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Subaru's fortunes sinking - can they turn it around?
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-mike
How can this be?
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081216/FREE/812169995
Subaru and rally competition have been synonymous for nearly 20 years, but in a surprising move, the company said on Tuesday that it is pulling out of the 2009 World Rally Championship in response to the global economic crisis.
The Prodrive-run Subaru team has won six WRC titles--three manufacturer's and three driver's--and built up a strong following around the world. In turn, rally success has helped Subaru sell sporty cars and burnish its image with enthusiasts, in the process making the blue Impreza rally car an icon.
The announcement came from Subaru's parent company, Fuji Heavy Industries, which said it had met its objectives for WRC competition.
I can't even imagine WRC without Subaru! I'm sure I won't follow it as closely any more without Subaru in it. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/wrc_history.html
They migh as well pull out even if the independents will continue to race some of their WRC cars for a few years after they leave. They just aren't getting much bang for the buck in WRC. In my opinion. :surprise:
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
It seems as if when the smoke clears a prediction many have made about the auto industry may come true and only a few super manufacturers will be left. I don't have a clue to who those companies will be but I think there will be fewer American Manufacturers left when all is said and done.
Wanna know something funny? One of the reasons I bought my OBS in 1997 was because Sube had just won the WRC championship with their Impreza. Of course, the street Impreza I purchased didn't have a lot in common with that rally car, but I liked the (fake) hood scoop and the feel it gave off that it could go anywhere and finish in first place. LOL! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I do think the current Impreza is a nice piece of work, much more so than the last model, and as I get more and more restless with the Matrix, I may be making the switch, we will see.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
I am not sure how I feel about the light cream-colored interior though - very easily marked and stained I assume....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The '08 is rated at 20/27.. I average 26-28, taking it pretty easy... Torquey motor, but runs out of breath pretty quickly.. not that much fun to shift.. weird throttle response..
Mine has the black interior, which is not that attractive, but stays clean..
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Every car built today has a hanging throttle, I got used to it in the Matrix and the RSX before that, and the Impreza will be about the same. If you ever want to experience a REALLY bad hanging throttle, try driving a GM car with the 4-cylinder - I tried out the Cobalt and the Ion and both are the same. You step off the gas and hit that clutch, and wait and wait for the revs to fall, it's crazy.
I am fairly confident of pulling a steady 30 mpg in the Impreza because of my driving pattern (very little stop and go, mostly suburban and rural for this car, I am pulling 35.5 mpg average in the Matrix, I take the Echo when I go into the city), and I am used to the torquey/runs out of breath thing with the engine, as the 2.2 in my OBS was exactly the same.
I miss the AWD - this is the first time I have been without it for many years - so that's why the Impreza is in the running. The Mazda3 is also in the running, no AWD of course but it has better mileage and is a more fun car to drive as well. We will see. I may yet do nothing, but the Matrix is running out of good will in my book.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The hanging throttle on this model was bad enough that they had a software update... that only fixed about 1/3 of the problem... I've driven other sticks... This is definitely the worst... It really kills the enjoyment...
But, handling is pretty darn good, tires suck in the snow.. Lots of interior room for a sedan (Except for the cost, I'd rather have a hatch).
I leased it, because it was dirt cheap... If I had to buy it for the actual cost ($18,500 selling price), then I'd pick something else...
Good luck!
kyfdx
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My only other complaint is the cross winds will blow this car around on the highway. I've nicknamed her "Little wanderer" for that reason But for the $$$, I could not find anything that competes with it. And, I'd buy another one if I had to do it all over again.
Can't blame them, though, the French makes were spending a fortune to win and this isn't the time to spend buckets of money to start winning again.
And Honda is out of F1 racing. I think the world really IS ending.
But I will miss the Impreza's face in WRC racing the most. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"This year it's the $2008 Challenge, meaning that competitors have to produce documents and receipts which prove that no more than $2,008 (not including labor) has been spent on the vehicle in question."
One example - an '82 Corolla:
Between that and the way they got their SIA problems sorted out with Toyota taking a share of the plant for Camry production, we will have to change the title of this thread to "Subaru's star rising - can it ever stop?"
:-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wonder if you have any glasses in your house that are half empty? No for all the years we have been talking I believe yours are all half full. :shades:
But it's more important if you made money or at least did not lose too much of it. Toyota became No. 1 in US and guess what - they generated their first loss, not a pretty thing considering their big profit projections.
Flat sales figures in rapidly contracting market show very stable, loyal and relatively affluent customer base. I would venture to say that large portion of Forester/Outback owners park next to their coworker's BMWs and Audis or what not, not because they couldn't afford anything "better", they simply didn't see any reason to. Obviously not all of them, but I read that already five years ago their median income was $70K - I know it's not as much in New England, but it's enough to get you a more expensive car if you live with your parents .
Perhaps a few of those who traded down from truck-based 15 mpg monstrocities were also picked up on the way to build those raising new Forester figures. If you look at the itemized figures, it is basically new Forester that saved them. All other models are in the tank - which is a concern for SIA (Outback/Legacy production). Hopefully new Legacy and the country coming to its senses from SUV addiction will revive the midsize sales.
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That's not true! Impreza sales are flat, which would normally be bad as it was only recently redesigned, but in a market that's down 20% I call that OK.
And of course the new Legacy and Outback launches next year. The current one is 5 years old, so if that is down in sales on pace with the overall market, I will call THAT OK too! :-)
I don't know their exact market share, but it's about 2% in normal years. If the overall market is down 25% or more this year, then Subaru's overall share may have gained as much as a whole point, which at 3% would be the largest share of the American market they have ever had!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
also there are more awd sedans. you get an awd fusion for about the same price as an imprezza.
Plus they need to get rid of the 4 speed auto already. Five, six, and seven speeds are becoming common. I think it is a crime that they have the 4EAT with the 4 cylinder engine.
But if I lived in the snow again Subaru would be on my short list. I just wonder how they will do next year, or should I say in the first quarter of 2009. That will be a test to see how far customer loyalty goes. Without a spin of course.
I would also be very cautious if not downright skeptical in calling Subaru a rising star - it takes more than just surviving one bad year. But it definitely was doing much better in 2008 than many others, even though I remember in early 2008 it did not look that great: WRX was already a clear disapointment (probably only Mike and Juice liked it ), Tribeca could not find its way back even after a clear improvement (was just too late), Outback and Legacy were already on their way down, Forester was still unknown, the only bright spot then was Impreza 2.5i and to much lesser degree STI.
Now - can anybody tell me how is FHI doing in terms of their balance sheet and debt levels?
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So let's not overreact, folks.
Still, dino001 will tell you I'm the optimist and even I did not think the new Forester would be enough to offset a lousy market, but it was. I predicted success for the Forester, but I thought the market would be so bad it would drag Subaru down with it. It's in this very thread, actually, right about a year ago.
If the market is down 25%, Subaru sales thru Novemeber were up slightly, so that means they increased their market share by more than 25%, which is quite a feat.
Rising star? Not quite. Fair to call them a diamond in the rough, though.
Plus, I wonder how much other niche manufacturers have - Subaru's share probably handily exceeds that of Mitsubishi, for instance, and is probably quadruple Porsche's, or more. It handily beats the Scion brand, which has almost twice as many dealers. What other good niche automaker examples are there? Hmmm......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Scion is really just a sub-division of Toyota, though they up-sized the engine just when the market decided they wanted smaller ones. Seriously bad timing, is all.
That wouldn't be a bad move for Subaru... An AWD-only Tacoma as a Subie.. Heck.. my Subie salesperson has to sell L-M part-time, next door, just to stay busy...
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Could work—if it offered the full-time, permanent (AWD) 4WD that comes with the Land Cruiser.
I've always felt that boxer engines had to be part of the Subaru picture, but I've come to realize that a gas or diesel engine of any type will only be a short-term solution. The future is with electric power. So using a Toyota engine, I could live with, knowing that it's only a stop-gap solution.
Having said that, I do still think, that if it's badged as Subaru, it MUST have a full-time AWD of some sort.
Bob
Tractor? Brazenly cheap?
an engine with a good torque band doesn't really need a lot of speeds.
that being said, i like the 6 speed in my fusion better the than the 4 speed in my wife's escape. they have basically the same engine. it's probably just that the 6 speed shifts better.
does anyone here who lives in a cold climate leave the wipers in the 'up' position against the windshield? (see mustang pic).
if they are frozen against the glass, it's a lot harder to scrape the ice and you have to break them loose anyway.
it's not a comment on the vehicle reviewer.
What he's missing is—consumers still love the new Forester—even with these faults. This car (and the new Impreza) is why Subaru is one of the very few automakers that will post a sales gain for 2008.
Bob
Having sat in these models all back to back at the auto show, I don't think you can deny that the interior of both models is "brazenly cheap", but I have driven the Impreza and I believe it to be an $18K drive for an $18K price sticker, so I wouldn't call its drive "cheap" or "tractor-like". I should drive the Forester some time and see how well it drives.
This guy also complains about the fuel economy, but really how well are the class leaders doing? I think the RAV4 is like 21/27 to Forester's 20/27, and CRV is at 20/26 isn't it? So Forester is right there at the head of the pack in a three-way heat.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I also wouldn't call it cheap by any means. The RAV4 isn't exactly a Lexus and the Forester is nowhere near as cheap inside as the Cheapuinox/Torent. It's on par with something like the Outlander, or the Escape which is acceptable for the under 24k asking price (2.5X Prem. w/AWP)
And I guess that accomplishment can be placed squarely on the shoulders of one model: the redesigned Forester. Which I personally believe took off because the ad campaign for it was much better than other Subaru ads in years past.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090105/ANA05/901050281/1078-
(registration link)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Did you guys also notice multiple copycats springing up, or is it just me? "Camry a camry" comes in mind, there was one more I can't remember.
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I dunno, though, pickup sales are droppoing, it may be the wrong time to enter that segment.
The ad dino brought up really hit home for me - I had a 1998 Forester like the one featured in the ad and bought a 2009 also featured in the ad. My 98 was even the same COLOR!
Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., the maker of Subaru-brand cars, forecast its first loss in 15 years, as the global recession decimates demand for new cars and a strong yen erodes overseas sales.
Fuji Heavy forecasts a 19 billion yen ($211 million) loss in the year ending March 31, it said in a statement today, scrapping a previous forecast of 10 billion yen in net income. The company will post a 9 billion yen operating loss, compared with a previous forecast of a 23 billion yen operating profit.
Separately, the company lowered its global sales target for this fiscal year by 60,900 vehicles to 554,800, it said in a statement. Fuji Heavy based its earnings forecast on an exchange rate of 101 yen to the dollar, compared with an earlier assumption of 103 yen.
President Ikuo Mori may boost overseas production and procurement because of the strong yen, he told reporters today in Tokyo. He is also cutting board members’ pay by 10 percent from this month and they will not receive bonuses.
Yikes, I would hate to see what the annual results would have been if they were down 18% in the U.S. as the rest of the market was....
...and on a sidenote, it would seem they need to start building Foresters and Imprezas in the U.S. like they do the Legacys and Outbacks, so as to be more protected from the yen exchange rate than they are currently.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=a0JRRNwbIm5s&refer=japan
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/subaru-wrc-2008-12-16
Yes racing will suffer in general as well as ALMS and F-1 take a hit. But Subaru has not dodged the bullit. anymore than anyone else. They are smaller so a small wound may hurt even more. The first half of 2009 will tell us a lot but I don't think the exchange rate will get any better. Subaru needs to hold on to a niche that may or may not hold up in a world looking for entry level new cars at entry level prices.
In other words, when all the figures come in, I think you'll find they will be in a similar situation to all the others... They just had a big hit (Forester) early in the calendar year to pad their numbers.... The sales before April of '08 were in the previous fiscal year.
regards,
kyfdx
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Also, January sales are out and Subaru was up 8%.
The 2009 Forester came out in late March, early April, so I'll be curious to see sales in April, when we start to compare the same new models.