong with disposalibility if there is a really good recycling system set up---maybe even factory buy-back plans, where Toyota can take the old hybrid and shred it into stuff for new hybrids.
I see hybrid technology as strictly interim and short term-- a 10-15 year thing and then a dead end or a morph into something completely new.
- the ICE part is a standard Toyota ICE (sure different transmission), on the Highlander much of the vehicle is the same as the non-hybrid
- it uses advanced electronics/computers, as does any other car you buy, but integrates them even more fully since the computer does much more control of the vehicle (drive by wire). As a comparison, modern passenger jets are fly by wire, so it's not new technology. All can fail, but wires and circuits, well designed and constructed, should be more reliable than mechanical/hydraulic components. Yes, can't tinker in the driveway and maybe you need a dealer to do the service, but reliable means less need for service. I work with technology every day and while I kiddingly say I hate computers in fact the transition to more advanced electronics has made the work I do (video production) better, more efficient and more reliable. It's the same with they HH.
- the other electrical rather than mechanical components - power steering, etc. - are based on electronics and electric motors - again less complicated than the hydraulic/mechanical components they replace and so - designed and manufactured well - they'll be more reliable. Electric motors are amazing, simple things and modern digital control systems are very reliable. Sure, they require skilled persons to work on them, but for the average person who would never consider changing their oil much less doing a valve job what does it matter how the thing works, if it keeps working and is reliable it's a good thing. Electronics tend to just work until they fail, and if their duty cycle is well designed, they'll never fail in the normal life of a product. Mechanicals fail, and that's on any vehicle.
Unlike computers, which are commodities which are cheap and disposable since service labor is expensive - same as just about electronic device today - any vehicle for a long time is far from "disposable" - maybe the batteries in a hybrid need to be replaced eventually, that''s an unknown, but they are replaceable, and even if the cost really is a couple of thousand dollars, that's still a small % of the total purchase price (and I've spend more than that on repairs on a non-hybrid) so while it's a "maybe someday needs to be replaced" thing that is far different from disposable. It's easy to point at the battery pack and say "see, it's disposable" (actually recycleable according to what I've read somewhere) but the rest is so like any other vehicle that's hardly disposable. A part breaks/fails/wears out you fix it, replace it, or trade it in or junk it. Just like with any other vehicle. And some things are actually simpler - the AWD HH is only about $1500 more than FWD and is a lot less complex than standard AWD.
In sum, the hybrid to me was attractive because I found it to be a good application of technology that makes the vehicle more efficient, which reduces our dependence on oil, imported and domestic, reduces direct to the air pollution, and the use of electrical components in some systems is a very positive feature. The Highlander Hybrid specifically serves our needs well and is a great vehicle to boot. If you're looking for a direct return on investment through fuel savings it takes a while, but we keep our vehicles for over 100,000 miles so that's not an issue. Not for everybody, we have our reasons to choose. But to us we're happy with our choice and investment. Definitely the best vehicle I've ever owned. - John
Once they realize you are serious and have the cash...They will find you one....there are lots of toyota dealers just be persistant..
P.S. the kiss of death is to go on a waiting list....Tell them you will buy from the first dealer that can get you the car you want ...Right Color and Features...