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also, would it be possible to wire the fans in paralell to have them both run at the same time or would it blow a fuse and/or cause other problems?
or could it be a bad switch somewhere?
1997 Dodge Caravan 4 cyl (2.4)
:confuse:
Yes you could add 12V to the fans to see if they are working. They rarely fail, but it can happen.
Clogged radiator is a good guess. Have you checked or water in the oil or combustion gases in the coolant?
I also checked the 40 AMP fan(s) fuse and it is okay.
With the vehicle off (the ignition is off, no key in it), I physically reached down and turned the fans (make sure you do this when the engine is cool as you could get burned on hot parts. Also, some vehicles fans go on even when the key is off). The fan blade/motor on the passenger side is seized up and the fan blade/motor on the driver's side spins freely.
Not sure, but I am guessing that the good fan is tied in electrically with the other one, so it won't go on either.
Anyway, looks like I need at least one fan motor. Not sure if they sell them separate or not. I checked my Haynes Repair Manual and it looks like it will be kind of a pain to remove the entire fan fixture, but do-able.
First, I had similar symptom: a '97 Town & Country. Starting 6/06, when A/C on, my overheat is slightly different - The temp on dashboard shows it is OK if car moves with smooth traffic. In stop-and-go, such as traffic light, I can see the steam. Or if the car was moving OK w/o overheat, pull to my garage and turn off the engine, I can hear the water boiling and steam comes out. I replaced the thermastat, and back-flush the cooling system. Add coolant to 40%. When engine is off, no more steam, but the coolant comes out the rad cap.
2. Cause A: I found this info a web site
http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl695c.htm
Partial quote from this web. Some '98 has this problem:
"There was a recall on your Caravan for this very problem. To correct this condition, the radiator fan relay must be replaced and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) must be reprogrammed (flashed). The dealer will do this free of charge."
3. Cause B:
http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl287f.htm
Below is the quote
A. That's not a recall, that was a Technical Service Bulletin. And, sorry to say, it does not apply to your vehicle. The one that does apply to your vehicle is:
NO: 08-34-96
GROUP: Electrical
DATE: Oct. 25, 1996
SUBJECT:
Radiator Fan Relay Operation
MODELS:
1996 - 1997 Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager 1996 - 1997 Chrysler Voyager (International Market)
DISCUSSION:
Conditions related to the radiator fan relay may result in the radiator fans not turning "ON" or not turning "OFF" as designed.
The screws that mount the relay to the left front frame rail may break causing the relay to overheat and turn off because it no longer has heat sinking capability to the frame rail.
If broken radiator fan relay screws are found, they must be replaced with revised screw P/N 06035202. Also, the relay may have been damaged because of the overheating (but may still be functioning) caused by the lack of heat sinking and should be replaced.
Some vehicles may have an intermittent interference condition between the radiator fan blade(s) and the fan shroud that causes a high current draw that will fail the radiator fan relay.
The relay can fail in an open condition preventing the fan motors from running and causing the engine to overheat. The relay can fail in a closed condition causing the radiator fans to continue to run with the ignition switch turned "OFF".
If a failed radiator fan relay is found, it must be replaced with revised relay P/N 04886288AA AND screws P/N 06035202. Revised relay P/N 04886288AA has a higher current capacity that is able to handle the extra current draw related to the intermittent radiator fan/shroud interference.
A number of vehicles may have corrosion develop in the radiator fan relay connector. On vehicles with this condition, the radiator fan relay connector should be replaced using pigtail service package P/N 04897034AA
Also, tonight I applied 12 volts to each fan and indeed the passenger side fan motor bearings are shot.
This doesn't explain why the other one doesn't run though.
After reading your info., I thought that perhaps the relay was "stuck" on causing one fan to prematurely wear out, but that would mean the other one should still be running.
Anyway, I am going to have the dealer look at it and see if I can get the relay replaced again.
I still haven't figured out if I can replace on of the fans/motors without taking the entire fan shroud out.
Hopefully, I can get by with just replacing the one fan motors. It looks like it is mounted with heavy duty rivets though, so I'm not sure.
Thanks again.
Thanks, Fred
I'm thinking a little oil in the coolant is less of a problem than getting coolant in the oil. Am I right about that or is the engine now near death?
It seems like the overflow bottle can even act as an oil/water separator. The oil floats on the top but the coolant is pulled in from the bottom. So I was thinking if I keep the bottle over-filled the oily gunk will at least not get pulled back into the radiator and engine.
Water does not lubricate rings, bearings, and lifters very well.
You are close to a total motor lockup.
Or, with exhaust gas going into the cooling systems, a huge overheating of the motor.
A salvage motor might be the best idea to keep this vehicle on the road.
But, I am not seeing any water in the oil, so far anyway.
Or, with exhaust gas going into the cooling systems, a huge overheating of the motor.
Why would I be getting exhaust gas in the cooling system :confuse: . The head gasket is not leaking, AFAIK. The front cover would not leak exhaust gas...not really sure what exactly the intake gasket is, but does not sound like it would be associated with exhaust. I do watch temp gauge, and it is always normal.
Since, I did not know how long it took for the oil to accumulate and I added some bars leak stop to the coolant, after seeing the oil, I am doing an experiment. I drained the overflow bottle, washed it out, and put clean coolant in it. After driving to work and back yesterday (about 20 mi total) it was still clean.
When I drained the coolant overflow, I would say there was maybe about an ounce or so of oil slurry floating on the top of the coolant. This had accumulated in the last few weeks, because I know it was clean when I checked the fluids about 3 weeks ago.
Maybe, but....
You shut the car down, the cooling system is still pressurized to about 15psi until it cools down, the oil pressure drops to zero immediately - what's going to happen.
Is the oil on the dipstick 'chocolate' looking rather than solid oil? Is so, this is water in the oil.
Nope, oil looks fine. I know that chocolate milk look :sick: ...once had that in a Voyager after it had been leaking oil from every seal for a while.
You shut the car down, the cooling system is still pressurized to about 15psi until it cools down, the oil pressure drops to zero immediately - what's going to happen.
I see what you are saying there. Is it possible the bars leak stuff had temporarily allowed a bit of oil to leak into the cooling sytem, but replugged the leak before any significant coolant went the other way???
By way of background, I was told by the Toyota dealer about 3 months ago there was a crack in the radiator. I decided not to have it fixed because the coolant level seemed to be holding steady and there was no cooling problem at the time.
2 days ago, I noticed the temp gauge creeping above the mid point when stopped at traffic lights or in heavy traffic. It would go as high as about 3/4 of the way up toward the red zone but not right to the top or into the red. (It has never done this before in 13 years and it wasn't that hot outside).
Revving the engine to about 1200 rpm at idle, or speeding up to > 20-30 mph resulted in the temp going immediately back to normal. Temp remained normal once at speed.
I can hear the fan going at idle, and as the temp rises above the midpoint the fan seems to really speed up (which I presume is normal). Coolant level was a bit low (at the "full cold" level when hot). The heater was working well and turning it on seemed to help a bit. The car was running fine through all of this.
The dealer wants to replace the radiator and believes the condition was caused by low coolant level.
Does this sound reasonable? It doesn't seem as if the coolant level is that low. I'm also not entirely sure why a coolant level problem would manifest only at very low speed. I would have suspected the fan but it seems to be running and, if it were the fan, why would increasing the idle rpm improve the situation?
I'm happy to replace the rad if it will fix the problem but I'm not entirely convinced.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
I just checked and trans fluid looks normal, too. I'll check my trans fluid appearance along with the oil from now on...thanks for pointing out this possibility.
Here is another strange thing. I opened the radiator cap yesterday to see if there was any oil visible there. There did not seem to be, just some of what I think is "leak stop" crud. But the coolant was not full all the way to the top. It was at least a couple inches low as I could not reach the coolant by sticking my finger in there. So I put some coolant mix directly in the radiator to top it off.
I have not driven or even started the car since then, but today when I opened the radiator cap the coolant level was down again. Again I could not reach the top of the coolant level with my finger. There is no coolant on the garage floor under the car. :confuse:
That type of leak could explain coolant loss but not oil in the coolant, right?
Adding a new radiator to the $1500+ already needed for the gaskets, would just confirm my decision not to fix it.
A leak in the radiator, plus either a non-functioning radiator cap or a leak in the rubber hose to the recovery tank would allow coolant to leak out, but not be pulled back into the radiator when the engine is off and cools down. (This is the only way coolant gets into the radiator from the recovery tank - the engine cools and the lower pressure and a valve in the radiator cap allows fluid to be pulled back into the radiator.)
This would allow the coolant in the radiator and the rest of the cooling system to be low, but not appear low in the coolant recovery tank.
Allow the motor to cool down COMPLETELY and unscrew the radiator cap. If the radiator is not totally full, you may have a leak plus one of the above problems.
At 160,000 miles one or both of these could need repair.
So, your radiator cap and hose to recovery could be fine, and you will still not get fluid pulled from the tank to restore fluid leaked out.
You've got to get the radiator leak fixed.
I got the rad fixed and drove it today. So far, so good.
1. The service advisor told me my water pump looks okay. I do not know if this is true or not, but there does not appear to be leakage of any fluid under my vehicle before or after use.
2. In the hose that goes from the raditator to the expansion/fill-in tank, there is a major crook near the bottom - closest to the radiator. It is practically squeezed off. How significant is this?
3. I only have 1 of 2 fans attached to the front of my radiator. I suspect this fan is not correctly electronically connected, so I was thinking of taking my vehicle to have the electronics analyzed...is this significant? I know this fan only kicks in once the temp gets above a certain level, but it does not even seem to do that. Also, does the fact that I have 1, instead of 2, present a major concern (once I get it working, obviously)
4. My engine eats oil - medium to medium-bad level. Every 3000 miles, I have to add 1-2 quarts by the time of the next oil change (car has 186K on it). Might this play a role?
other questions/comments:
How easy is to replace the water pump if that is in fact the problem? Could I just buy a Chilton manual, or other manual, and figure it out? Is it attached to the timing belt?
The other 2 major hoses in the radiator were replaced with the new radiator, but not the hose to the expansion tank.
Thanks in advance for any comments and/or suggestions....
I had one bad motor (of the two) on the passenger side. It was seized up and this may have caused the relay to go.
I ordered an entire new unit through http://www.directauto.com and it has a lifetime warranty. It took less than an hour to replace.
Here are the details:
Part Name Code Qty Each Options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Caravan 1996-2000 NEW 674a027 1 109.95 Style = Caravan 1996-2000 NEW
Radiator / Condenser Fan Radiator / Condenser Fan Motor
Motor Assembly OEM# Assembly OEM# 4682624 # 620140
4682624 # 620140
Subtotal 109.95
Shipping 11.50
Total 121.45
Can somebody please help me!!
If not, stop worrying.
Fans on many vehicle are set to only come on when the temp hits something like 220degrees. I know, I know, the thermostat in the car is probably a 195degree one, but I just telling you how the cooling design of some vehicles is done now-a-days.
So, your guage might have to get to 3/4 or more before it is truly needing the fans to come on.
There is also a temperature control up by the thermostat that might be the problem, if everything else checks out okay.
Good luck.
If the head gasket job was bad, it would overheat at speed. So, that part was probably done ok.
But, I bet something was not plugged back in, aa wire is pinched, etc, etc, etc. Take it back to the place that did the gasket job, there is something they did/didn't do that needs to be corrected.
I have exact the same problem as yours. After fix the blown head gasket ($1250CAD plus tax) the cooling quit working. If the sensor wire is unplugged from the engine body, the fan kicks in within a few seconds.
Did you find any solution to this problem?
Thanks in advance,
Ken
Thanks in advance.
I figure the problem could be the cooling fan switch, the fan relay or the thermostat. Is there anyway to rule out any of these possibilities without replacing each piece?
Some cars have two sensors, one to start the fan at the max temperature and one to stop it at the base or shut-off temperature. I'm not all that familiar with your particular cars symptom.
So start a "diagnostic tree"--make sure the fan actually works first.