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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Comments
Reality is reality but I agree I would not rather give more to the car companies. Having to pay more upfront to pay less in the back doesn't sit very well with me.
Would like to see their pension plans go unfunded, collapse, and have the US gov't bail them out?
Exxon is owned by shareholders, not by some nebulous unknown. Those people are making money, paying taxes on it, and respending it in the economy.
Exxon is a US corporation. Not a Saudi or Iranian. ANd they're a middleman between us and them. They spend huge amounts of money in security in the midEast and constantly build positive relationships with investors and customers in that region everyday. They probably have more to do with diplomacy and stability in the region than our own government.
Anything we can do to use less foreigh oil is a plus in my book. I'd rather pay more upfront (even to non-Arab Toyota)than send the money weekly to the midEast.
Exxon-Mobil's $10 billion profits were on $100 billion in revenue...this is a 10% profit margin.
I guess we'd all be better off, somehow, if they were on the verge of bankruptcy and laying off 10s of thousands of employees, etc...
Haven't heard that trumpeted by the media darlings, who determine the "important" news for us peons to hear. Maybe it's because Toyota is one of their darlings. That huge increase ought to make some take note of where the money is going. Sounds like they could have been selling their cars for less or putting more quality into them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They are an easy target right now, but that's not really the problem. The problem is lack of production. We haven't built a power plant in this country in THIRTY years! We are sitting on our vast resources, off shore, oil share, and ANWR because politically there is opposition (even though we can now mine them in an environmentally responsible manner). This nation already is spending billions on renewable energy (solar, biomass, geothermal--people don't realize it but last year's energy bill was huge for all of this).
We need a dual tract approach--increase domestic production and increase the use of renweable energies and encourage conservation. To that end, hybrids do help.
Possibly you meant to say "oil refineries" and "oil shale".
>ExxonMobile in particularly are now investing heavily
What were they doing with all those profits earlier? Weren't they to have been investing in expansion of resources? We've been through this same path before: huge profits on the oil companies' parts due to higher than needed prices. Talk of windfall tax profits. Mea culpas all around. And back to normal business.
Do any other states have an attorney general who has challenged the pricing of gasoline companies. Kentucky's attorney general is on his second round against Speedway (subsidiary of Marathon). First was for price hikes during aftermath of Katrina; now, price controlling the market (just the same as it does in SW Ohio).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I usually keep my cars for at least 10 years. A hybrid car would save me money (I think) in the long run. As far as thinking gas will go back down to $2/gal, I would be willing to bet the price of a hybrid car, that it won't happen.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't know, I beg to differ. This person has opened my eyes a bit more when it comes to Hyunida-Kia brands. I did not realize they were that much of a factor worldwide in other markets. This really leads me to believe much of why Honda/Toyota owners dislike Hyunida products is pure status symbol and perception of the product. Not actually the facts about the products Hyundia produces and really how competitive Hyundia actually is to Toyota/Honda products. Education is key for Hyundia..
Forgot needing drilling rigs near beaches, we can't even have them in a remote part of Alaska that was specifically designated by Jimmy Carter to be for oil production!
The Senate just passed a bill that will produce a lot of natural gas (enough to heat and cool 6 million homes for 15 years) and 1.3 billion gallons of oil off the coast of Florida, so that will help. And it sets up a blueprint for similar deals along the Atlantic coast since there is also resources off the coasts of GA, NC, SC, VA.
"Haven't heard that trumpeted by the media darlings, who determine the "important" news for us peons to hear. Maybe it's because Toyota is one of their darlings. That huge increase ought to make some take note of where the money is going. Sounds like they could have been selling their cars for less or putting more quality into them"
And people claim they don't get overcharged for thier Toyota's?? The media has people so whipped up about Toyota they open thier wallets with no questions asked. :surprise:
It couldn't possibly be that Toyota is making products that people want to buy. :confuse:
When it comes to cars I never buy the same car twice in a row. There is only on exception I would make. If you really think about where else can you spend this much money and be assured the product will perform it's intended function.
What does this statement mean? You've never bought a car that was good enough, to want another one. Or do you like taking chances? If you mean you would not buy another car of the same make a model, because they are the same car, that's not true at all. The only thing the 92, and 03 Accords have in common is the quality. Other than that, they are totally different cars (three generations apart).
I like "taking" chances as you put it. American, German, Japanese. You always take a chance when you buy a new car, they all can be lemons in spite of the statistics.
My point was, that for $20K and above or for that matter any price, 99.9% of the cars will fulfill their mission and get you from point A to point B.
The chances of an Accord being a lemon are slim. The odds (statistics) are stacked against it. If I have to gamble, I want it to be a "sure thing".
My point was, that for $20K and above or for that matter any price, 99.9% of the cars will fulfill their mission and get you from point A to point B.
Just getting from A to B is not enough. I would also like to be comfortable, and enjoy the ride with confidence.
All very true. It is fairly common to see an LX-Special Edition Accord on the prices paid forum for around $19k or less. Paying more than sticker for a Civic these days is quite odd.
How do you know?
More of Hyundai's what?
But I like trying out different manufacturers. So when it's time for a new car, it's time for a new manufacturer.
You're hearing a lot of noise about a stastically small number of cases. Time will tell.
What a great comment. Since there are tax credits let's not ignore them. In "reality" I'm getting $2600 from the Fed's and $3750 from the state. If I were not, then how would taking dollars away from the oil companies who in turn give it to the terrorists for their oil and instead give it to the auto manufacturers who employ hard working people not be a good thing???
I guess from the casual observer I may look "stylish"? I never thought going from a luxury car to an economy car (Camry Hybrid) would make me look more stylish. Then again I don't live on the left coast and I actually bought this because I'm able to average 38.7 mpg
When you're trying to sell a car that no one is buying then bashing the car that outsells all other mid size sedans is the first step. Unfortunately when you're at the bottom of the heap, bashing number 1 does not necessarily get you any higher?
I can see little german boys in the back of their daddy's 750iL day dreaming of the day they can get a Kia
A Very, Very good point. Reliability is no longer cornered by Honda/Toyota. It was only a matter of time for this to happen. I have a co-worker who has owned an 2005.5 Jetta and he has never had a problem. We all know the Jetta's PAST reputation. As consumers find out they don't need to spend the extra $$ for a Honda or Toyota to get a reliable, quality built vehicle things will change. That consumers do have other very good choices in other sedans on the market. :shades:
I do find that interesting, since the last Motor Trend (or Car and Driver possibly) I read showed 7.2 seconds to 60. (Comparison Test between Jetta, Accod, TSX, 6, and G6 GTP).
Also, performance includes a lot of factors, so, frankly, no i don't find it that wierd. If they had said something like "deceptively quick" or "lively acceleration", that would be obvious bias showing through. Anyone who has driven a TSX though can attest to the fact that it is one of the best, if not THE best handling cars available at its price point. Handling is "performance" too, remember; it's not all acceleration.
I could make basically the same case that you did, but with the Fusion. They say "Classy Looks, needs the power to match", a decidely indifferent comment, versus the positive comment about Acura TSX, yet the Fusion scored higher on their ratings scale. That doesn't seem right to me, either.
I'd research some sites that shows recalls and problems. A 4 year old BMW could end up being a money pit and unless you get it at a really good price you may lose big time. A 2 year old G could be a good buy, especially if you get it from someone (like me) who traded often and wanted to get a little better than kbb "trade in" value out of the car. An 04 already has the huge depreciation yet is probably still on warranty if you get the right one.
Correction: '... a few owners...' a vocal few to be sure but with 150,000 new '07's on the road the reports of problems are few and far between.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef0a892/5676
Try posting your question in the above forum. Do your research and don't assume Infiniti is problem free.
There is so much misinformation hereabove it's suprising for one so involved in these forums. Was there any research done before posting?
'XLE' version of the hybrid Camry is $1000 less than the XLE version of the ICE Camry. Hybrid Premium?
This is before the $2600 Federal credit ( through 9-30 ); $1300 credit from 10-1 to 3-31-07. This is also separate from any state tax advantages which can be huge ( with no expiration ).
'I don't know the life of the batteries...' It's in many places here at Edmunds and on the net you will find that. 'The batteries are expected to last the life of the vehicle' Expect 200K -300K miles as with most Toyota's and Honda's. Both the DOE and Toyota have tested them in excess of 150,000 miles with no deterioration at all in performance.
Toyota has never has to replace a failed battery in 6+ years here.
How much will it cost to replace the batteries; $500, $1,000, $2,000 or more? If at the high end, who would want to buy a 6 year old car that would require thousands of $ to keep running in a couple of years? This isn't like a warranty running out in 3 or 10 years. It's a maintence item like brake pads wearing out.
There is zero maintenance on the hybrid system for the life of the vehicle save a coolant flush each 60,000 miles.
The resale value of hybrids is well above the 'equivalent' ICE vehicle.
Even with today's high fuel costs, most things I've read say that a hybrid will not save most people money over a 6 year or so period.
And if you start out on the plus side and begin saving money from day one?
Research please.. it appears that someone mentioned a few 'well-known truths' over the water cooler that were taken as gospel. Personal research is always better.
Need specific references for the above?
I tried my best to refute some of these claims, but you did a fantastic job. People at least should know the facts. All hybrids are not created equal, and the financial situation is not black and white. Just because somebody read a Consumer Reports 3 months ago that hybrids may not pay for themselves doesn't mean the Toyota Camry Hybrid does not.
By the way, this month's Motor Trend contains a "10 Most Wanted" list where each editor picks what they think is the best vehicle on the market. The Camry Hybrid is one of the 10.
Yes, please provide references for the battery life and replacement cost.
Everything I've read places useful battery life at 4-5years, given the fact they are lithium-ion batteries. Being operational after 4 years is not the same as operating at top efficiency after 4 years.