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Comments
-Rocky
Merury has NO reason to exist. For a great article expressing this opinion, go here: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/ford-death-watch-40-mercury-rip/
One of the more interesting points made in there is that every time Mercury had a product well-differentiated from Ford and Lincoln, the mother company ignored it to death. This is EXACTLY what they did to the LS.
Past is prologue with Ford. Mercury, unfortunately, probalbly wont see 2010. As a LONG time fan, I will miss it, but in the condition it's in now, let's just put it out of it's misery. Anyone for a Lincon-Mazda dealership?
Wrong. I was talking about the present and Fields is talking about the future. Lincoln needs the MKS and MKT (Lincoln version of the Flex) before it will have enough volume to dump Mercury. Right now, today, they still need the Mercury vehicles.
They're also working to combine the Ford and Lincoln/Mercury dealers and if that happens the Mercury won't be needed for volume and can either be ditched or (my preference) given unique, niche vehicles like a roadster, convertibles, Cougar, etc.
As for thetruthaboutcars - they're idiots.
"Jim Farley, Ford’s new head of marketing, says MKS customers want dynamic steering, feel, and braking but are not necessarily performance seekers."
Uhh......NO, it is not. Farley needs to take his Toyota hat off. This sounds like an excuse for introducing the MKS with just a 270 HP V6. Or, maybe there is more to the story. Maybe someone asked him, "Will the MKS compete with high performance sports sedans like the Cadillac CTS-V?" In that case, his answer might be OK.
The Ecoboost version can't get here soon enough.
I've looked closely at the MKS on the Lincoln site and I do really like the exterior. I've noticed the site doesn't give one much of a look at the inside. Also the exterior color choices are quite nice.
I can honestly say that, if my financial situation allows it in the near future, I would consider replacing my LS with a twin turbo AWD version of this car. Course that would be subject to the handling and ride etc of the 'Performace S" Maybe the MKS-GT? And how the interior looks and feels close up. Also though it would depend big time on the price and I've got a feeling the S-GT will cost over $50,000 thus priced out of my ballpark.
Back to Mercury for a second - I learned yesterday that the Prius alone outsold ALL Mercury vehicles combined last year.
The base price of the AWD is $39,105. I could be all wrong about the Ecoboost pricing but I find it hard to believe that they would put a $10,000 premium on it. The whole point was to provide power of a V8 with FE of a V6 and that it be affordable. This is supposed to be techology that trickles down to many Ford models over the next few years.
Jeyhoe, I think you and I should be the first two on this board to own MKSs!! I can tell that you are warming up to the idea!
Well, you'll have to settle for just you, unless someone has a briefcase full of $$$s for me, I wont be buying any $40K or $50K cars for quite a while. Only way? If I could double the mpg of the LS and keep the ride etc. Same for my Navigator. Otherwise I'd be making car payments AND $4.00 gallon gas. Cant do it.
Besides, I really dont think I'd get one without the more powerful engine. As it is, it's got 5 more hp than your 500, but it's gotta be eating that power up in added weight so I wonder if it'll even keep up with the Ford?
As for price of ecoboost, I'll bet akirby knows but he aint tellin apparently. We could guess at it since Ford says it'll "pay for itself in 2.5 years where hybrid takes 12 years" If we say hybrids increase mileage by appx %, using Escape as the example ... could be done. I need another cup of Joe before I go further
One last thing - I would certainly cross-shop the AWD MKS-GT against the CTS (304hp w/6-speed manual - $33,000 starting) and wife would force Infiniti into the drive-off so on price alone, I think the S would be at a severe disadvantage.
I might wait for the Ecoboost. I would much prefer it unless they bundle it with an overly harsh suspension or other things that detract from it's "luxury." The price will play a role, too.
As for the base V6, yes, the power to weight ratio and torque to weight ratio favors the Taurus over the MKS. Maybe the power curves are such that the 3.7 will have quite a bit more power at lower RPM than the 3.5. If that is the case, the MKS might be quicker on the low end than a Taurus. The Taurus 3.5 is quite a bit quicker than my early LS, though. The extra gear is probably as helpful as the extra HP in that comparison.
akirby - I dunno, you do seem to know more than the average bear about what's happening inside Ford. But $750 for the ecoBoost engine in the mks? Surely you jest?
If I can get my manager to agree to $45,000 plus tax, title, and license, will you buy the car today?
Regards,
OW
-Rocky
Seriously, as I said earlier, if they can offer a well-equipped MKS with the Ecoboost for under 50 big ones, they have nothing to apologize for. It has taken forever but it could help put Lincoln back on the radar screen.
Well, I am building my body bigger so it wont fit in a compact, but perhaps not in the way you were alluding to!
-Rocky
I read it at the doctors office, which was appropriate because the review just eviscerated the MKS. According to the review, everything is wrong with this car. Every design element inside and outside is wrong.
I'm not going to lie, it was sort of hard to take the review seriously. When a critique is so one sided and mean, you can't help but think the reviewer has an ax to grind, like an MKS ran over his dog a week before he wrote the piece.
Anyway, check it out if anyone wants to see everything that Automobile thinks is wrong with the MKS.
Personally I think the MKS is decent. Not great but good. Certainly good enough to compete and make money which is what Lincoln needs right now.
Also - Mulally was back on Autoline Detroit and answered all the tough questions this time. Lincoln is definitely going back to RWD, Mercury was basically a No Comment. He was asked about partnering and he said absolutely, and they're going to start with Ford (meaning Australia, Europe, South America, etc.). He said all the right things and I'm reasonably sure he meant them. The only thing holding Ford back now is poor decisions of the past (lack of engine and platform development).
I read it at the doctors office, which was appropriate because the review just eviscerated the MKS. According to the review, everything is wrong with this car. Every design element inside and outside is wrong.
I know everybody on this forum is about sick of me because I always make the most negative assumptions about the media and usually I'm right
Come on now, we've been through this already. Allot of people on this forum should already know that the MKS is going to be the sorriest POS made. Angus Mckenzie of Motortrend already has called the MKS the "Wrong car" and he's written 2 articles about "What's wrong with Lincoln" Basically over insulting Lincoln and not giving Lincoln any credit for anything good they've done recently. Also, he was quoted as saying that "Ford is a truck company trying to build cars" that should tell you what he thinks of Lincoln and the MKS.
Car and Driver has already getting their insults ready by stating "how can we take Lincoln seriously because the MKS is FWD" and let's not even speculate what Edmunds is going to call it. Considering the MKS is going after the BMW 7 series and the Mercedes-Benz S Class. I've said it before, stop caring about what the critics think. It should be very obvious what they think, Nothing !!!!!!!!! no i'm sorry Absolutely Nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they are not in a huge hurry to change there opinion anytime soon. Everybody who is a Lincoln fan should be ready for a Piss#$g contest at Lincoln's expense since Hyundai is making the RWD Hyundai Genesis. It's going to be pretty ugly. :sick:
I look at the MKS as more of a statement about Lincoln's commitment:
New luxury features never offered by Lincoln and some that even the competition don't have
No shared sheetmetal or powertrains with Ford platform siblings
Improved interiors, especially materials
High performance option within 12 months with more power than any previous Lincoln
Given that the D3 was the only viable platform available when they started, I think it's a good effort. I also think it will pull in some import buyers. If Mulally had been hired 5 years ago we'd have a RWD MKS. But he wasn't and we don't so deal with it.
As long as the MKS makes money to keep Lincoln afloat for the next 2 years - it's a success.
And cut the crap about Audi. Because Audi has been so long tied to FWD, they have never achieved the sales or distinction of BMW or Mercedes, like it or not. And as a result, Audi is now going for broke. The R8 (mid-engine, rear drive) is a break with the past. RWD models are planned. But more importantly, they are beginning to redesign their AWD/FWD models to set the engine further back for better balance, moving away from that nose-heavy, engine-in-front-of-the-drivewheels imbalance they have had for so many years. That set-up is efficient and a great thing for economy cars, but cars of Audi's (and the MKS's) distinction call for more.
Audi has had a reliability problem as well, but more importantly, they usually come out wanting in handling comparisons because of that extreme front bias. Front drive can be designed in a much more balanced way, and Audi is now moving in that direction (with the new A4, the A5, the newest TT, and the last A6 design). The engine is now further back and there is more weight toward the rear. They will get there, because they are very determined. Lincoln must have that drive to be the best as well.
Forgive me if I have missed some posts...what HP option is supposed to be available in the next year???
The most important part of a sports car is under the hood. The most important part of the MKS is in the cabin. I see the MKS customer as someone who has no illusions that their car will ever be lapping the Nurburgring.
Now I haven't sat in an MKS, and I assume now one else in this forum has either, so I'm not willing to say if Lincoln made the MKS right, but to compare it's engine, or it's drive layout to luxury sports cars seems to miss the point.
I don't see the BMW 5 series for example as a "luxury sports car", though there are of course hotted up 5 models, and I don't see the Mercedes E Class as anything other than a luxury car as well. Yes, M models are available, which can run with just about anything. It's like the CTS and the CTS-V. I don't think the CTS itself is a sports sedan, but it can be so equipped.
Lincolns must compete on luxury and comfort as you say. The MKS may do well there. But it won't rate as well even with the base competing models of some other manufacturers, because it is not built to those standards (admittedly higher than most Lincoln buyers want anyway).
Lincoln is going to follow up the MKS with better engineered cars with higher standards of performance in all categories of measurement. There are lots of people who will buy the best (or one of the best) even if they never intend to use those capabilities beyond what their old Buick could do. It is why some people buy Subzero and Wolf even when they are not gourmet home cooks.
I agree with almost all critique in Automobile regarding exterior design. I saw that something was wrong with MKS design but Automobile nailed it. That crude new grill looks like add on. Audi at least is well-designed elegant car. MKS by contrast looks like designers were limited by decisions made by higher management. E.g. higher management required to replace grill with new one – and they did it regardless how organic replacement looks. Is not as bad as Acura RL bad still is no Audi.
I remember going to the dealer and seeing people tuning in their LS for the Zephyr and MKZ. To me it was proof that Ford was finally getting the point and producing the items their customer base was asking for. When the other car makers came out with the newest innovations, I believe the execs at Ford put on their conservative hats (which they have plenty of) and waited to see the justification proof of the product. In the meantime, research is being made on the technology and most of all the cost. Getting that cost as low as possible was a key element towards implementation. How else could they attached many of the same features that are in Lexus and other vehicles for $3000-$6000 less?
The price for die-hard Ford and Lincoln customers was to wait. I believe the waiting is about to be over and Ford is trying to get in the mix. They will have to if they are going to survive.
I am hopeful about the MKS, though. I find it disturbing that the base engine makes less power than a 2000 Continental but with the better transmission, it should handily out accelerate its defunct cousin. As long as it has taken to get to market, I also find it annoying that the base model will be less powerful than an ES350 or V8 Buick Lucerne. No, it does not have to be a muscle car but part of "luxury" and "image" is strong performance, IMO. Too bad the Ecoboost will not be available at launch.
And I would like to say that I am a fan of the A3. I think it's a great car at good price, and considered it the last time I bought a car. I think the A3 and the MKZ are good examples of how a platform can be taken up market, but I don't think either can be considered true luxury. I'll have to wait and see on the interior of the MKS, but it has a chance to be more of a luxury car than either the A3 or the MKZ.
If you want an A3 like car from Lincoln, they could take a Focus, re-do the sheet metal and interior, adjust the suspension, and add some sound deadening measures. I don't think anyone wants to see that from Lincoln though. I know I don't.
Also had an '88 LSC.
I wouldn't even look at anything from Lincoln anymore.
Regards,
OW
Exterior - much better in person than in pics. The grill is stunning to my eye and the side view is great. The rear end and tail lights are the weakest in my view. The roof line is flatter that a Taurus so it doesn't look as tall and bubble roofed as its platform mate. The beltline seems higher giving the roof somewhat of a chopped appearance. Overall, I think the look is pretty classy and not as similar to other makes as the pics suggest.
Interior - The Tuxedo Black MKS was on a turning table but since I was the first one in the door, I asked them to stop it and let me take a seat in the car. The first thing I noticed was the short seat bottom. I thought with 12 way adjustments, I could lengthen the seat but I could not. Apparently 12 way means the usual 8 way plus 4 way lumbar. The short seat bottom was a turn-off. I hope I missed some adjustment.
The center stack was another turn-off. It was flat black plastic and not very sturdy on this pre-production model. The door panels, likewise, were very common. A Sable, sitting maybe 15 yards away, had a much more upscale interior, IMO. They have an optional wood appearance package for the door panels that I have not seen but it is needed. Overall, the interior was not nearly as upscale as I would have expected. The leather covered dash is nice but that is about all I could praise.
According to the Lincoln rep on hand at the show, MKSs should be in dealer showrooms by June 1. I sure hope the interior of the production model strikes me more favorably than the show car. By contrast, the Jag XF is brilliant inside and out. The Audi S5 coupe is a knock-out, too. The MKR and Interceptor are both very striking.
I would love to hear comments from others who have seen the MKS in person.
No matter how Ford says that they have changed and become more adaptable to the needs of it's customers, I seem to alway see the conservatism that Ford just can not shake off. Sometimes I believe it hurts Ford in not only in styling, but timing as well.
What seemed to me that should have been here 2-4 years ago (right after the LS) will be presented in a time of the highest gas prices in history. With that up against the MKS, the dull back end and cheap looking center console will not help people to say WOW and say I want that vehicle right off the bat.
I will say that as dull as the back end may look, I have followed one in the evening during the manufacturing tests (I believe) in the Ford area and I can say it is distinctive. It will make you speed up to see what it is.
If I had to choose between the two, I would say make the improvements in the center console. I believe the one in the MKZ looks better and to spruce it up and make the buttons a little bigger should make it more attractive. The exterior styling I like and should make a hit in that area.
I am not sure of Ford's status on the eco boost engine, but due to the economic situation, they may want to either bring that in full production this year or hold off on the MKS for 6 months from the original launch date to make sure they get things right.
All and all this is a bold new step for Ford. One that they are not use to making. So it is understandable of some of the unique moves that have been made and challenges they face.
I do agree the center couns
They may also change the typeface of all controls. I know it's "unique", but somehow it does not sound nice, or luxury, to me.
I would also like to see a better designed steering wheel. Not as big, please.
Otherwise, I am awaiting to see how it drives, handles, brakes... Looking forward...
If anyone of you undersatnd what I am (trying to) describing, please explain it in plain, simple English... Thanks in advanced. (If you look closely on the gauges, maybe you'll get it).