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But that's the problem. It was all plastic and built exactly like a Corolla or Camry. It would never survive actual off-road use without something breaking if you did more than tapped it. Given the side "wings" on the bumper, the one that had snapped off was clearly production-level equipment as you could see the broken fasteners where it has been held in place(ie - not plastic and glue). The plastic headlamp lenses had the proper DOT symbols on them. The mounting points where the front grill screwed into the front of the vehicle were complete, right down to the last detail. The exterior of the car was 100% what we'll see barring a stoppage of the work and a total redesign of the exterior.
(sorry for the image sizes - I compressed them as much as possible)
Tough as a rock. Glass everywhere and aluminum galore on the bumpers. In fact, nothing was plastic that you se in the picture other than the turn signal lenses.
Built like a tin can by comparison. Plastic everything. Built for flashy looks. If it's not painted blue in this picture, it's plastic.
Note the broken off piece. Note the way the grill fastens into the rest of the body. That will never survive any sort of off-roading impact any better than the ~2mph rating it has on the bumpers would suggest. Certainly not without serious and costly damage.
I tapped my knuckles on it and it sounded completely hollow and well, like a typical sedan. But it's a 4*4. It should be built tougher. I know for a fact that an old 1990s F150 was built tougher - the older square ones had real bumpers and metal everywhere.
It's well over ten years later and the new FJ - you can't stand on the bumper?!? Surely with a paltry 18mpg, you can toss in another 50lbs of metal on the bumpers? No way that passes as "off-road" in my book. I'd take a Jeep anyday, or even an XTerra.
1) Decrease the weight and thus increase the mileage
2) Make it more pleasant for a pedestrian colliding with the truck
3) Prod you into buying an optional brush guard
#2 I could possibly buy, but the U.S. has no regulations about this in place, like the E.U. has., so aluminum, which is a far cry from even steel, like on older trucks, is something that should be there at the least.
#3: heh - though I saw no mounting places for such a thing - at least not other than where you'd expect cosmetic ones to be(covering the plastic lenses and plastic grille and so on).
All in all, it was a nice truck. But it was plainly a yuppie status symbol and not built to survive anything more than mountain trails and the occasional dry stream crossing and the like. Sad, really. Compare it to an older Defender 90 - that's what a true hardcore off-road vehicle should be built like.
The brush guard is on the list of options for FJ. Check out toyota.com
Perhaps, you are right about the yuppie status symbol. Likely, the vast majority of FJ owners won't take their truck to any bumper-threatening trail. For the serious off-roaders, there will be plenty of options to add armour, however
In fact, this could be a theme of all manufacturers - to bring back proper bumpers. Save us some grief. My dad's mid-90s Park Avenue has proper bumpers on it and it gets the same mileage as the new vehicle. Aluminum isn't more than a few pounds heavier, and we're talking about 2% of the FJ's weight here. Not enough to make a blip in fuel economy. Toyota(and al the rest) are just being cheap and causing us hefty repair bills.
There arent many vehicles that Toyota makes that get 'tanked'. I'd be shocked that with their marketing and production that they'd allow a balsa wood offroader into the market. Despite your valid concerns I think I'll wait for the first real world trip reports.
Given the crowd they are aiming at, it's going to get way more physical abuse to the exterior than your typical yuppie commuter SUV. Jeep at least has this right - metal is good because it can handle a lot of minor abuse and still look good. And this crowd of hard-core off-roaders don't like things that break easily. It's their #1 turnoff, in fact.
CR is going to have a field-day in its bumper basher tests I can guarantee. "The whole front end crumpled"... "I can't believe this much damage occurred for what is supposedly a serious off-road vehicle"...
But we'll see. Toyota can't always have a big hit everytime, though, and I think they missed their intended market with this one by not thinking "old school" enough.
i'm sure under all the plastic styling pieces, there is a perfectly stout and safe bumper structure.
But I agree, all those plastic covers will get mangles in REAL offroading.
I dont know if anyone is interested, and many of you may already be aware of this, but you can now build an FJ Cruiser on the Toyota website. It is a pretty cool function. If anyone has any questions about how to get to it, just ask!
~Jackie
Thank you!
I found this... Hope it helps a little bit.
TOYOTA FJ CRUISER VEHICLE PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS
POWERTRAIN
4.0 Liter V6 – 245 hp /282 torque
5-speed automatic
Available 6-speed manual in 4x4
DIMENSIONS (inches)
Overall Length: 177.6
Overall Width: 74.6
Overall Height: 70.9
Wheelbase: 105.9
Ground Clearance: 9.6
Wheels: 17 inches black steel wheels w/full size spare
Available alloy wheels (5)
Tire Size: 265/70R17
Towing Capacity: 5,000 lbs.
Seating Capacity: 5
Look at the Wrangler. Even though it's not a serious bumper like the old days, it's small, close-in, and doesn't stick out where it can catch things or have parts of it snap off.
But go see a FJ in person in a few weeks. And then decide if you think it is built tough enough.
(I'm also on the fj_cruiser@yahoogroups.com message board, and there isn't a lot of traffic there, please sign up!)
Saw the FJ Cruiser "live" at the LA Auto show, and am seriously thinking of signing up for the waiting list.
I'm a bit of a car-head. Mainly I've owned Land Rovers; my current vehicle is a 1998 Discovery, but I've owned a bunch of the older Series IIs (1960s era). I also have a Pinzgauer and a Haflinger; check my photo gallery at http://www.obtainium.org/gallery/vehicles I like to actually take my trucks offroad and beat the heck out of them; would even like to sleep in them if possible (oh, yeah, I still own a Vanagon camper, as well!)
I didn't get any good pictures at the show, but I do recall that the bumpers of the production seemed pretty plastic, which would be a disappointment. And the way the rear doors swing down and out is a bit bizarre. But otherwise I liked the truck. My Disco has 189,000 on the clock, so I'm thinking the FJ might be a reasonable replacement. I've also had my eye on one of the SE3 Freelanders, the
ones that are like an Isuzu Amigo with 2 doors and a semiconvertable top. Tiny, but workable, especially since I have other larger vehicles (tho I do like to be able to tow). The other ones I've considered are the Xterra - too small inside, too tall outside! - and the Touareg - too much carpet inside, otherwise a decent choice.
I don't really know the procedure for pre-ordering, but I figured I'd find a decent local dealer (Los Angeles metro area) and inquire. I've never bought a new new car before, which worries me a bit, for paying the shiny premium; on the other hand I wish I had with the Land Rover 110, which seem to be worth more now, with miles, than they cost new.
I've seen these specs before. But I need INTERIOR length. It's just amazing that no manufacturer I know of lists interior dimensions of their vehicles (i.e. the length from the second row of seats to the tailgate, from the first row to the tailgate, from the dash to the tailgate, between the wheel wells, overall interior width, overall interior height). At most, you can get a "cargo volume" number. But those cubic inches tell me virtually nothing.
Like I said, I've measured a 4Runner inside not so long ago. It is 6 feet from the back of first row seats to the tailgate. And 9 feet from the dash to the tailgate. FJ is likely to be 5 feet and 8 feet respectively. But I do need the exact dimensions, please
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Um.....he was asking about space behind the FRONT row (5' perhaps) as well as the overall distance from the DASH to the tailgate (8' perhaps).
I had similar questions in my mind when my wife and I bought our '98 4runner. The problem there was that to fold the 2nd row seats, you first folded forward the seat bottom cushion. This ate into the available length for sleeping in the rear of the vehicle.
I removed the bottom cushions and build an elevated sleeping platform and found I had plenty of room (I'm an even 6' tall). Perhaps the same could be done in the FJ. An elevated sleep platform would eliminate the problems with an uneven floor and could even extend partway over the front passenger seat (with the seat forward on it's rails and flipped forward if it doesn't fold flat). Plus, you could put hinged panels in it to store small stuff under the platform while sleeping.
Should work fine for one; and nicely cozy for two...
http://www.loftyshelters.com/
AS for why sleep in your truck, have you ever had to hit a trailhead at dawn? It's a lot quicker to just roll out of the back of the truck. Ditto if you arrive someplace at midnight - easier to just roll in the back to sleep. And if you love to camp in the Pacific Northwest and Canada as i do, it makes getaways on rainy mornings a lot quicker too. basically, it's good for all sorts of scenarios in long trips, or for special needs.
Definitely, if time is plentiful and the weather is good, I would prefer to be outdoors.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But for a 4*4? Needs some extra toughening on the exterior, and in this case, aftermarket might not even be able to work right.
Now, I'm *sure* it whomps on most everything else in its class off-road. And it *looks* better than most of the others, too. But it's not going to survive a week the way my friend uses his 4*4s.
Oh well - back to saving for a mint condition Volvo 303. Now that's a real 4*4.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think it's important to point out any major potential problems, since this is heavily marketed as a newer, better version of the original. Aluminum is dirt-cheap, as is steel, so there's no excuse, really. Charge $500 more and give us a real metal and tougher exterior.
Look at the bumpers on the 4Runner. What do you think that stuff is? It's PLASTIC. Same with the Xterror, same with nearly anything today. Those plastic end caps on the Wrangler bumper - I've torn a few of those off. The Jeep bumper itself is tin - I destroyed one by hitting a dog fer godsake. Body shops aren't making money because of the changeover to plastic - just the opposite. Go whack a 4Runner bumper with a hammer - nothing. Now whack an old steel Toyota bumper. Dent. Permanent dent. Plastic body panels are great too, they don't ding and dent easily. Metal bodies get dented and have to be fixed. You want steel thick enough to resist denting? Do you know how thick (and heavy) that would need to be? There hasn't been metal bodies that thick since the 1940s. Some of you guys are idiots. If you're going to see serious trail use and tear off the plastic bits, you'll probably need to put something better on there anyway, tin bumpers wouldn't matter. For everyone else, it does not matter one bit. Steel weighs more and costs more, aluminum is nearly impossible to fix, and costs a LOT more. Steel will absorb some energy, aluminum absorbs nearly none, it just cracks if the energy can't dissapate to something else, like maybe the frame. THATS a good idea - no bumper damage, but now I need the frame straightened... Think about what you're saying once in a while.
The FJ is a nice truck, but it feels mosre like a Yuppie status symbol than a real in-your-face 4*4. Um - it's exactly like comparing a Wrangler to a Liberty. One is a 4*4 and the other, while the specs say it's really good off-road, hasn't come close to bearing that out in real useage. The Wrangler still beats the Liberty and survives more abuse while doing it, too.
P.S. the Wrangler has thick enough steel to survive most small dents.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/06montreal/overview.htm
All the foregoing prefaced by... IMHO..
Scoreboard:
1 vote for FJ, Karl, who has driven
1 vote against FJ, plekto, who has not driven;
so far it's a tossup.
We shouldn't have to add in $3000 in aftermarket accessories because the bean counters at Toyota saved $500 and 200lbs on the exterior.
But, yeah - it will kick butt off-road. Just hope it lasts longer than a couple of seasons is all.
So how do you know that it is brittle? Have you taken an FJ Cruiser and broken it's bumper cover? Do you have specs on this plastic and have you compared it with specs to different plastics?
How do you know it is cheap? Have you seen the invoice from Toyota's supplier?
Or is everything you are saying complete speculation?
It explains it all - the prototype was fifteen feet from th pre-production model. And the pre-production model has a busted bumper, actually, so yes - it's clear now flimsy the font end is.
OTOH, ALL cars at the show, even Mercedes, were an astonishing amount of plastic compared to five years ago. Sad, really.
I'm sure there will be optional and aftermarket protective grills for hardcore off-roaders who want to plow through heavy brush.
Again, I ask you, how did you determine that the plastic is brittle? Have you tested it? How did you determine the cost? Do you have invoices from the supplier?
1:Headlamp lenses were thin plastic. They were round copies of the original's sealed-beams, yet they didn't put round standard sealed-beams in there and instead went with a piece of plastic barely thicker than a CD? Thinnest headlight "lens" I've ever seen on a vehicle. A nice $8 sealed-beam would have been as good AND well, cheap as dirt to replace. Look better, too, plus no yellowing.
2:Front grille - all one piece and thin plastic. Held on up top by four tiny little plastic brackets. Reminded me very much of the front end of an old late 80's GM - when they were building it out of fiberglass - one hit and presto - need a new entire front grille.
2a:It looks like the headlight lens is part of the front grille - I suspect that a strong hit on the lens would break some mount/bracket it's attached to, requiring a total grille replacement.
3:The side wings on the bumper are useless, and only for looks. They appear to come off quite easily as well, so IF you clip something, that piece is going to pop off first. They should have ditched the aggressive look and gone with a cleaner one-piece assembly.(Wrangler is a good example)
The interior was also very ticky-tacky and plasticky. Looked fantastic. But all hard plastic. Not even colored plastic - it's painted plastic to look "cool", which means it'll get worn looking fast.
It felt like, well, the Yaris comes to mind. It was good mechanically, but the interior and esterior was cost-cut to the point where it felt "cheap". If I pay 25-30K for a vehicle, I want it to at least hide most of the offending plastic and not feel like a bigger econobox inside.
But, the whole industry is like this now. All looks and no substance. $30K cars made half out of plastic seem to be the norm these days.
How do we know that these are the production materials? We don't. Bumpers and dashboard plastic might be changed; this one might have been produced six months or a year ago for all we know. Time will tell.
I still think I'm going to get in line for one.
Any idea as to how much will the Upgrade Package cost? I am guessing $3,000; which will put the cost of an FJ to around $26,000 (4x4 MT).
Go FJ!
For the 4X4 AT version, upgrade one is $2560 and upgrade two is $2620. The convenience package is same as above.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-yuppie 20 something from D.C. who wants a cool looking car for cheap that will be more reliable than a Jeep and will get me to any fishing spot with ease.