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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 20, 2006 8:02 am)
Khds, I think Mr. GT does joust! Comparing a Mustang to a Camry would be akin to us comparing an FJ cruiser to a Volkswagen Beetle. That Cruiser can sure go through hills and boulders but that darn Beetle gets stuck in the mud. Me thinks gt may be from a competing brand and is trying to rain on our parade!
Mackabee
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Wrong. I am NOT from a competing brand and I am NOT trying to rain on your parade. I'm just giving you the facts on what I saw. That's all. I still like the 07 Toyota Camry. My wife is the one who wants to buy one. I would rather drive my Mustangs than the Camry, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to own one. Please don't accuse me of being from a competing brand or of raining on your parade because this is NOT true and that is NOT my intention.
RYAN
Have a great day
Mitch
The XM antenna is added-on later and has to be put in plain view anyway because it takes a stronger signal for satellite radio to work than for the GPS to work.
I recall the IIHS testing a Volvo in the late 90s and the dummy's arms were singed by the gases, so in tests by the IIHS, we know that that kind of sustained injury information is available to consumers, which is a good thing.
Also, of course, cars like the Camry now have multiple levels of deployment severity, factoring in things like seat position, crash severity, and seatbelt usage. This goes for both driver AND passenger airbags.
Airbags, when first introduced were largely beneficial, but had a few significant downsides, especially in lower speed crashes (Thanks, US Gov't!). Now, though, those risks have been largely mitigated through the changes mentioned above....
~alpha
Navigation is listed as $1200, but it requires the JBL bluetooth stereo on the SE which is about another $1000. The JBL stereo is already added to the base price of XLEs.
Then you will never find one that isn't also loaded with leather and everything else, so you have to add the cost of all the other bundled options that are not really required according to the brochures, but just are that way in real life because that's the way they are always sent by the factory.
They do not do custom orders. You can "order" an XLE 4 cylinder with cloth seats and navigation since that combination of options is available according to the brochures option lists, but the order is really only a request to redirect the next one that happens to get built that way to that dealership and may never be filled.
Tidewater
The SE V6 and XLE V6 would be about $2,000 more.
These prices are ~$300 over dealer invoice.
Can't build a Northwest package of the SE 4 cyl (manual or Auto) with NAV.
XM receiver mounted vertically in the trunk.
Done at the Port, area facility or dealer.
Mitch
Even the Mazda 3 has that...
Congratulations on your Japanese made Camry. You will love it.
Before saying that, you really ought to go look at the build sticker on Japan-built Camrys. They are made from 75% American parts, the same mix as those made in USA, i.e., they are made from the same parts!
Yep, they ship the parts to Japan, assemble them, and reship it all back to America, which explains why Toyota will build as few Camrys in Japan as possible.
Hey, I just, gasp!, ordered a Pontiac EXACTLY the way I wanted it. The factory built it. No problemo. Now I drive it.
Right now, for some models in some areas it looks like there are only one or 2 possible combinations of factory-installed options per trim line being delivered to dealers and your only other choice beyond that is to pick a color.
Of course there is no shortage of pricey port and dealer-installed options to add-on to the cars.
Enjoy your Pontiac.
Customers wanting specialized vehicles do have the option of buying from the smaller specialized nameplates like Pontiac and Mazda. Everyone is happy.
This opinion reminds me of the same rascist superiority thinking that was prevalent almost 70 years ago on the European continent.
So now - deja vu - gas is $3+ a gallon, and the 'Detroit' mfgrs. still can't seem to manufacture a competitive 4 or 6 cylinder engine in cars that are reasonably well put together; and, of course, do not have the money anymore to do anything with product development (further sealing their fate). And although it may somehow make the consumer feel good to be able to buy a car at a few thousand dollars under invoice, I assure you that it does GM/Ford/Chrysler no good at all. Then, those same buyers wonder why that same 'deal car' has lost outrageous portions of its value shortly after leaving the showroom. The Koreans, after a few yeats of teething problems can seemingly make cars now competitive to many of the Japanese makes, but not so with GM/Ford/Chrysler.
I'll contend that there are a number of us in this country that would prefer to buy American, if quality and value were even close. Which, of course, it hasn't been in over 30 years - and the current financial predicaments would seem to indicate that this will go on for another 30 - at which point the Chinese will probably own the US market.
Well put. With a well equipped family sedan @ nearly 30K and up, you have to make intelligent choices. I understand the US makers got caught with their pants down in the mid 70's, but they've had 3 decades to catch up, and haven't done so. My only conclusion is they simply don't care.
They've narrowed the gap, but they still build whatever they want & expect us to dutifully go out and buy it.
With Toyota now ranked #1 (fewest problems) by some consumer agencies, it only makes sense to go with the best.
Why is it that you disagree with me about this. Quality control is a joke for any Japanese cars that are built here in the U.S.. Quality control exists, but it's not 100% effective in US. Toyota plants. And it's not 100% effective because Japanese U.S. manufacturing Toyota plants avoid "fixing" things to avoid higher production costs. Cars that are built in Japan do NOT have this issue because the Japanese use more care in the manufacturing process. Americans who build Japanese cars here in the U.S. do NOT care about this. They try to make the car 90% hogh quality and they leave out the 10% quality. It's the 10% quality that does NOT exist in the building process of a Japanese car that's built here in the U.S. which I am referring to here. If Toyota wants to build cars here in the U.S., it should correct this problem by using the same exact materials that they use in their manufacturing process in Japan and to also fix any problems that exists on theor cars "BEFORE" they are let out of the manufacturing plant. This is what they do NOT do and this is what I am complaining about. It seems that a lot of people in here do NOT want to believe this, but this is what is really going on with all Japanese cars which are built here in the U.S..
Refer to my profile: I've had 4 Camry's since 1989 and in driving them in excess of 500,000+ miles ( more than 30,000 mi/yr ) I've never encountered anything like what you state. In someone else's uninformed world you might sound like you knew what you were talking about. But not here on this forum. Pullleeze.
Just by saying it over and over doesnt' make it true.
You were lucky to not have a Camry that was built with cheap materials and to not have any fit and finish quality problems.
The materials that Toyota uses to build their Camrys here in the U.S. is complete "JUNK". And the Kentucky manufacturing plant does NOT do what the Japanese plants do in order to have high quality materials and build quality on the U.S. built Camrys. This goes for all the rest of the Toyota cars that are also built here in the U.S. too. U.S. built Honda and Nissan cars have the same problems.
You get the point. As for me I've bigger things to worry about. I'ts still a Toyota for Pete sake!!!
I currently use a Sirius S50 in my 1993 Camry - works very well and no reception problems. Antenna (1.5 inch diameter flat disk) is outside car on roof near front windshield on the corner on the passenger side. From Sirius forums I've heard that inside installation of antenna creates reception problems.
I have had Accords, Volvos, and other cars: this US made Camry is among the best I have owned. I know people who work at US sub contractors who make parts for US companies as well as Toyota. They say that the standards that Toyota has for parts are higher than what the US companies require. Standards are standards, whether a part is made here or in Japan. What you are saying is that Toyota is using lower standards for US made cars that for Japan made. I don't believe that.
IMHO..........
For what it is worth, I have been an owner of Toyotas for many, many years. They are not perfect, no car is. In 1992, I bought my first Camry (not my first Toyota). We had the choice of US built or Japanese built vehicles at that time. We thought the same as you...that the Japaneae ones HAD TO BE BETTER...RIGHT??? Well..after looking over several examples of both, we purposely chose the US built one..why? simple...the molded carpets didn't fit the floor as well on the Japanese ones, and the sunvisors were very obviously inferior to the US built ones. Much skinnier, and much more flimsey.
Based on our satisfaction with the 92 US built Camry, we later went to buy a 93 Camry. We again did the same process to determine if we cared which country of origin to choose for our 2nd Camry (which was an additional vehicle..not replacing the 92). We again choose a US built one.
In 2003, we set out to buy another Camry, an SE. This time, we again faithfully did our research, and couldn't see any difference between the Japanese and US builds. We ended up with a US built, just accidently, BTW and have had ZERO reason to bring it to the dealer, other than oil changes in 40,000 miles.
If you are so sure of your comments about the quality of the US built Camrys, provide some varifiable facts documented by credible sources, and (IMHO) I believe all here will then agree with you. Until that time, I believe that you are fighting a loosing battle. Again IMHO.
I don't want to pile on but...I have a few questions.
You say: "I know quite a few people who "DID" have problems with American built Camrys"
How many people exactly? 20? 30? Let's say you actually know 30 people who own American made Camrys. Lets go a step farther and say, every one of them had a problem. Does it mean that ALL American Camrys are bad?
You say: "The materials that Toyota uses to build their Camrys here in the U.S. is complete "JUNK"."
How do you know this? Do you personally inspect ALL materials that go into the American Camrys? If so, what is your frame of reference?
You continue: "And the Kentucky manufacturing plant does NOT do what the Japanese plants do in order to have high quality materials and build quality on the U.S. built Camrys. This goes for all the rest of the Toyota cars that are also built here in the U.S. too. U.S. built Honda and Nissan cars have the same problems."
How do you know this? Have you personally been to The Japanese assembly plants where ALL Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans are built, and directly compared their processes and procedures to their American counter parts?
If you've answered "no" to any of these questions, then you might be able see why other readers of these forums might be a little skeptical of your...thinking.