What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

ateixeira · April 2009

Here you go, like the bottom side of a snow board:

stever · April 2009

It has some Elan, but doesn't Flow. Inverse it and there's your Answer (a little boarding pun there - I ride an Elan Inverse and an Answer, both with Flow bindings :P ).

The Multipla looked better in person than in the pics, to me anyway.

guss · April 2009

Don't you mean consoul?

I don't think I could live with that red. Are they color matched to the body? A grey or black would be fine. I have yet to see one in person , but I am still liking it.

ateixeira · April 2009

The one I saw was not red so I'm sure there are choices.

Found a pic, the exterior of this car was red, so I think it is color matched, but I also saw one where the red stuff was a silver/gray color.

Pic:

fintail · April 2009

I remember some UK magazine compared the first version of that Multipla to something that crawled out of a bog. It was a very daring and practical design, I agree, it's a shame it was normalized. Seeing as it came out about a decade ago now, it was pretty futuristic. The original Multipla was certainly a weirdo...the new one should be too.

Now it is pretty ordinary from the front:

ateixeira · April 2009

You can get some smaller, odd looking mini-minivans from Europe, also, like the Renault Megane Scenic and the Citroen Xsara Picaso.

They're all weird in their own way.

stever · April 2009

The Picaso didn't grab me but the Scenic's do. There's nothing like a good size minivan with 14" wheels.

Here's another we don't get:

Volkswagen Will Build Up! Minicar in Slovakia

nippononly · April 2009

at one point they said they WOULD be bringing the Up! to America? :-(

I would like to see that sold here. At this rate they will chicken out before they bring over the Polo.

ateixeira · April 2009

That stubby front must make it real space efficient.

stever · April 2009

And just think, instead of the Routan, we could've had the concept Microbus go into production. It looked like the Up's bigger brother.

fezo · April 2009

I loved that concept Microbus. They could have gotten me with that.

texases · April 2009

VW baffled me when they didn't go with the Microbus. A ready-made market, and a car that's actually practical, instead of just cute (New Beetle). But no, Routan was the better idea :confuse: :sick: :lemon:

ateixeira · April 2009

Me three. That would actually have drawn me in for a test drive. The concept was soooo cool, too.

nippononly · April 2009

the Polo is still on schedule, and wouldn't it be nice if we got a TDI model too.

Ford has already said no to diesel Fiestas, even though they have the perfect diesel available in Europe.

lilengineerboy · April 2009

Ford has already said no to diesel Fiestas, even though they have the perfect diesel available in Europe.

And if California fell into the ocean with the enviroterrorists, we might get real diesels in America.

nippononly · April 2009

So "enviroterrorists", whoever they are, all live in the ocean?! :confuse:

lilengineerboy · April 2009

So "enviroterrorists", whoever they are, all live in the ocean?!

I was kind of hoping so, yes, at the bottom

Okay okay, I'm kidding...kind of. I think their controlling, condescending hearts are in the right place, just misguided effort.

igozoomzoom · April 2009

The Kia Soul Sport is ONLY available with the Black and RED interior (including the blood red dashboard)! The Soul ! (Exclaim) has tan/black houndstooth in place of the red on the seats and the dash is trimmed in a beige. The Soul + (Plus?) has Black cloth seats with the word "soul" imprinted in the fabric (very 'busy' looking). The base model is the only one with an understated, tasteful all-black interior.

ateixeira · April 2009

Well, understated in an economy car often just ends up looking cheap. I can't blame them for doing something different.

thegraduate · April 2009

I see your point.

The little icons we use here look like that Accent. Maybe this one :surprise: .

snakeweasel · April 2009

The little icons we use here look like that Accent.

I think the more look like Sally Carrera from "Cars"

thegraduate · April 2009

I'll give you that, although that's the ONLY time you'll ever get away with comparing that Accent Sedan to a Carrera.

snakeweasel · April 2009

It's the little icons that look like Sally Carrera, not the Accent.

stever · April 2009

Maybe we'll get something like the Up! after all.

"Volkswagen of America has confirmed for Inside Line that its New Small Family, a line of cheap and cheerful city cars, will be coming to the U.S.

"We're planning to offer the vehicle in the U.S.," said Volkswagen of America spokesman Steve Keyes in an e-mail to Inside Line. "However, which model[s] and name is not decided. You may recall that the concept was called Up!"

Volkswagen New Small Family Bound for U.S. Market (Inside Line)

ateixeira · April 2009

That makes sense to me, because the Polo would just be priced way too close to the current Rabbit. Maybe a grand less, if that.

stever · April 2009

With those side view mirrors, VW should call it the Shrek.

ateixeira · April 2009

Good one.

I think it might be easier to market than the Polo, though. Less overlap with the Rabbit. It would steal fewer sales and bring a different set of buyers to the brand.

nippononly · April 2009

Rabbit is going back to being called Golf, and heading upmarket though, isn't it? I would think there would be room for all three in the market - these microcars like Up! are popular, but only within a fairly narrow niche. They are mostly city cars. Polo could go head to head with something like Fit, with Golf priced higher if it is truly heading upmarket again as I have read.

qbrozen · April 2009

bah. The UP has no appeal to me now that they nixed the rear-engine idea.

ateixeira · April 2009

I guess so.

They definitely have to kill the $14,990 pricing on those bare-bones Rabbits, though.

Drop the base model entirely and have those start at $18k, then offer the Polo for $15k.

I'm still not convinced they'll do significantly more volume than the current Rabbit does now, though.

Bring that cool little super-turbo 1.4l engine and offer a model with that for $18k or so. Then they could earn the bang-for-the-buck crown. That could create a halo for other Polo models.

I still wonder if they can produce them cheaply enough. Maybe assemble them in Mexico.

kyfdx · April 2009

I bet the Polo never happens for the US...

nippononly · April 2009

Well there's no doubt in my mind that all VWs under $25K including Polo will be built in Mexico (or points south) from now on. If they ever manage to get the new plant built in the U.S., I am sure it will build Passats and one of the crossovers.

I hope the Polo DOES make it here.

igozoomzoom · April 2009

The argument that the Polo and Golf are too close in price (and size) doesn't seem logical to me. There were quite a few folks who said the same thing about the Honda Fit being to similar to the Civic. Yet the Fit has been a runaway hit and Civic sales have remained very healthy, too.

A lot of people tend to look at the Jetta as being more upscale than the Golf/Rabbit. In reality, they're the same basic car. The Jetta is offered in more trim levels with more features than the Rabbit/Golf, but the Polo would allow the Golf to move upmarket. The Rabbit 3-door was a loss-leader for VW, priced $2000 lower than the 5-door.

There's room (and demand) for a Golf comparable to the Jetta SE and/or SEL. The Mazda3 5-door is proof that there's a market for premium compacts well in to the $24k+ range. A $15k Polo and $18k-up Golf would co-exist quite well, IMO.

stever · April 2009

Tata Nano So Popular It Could Take Years for Customers To Get Cars (Straightline)

iluvmysephia1 · April 2009

nothin' wrong with that Tata Nano subcompact. Or is it a kei-car? Sub-subcompact? Tiny little car being maufactured by an Indian carmaker and selling for around $4,995, give or take a whisker or a hair.

plekto · April 2009

Actually, it's about $2500 USD. Think basic motorcycle cheap.

nippononly · April 2009

Yes, but the Nano Europa that will be smog- and safety-compliant (and have a larger engine) for Europe and the U.S. is projected to cost around $4995. As such, I think they will sell a million of them here as long as they have 3/36 and 5/60 warranties like all the other automakers.

And iluv: I think this one is as big as what we consider to be subcompact.

fintail · April 2009

The globalized transportation pod nightmares are made of.

It would be better with a low-speed low-range electric system.

ateixeira · April 2009

Allow me to clarify my earlier point - the current Polo is made in Europe (I think?), and what I said was VW could not sell it here any cheaper than the $15995 they want for the Rabbit now.

Moving production to Mexico and moving the Golf upscale would change that scenario. I think both of those things would have to happen first.

ateixeira · April 2009

At the price it competes with 2 wheeled scooters, not EVs.

I doubt it would succeed here, but there will be more demand than supply when you account for 2 billions plus people in India and China alone - half the world's population basically.

Who cares about a shrinking and way-too-competitive US market?

nippononly · April 2009

I believe that Tata will bring the Nano Europa to the U.S. as well, to maximize the profits they can draw from investing in the upgrades for the European market. And I know it's a super-basic car, but you know what? I think there will always be a market for a $5000 brand new car with a standard-length new-car warranty. In fact, I think it could be a hit. It will be the Yugo of the 2010s! Only it should have much better reliability than that piece of junk did. Tata is a pretty experienced carmaker after all.

Now, will Tata care if it makes it in the U.S.? As you say, probably not, they have bigger fish to fry. In fact, we may see it withdrawn in short order if sales don't take off right away.

As for the VW comments, both of your prerogatives for Polo sales in the U.S. have already been announced by VW: that it will move the Golf up some for the next round, and that the Polo will be sourced from Mexico.

I don't think they are going to offer a 2-door stripper trim of the Golf any more. It's interesting that they will cut that trim, as I think sales were pretty good, but I suppose people shopping that price range will consider a nicely equipped Polo instead in future. If the 2-door Golf started at a price $500 below that of the 4-door, I think both would sell plenty well, and allow some room for Polo to come in at a price $1000-3000 lower.

ateixeira · April 2009

If Tata is smart they will expand very carefully. Especially to the US - a very unforgiving market.

One false start and it could spoil even their future hopes of success here.

benjaminh · May 2009

This car is goofy looking, but I like it. A lot of functionality for an affordable price. Starts at $14.5k, and it seems like a lot of car for the money. Anyone else like the cube? Seems like some love it and others hate it.

explorerx4 · May 2009

i'm thinking it could be a big hit. i think i want one.
the question is, what do i have to give up to get one.

nortsr1 · May 2009

You have to give up a lot of SAFETY for one thing.

alltorque · May 2009

"You have to give up a lot of SAFETY for one thing."

Let's not go down the "Small cars are unsafe" route again. The Fiesta scores 4* on EuroNCAP testing, (5* = max), that's the same as the MINI, Honda Jazz (Fit) and Honda CR-V........and others. The current version of the Chrysler Grand Voyager isn't rated but, IIRC, the previous one scored very low - 2* or 3* - and was notorious for folding in all the wrong places during impact. Being "big" does not always equate to being "safe". Good structural design is the key.

lilengineerboy · May 2009

I think it is important to have across the board availability of passive and active safety features. The Fit and Scions have ABS standard, and I believe stability control is coming in too. Having 27 inflatable balloons coming out of every crevice in the vehicle should a collision occur is also important.
Ford has been not as stellar in this arena in the past.

nortsr1 · May 2009

Are you telling me the Tata" IS A SAFE CAR IN IT'S PRESENT FORM" to be driven "here in the U.S.A?????? We were talking about the TATA not the Ford Fiesta.

ateixeira · May 2009

They are definitely interesting cars, but remember that the basic Versa they are based on starts at $9995 or something like that. I'm sure you get more content, but it's a pretty basic platform.

alltorque · May 2009

Abject apologies................for ranting on about the Fiesta and missing the point of your comment being the TATA. Not sure that I class the TATA as particularly inherently safe in anything other than high density city traffic or low-speed urban environments. I certainly wouldn't want to put my faith in one in full-blown high-density/high-speed environments; particularly when there are more proven vehicles available. Maybe it will "prove" out O.K. but I'll reserve judgement until some data becomes available.

So, in answer to your question : no, I'm not.

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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