Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
'Well, I guess I'm one of the "most socially inept enthusiasts," because I still love my Mustang II...and yes, it is the "despicable 1975 Mustang II Ghia notchback coupe with the half-vinyl roof!" Sure, it never had any power...but, it's still the most stylish car in the parking lot whenever I go to the supermarket!"
My first new car was a '77 Mustang Cobra II with a 302-V8.. For '77, it was very quick.. But.. .probably the worst piece of crap ever produced.. By the time I sold it in 1982, with still under 50K, it was totally worn out..
On another note, my girlfriend had one of the Mustang II Ghias with the landau roof.. White over red.. She sure was cute..
The girl.. not the car.. :surprise:
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Back in '97 I had a choice for a company car . It was between a Taurus, Intrepid and a Contour. I went with the Malibu because it was totally new and seemed closest to being a Accord beater than anything Detroit ever made.
Well, it was boring. It did not do anything great, but it did not do anything badly either. The v-6 was adequate, for 5 hp more than the 4 though it made a huge difference .
It did like to eat lower control arms. I think I had them replaced 4 times in 60k miles.
But as far as worst cars ever, no it does not belong on that list.
When I bought my 2000 Intrepid in November 1999, I looked at a few Malibus they had on the lot (it was a Chevy/Dodge/Isuzu dealer). They also had a 2000 Dodge Stratus that I looked at, and a couple 2000 Impalas. I liked the Stratus. It was about the same price as the Intrepid, but better equipped (sunroof, alloy wheels, a few extra things inside, etc). But I preferred the Intrepid's size, plus it had an engine that was both more powerful (200 hp versus around 165) and more economical (20/29 versus something like 19/27). I also didn't like the fact that the Stratus used a Mitsubishi 2.5 V-6, although in retrospect, I hear that turned out to be a pretty decent engine. I remember the Malibu just seemed cheap in comparison to either of those two, although the ones on the lot were a couple thousand $ less. The only Impalas were loaded LS models stickering around $25-26K, and they just didn't seem worth it to me. Plus I didn't like the Impala's cramped back seat (I don't care what the published specs say, it's CRAMPED!), high beltline, or interior design. I know a guy who drives a Dodge shouldn't rag on GM's interiors, but I swear the Intrepid, and Stratus, had much nicer interiors than the Malibu or Impala! Funny how these days it's just the opposite. GM has really gotten their act together with interior quality, while Mopar started slipping.
I think for 1997 standards the car was a giant leap forward, especially compared to cars like the Chevy Lumina and the Corsica. And by 1997 standards, it probably stacked up well to the foreign competition. The Camry, which was new for 1997, seemed cheapened compared to the 1992-96 model. I think the 1994-97 Accord was a bit nicer than the Malibu...but it's not like it blew it out of the water or anything.
But suddenly, it was 1998 and a new, improved Accord came out. Then we got a new Camry and Altima for 2002 and yet another Accord for 2003.
GM has a habit of doing that...coming out with a car that seems as good as what the competition is offering, maybe even better in some respects, but then suddenly the competition redesigns and improves, and GM is left with a has-been. It happened with the first Saturn S-series. Happened with the 1997 Malibu. The 2008 Malibu seems like a nice change, but I hope it's not just a repeat of this cycle.
I remember a Malibu rental from that time too...the "hot" light was on the whole time, the radio didn't work, and the materials seemed pretty cheesy.
What else was substantially new that could of beat the Malibu? The Chrysler triplets Cirrus,Stratus,Breeze were not better,and Fords Contour/Mystique would probably be tied with the Malibu.
Would the C-5 Corvette have been out by then ? If so, then mistakes were made.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
The Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Century/Regal were new for 1997. I have more respect for those cars than I do the 1997 Malibu. But other than that and the C5 Corvette, I don't think there was really anything new on the domestic front.
This begs the question, then, of whether the Cobalt SS will one day be a collectible. It's fast, handles well, and relatively few of them will have been made before it goes out of production.
But the Cobalt SS does not possess a number of important traits that any "strong collectible" should have---a) loved when new by many people b) prestigious or iconic image; c) interesting or attractive styling. The only attribute it DOES have is "performance or interesting engineering".
If GM and Chrysler become American Leyland (government owned), they'll probably kill off anything remotely exciting, including the Corvette.
This is probably what is going to happen to Viper---which sells only about 1/3 as many cars as Corvette.
If you even run over a fist-sized rock at 185 mph, you are dead meat.
My only gripe about Corvettes is they do not seem to hold up cosmetically. After 4-5 years, you can see the wear and tear unless you are a very careful type.
You're right. After all the C3 vette stayed unchanged for 15 years, and the C4 for 14 years. So if this one debuted in 2005, and money is tight, we might not see any change until 2020. By then there will be either no Corvette, or some oddball hybrid version. :sick:
By the way Oregonboy, my wife and I drove down the Oregon coast a few weeks ago and you guys have some of th most beautiful scenic highways. :shades:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Another thing about the Vette is that it probably would do very poorly in a head-on.
I was disappointed with that article, latest C&D loved it, and (surprisingly) Top Gear drove it, a CTS-V, and a Challenger SRT-8, and loved them all. They usually dump on our crude Yank iron.
It's pretty impressive... even without thinking of the 600+ hp ... :surprise:
But... And, I think I have this right... there was a CTS-V.. $63K... 556 HP!!
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
And world wide economic crisis...
I think that we have reached some kind of pinnacle. Generations from now they will look back in wonder...
Grampa! Grampa!... tell us a story about the the time of the auto-cars !!!! :surprise: :P :sick:
How does GM let these things out the door? They MUST have fixed it. Any reviews on the new one?
Slightly quirky (4 door sports car? More so than a Maxima, I should think), with the unique engine.
My sister owned a Gen I RX-7 many years ago, and I was lucky enough to drive it on occasion. There really is nothing like a Wankel engine - if only they offered a bit more torque.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the prices of used RX-8's after a year or two.
Mazda has stated that they are committed to continue development of the rotary engine, but as of now there are no plans to bring anything to market.
Why is this? Damned if I know. Buyers decide what is loved and unloved, and what to pay for various old cars. How do they decide these things? A mix of their opinion and media opinion I guess. We often only want something after everyone else expresses an interest.
And they, the buyers, seem to have voted on old Japanese cars---occasionally they are merciful to them, but usually they have no interest in them as collectibles---with those few exceptions we can all name on the fingers of one hand.
And even those exceptions are not big buck cars, but one (Toyota 2000GT).
I don't see the Genesis or RX8 as anything more than an old beat up RX-7 in 20 years....scrap iron or a toy for a teenager with no money but in love with cars.
Generally, I'll agree with you, shifty, but given the low production numbers of the RX-8 over the past few years, I gotta believe that their value will eventually go up.
Is the last gen RX-7 (twin turbo) worth more than a run of the mill 20 year old car?
If nothing else, all the hooning and modding that takes place may make them more rare, if only through attrition (crashes and blown engines).
On a recent episode of Top Gear (UK), they talked about a website that allows you to see how many of a particular make and model (and trim line) of any car are officially registered in the UK. One example they cited was the Vauxhall Chevette (our Chevy Chevette from the 70's & 80's). Apparently, there is only 1 with an automatic in the whole of England.
Too bad there isn't a nationwide database here in the US that gives us the same information.
"Hey, I've got the only '76 AMC Pacer with the Levi package in white! Woot woot!"
:P
It seems to meet the basic criteria for collectiblity--it had performance, it had good looks, it was rare, and it was *dominant* in its class. These are all things that make up (although don't guarantee) collectible status. Another criterion would be prestige, which the RX-7 didn't have.
If your car had the 3Ps----prestige, performance and pretty---that's a long way toward collectibility. Add rarity and dominance and you'd pretty much have a lock on being a "classic" someday.
So the RX-7 TT, in my opinion, has 4 out of 5---hence a "collectible" and yet very affordable.
Try out that formula and have fun, with other cars you can think of:
performance
prestige
rarity
great looks
dominance in its class
The Genesis fails on most counts, even a 90s Corvette struggles. A Delorean flops on most. But a first generation Viper? Well, it meets at least 3 criteria.
So I think the more criteria the car meets, the more valuable it gets.
If you come up with a car that meets all 5 but is cheap to buy, then that represents, to me, an opportunity for appreciation in the future.
Just for grins, I searched for every 1992 and newer RX-7 for sale in the US. 78 active on AutoTrader, with an average asking price of $16,500.
For the RX-8, there are over 1500 for sale, with an average asking price of (gasp!) $16,700.
So, I'll concede the point about the RX-7 being more collectible than the RX-8.
Now, let's talk about the Nissan GT-R .... collectible or no?
:P
Re: GT-R, maybe a minor collectible or special interest car like older M and AMG cars - but I have to wonder how those electronics will age.
My sister owned a Gen I RX-7. An '84 GS, IIRC, that she bought in 1986. She begged and pleaded with my parents to co-sign on the loan with her. I remember her payments being $262/mo and she worked her tail off each month to earn that money.
She kept it until she got pregnant with her first son (1997) and sold it for $2200. She cried as the new owner drove off.
I truly believe she would have kept that car if she could.
You can get a nice earlier RX-7 for not much more than a few grand today.
They needed something with a backseat. IIRC, they bought a '95 or '96 Infiniti G20. My BIL had an Acura Integra.
Now, with 3 kids (14, 10 and 7), he has a 330i and she drives a Navigator.
So performance yes, prestige no, rarity no, dominance --not clearly defined, styling not particularly.
So I'd say "doubtful" but with that much HP someone is always going to want one. I'd vote "minor collectible", never a classic. Like an NSX for instance...it may sit forever in the $20K class.
Yeah, my sister has bounced between a Tahoe, an Odyssey and the Navigator.
But, all the boys are involved in team sports (baseball, football) and so they will need to cart around teammates and equipment to away games.
I know my sister recently tried to sell the Navigator. Not sure what she was planning what to replace it with, however.