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Comments
The interior is pretty good, though not as integrated looking as on the concept. I do hope they plan to put a door over those gaping cupholders in an otherwise smooth console. The extra wood strip on the dash just makes it more "busy" looking, but maybe people want it.
The divided grill that is supposed to be on the production car is not readily evident in the spy shots. I am hoping it is there, complete with body color separation. I'd also love it if they have modified the concept's rear door opening so that it is not a copy of every mid-level Japanese and German design. The rear-leaning rear door window is not at all evocative of Lincoln-anything.
Anyway, the thing appears to be shaping up better. Now, just get it to market! This Ford thing of taking 3 or 4 years from concept to production is just too pokey.
That C pillar design still looks like the concept. You can sort of see the outline behind the cover. No, it is not Lincoln-like. Actually looks like Lexus GS or even Nissan Altima. I was sort of hoping for more of an MKR look to it.
One other thing I would like, but not a deal-breaker is power tilt/telescope wheel linked to the memory seats and mirrors. Of course, it needs proper hood struts and not a cheap rod to prop open the hood.
Based on what I know now, the MKS will likely be my long-awaited LS replacement.
As for the MKS, I have liked that car since I saw it at the NY Auto Show. I'd buy one. People say it is close to a Lexus GS in style, but what they don't think about is that the GS is selling well and the LS is not. That is fact.The MKS isn't like the GS to me. It is just a very well styled car. More power to them. I think when Ford sells Jag and LR, it will only mean good things for Lincoln.
Not too difficult since they stopped making the LS about a year ago.
I'm guessing by the context he's talking about the LS series Lexus.
See - give us names, not designations!
Only a former LS owner would make that mistake.
Gregg, I agree but I think it is better to take a bit longer rather than rush something to market that is not ready. For example, the Zephyr was introduced before it was really ready for prime time. Reviews were so-so and opinions were set. The MKZ is better but I think if the Zephyr launch had never happened, and they had used that time and effort to further upgrade the MKZ, perhaps it would be more compelling.
The MKS seems to have taken a looooong time. However, I am thinking that it might be worth the wait. The structural and noise isolation upgrades to the 2008 Taurus will carry over to the MKS and the 3.7 engine will be ready. Lincoln can't afford to have a half-hearted effort with this one.
I like the way Ford is starting to introduce vehicles in the spring/early summer instead of fall. This allows the vehicle to benefit more from the auto show hype in January. I think they should start introducing all of their new vehicles in April.
I think the MKS has gone through a couple of internal revisions and also some infrastructure/parts availability issues that has pushed back the debut.
I have it on good authority that the difference in the interior of the MKS from the spy shots to the real production model will be significant and much more than normal. I'm speculating this might mean a totally different gauge cluster since the one in the spy shots seems to be the same as the Taurus.
Hey, have you seen any activity from Heyjewel or ANT, lately?
If true, the MKS will be behind the competition right out of the gate. A new "flagship" model doesn't have to be best in class at every single thing but it should be competitive. With the Cadillac STS starting with a 302 HP Direct Injection V6 and then offering the Northstar and finally the V series performance model, the MKS comes up woefully short.
As late as this car is in coming to market, I wish they would delay it until the 3.7 DI and the Twinforce are ready. I am so tired of Ford introducing a new model with obvious shortcomings and then "fixing" it later - like the Zephyr and 500/Montego.
Hopefully, the "Lincoln exclusive" 3.7 will have better numbers than those that have been reported and my rants will have been unnecessary.
BTW, Ford made Aston into a boutique star before unloading it. Aston is positioned well to survive now.
Ford, however, is still shaky-legged. I don't blame Aston or Jag. I blame overpaid know-it-all doofuses calling the shots. Like buying Land Rover when BMW could see it would never be a significant money maker. What if all that purchase money had gone into Lincoln (and into speeding up Jag development)?
It will become to Ford what Lexus is to Toyota once Jag and to a lesser extent Land Rover are sold.
Very optimistic statements, Driver, and I hope you are right. It will take major product changes, savvy marketing, money, management commitment, and a very determined team to rise Lincoln to its former glory. It will also take time....if it can be done at all.
In my circles, (middle age, mid-management types) Lincoln is generally viewed as the car that picks you up at the airport when you travel. Or, it is viewed as something your father might drive. The MKZ, if anyone knows what it is at all, is seen as a gussied up Fusion and advertised at Camry prices. There are so many crossovers around, it kind of seems like the MKX gets lost in the shuffle.
With Jag all but gone, I would really like to see a true flagship Lincoln - a TC replacement that would be viewed as a real prestige vehicle. I don't think the MKZ does any good for Lincoln's image at all. I would prefer the MKS be the entry level Lincoln.
Here in Minneapolis, most Lincoln-Mercury dealers are gone - they have merged in with Ford stores. That doesn't help the image, either, IMO.
Perhaps, Lincoln has a stronger reputation in other parts of the country. In any case, I think Lincoln has a pretty tough road ahead. As a fan and owner of the brand, I do appreciate your optimism, though.
Recently I was riding in GM cab and it was spacious, smooth and comfortable – it fit six people in comfortable way. I felt some respect to Mercury. But why Ford needs Lincoln if it already has Mercury? At least Mercury does not pretend to be a luxury and makes very reliable and comfortable cars at affordable price.
Good question. Ford doesn't need Lincoln as Lincoln is now. It does need what Lincoln can be, especially if they divest themselves of LR and Jag.
And I agree with you. I'm not impressed by the "z" - not because it isn't good, and isn't nice, it just isn't "what a luxury car should be" - the tagline when Lincoln was on top of its game. It's too small, and it's too mazda 6. I like the Mazda 6, but it's not what I want a Lincoln to be.
The Town Car is what a Lincoln should be, but the one we have now, though the interior has been substantially upgraded since ARM took over, is way too long in the product cycle to interest anybody outside the Livery. It need a major freshen, until the R can come out, and then the R needs to be something spectacular, with all the Tech and all the pizazz an American Luxury car should have. My friend just got an MKX. I went with her to purchase it. I will admit, it's a nice design from a function standpoint, and it's even kind of luxurious. It has some flaws - the guage cluster is ridiculous, and it's missing some important luxury features IMO, but it's a nice deluxe EDGE. Which is the whole problem. It's an EDGE, and it looks like an EDGE. The EDGE is ugly enough, but in Lincoln form, it's repulsive to me. No way this should be a Lincoln. Put up against the SRX, which I also think is ugly in its own right, it will get laughed at.
It should have had a unique look, and a Lincoln look. It just does not look like a Lincoln. Cadillac seems to be able to make the CTS look like a Cadillac. How hard would it be for Lincoln to make a tidy-sized sedan look like a Lincoln?
I think the MKS will look more like something that is not just a dressed up Ford.
The Z has some good features such as the sound system and friendly NAV system but it lacks some of the basics. The prop-rod hood, the D-L shifter, the lack of rear seat AC vents, the manual tilt/telescope wheel, the hard door panels all scream "cost-cutter." I see the Z as more in the V6 Camry or Accord class than in the ES350 league.
I am expecting a much better effort with the MKS.
What is that "Lincoln look"? Right now, it's all over the place, just like it was in the 1950s. They've made a good start defining Lincoln elements with the MKR concept. I just hope they find some external styling direction and keep with it.
The MKR is another good concept to start building a "Lincoln look" around. The MKS is not a Lincoln look car...too generic. Still, it is supposed to have a few MKR cues by the time it comes out. In any event, will look nothing like the Taurus on which it is based, and that's a good thing.
Both MKZ and MKS should have longer wheelbases though. And anyway, why does Ford think a FWD car should take a shorter wheelbase than RWD? Just lengthen the wheelbase and move the engine back a bit for better balance. Then they won't have such long front overhangs and 65% of the weight over the front wheels!
Getting decent balance and a low hood line is a challenge in FWD applications.
How the MKS is powered will have a big influence on how it is viewed by the enthusiast press and potential buyers. Will it be compared to a Buick Lucerne? Or will the Lexus GS/Cadillac STS/Acura RL be more direct competitors? I sure hope they don't target the Buick!
You mean like the Chrysler "Cab Forward" design? I loved how Chrysler, and Iacocca specifically, always sold the worst feature of their cars as a great new technology. FWD, Cab Forward, etc....
That depends to me,.. well at least now it does. I think they should target the Enclave with the up coming Lincoln version of the Ford Flex. The Enclave may be the best luxury SUV on the market, period. That thing almost looks like it could be a Bentley and not a Buick. Lincoln could do well by following in that light for both its cars and SUVs.
If you look at Ford, I think they are moving in the right direction with Lincoln now. That Twinforce will be very competitive with anything on the market. American cars used to be known for power and luxury. Even if Ford keeps Jag, it seems that they are pushing it up market. I hope that both Jag and LR are sold. That way the next Navigator can be designed and packaged to challenge a Range Rover. Now that is a fight I'd love to see.
I have a serious suggestion to everyone drooling over the MKS - save yourself a lot of waiting and go buy a CTS-V or a Volvo S-80 NOW. You'll be better off.
Finally, a Ford employee used to frequent this board. I'm pretty sure he must've taken a package to get out cause he hasnt been heard from since the way-forward purges. But in any case, he was privy to Lincoln's plans and he told us all in no uncertain terms that Ford's idea of a competitor for Lincoln BEGINS AND ENDS WITH BUICK. You wanna experience the MKS NOW? GO drive a LaCrosse. Read it and weep.
"Every X or Z I see is driven by someone with markedly fewer years on average left on the planet than say John McCain."
Not where I am. Most drivers I see are closer to my age, and I hope I have a few more years left on this planet than McCain (although I could always be run over by a Hummer).
"...and that's only if they price it like an Acura TL! Which they wont - it'll be more like a CTS-V..."
Where did you find your crystal ball? I want one, too.
"And have you seen the interior of the 2008 CTS? Close to perfection. From what I've seen of the inside of the production MKS (FORGET you ever saw the concept) they copied a 90's Dodge Intrpid."
Thanks for your opinion. I agree the CTS looks nice, but I'll reserve judgement on both the CTS and MKS until I can actually touch.
"You cant get bluetooth in a Lincoln but you can in a Nissan Altima..."
According to another insider poster here, it's coming in 2008 (agree it should be here now).
"But in any case, he was privy to Lincoln's plans and he told us all in no uncertain terms that Ford's idea of a competitor for Lincoln BEGINS AND ENDS WITH BUICK."
Operative word "was". Things change. Will they? I hope so.
Wishing Lincoln and all well. But wishing aint gonna get it done. Again I say the S80 might be a better place for your money. After all, it is already a generation ahead of the S.
I agree about the S80. Kicked the tires of one a while back at the local dealer, and it seems like a very well conceived car. I especially like the dash design. I still have a soft spot for Volvos.
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/13249/spied-2009-lincoln-mks.html
Look here:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plugins/iimage-gallery.php?idpost=4638&idg=1&idi=16
and THEN tell me the MKS interior looks upscale.
1.) Listened to the opinions of the automotive press
2.) Solicited opinions from the owners of the competition's products i.e. Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, and Mercedes
3.) Maybe bought a few of the competitors cars and had their engineers drive them around
With rear wheel drive and near 50/50 weight balance, the Lincoln LS was the closest that Ford will EVER come to making something that competes with the Germans. That car was so close. When I saw the photos of the MKS, I truly hoped that Ford was stepping it up a notch the way GM did by refining the second generation CTS. I was wrong. Here comes another V6 powered front wheel drive turd that will depreciate 50% in the first year and nobody in their target demographic will buy. Sure, Ford will sell a few and claim everything is going as planned when they start offering $199 a month lease deals and employee pricing to everyone. These will most likely go to people who were considering Jettas not the 5-series.
My grandfather was a 42 year Ford employee who took stock options every year and got in on the IPO in 1956. Despite being eligible for employee pricing, and my family holding a significant amount of Ford stock, the last six cars I've purchased were not Ford products or even American.
If you're going to rant you should do better research so you're at least ranting about the right things.
2.) Solicited opinions from the owners of the competition's products i.e. Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, and Mercedes
3.) Maybe bought a few of the competitors cars and had their engineers drive them around
You should know that Ford in fact does all these things. They may not do it enough, or they may not listen to the feedback, but the processes are in place. ARM has driven every car Ford makes and evaluated them. It has already changed a hundred decisions at Ford - many of them reversals of very recently made decisions, thank goodness.
What has hurt Ford in recent years, IMO, is a distinct lack of competence or vision on the part of Bill Ford. He went into office making Ford the "Green" car company buy simply saying they were, and that all of their SUVs were going to average 30mpg within 5 years. Of course, the engineers were not consulted on this, or Bill would have been told it couldn't be done without putting 4 cylinders with 5 speed manuals in Expeditions and Excursions. Boy - those would sell alright.
Engineering wants to build a great car, and they know how to do it. Design wants to build a beautiful car, and they know how to design it. Marketing wants to advertise a sexy car constantly. But Accounting, wants to cut costs on every car line by 20%, so as to increase margin on each car, to cover overhead in a top-heavy company and union wages. The accountants win at Ford. Insufficient risk taking or vision will cause that. Bold moves? I wish they'd dump that slogan for something that shows a theme that defines the company.
But, all of these comparisons to CTS-V or other ultra high-performance sports sedans really don't make sense. The MKS is a full-size luxury car - not a 5 series, S80, CTS, etc. The TwinForce will offer high performance, of course, but the best indication is that it is not intended to be an ultra performance set-up. The goal is strong V8 performance with better fuel economy than a larger displacement V8. The MKS platform, its size, transverse engine, and available tranmissions do not lend themselves to ultra high performance like a V series Cadillac or M series BMW.
Lincoln may eventually have a RWD sports sedan but the MKS is not it. This is not a rant from me - I think they absolutely need a full-size luxury car since they obviously do not have one now. Part of luxury is strong performance and based on what we are hearing, a 300+ base engine with the TwinForce to come a bit later makes sense.
I am not drooling over anything but this car is definately on my short list - which is getting much shorter. I drove an S80 turbo 6 yesterday and was only mildly impressed. Even though the MKS is on the previous platform, it is a much larger car with more room and likely will have much different suspension tuning, option packages, etc. I am quite confident that it will be a better value based on what I am looking for.
The next few months of rumors, speculation, and facts will be quite interesting.
Lincoln may eventually have a RWD sports sedan but the MKS is not it.
Yeah, how ironic, they HAD one up until this year, a very very good one, in the LS - but never marketed the car, kept the styling dull, and decontented it instead of enhancing and improving it. Had it been larger, I would have had one, but had it been larger, it wouldn't have driven like it did. So now, they need to develop a RWD sports car....
Wow. Wonder what Mulally thinks about this conundrum?
Yes....the LS saga is a sad story....But I am not sure the typical sport sedan buyer will purchase a car with the "Lincoln" badge on it no matter how good it is. In my opinion, Lincoln needs to get its house in order at the top of the line before they enter any specialty markets. The pitiful neglect, decline, and ultimate fall of the Town Car has hurt the image of Lincoln. What is a Lincoln, anyway? That needs to be defined.
I don't know where Mulally stands on Lincoln's future. Since he said the Lexus LS series was the best car in the world, you would think he would want to aim toward that target - although at a bit lower price point. Building the best $50,000 American luxury car would be a nice goal.
Wherever he stands on it, he stands better than Bill Ford did. ARM saved the Town Car from extinction as the last minute. He must have some interest in a Luxury car since he's dumping all the euro brands....
Spy Photo #1
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Enjoy
What you think ?????????
What do you guys think ???
Fords Big Comeback in 2008
Ford's 2008 lineup differs from the 2007 exactly how?
500 gone, Taurus returns. Escape got a redesign. A few other vehicles got new options. That's pretty much it, aint it?
She mentions the newly designed Mercury Mariner. Um, maybe she meant RE-designed I dunno. She mentions that the Edge is available as a hybrid. Boy, that's news to me. - Anyone?
It would have been criminal if the MKS had a cheap rod to prop open the hood like the MKZ.