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Lincoln MKS

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    scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Have you noticed that GM is combining Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers?

    They want Chevy, Cadillac and Saturn as stand alones, and BPG a combo dealer. Not a bad plan, really.

    Here, the LM dealer that changed hands 3 times in 4 years finlly closed.
    The closest LM dealer to me is now 25 miles away.
    There are 4 Cadillac dealers closer than that.

    They should combine them with Ford dealers and require a physically separate area, like Toyota does with Scion dealerships.
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    The same thing is happening here in Minneapolis. Long time Lincoln/Mercury dealers are merging with Ford stores. You make a good point - maybe Mercury could become relevant as a niche producer.

    I, for one, would like to see Ford Motor Company offer a personal coupe that is a bit larger, more luxurious, and more refined than a Mustang. Cougar, anyone?

    By the way, if Mercury goes the way of Oldsmobile, I volunteer to comfort Jill in any way that she would be willing to accept.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I volunteer to comfort Jill in any way that she would be willing to accept.

    You, me and every other guy! That would be a long line indeed. :blush:
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    savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Ford does not need global luxury car. Ford does not need local luxury car. Ford does not need luxury car, period. That’s what ARM is telling us. Folding Lincoln into Ford means it is not the luxury nameplate after all. Ford just acknowledges the fact that everybody knew for the long time. Lincoln is not even equal to Buick which does not share dealerships with Chevrolet.

    Say I bring my Lincoln for service. Now what, I have to go to stay in line with all other Ford owners? I will get the same level of service as Ford owners? Lincoln is not supposed to be Ford’s Scion, for sure. Even Saturn has its own dealerships for Gd’s sake. Why would I bother to buy Lincoln? Buying Buick (given that Buick gets serious about making cars) I do not have to share my experience with Chevrolet owners.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Just because they're separate doesn't mean you get better service. I've been getting my Lincoln's serviced at the local Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealership and the service is outstanding. If you want to be coddled with marble and stone and capuccino go buy a Lexus. Lincoln/Mercury dealers aren't that much better than Ford dealers anyway.
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    carcommunitycarcommunity Member Posts: 1
    jojo :lemon:
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    fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    On another forum, Igor stated that the MKS 3.5 Twinforce will produce 380 HP & 380 Ft.-Lbs., and that it be built on a new D3 paltform which will also be the basis for the next Taurus.

    Who else is going to the LA Auto show to see the production MKS? I've put opening day on my schedule.
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    cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    Autoblog has some new shots of the MKS up:
    MKS Photos
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    keystone2k9keystone2k9 Member Posts: 25
    Good find!
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    laxmanlaxman Member Posts: 30
    Were they filming a commercial?

    Lastly, I hope it was just a bad angle because the rearend didn't look that good to me.

    And is it just me but the third picture, where the car is partially hidden behind a pillar, the slanting roofline at the back is Lexus GS'ish? Frankly I like the look of the GS so this is okay by me.

    It is kinda like looking at the Sears Christmas Wishbook in the middle of July as a kid. You earmark the pictures and keep coming back even though you won't get anything for a while. :(
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    cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    In the comments on the autoblog web page are posts from the guy who took the pictures, and another guy who said he was there. To them, it looked like they were filming a commercial, since there was a camera truck driving in front of the MKS filming as they drove by.

    They also said, the pictures do not capture the car. That there is a presence and weight in the design of the car that isn't captured in the pictures.
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    Maybe just the camera angle but the "C" pillar on this latest pic looks a bit different than on the earlier shots. To my eyes, the rear end is the weakest link. The tail lights looks amazingly like a Maserati Quattroporte. The front and side views look great, IMHO.

    I won't be going to LA for the show but I sure look forward to the press coverage and learning more details. Will we have direct injection at launch? What kind of HP and torque? How long before we have the Twinforce? When will production start?

    Unless there are some negative surprises, I will own an MKS shortly after they become available.
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    cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    On the website autoextremist.com, it is mentioned that some members of the press got a look at the MKS this week, and that starting next week an embargo will be lifted for information about the car.

    "We got a preview of the new Lincoln MKS on Monday, which is slated to be revealed at the L.A. Auto Show next week. The key information about the car is embargoed until next week, but we can tell you that it looks very promising. "
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    kfeitenkfeiten Member Posts: 4
    I have been waiting for the Mks since the Continental was discontinued. I have 90,000 miles on my 2002. I just saw the picture of the Mks and it looks like it is missing the keypad on the door. I remember when Nasser had the keypad removed from the Town Car one year and their buyers went scrounging for used models to get the keypad. I believe Lincoln made the same mistake when they first introduced the LS. Somethings never change; I guess I will go buy a CTS - or maybe a Buick!
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's there. It's built into the B pillar and painted black so it's almost invisible.
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    jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    Yep, Peter mentioned the mks today all right. You left off the fact that his basic message was a DOWN arrow and what followed your quote was the following, which I agree with:

    "The problem? As the Lincoln renaissance starts to gather steam, their idiotic nomenclature regimen is even more glaringly inappropriate. "MKS" has no connection with Lincoln's history, and frankly Ford doesn't have the ad budget to seed the moniker as a "prestige" nameplate in the luxury segment anyway. We're still waiting for Ford to make the right call on this one, since it looks like they're destined to blow it by dumping the "Flex" name on the American scene with their upcoming Ford station wagon/crossover. It shouldn't be that hard to see the light. Wait a minute, what are we saying? After all, we are talking about Ford here, with all of its attendant fiefdoms and bureaucratic silos well and truly present and accounted for. They've mishandled Lincoln for the last decade - why should we expect things to change now? "
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    joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I understand this is on the D3 platform - FWD with AWD option. Is the AWD option front-wheel or rear-wheel biased?

    This should be built alongside with the Ford Taurus and Taurus X, Mercury Sable in the Chicago plant, right?
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    cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    I guess I left it off because I tend not to judge cars by their names, but rather on their substance.

    Of course, I whole heartedly agree with Peter that the current naming convention is horrible. But that doesn't really affect if the MKS is a good product or not; it's more of a marketing issue.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    This will be a heavily modified D3 platform (modifications required to handle the torque of the twin force engine. Apparently the early prototypes were literally torn apart due to the torque.

    The AWD will supposedly be RWD biased but no confirmation on that yet. Maybe the press release due next week will tell us.

    And I think it will be built in Oakville (Ontario) not Chicago. Chicago will get the new Flex next year and most likely the Lincoln version of the Flex.
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    fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    We will go to the LA Auto Show on Sunday November 18, and arrive between Noon and 12:30. Is anybody else planning to be there then? If so, it would be fun to meet and greet. The closest restaurants I can think of are the Pantry at 9th and figueroa, and the IHOP at 8th and Flower. There are over-priced burgers and such in the convention center. Any other ideas? Perhaps just meet at the MKS at 1:30? I'll also want to see the G8 and everything else, so will probably stay until closing time.
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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    There are discussions about member meet-ups at Auto Shows for previous seasons. Here's the 2007 one:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f10f47c/

    Maybe you can ping "Steve" or "Claires" to see if they want to start up a new one... or you can do it yourself!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Lots of techno-goodies including adaptive HID headlights, keyless go, etc.

    Autoblog Article With Pictures

    The only slight disappointment is the 270 HP 3.7L base engine. Apparently the base chassis can't handle more power right now. That will be fixed when the Twin Force turbocharged engine debuts late next year so I expect we'll see around 300 hp from the 3.7L at that time.
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    270 hp base engine a slight disappointment? Uh....yes, I would say a disappointment.....and maybe more than slight. I can already hear what the enthusiast press is going to say when they test it. It is a shame that this car is out powered by a Northstar equipped Buick Lucerne as well as assorted Avalons, ES350s, and many other FWD upscale sedans. I was really hoping DI would be available at launch with around 300 HP.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Other than bragging rights in internet forums - what difference does it really make?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Well, I guess the difference is that Lincoln isn't going to recover by offering products nearly as good or about as good as some of the competition. After all, that approach hasn't done a thing for Buick. The Enclave is actually better than most of its competition, so it is the only hot selling Buick. But it isn't enough by itself to turn their sales slump around. I thought the extended delay in bringing the MKS to market was due to modifying the chassis to handle more power. Now it turns out it was only to make modifications to the grill. That doesn't say much for Ford's ability to bring anything to market any more quickly than they have in recent years.
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    what difference does it really make? The difference between "adequate" and "excellent." I don't think it is significant that a V6 Avalon is more powerful than a V6 Taurus. However, I think it is significant when Ford's flagship marque (with the demise of Jag) is not a step above. With tuning for low end torque, the 270 HP MKS with FWD should feel pretty decent. If it is quicker than my current LS, I can live with it. I certainly will not accept a step backward in performance.

    I just built one on Lincoln's site - came up to around $42,000. Options add up fast. Pricing is about what I expected, though.
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    rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    They've given us a lot of words and photos of the MKS, but has anyone seen any specs? (Other than engine power and torque.)
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I see the grinch is in rare form - must be the approaching holidays.

    What about all the other features? Do you honestly think *most* buyers would care more about 30 hp than keyless go, rain sensing wipers, adaptive HID lights, etc.?

    If it had 30 less hp and none of these other features and a cheap interior I might agree with you. I'm also willing to bet they tuned the engine for more power at lower RPM and better fuel economy - guess we'll have to wait and see on that one.
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    http://www.lincoln.com/reachhigher/configurator/mks/default.asp

    Options and prices are available on Lincoln's site and I think other specs (except the engine) are probably the same as the MKS concept that was shown in Detroit in 2006.
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    jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    So, the mks is introduced. This is what we've been waiting for? A 270hp, fwd appliance on the old volvo chassis but infused with Lincoln heritage? Horbury et al went back thru Lincolns' past to find out what made it special and they come up with an underpowered V6 FWD Volvo with a Pontiac grille? Ahem ...

    IMHO, it's a fairly nice looking car, outside. The interior not so much. It seems to me that most shoppers who sit in the mks and the cts will be giving the cts a big thumbs up. And the mks starts at $38,000? Isn't that a little rich for this class of vehicles? The cts starts almost $4000 cheaper. And it's RWD. And we only have to wait til "next summer" to buy the thing? Sept 20, that's still summer, eh? And then maybe a year later, it will finally get an engine? Isnt this deja-vu all over again - remember the Zephyr?

    But I was especially impressed to read of Ford's caring attitude towards minorities. Having hired "Common" and "Juanes" to market the car to the African American and Hispanic buyers who "want and deserve luxury in their lives". Isnt that special? So when u buy your mks, remember that it's overpriced partly so Ford can pay megabucks to 2 "artists" nobody's ever heard of. Reminds me of when ole what's-his-name, the former parts guy,Daryl Hazel, who ran Lincoln for a few years in early 2000s. First thing he does when he takes over is hire Magic johnson to represent Lincoln. Big photo-op done to present magic with a $1,000,000 check from Lincoln. Anyone EVER see Magic Johnson representing Lincoln?

    Well, good luck, Lincoln. You're REALLY gonna need it now.
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    bruce_leebruce_lee Member Posts: 23
    I agree with jeyhoe on this. The CTS does seem like a better aternative.

    "I'm also willing to bet they tuned the engine for more power at lower RPM and better fuel economy - guess we'll have to wait and see on that one."

    Whishful thinking.....typical of ford. :blush:

    Just the Facts!
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If you must have a RWD manual - maybe. But the MKS is way bigger than the CTS and has tons of features that the CTS doesn't have. Not to mention they're still ugly, although the new one is much better than the old one.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    To each his own. To my eye, the CTS has its own very recognizable look. The MKS, while attractive in a way, is an amalgam of styling cliches out there now. And now Lincoln will have yet another look among its zoo of Town Car, Navigator, MKX, MKZ...not a one looks like it is related to another. It will be years before Lincoln converts the line to this new look, if in fact they do.

    Lincoln is in trouble. Cadillac is not. Lincoln will sell a fair number of S's, but it is not an exportable car (too big at 203+"). How difficult would it have been to keep the length around the magic five meters for a premium export and still offer all the same room and features? It is just not good planning.

    I don't know. I would love to be a cheerleader for FoMoCo again, but they gotta do better what with Hyundai, Kia, and now GM grabbing their market share. And don't forget the Chinese. Ten more years of this, and it could be all over for Ford, as some other giant buys it for the Mustang and F150 names.
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    jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    I'm driving to Pasadena today for business. If I have time, I may visit the LA auto show over the weekend. Maybe I'll change my mind once I see the mks. But I doubt it.

    And the CTS is far from ugly. It's a much better looking car inside and out than the mks and it's cheaper and it's RWD and u can get a manual and it oozes luxury, performance and style. I used to be a big Ford fan, that's fading fast. I dont think it will take 10 years for Ford to succumb. With the "new" stuff they're bringing out (starting to see the commercials for the new Focus - geez, how to screw up a free lunch on that one, plus they dropped two body styles) and their non-competitive engines both performance AND mileage are wors than the other guys (that's gotta take some work) AND they are totally clueless as to what their brands are spposed to be, ask anyone. I dont even think they want to sell me a car anymore. Lincolns are for minorities, Jags are for "alternative lifestyle" folks, Mercurys are for women. That leaves me with Ford I guess.

    The only car they seem to understand is the Mustang. And with a flavor of the month Mustang, they continue to prove that. But with Camaro and Challenger due on the scene, that show will soon be in reruns.

    Oh well, at least a rapper will make a million or two.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It must be tough to go through life with such unrealistically high expectations.

    Considering the platform limitations, I think this is about the best that could be done until the MKR shows up on the RWD Huntsman platform.

    Why are you guys totally ignoring all the new features? Hidden door keypad, front parking sensors, rear camera, keyless entry and start, adaptive HID lights, rain sensing wipers, manumatic shifting, etc. etc.

    And that wonderful Cadillac engine only has 273 lb/ft of torque compared to 265 in the MKS, so don't count on the performance being that much worse.

    Why not compare it to a Mercedes E350 and see how it stacks up.
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    tncarmantncarman Member Posts: 82
    I think the MKS will be an all around decent car. But the stlyling doesn't rub me right. i mean its nice and all, but for seem reason, to me, the back end looks like a Suzuki Forenza/Chevrolet Lacetti. Did anyone else notice that?
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    bruce_leebruce_lee Member Posts: 23
    "I think the MKS will be an all around decent car."

    I agree 100%. I kind of like the exterior styling, but that's what it seems to be: a decent car. In this class, it doesn't pay to be 'decent'. :(

    I kind of agree that 30 hp doesn't seem like much, but believe you me, it is.

    I hope ford is on schedule with the new V6. :P
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    fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    The MKS has excellent features, and from the photos, appears to also look better, and different, than many competing vehicles. Of course, looking at pictures and seeing the real car are two completely different things. However, the photos and the features list make me even more anxious to arrive at the LA Auto Show at lunch time on Sunday.

    Does anyone know the weight of the MKS? That will make a big difference in how it performs (accelerates, stops, and handles).

    I noticed that the Lincoln site indicates that theengine output numbers are preliminary, indicating that the final figures for the 3.7 may be higher than the numbers now being published. I suspect the final figures will be more like 280 HP & 270 F-Lbs.

    I also wonder if theMKS will require premium? I'll bet it will not, and if so, represents a significant savings compared to most compedting vehicles.
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    theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    2009 Lincoln MKS reveal at the LA Auto Show.

    Lincoln MKS

    I've read allot of people have been complaining that the MKS is only going to have 270-277 HP at launch. The rumor that I'm hearing is that a year after it's launch they are going to put the Twin Force 415HP engine in the MKS. Also, if you listen to the presentation. They say the MKS is going to start under $38.000 and it's bigger on the inside than the Lexus GS and Caddy STS

    :)
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It won't be 415 hp - that was a special concept engine. But it should put out 350-380 hp in the MKS. And it's not a rumor - it's been known for quite some time.
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    http://media.ford.com/products/model.cfm?vehicle_id=1678

    The weight is listed at 4127 for FWD and 4276 for AWD. Interestingly, it says 87 octane fuel but then it says "premium recommended." I think you may be correct that final HP and Torque figures may be better than initial numbers. I am not sure we know the whole story on the base engine yet.
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    This is old news but for those who keep bringing up the CTS the October issue of Motor Trend has this:

    GM insiders know that they have a minor NVH problem with the new 3.6 liter direct injection V6 fitted to the new CTS and STS. Frustratingly, they know it's a problem that can't be fixed; it's a design fault.......

    So, do we want things fast or do we want things right? Another note: As Akirby has pointed out, anyone who compares the CTS with the MKS will have to notice that the CTS is a compact, interior wise, compared with the Lincoln. Apples and Oranges, folks.

    One last thing: The specs say the MKS will have power tilt and telescope wheel. I was afraid it would have a lever similar to a farm implement like the MKZ. Thankfully, that will not be the case.
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    cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    I don't think people quite know what to make of the MKS. By that, I mean I don't think it's known what car this is going to compete with.

    First off, I'm pretty sure it's not the CTS. The MKS is over TEN inches longer than a CTS. As far as I can tell this is not a sports car, or a sport luxury car. It is just supposed to be a luxury car. I would say it's competitors are the Cadillac DTS, Mercedes E-series (even though this car is the size of an S series) and maybe the Lexus GS.

    This car will have to be judged on the interior and the ride. Not the acceleration or the cornering. Pictures can be deceiving, but I like the interior. The leather covered dash is nicer than what you would find in most of the competing cars, but that's just speculation. I think the only way to judge this car would be to sit in it. That's how luxury will be judged.
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    bruce_leebruce_lee Member Posts: 23
    I agree, the CTS is on a different category....This MKS will make a nice car with the new V6...

    Not to beat a dead horse....but do you know what this means?

    "GM insiders know that they have a minor NVH problem with the new 3.6 liter direct injection V6 fitted to the new CTS and STS. Frustratingly, they know it's a problem that can't be fixed; it's a design fault....... "

    From what I've read, it just means that there is some noise that they couldn't get rid off. If you hear it when you are driving your CTS, then you must be one of those 'unique' customers..... :mad:
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    pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    It must be tough to go through life with such unrealistically high expectations.

    Considering the platform limitations, I think this is about the best that could be done until the MKR shows up on the RWD Huntsman platform.

    Why are you guys totally ignoring all the new features? Hidden door keypad, front parking sensors, rear camera, keyless entry and start, adaptive HID lights, rain sensing wipers, manumatic shifting, etc. etc.

    And that wonderful Cadillac engine only has 273 lb/ft of torque compared to 265 in the MKS, so don't count on the performance being that much worse.

    Why not compare it to a Mercedes E350 and see how it stacks up.

    I agree lets give the car a chance. BMW puts the 528i on the market starting at $46,500 with a 230 hp six and 200 lb feet of torque. Knowing the Germans I'm sure a 528i with a few options comes in over 50 grand before you can say boo. Now look, I fully understand that the BMW is 500 lbs lighter has the cache and the decades worth of engineering by it's German masters to handle like race cars. I get all that. Is it really that out of of wack for this MKS which looks very nice inside and out to come in in the mid 40's loaded with all the latest goodies? I don't think so.
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    theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    I've done some digging and found a good source of huge full screen pics of the 2009 MKS. Allot of people have said that the backend of the car looks like it came off a Maeseriti. Other's say it came off the back of a KIA Rio 5 door. Also, while I was reading the reaction to the MKS from the New York Times online paper. They said that allot of people there was quoted as using the word "Love" when referring to the styling of the MKS. Also, here's the Designer video of the MKS and some pics.

    image

    image

    image

    image

    My Favorite view
    image

    image

    Some Interior pics.

    image

    image

    The invisible key pad

    image

    image

    Designer Video

    All in all I think the MKS looks Amazing :shades:
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    kfeitenkfeiten Member Posts: 4
    I would agree that the new MKS looks good on paper(or should I say on the computer). I like the design both inside and out. I especially like the way they have hidden the funky but functional keypad; the keyless start button is another nice feature. Ford is the only car company that has figured out that we shouldn't need to carry a key or fob. But I will have to wait to give it amazing accolades - that will only come when I experience a nice QUIET RIDE in a car that HANDLES well. I am really hoping they got that right because I can't wait to own this car!!!
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    brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    I have a feeling that the car will be extremely quiet and have a great ride. We just picked up our new 2008 Taurus yesterday to replace my wife's 2001 Taurus. I have driven a number of competitors and the new Taurus ride and quiet is awesome. Imagine how much better the MKS will be with more sound insulation and revised suspension tuning!

    If the base engine suits me, I look forward to parking a red MKS in the garage next to the Taurus. Everything about this car is working for me with the exception of the base powerplant - and I wonder there might be more to that story than we have seen.
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    theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    Buddy I said the MKS LOOKS amazing. referring to the appearance of the car. It's impossible to say the MKS is amazing and the car was just released and nobody has even driven it yet.
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    kfeitenkfeiten Member Posts: 4
    Point taken
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