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Comments
It doesn't matter whether the application would ever actually be used with that element disabled, it's just a method of identifying the cause of the trouble.
In any case, the poster is on the right course with the scheduled appointment. It doesn't seem likely that there is a way to disable power steering nor does it seem that it is something that should be undertaken by an owner. IOW, he shouldn't be trying that at home.
It's just different after 40 yrs of being used to something else.
Every new product coming out will have EPS in one form or another. It's simpler, lighter and more dependable.
I doubt there's an actual mechanical failure taking place; I think its just that people come to expect some steering feel, weight, and feedback, and the EPS has turned the Corolla's steering from numb (2003-2008) to video-game numb (2009-).
I'm actually amazed, and a little speechless at your post. I want to say so much, but I don't think you'll get it, so I'll just stop. I honestly don't intend any offense here, but..geez, I just don't know what to say. Just to show that everyday people (not just Race-Car style Car Magazine Editors) know that this system is substandard, here's some driving thoughts from consumers who tested the Corolla, listed right here on Edmunds. Men and women of all ages drove them.
The Corolla is what I'd describe as a soft ride — soft suspension, soft pedals, more body roll than the Honda Civic and Mazda3 and on the acceleration test. I didn't feel like I had much contact with the road. It felt very unstable at higher speeds. It also had the cheapest feel — it didn't even have cruise control. We made the mistake of flipping the visor up and were amused to hear a "tin can" sound that carried over to the doors. While floor mats were standard on the other models, mats for the Corolla add $199 to the bill.
++++
3rd place (a very, very distant 3rd place): Bringing up the rear, we have the Toyota Corolla. This thing handles like it's in a bowl of Jell-o and has seats only a grandmother could love. Every time I got into this car I couldn't help but think I was riding in a rolling La-Z-Boy. But maybe that's your thing, maybe you want some super-soft seats and you're more concerned with where you're going than how you got there. If that's the case, then the Corolla may be for you. Just remember that it's severely lacking in the fun department.
All that body roll, mushy brake feel and sloppy steering could be forgiven if it managed to be the serene mini-Camry it wants to be. But alas, this thing's engine makes you hear every awful decibel in the cabin. And get this: no cruise control. That's right, the only car here not to come standard with it was the Corolla. And for a car destined to be clogging up left lanes everywhere as a daily commuter, that seems like a big misstep. - 27 years old
++++
Driving dynamics match the rest of the package. Off-the-line response is sluggish, as the engine doesn't hit its sweet spot until 3,000 rpm and things get almost farm implement-buzzy at about 5,000 rpm. Vague steering and substantial body lean don't inspire confidence, especially in an emergency situation. Although braking performance seemed decent, the pedal felt it would be pushed through the floor. - 40 years old
++++
This Corolla is aimed at its traditional customer: the (now-aging) baby boomer. As the customer got older, softer and larger, so did the Corolla.
This Corolla brings the "full-sized car" experience to an efficient smaller package. Unfortunately, that experience brings with it the craptacular road behavior of a mid-'90s big car as well. Clearly sporty road manners were never mentioned by Toyota's focus groups. I recommend the Corolla be driven at the legal limit at all times. It really feels loose and disconnected. - 48 years old
++++
The Toyota had the best manners of the three. It drives like a mini Buick — soft and cushy. There is less noise and less jostle than the other two autos. I felt less in control in this car than the others, as it has a loose steering feel. The ride is so soft, I felt like the car was not in total control on bumps and rises. Toyota saved 30 cents by mounting the outside mirror controls inconveniently low on the dashboard instead of on the door armrest, where they belong. Ease of entry and exit is poorest of these three cars. - 68 years old
What's worth noting is that every review says essentially the same thing. That's not an accident.
You obviously aren't reading my posts (which makes me wonder if you're just blindly replying to me without thinking it over). I blatantly said that I "doubt it is a mechanical failure." :sick:
I think it is a poorly tuned system. The Corolla is obviously not the only car on the market with EPS, and others happen to have some road feel. By the way, can ya link me to those sales numbers? I'd love to see them.
People buy Toyotas because they want a comfortable, reliable ride. They deliver. The Camry LE/XLE doesn't have EPS, but still is devoid of any driving fun or steering feel. It's not a Corolla-only thing. It's inherent in Toyota's tuning.
But the way it's set up for example in the Corolla is intentional. Why? This has been rehashed over and over and over again in this thread. The Corolla is not a curve-carver. It is not intended to compete with the Mazda3 or Si. It is only intended to do one thing, that is to appeal to the largest number of buyers looking for a very efficient, inexpensive, low maintenance, traditional vehicle that will endure long miles and long years and get the owner from point a to point b................and most importantly..... to make a profit.
It has no other function in life.
For those wanting or needing more 'feel' or more 'fun' or more power or more room there are many other vehicles available. The Corolla is directed toward one very large segment. It succeeds as terceltom notes by actual the number of sales it makes.
This is marketing. Toyota has identified a need, or if you want to put it another way a 'lack of needs', and it has created the Corolla to meet this demand - intentionally. By the sheer numbers of Corolla's sold Toyota is correct.
But then so are all of you, individually. Isn't this a great country? :shades:
And, I told you why I didn't buy a Toyota, because it is geared towards buyers that like the comfy ride and couldn't care less about driving fun.
Having said all that, I'll ask this:
Is the Corolla going to get anything more than a 4-speed automatic anytime soon? Any rumors on an upgrade flying around?
Issues seem to get addressed incrementally in order of importance. Regarding the Corolla the issues were implementing the new 1ZR 1.8L engine, addressing the seating / steeringwheel issue, making a quieter environment, adding new safety equipment, increasing interior room, all while maintaining fuel economy at the top of the class and keeping prices low enough to appeal to the targetted buying segment.......and to make a profit doing so.
The 4 speed AT is a non-issue with the targetted demographic.
But the direction is clearly toward 5 AT's in the near future along with a Valvematic enhancement which already being used in the JDM versions of the Corolla. New features begin there and migrate to the other markets ( iron out the bugs too ). My personal guess is that at the 3 yr refresh in MY 2012 we might see the 5 AT + Valvematic. At the latest I'd guess 2014 in the 'all new' Corolla.
As a case in point, I know of at least one other compact econocar with EPS on which the steering feel is tuned differently for different markets, e.g. a softer feel for the U.S., and a firmer feel for the European market and at least some AP markets including Australia. It was a pretty easy change to make, e.g. a couple of engineers went down to Australia when there were published road tests that trashed the steering feel of the car, and the engineers made an in-the-field update to the EPS that improved the steering feel greatly.
So it IS possible, and pretty easily/cheaply. That leads me to believe that you are correct in saying the disconnected steering feel on the Corolla is intentional, that is, that Toyota thinks Americans LIKE our small cars to feel that way. But I suggest that the Corolla's strong sales are not BECAUSE of its steering feel, but IN SPITE OF its steering feel, i.e. there are enough people who either don't mind the way the steering feels or overlook it because they like other things about the Corolla.
Anyway, since it appears the steering feel is intentional, that is where posts like those from thegraduate and others who don't care for the Corolla's steering feel are useful and should be encouraged rather than shoved aside by Toyota fans. If no one complains about the steering feel, Toyota has no reason to make a change. And I suspect Toyota and other manufacturers do monitor these forums. At least we know for sure that many Toyota employees monitor these forums, and they are in a position to send the feedback to the company.
I think that Toyota has made a production decision based on marketing input for the targetted demographic. It's intentional. For that demographic the EPS is a non-issue as is the 5 AT. Other features need addressing first.
No one is shoving anyone's opinion aside. As noted previously everyone's view is correct. That's why there are so many choices in the market. But the view that the EPS is somehow 'wrong' or 'bad' is only a personal view of certain people that want something else. The current design is 'correct' and 'good' for the drivers for whom the vehicle's intended. The volume of sales validates those production/marketing decisions.
As I said in the beginning everybody's view is correct. It only depends on one's personal preferences. I'm certain that all these discussion are monitored on a regular basis by all the vehicle makers. These are the new 'focus groups' if you will. But in the case of enthusiast sites such as herein the population is not indicative of the general population so that bias has to be taken into account.
Okay here I go again!
With the exception of the sentence where you write that "it appears that the steering feel is intentional" I have to disagree with your posting. You insinuate that most Americans don't like our small cars to drive and steer easy and that Toyota is wrong in their thinking that we do. I couldn't disagree with you more. We are the age of "easy". If it drives easy, affords easy, repairs easy and STEERS easy, people will buy it and love it. Why is it so hard for some of you people to get it through your heads that most 2009 Corolla owners ACTUALLY LIKE this new EPS technology and like the feel of the car and will buy it because of this steering amongst other factors, and not IN SPITE of it as you write? Thank God the Toyota Engineers know what drivers want are willing to come up with new technology like EPS steering to bring us out of the dark ages where some of you feel secure in your thinking as well as your driving. Come on, where's your sense of adventure? Perhaps we should go all the way back to manual steering and rear wheel drive like I had in my 1979 Corolla. Loved that car, but what a truck to turn!
No. I suggest that a large number of Americans, if not a majority, like to have a higher degree of steering feel than what the 2009 Corolla provides.
Driving "easy" is different from driving "numb". I don't think we need to go back to manual steering to get a steering feel that is "easy" enough for folks like you and has enough precision and control for people who like that quality in a car. Other manufacturers have found combination to be possible. Toyota is fully capable of doing it too, if not on the entire Corolla lineup then maybe on just the sport-oriented XRS as I suggested.
My sense of adventure doesn't include a car that wanders around the road and requires a great deal of attention to keep pointed straight on a straight road, as some have expressed here. That isn't "easy" driving for me. I guess your definition of "easy" and my definition are different.
"My sense of adventure doesn't include a car that wanders around the road and requires a great deal of attention to keep pointed straight on a straight road, as some have expressed here".
I'm going to assume that both of the above two statements were based on other peoples oppinions because a 2009 Corolla is not in your current inventory of cars, correct?
Actually, when I drove the car I didn't notice anything I would call a "problem" with the steering. It wasn't precise like some other small cars, and I would prefer more steering feel, but it didn't wander all over the road either. But I don't want to summarily dismiss the opinions of those Corolla owners who think there's a problem with the steering. It could just be a reaction to how the car handles vs. what they are used to, or it could be a defect in some number of cars.
I think the 2009 Corolla is a nice little car in many ways, but not a car I care to own. With a few tweaks, I'd consider it though.
VERY true. Nissan, for awhile, has always had steering that was too light for my personal tastes, but it is at least communicative. You can have overboosted steering that is communicative (like in the last older Nissan I drove) and you can have heavily weighted steering that offers little in the way of feel (Pontiac comes to mind here).
By "easy" I assume we're all referring to the physical effort it takes to move the wheel? I am. Just making sure we're on the same page.
MNF
Sure is. Those that have driven it and don't like the way this particular EPS system and suspension tuning is set up, probably wouldn't spend close to 20 grand on it. Just because the negative opinions aren't from owners don't mean they aren't valid.
Again, I listen to both. I can tell if a car handles well on a 20 minute test drive. It doesn't take 20k miles to figure out "hey, this car has fantastic handling" or not, unless your car's handling has changed in that 20k miles. Has it?
If you owned a business and were going to hire an employee, who would you hire? All other things being equal, the person that did that particular job for ten minutes or the person who has the experience of doing that job for a year and a half?
Sorry, your analogy doesn't work for me, in this case. Handling doesn't change in 10 miles or 10k miles, unless you're really hard on the car! :shades: It's a known entity once you've been around the block (literally) a few times. Drive it at different speeds, on different surfaces for a little while. It doesn't take a year of ownership to know what the car is like, unless you're a little slow.
Handling is sound, but not particularly agile. The steering is a bit light and rather vague on center. Body lean is not excessive, but the car isn't engaging to drive. The Corolla was secure at its handling limits thanks to its optional ESC, but it posted just a modest speed in our avoidance maneuver.
Highs: Fuel economy, ride, quiet interior, turning circle, controls, available electronic stability control.
Lows: Steering feel, fit and finish, no dedicated clock display.
-- From CR, July 2008.
For all of you drivers contemplating the purchase of a new 2009 or 2010 new Toyota Corolla "go for it". You will be pleasantly surprised how good this car actually is. There is no economy car on the road that can come close to it in shifting smoothness or sound control. The climate control is excellent and the safety is top notch. The stability control and traction control are very functional additions and will be standard in 2010. The steering ease in this vehicle is unmatched by any make out there. There is no that steers with the ease and comfort of the new Toyota Corolla. This car has just been rated in the top ten of all economy cars in the April issue of Consumer Reports for Best Cars Under $20,000 something the Honda Civic can't even brag about. The rear leg room is most accomodating and the flat floor in the back is unmatched by any economy car. Gas miliage is great. SO GO AHEAD, WHO DO YOU WANT TO BELIEVE? A NON-OWNER OR SOMEONE WHO NOW OWNS THIS NEW 2009 COROLLA FOR A YEAR AND HAS PUT IT THROUGH THE TEST.
Do you think I am :
A Local Police Evidence Collector for the Emmaus Pa. Police Dept.
or maybe
A Veterinary Nurse for Peaceable Kingdom Cat Rescue of Whitehall Pa.
or maybe even
A Senior Econometrician with Toyota Financial Services Based in Los Angeles, CA
Sorry, but I can't help but play'in with ya now!
Ohhhh, i get it now. I post something you don't like, and it doesn't count because I don't own it, and is qualified as useless "bashing."
the flat floor in the back is unmatched by any economy car.
Like the flat floor the Civic has offered for nearly a decade?
For all of you drivers contemplating the purchase of a new 2009 or 2010 new Toyota Corolla "go for it".
How about "drive it and its competitors, and decide for yourself which best fits your needs/wants?
And, why all the yelling at the end of your post? Guess we won't know why since you're through bashing me for disagreeing with ya over the handling merits of an economy car (or at least claim to be). You don't think its silly? I do, but I'm not leaving the forum just because you want me to do so. I'm not making it personal.
1-Toyota Corolla was RECOMMENDED by Consumer Reports with a check
2-The Corolla is one of the best riding small cars, and it soaks up bumps well. Its cabin is quiet, except for relatively mild road and wind noise, and a smooth engine hum. ( the previous sentence that you left out)
BY CR 2009
MNF
I did say I thought the Corolla has many good points. It's just that I don't think steering feel is one of them.