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What about the future of Ford Inc??
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This weekend my Mom needed a new car to replace her 96 Cougar that had engine and tranny problems @ 77 K miles.
My Pops and Mom went to car shop - I consider them as less than car savvy. So what did they Buy? - 06 Corolla LE, and Why ?? Because it was the same price as the Ford Focus, but it is twice as nice. I helped them negotiate and test drove both cars - Corolla is much nicer than Focus, even though it did not have the same amount of power - which is not a big deal for my Mom - it did have more space and better fit and finish. Not to mention reliability stats and the resale value.
Fords have no resale value.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In the latest Jd Powers survey for 3 year old cars from 2002-2005 Ford finished above the industry average in reliability so they were not below average in JD. In Consumer Reports 04 in 5 year reliability from 1999 Ford finished above the industry average in reliability. CR said the average car company had 79 per problems per 100 vehicles. Ford finished with 75 problems per 100 cars. By Comparison the average Mazda finshed with 54 problems per 100 cars, Honda at 53 problems per 100 cars, Nissan 46 problems per 100 cars, and Toyota 35 problems per 100 cars. Meanwhile Chrysler scored at 88 problems per 100 cars and Chevy scored at 92 problems per 100 cars and Pontiac scored at 99 problems per 100 cars. Volkswagon and Oldsmobile were the worst at 108 and 139 problems per 100 cars respectively. Caddy finished at 82 problems per 100 cars just under the industry average of 79 problems per 100 cars from 5 year old cars surveyed by CR from 1999-2004.
Once a car hits its 10th birthday no matter what make it is its pretty much used up.
"On the other hand, if you meticulously maintain a Euro product (i.e. BMW, Volvo) they will still look good even when they are 10+ years old."
Volvo's and BMWs are more expensive to buy than Toyota's at a dealership. Also I'm sure European Cars the parts cost more than a part to get for a Toyota. I;m sure Toyota's are much easier to work on than a BMW and Volvo. I;m not the biggest Toyota fan out there but they probably cost less to own than a European Car.
I'm with you on the Lincoln LS and not updating it and the Focus's reliability problems. The Maruader come on looked like a car exterior styled for the 80's and it came out what in 2001 or 2002? The car did not look like an 00's design at all. BTW, what do you mean by Panther cars?
I hope they get it right the first time and don't have a few years of
problems and recalls like the Focus!
Grbeck and I saw a Fusion at a Ford dealer a couple weeks ago in Pennsylvania. It was the only one on the lot, though. Nice looking car. I definitely want to check them out once they're more plentiful.
A guy who relieves me at night at my job was telling me his friend works for Chrysler and his friend told him the 300's and 300M's alot of them come back to the dealership with problems.
"I'd take G35 over a 300 any day."
In all fairness the G35 had problems with brakes in its first year but I;m sure that was a first year bug more than anything else.
"Ford, GM, Chrysler are still behind in built quality and reliability IMO."
Again the problem with Ford and Chrysler is first year problems and alot of them with their cars. It takes them two years(which means to long of a period of time) into a model cycle to work out problems with new models. With GM the Impala actually looks like a decent looking car. I just don;t see anything GM offers over the Japanese Competition. add into the fact GM sells a pile of cars to rental fleets and the empoloyee pricing. I think everytime GM runs a discount special it might up their sales but in the long run it lowers the perception of their brand among the buying public as they are a company that sells on price and price alone.
But as far as reliability is concerned - I've owned four Ford pickups - two F-150's and two Rangers, and as compared with other vehicles I've had experience with they've all been virtually trouble-free. The '96 Ranger I'm currently driving has almost 240,000 miles on it and I wouldn't be afraid to strike out anywhere in it.
I think what Ford needs to do is to apply the same forward thinking to their cars that they've given to their trucks and SUV's. While gas prices may mean the end of all full-sized SUVs such as the Expedition, the new F-150 has been a big hit. Explorer is still the best-selling SUV and the redesigned 2006 will keep it #1. The Escape is IMO one of the better-looking compact SUVs and it is competitively priced. The Sport Trac has it's own niche and the new 390 hp version will sell. And even with the introduction of the Duramax Diesel in the Chevy HDs I still see more new F-250s and 350s on the road. All Ford needs to do is introduce a slightly larger crew-cab Ranger with a few more ponies and they would have a near perfect line-up of trucks.
Well, we both know, fintail, that a large portion of that issue is that it's 6 years old, Ford has dumped millions of them into the market via rental fleets, and the car's been design-neglected for some time now. If she was looking for great resale, she bought the wrong car. But a 2000 Camry would have cost her more in the beginning.
As to replacing my Navigator, that is a function of gas prices only. I love the Navigator, it's my second one. But looking ahead, one SUV in the family is enough. Lincoln doesn't make a great sedan these days, and I don't buy Ford products only, there are other great cars out there as well.
The Asians make the best cars from a cost to own point of view - they're not always exciting, in fact rarely are. Ford, IMO, makes the best domestic cars. Oh, they have put out a clinker or two, but for the money, generally they are high tech, well engineered, and reliable. At least that's how I see it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What about:
Altima 3.5 SE, or the 350Z, or G35 coupe and sedan, or Infinity M45, or Lexus 350? Or Subaru WRX, or Legacy GT, Mitsu Evo, Should I go on?
Still saying that the Asians don’t produce any exciting cars??? Maybe the next 450 HP AWD Skyline GTR will be close Huh?
Wow, you're really reaching here
I agree that Ford trucks are hugely successful. The new F-150 in particular. Escape you mentioned kinda shows the double-edged sword for them, though. It's a great little truck. It has won many accolades and sales. But it also had recall after recall when first released. That image stuck with the little trucklet for many years as other quality issues cropped up.
Anyway, one of the biggest reasons why Ford has done so well in the market is because they've been competing with a handful of manufacturers. Until recently, the F-150 has had to beat 3 major competitors (GM, Dodge, and Toyota). Even then Toyota has been playing on the fringes of the market. And profits for these rigs have been very high. Trucks are cheap to produce.
Ford now has to face Nissan and soon a redesigned Toyota, which promises to be more of a mainstream truck. At the same time, profits on big trucks are dropping. Gas prices and incentives are driving profits down and fleet sales don't provide much scratch. That's not a good combination.
If Ford is going to succeed with trucks, I think it will be through the effective use of Ford's truck reputation. Ford has a strong rep in big trucks. They need to capitalize on that image and produce new vehicles which harken to that ideal, but meet the public needs. Something like the next Explorer Sport Trac is a good idea.
The big three should definitely take some pointers from Nissan on the cargo management system and some other details from Nissan. However, Nissan has some really bad issues with gas mileage. I live in Mississippi where they are produced and a lot of them have been sold here. I've not heard of anyone who is getting 20 mpg. The F-150 with the 4.6 will get 21 on the highway and the chevy's do even better. The Titan is also quite expensive as compared with other trucks.
The introduction of more mid-size trucks, like the Dakota, Frontier, and Tacoma will also squeeze the market just a bit. You can't sell a one-size-fits-all truck anymore. That too will cut into profitability.
The Panther cars, which debuted for the 1979 model year, were the Ford LTD and Mercury Marquis, followed by the Lincoln Continental and Continental Mark VI for 1980. A heavily modified Panther platform is still used for the Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car.
The Fox platform debuted for the 1979 model year as the Ford Mustang and Mercury Capri, and ran all the way until the 2004 model year in heavily modified form as the Mustang. The Fox-based Mercury Capri bit the dust after 1986.
As for the Fusion - I've seen one on the road. It was a tungsten silver SEL model. The front looks very sharp, as does the side profile. The taillights are a little too generic for the rest of the design. Each local Ford dealer has at least two Fusions, although I still haven't seen a Zephyr at the local Lincoln Mercury dealer.
I am going to stop by and take a look at the Fusion up close and personal. It is definitely the nicest looking of the Fords right now, judging by the pics I have seen.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I take a bit of perverse pleasure in the fact that my 2002 Mustang contains little bits of "unintentional retro" like having a 20+ year old chassis and a pull-out headlight switch (to say nothing of the car's handling characteristics... )
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If true, what is Lexus these days?
nv: yeah, I would say Lexus is reaching to be the Mercedes of the Toyota world. It has no GM equivalent. Despite being FWD, the ES is not particularly Buicky. Lexus is the art of the transportation appliance honed to a startlingly fine point, with just a dash of sport in some of the models. (and yes, I am damning with faint praise, although I do appreciate that at least one car company is making solid, well-built, reliable cars with very few quality issues in this age of the disposable car, even if that company's cars start at $35K).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for the Navigator, that is a pretty expensive ride. I don't know that the young, or even the "moderately old", have the coin. It is mainly for the comfortably older set. And really, the young that do have the money seem to be buying the Escalade in droves, not the Navigator, even though the Navigator outsells the 'Sclade, I believe. And now of course, the latest thing for the rappers, basketball stars, and nouveau riche under 40 is apparently the Mercedes G500.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Proving, it never had anything to do with the actual product - it's all about how expensive it can be.
Price may have been the thing, but really, for the younger set it often comes down to how much bling it has. How much does it show off the wealth? The G and especially the Escalade do this well, while the Navigator is more conservative.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No, the Zephyr isn't an old person's car, but it is being sold under an older person's marque.
See your statement is exactally what's wrong with Lincoln's image...older persons marque. That's going to be very hard to change.
That is something I never understood, because I think the Escalade is BUTT UGLY!! Lincoln needs to pay attention and build a Navigator that's like the Escalade EXT!!
Actually the Fox platform debuted for the 1978 model year as Ford Fairmont and Mercury Zephyr. Derivatives include the 1979 Mustang/Capri, 1980 Thunderbird/Cougar XR7 (redesigned in 1983 and restyled in 1987, but still on the Fox platform), 1981 Granada/Cougar, 1982 Continental, 1983 small LTD/Cougar, and 1984 Lincoln Mark VII. Ford used to be quite good at getting a lot of derivatives off a platform, and based upon what I have read about plans for the CD3 (Fusion/Milan/Zephyr) and D2 (Five Hundred/Freestyle/Montego), Ford will develop many derivatives of these platforms.
I always thought that the Fairmont Futura and Zephyr Z-7 were good-looking cars for their time. The size was just right - not too big, not too small - and the interior made efficient use of the available space.
Kind of sad to think that in 1978, someone buying a compact Ford had the choice of two- and four-door sedans, a very nice four-door wagon, and a highly styled (for the time) coupe. Now we have to settle for one four-door sedan - the Fusion.
It may very well be the oldest platform in use, although it has been heavily modified from its original form.
Lincoln is already in deep trouble. The LS is going away, and the Zephyr, while not a bad car, does not strike me as something that will lure away buyers from the Acura TSX and TL and cheaper Lexus models. Lincoln needs a blockbuster on the order of the Chrysler 300C.
The Panther of today is decended from the 1979 platform, yes. But the one being stamped out today is fully updated, stiffened about 100 times now, and is better x 10 than the original, yet, has essentially the same design as the original. I don't see any shame in riding on a platform that was "originally" designed 27 years ago - it's not like it was MADE 27 years ago......