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On another topic, I don't know why folks are jumping down each others throats - it's just a minivan. Is the fading daylight getting on people's nerves? Whatever it is, please cut it out.
Steve, Host
The Ultimate Fairly Inexpensive Driving Machine
Steve, Host
Come to think of it, weren't the original Honda and Toyota vehicles also little, cheap "entry-level" items?
The Odyssey has been the most successful minivan after Chrysler
had great success in the early 1980's when they modernized the idea that Volkswagen introduced.
Kia - yes, the little Kia Sedona - introduced the dash-mounted shifter. Then Toyota copied that (added the gated), and then Nissan & Honda.
Kia Sedona was also the first to offer a 5-speed tranny in a minivan - except if you count the 1997 Aerostar. Then it was adopted at Mazda MPV, and only then copied by Honda, Toyota and Nissan.
Puddle lamps - lamps below the exterior mirrors is a nice feature found on the Ford Freestar and Nissan Quest. And both, Freestar and Quest, offer cornering lamps on many models of their minivans. Both useful features not found on Sienna or Ody.
Oh, and BTW, if Honda didn't want to copy Chrysler's stow-n-go 2nd row seats (b/c it's uncomfortable), why didn't they at least copy the Nissan Quest, to make the seats 'almost' flat?
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BMW minivan:
Do you know that BMW has a very bad reliability reputation according to Consumer Reports? Not to start a new argument if CR itself is reliable or not; but everybody knows that BMW has a lot of recalls and sits very much time at the Mechanic.
I know, it's b/c all those gazillion gadgets and 'cool' features (att: Andrewtran71), and so are most Audi & Mercedes models. subpar reliability.
So a good suggestion: Why think about a BMW minivan for $50,000 without reliability, when you can get for $40,000 most of the BMW features with exceptional reliability?
Just my $.02
However, the Kia Sedona has won acclaim by OPEC for being the most gas guzzling minivan even with the 5 speed automatic.
The Odyssey has always been at the top or near the top in fuel economy.
I'd rather have the ability to move the seats side by side as in the Odyssey and Sienna than fold them flat into the floor (or nearly flat). I've never had a need for more space than folding the third row down allows (and if I did, I can still remove the second row seats), but I frequently have a need to make the third row easy to access, which it isn't when people have to duck, get into the van, and squeeze in between the second row seats. I view folding second row seats as a negative rather than a positive.
Thank you.
I just wanted to point out that Honda Ody doesn't have EVERYTHING, and therefor all other vans out there are trash.
I personally wish to be able to slide together the seats to perform a bench, it gives you easier access to the rear seat, and gives you room for another suitcase when needed.
All navi cars for 2005 comes with single cd disc. No cd changer.
For 2005 Sienna has upgrade the navi to 4th generation. Hence is now has matched odyssey on ease of search. However, due to legal issues that toyota perceives, it still does not allow input to the navi while in motion. In addition, sienna already has voice command build in with the nav and on limited its already prewired for voice (need to add a button plus mic- all plug n' play). The difference between sienna and odyssey on the navi front is shrinking.
However, the current odyssey is not perfect either. Lack of HID with manual height adjustment, overall interial material quality is lacking, way too much engine noise in the cabin (sienna has similar problem when push hard on the top end), and poor 3rd design.
Either van has its short coming. You would think that at 40k that both honda and toyota would make a perfect van.
I had more problem with hondas i owned through out the year than I did with BMW. Toyota on the other hand is really trouble free. Boring to drive, but super reliable.
I have posted many time on my trouble with honda in the past. i will post again.
1st honda- 1992 leafgreen metallic LX- trouble free except for warped rotor and pads at 10k miles. car was wrecked in front end collision and SRS failed to function.
2nd honda- 1994 Sage green metallic EX- blown A/C compressor, ABS module failure, warped brakes.
3rd honda- 1998 heather mist metallic LX-V6. Trouble free.
4th honda- 2000 laguna green TL, deformed windshield trims, broken center console, tranmission recall, 3 set of brakes due to warpage, numerous rattle (unfixable).
Oh, C'mon Steve.
At least you can come home each night and tell your wife, "Honey, you wouldn't believe the things people say on this forum!"
But anyways, it only happens Monday-Thursday. It stops Fri, Sat, Sun, and Holidays:-)
Oh, no. Great. There goes my thought of getting a beemer van since reliability is my number one factor.
Okay, Steve, any teasers on Lexus/Acura minivans?
Please say there's something out there!
This should show that the performance of the vehicles is much closer than the 25 BHP difference would predict due to the fact that the Odyssey is much heavier.
In its favor the Odyssey did get better mileage than the Sienna when comparing the Motorweek tests.
A Sienna with FWD would be several hundred pounds lighter and should be faster than the AWD van.
How much better was it?
The XLE AWD Sienna is about 250 - 300 lbs less than the Odyssey Touring.
I believe that Toyota's numbers give the FWD model about a 0.5 second advantage in 0-60 over the AWD model (8.3 vs 8.8).
The one thing I noted in my test drive of all three vans (Sienna, Quest, Odyssey) was that at part throttle applications, the Sienna felt very strong. I assume this has something to do with the lower torque peak of 3,600 rpms for the Sienna versus the higher rpms of the Odyssey and Quest.
I thought they were all great drivers though.
The American International Automobile Dealers Association says the top-of-the-line Odyssey Touring model is so luxurious that it’s practically an Acura.
I want to know which one is the Sedona of minivans (I'm still struggling with $30k minivans, much less $40k ones!).
Steve, Host
The American International Automobile Dealers Association says the top-of-the-line Odyssey Touring model is so luxurious that it’s practically an Acura."
Have these people seen the Hertz Car Rental commercial?
NOT EXACTLY!
I'm sure BMW would just love if somebody says, "The Ody is PRACTICALLY a BMW rebadged and reshaped as a minivan".
Just because they "wanted" the Ody to drive like a BMW doesn't mean it drives like a BMW.
Fact is, the Ody is a Honda and the Sienna is a Toyota, and people need to just leave it at that.
Why is that all car rentals (Hertz, Avis, etc.) do not have Toyota or Honda mini vans. They only have American junk like Chevy Venture or Pont Montana. If a resale value in general is so good on transplant vehicles, why not have them for a rental car? Thank you!
Mazda needs to change their slogan to:
"PAY MORE - EXPECT LESS"
Apparently American brands ACTUALLY COST LESS TO OPERATE when everything is considered. Or is the answer that American brands are more comfortable?
I feel that the Honda Odyssey is THE BEST minivan but I am not a purchaser for rental companies.
Steve, Host
I really need to borrow a van for an hour to take it home and find out.
Can anyone supply width for Sienna and Ody? I really want to know mirror tip->tip. I believe the published width is w/o mirrors.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
To be fair I got EX cloth because I really could not accept idea of PAX. After reading some recent reports on VCM engine vibrations at high speeds I ruled out buying a Ody EX-L.
At cloth level both vans are very similar. With Sienna you can't have two power doors, but Sienna has other advantages (3rd row windows can be opened and so on). Price wise/value Sienna is actually better (IMHO).
I liked Ody design better, but that's subjective and will vary from person to person.
At higher end models Honda messed up with VCM and PAX. They choose not to use these technologies on say Acura. Why? Because they are new and expiremental Nobody knows how reliable and useful these items will be?
Suggested road test conditions: should be driving on freeway between 65 and 80 mph, with all windows/doors propersly closed, and radio/RES/wife/kids all turned off.
Thank you!
I'm not sure how you would think it as a negative addition. If you have a family with kids, you will appreciate the folding seat. When you have kids, you have groceries and you have shopping. I have my Quest for 5 months now. In the five months, I had to fold down the seats 5 times. When we go shopping, there are times that we have buy things unplanned. These stuff can sometimes take up space. That's when the folding seat comes in handy.
The folding seat is a convenience, not a necessity. However, when you have the need to use it, it is becomes important, or you could use your both arms to carry those seats out and pray that you don't break your back.
Nissan did a comparison of the second seat for Sienna and Quest. It says that Sienna second seat, although can be moved, can easiy scratch and damage the plastic that covers it.
In fact, it does allow input, at least at low speed, as I did once while driving from the parking lot onto the street.
One thing the salesperson said is new in '05 is the adjustable arm rests.
I belive that part of the problem is the liner at the bottom of the windshield. Sometimes it's not properly installed. This was the case with my car. I demanded that they fixed it and they fixed it in 5 min.
0-60: Ody 8.7 s, Sienna 8.4 s
1/4 mile: Ody 16.8s @ 85 mph; Sienna 16.6s @ 76(?) mph
60-0: Ody 130 ft; Sienna 135 ft
Ave MPG: Ody 22; Sienna 20
Don
Did they have any interior noise level data?
Seems to me like the new Ody is "too Toyota-like":-)
I mean, it's slower, has better fuel economy, and is now very quiet.
Hmmm, Ody EX-L w/NAV+RES for $34,600 MSRP.
This means by next year, I could be driving one for $31K. Not bad.
Afterall, it is "practically an Acura" :-) Just kidding***hee**hee
All that said, unless Motorweek corrects for atmospheric conditions (temp, barometric pressure, and humidity), you can't read too much into those numbers since the two tests were done months apart. For all we know, the Sienna may have been tested under better conditions, or the Ody when it was hot and humid. The ONLY time I'll try to draw conclusions from comparing acceleration times is if the vehicles were tested at the same time (same conditions), and by the same driver if possible.
I'm still awaiting a C&D back to back comparison test before I draw any conclusions about which is quicker.
One thing for sure: the 25hp advantage the Ody has doesn't seem to translate into any real street benefit.....but it is interesting that the heavier, more powerful vehicle DID get 10% better mileage than the Sienna.
The actual tests were probably a year and a half apart; both were done just after public release.
Likewise the braking test could have been done with different surface conditions even if at the same track.
The better mileage is due to the VCM system; I believe the non-VCM Ody is behind the Sienna in mileage.
Also, the Big 3 captive finance companies also helped with fleet financing. I am not sure if the Big 3 were really big if you stripped out fleet sales.
Sienna FWD: 19/26
Sienna AWD: 18/24
Odyssey w/o VCM: 19/25
Odyssey with VCM: 20/28
In the grand scheme of things, you'd save about $700 over 100,000 miles by choosing the Odyssey VCM over the non-VCM (assuming 50/50 city/highway and gas at $2 per gallon). Obviously you'd save a little more if you drive mostly on the highway, but even at 100% highway miles you'd only save another $150 (VCM vs. non-VCM & $2 per gallon). Potential buyers might want to consider this when they decide?
However, the Motorweek review only mentions mileage based on regular fuel.
Another example of how engineers have lost touch with the real world of owners.
Chrysler made a goof with 2nd row "Stow-N-Go". Buyers of luxury minivans don't want to be stranded by not having a spare or having the ability to turn their luxury minivan into a cargo van.
I didn't know that they still made cars without DRL.